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#1002122 - 21/07/2011 16:42 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Cheers]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
Originally Posted By: Cheers

1 - The ALP support workers a lot more than the Lib/Nats do.
Most of us are workers.

2 - The unions have looked after workers wages,safety & conditions for the last 110 years+.
Even the workers that were not members.


laugh

Oh the unions, the working man's friend... yeah right.

One miner's harrowing story proves unions are still up their dirty tricks

And where was the nurses union when the labor government bungled the payroll system so badly that it still isn't fixed now?!

And that is only the tip of the iceberg.

If anyone still thinks that the unions are in it for the worker's best interests then they must believe in fairy tales! The unions have done diddly squat in representing their members when it comes to this carbon tax. Someone needs to wake them up and tell them that if their members can no longer find work, then they won't have any minions to bully, harass and intimidate!

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#1002126 - 21/07/2011 16:57 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Andy Double U]
Cheers Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 26/05/2007
Posts: 1110
Loc: sevenhills nsw
Originally Posted By: Andy Double U
Originally Posted By: Cheers

1 - The ALP support workers a lot more than the Lib/Nats do.
Most of us are workers.

2 - The unions have looked after workers wages,safety & conditions for the last 110 years+.
Even the workers that were not members.


laugh

Oh the unions, the working man's friend... yeah right.

One miner's harrowing story proves unions are still up their dirty tricks

And where was the nurses union when the labor government bungled the payroll system so badly that it still isn't fixed now?!

And that is only the tip of the iceberg.

If anyone still thinks that the unions are in it for the worker's best interests then they must believe in fairy tales! The unions have done diddly squat in representing their members when it comes to this carbon tax. Someone needs to wake them up and tell them that if their members can no longer find work, then they won't have any minions to bully, harass and intimidate!

Wel I have had very little problems with them & I have been in 4 of them over the years.
I know the late great Bernie Banton didn't think so.

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#1002248 - 22/07/2011 12:05 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Cheers]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Sea-level rises are slowing, tidal gauge records show

linky

Quote:

Based on century-long tide gauge records at Fremantle, Western Australia (from 1897 to present), Auckland Harbour in New Zealand (1903 to present), Fort Denison in Sydney Harbour (1914 to present) and Pilot Station at Newcastle (1925 to present), the analysis finds there was a "consistent trend of weak deceleration" from 1940 to 2000.

Mr Watson's analysis of the four longest continuous Australian and New Zealand records is consistent with the findings of US researchers Robert Dean and James Houston, who analysed monthly averaged records for 57 tide gauges, covering periods of 60 to 156 years.

The US research concluded there was "no evidence to support positive acceleration over the 20th century as suggested by the IPCC, global climate change models and some researchers".
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1002305 - 22/07/2011 17:53 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
Summarises plenty of repeatedly made points very nicely.


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#1002330 - 22/07/2011 21:13 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Andy Double U]
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
Freedom of the press has been in the news a lot lately in the News Ltd scandal, so perhaps News Ltd could take heart from this.

A display of freedom to silence opposition, masquerading as the advancement of 'science'.

Communism? No such ideology ever existed, did it?

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#1002346 - 22/07/2011 22:58 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Keith]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
GISS [ NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies] and CRU [ Climate research Unit at the Uni of East Anglia in the UK ] are quoted repeatedly as the sources of global temperatures.

So this article from the "Forbes" online mag is well worth a read to get an idea on the accuracy, the veracity, the shenanigans and the probable corruption behind those numbers

NASA’s Inconvenient Ruse: The Goddard Institute For Space Studies

This quote on CRU's data records from Climate Gate's "Harry-read -me- files"
Quote:
And just how good is that CRU data? One ClimateGate log posted by database programmer Ian “Harry” Harris doesn’t provide much public confidence, reporting: “[The] hopeless state of their [CRU] database. No uniform data integrity. It’s just a catalogue of issues that continues to grow as they’re found…There are hundreds if not thousands of pairs of dummy stations…and duplicates…Aarrggghh! There truly is no end in sight. This project is such a MESS. No wonder I needed therapy!

CRU Director Phil Jones, in an interview with BBC, admitted to big problems, confessing that “…surface temperature data are in such disarray they probably cannot be verified or replicated.”

Quote:
Dr. Ruedy of GISS confessed in an email that “[the United States Historical Climate Network] data are not routinely kept up-to-date, and in another that NASA had inflated its temperature data since 2000 on a questionable basis. “NASA’s assumption that the adjustments made the older data consistent with future data…may not have been correct”, he said. “Indeed, in 490 of the 1,057 stations the USHCN data was up to 1 C degree colder than the corresponding GHCN data, in 77 stations the data was the same, and in the remaining 490 stations the USHCN data was warmer than the GHCN data.”

[ Hansen ; his former boss John S. Theon, retired chief of NASA’s Climate Processes Research Program, ]
Quote:
Dr. Theon also testified that: “My own belief concerning anthropogenic [man-made] climate change is that models do not realistically simulate the climate system because there are many very important sub-grid scale processes that the models either replicate poorly or completely omit”. He observed: “Furthermore, some scientists have manipulated the observed data to justify their model results. In doing so, they neither explain what they have modeled in the observations, nor explain how they did it…this is contrary to the way science should be done.” He then went on to say “Thus, there is no rational justification for using climate model forecasts to determine public policy”.


It is entirely on the basis of this [ very deliberately corrupted ] data from GISS and CRU that the world has spent billions of dollars on the so called global warming.
It is on the basis of this [ corrupted ] data and computations from GISS and CRU that Gillard and the greens are going to impose an unwanted and totally useless and totally ineffective but severe economy damaging and industry destroying "carbon" CO2 tax on Australia.
It is entirely on the basis of this [ corrupted ] data from GISS and CRU that has led to very unfortunate, unnecessary and unneeded, severe society damaging conflicts in most western countries.
It is entirely on the basis of this [ corrupted ] data from GISS and CRU that some radical and increasingly totalitarian green and radical left wing groups are attempting to gain power in the western democracies and are advocating unelected global government to rule the world. Supposedly to prevent a climate catastrophe in which they claim to believe in but which their prolific use of energy for personal [ global ] travel and life style and personal luxuries demonstrates their own personal non belief in the message they are preaching to the uneducated proles far beneath them.

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#1002436 - 23/07/2011 17:36 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
Canberra's Weather Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 11/11/2005
Posts: 1141
Loc: Canberra
Check out this utter load of tripe. The Canberra Times is running another GLOOM AND DOOM article which even has a "suburb-by-suburb" map of where this permanent heatwave will impact the most.



Edited by Canberra's Weather (23/07/2011 17:37)
Edit Reason: Dotty URL
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#1002443 - 23/07/2011 18:16 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Canberra's Weather]
strontium dog Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2007
Posts: 269
Loc: Bungendore
CW, I saw that on the front page as well and simply put the paper back on the rack. It was the biggest load of rubbish I have seen in a long time. If enough people refuse to buy crap they will get the message eventually or fold.

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#1002463 - 23/07/2011 21:35 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: strontium dog]
crikey Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/02/2011
Posts: 2763
Loc: Tweed Heads
Keith.
Yeah..Its already happening. Listened to cathy Bedford on ABC radio and they gave time one angry skeptic.About 10 seconds .
Cathy and her warmist co-host just said. Well l think we can all agree that the Science is in and there is a consensus. Full stop.
Lets move on from this.. Lets talk about how to deal with it. We are past debating whether it is happening!
I believe Keith
Skeptics will be given NO TIME. Not some time..on the ABC
Regarding the Canberra times article.. I guess we will see a lot more of this as all those Millions go into convincing the public.
ROM. Thanks for your excellent research on this topic. Its a real eye opener.Regards
_________________________
http://weathercycles.wordpress.com/

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#1002466 - 23/07/2011 22:13 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: crikey]
crikey Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/02/2011
Posts: 2763
Loc: Tweed Heads
CanberraWeeather: RE: Aecom report for the ACT. Impact of climate change
Here is a link to there OECD report for Australia and new zealand
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/39155167

AECOM scientists co-author OECD climate-change report
Two Australian scientists from AECOM have co-authored an OECD report into 'climate proofing' infrastructure through environmental impact assessments.
Australia, Canada and the Netherlands are leading the world in considering climate change impacts in the EIA process, according to the report.
The report entitled Incorporating Climate Change Impacts and Adaptation in Environmental Impact Assessments has attracted international recognition, including interest from the World Bank.

“It’s pretty exciting,” said Senior Scientist Guillaume Prudent-Richard.

“The World Bank is looking at it and could use it for some of their climate sensitive projects,” he said. “It can assist organisations avoid significant losses and extend the useful life of their assets.”
Principal Scientist Marcus Sainsbury said they are the only countries that have documented projects where climate change impacts have been considered, despite the EIA process being well consolidated in many countries.
link
http://www.aecom.com/vgn-ext-templating/...D&vgnextfmt=xml
_________________________
http://weathercycles.wordpress.com/

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#1002483 - 23/07/2011 23:27 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: crikey]
crikey Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/02/2011
Posts: 2763
Loc: Tweed Heads
It would seem that Aecom has been doing these assessments for quite some time for local governments.
Here is one done for Wagait in NT in 2010
Page 1
1.1
Local Government Association of the Northern Territory
29 November 2010
Climate Change Risk
Assessment and Adaptation
Planning
Wagait Shire Council

Link to HTML version of report
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MriHKVvU9IYJ:www.lgant.asn.au/download/climate_change_reports/AECOM%2520Report_Wagait.pdf+cache:IU10VJE_LWgJ:reroc.com.au/system/files/Weather_and_Climate_Discussion_Paper_Master_Part1.pdf+aecom+report+climate+change+canberra&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com.au
---------------------
Aecom describe the expected climate change parameters and the likely effects on all aspects of the shire
up to 2070
They give some advice on how to deal with the effects of climate change within that shire
---------------------
And of course look for the disclaimer....
Part of which says
AECOM has exercised reasonable care when completing this report. ... modelling future climate change. AECOM cannot guarantee the accuracy of the climate observations and ...
_________________________
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#1002666 - 25/07/2011 10:49 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Simmosturf]
pearly1 Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 14/11/2007
Posts: 11
Loc: Qld, Brisbane
Get ready for the next big bombshell in the man-made warming debate. The world’s most sophisticated particle study laboratory—CERN in Geneva—will soon announce that more cosmic rays do, indeed, create more clouds in earth’s atmosphere. More cosmic rays mean a cooler planet. Thus, the solar source of the earth’s long, moderate 1,500-year climate cycle will finally be explained.

Cosmic rays and solar winds are interesting phenomena—but they are vastly more relevant when an undocumented theory is threatening to quadruple society’s energy costs. The IPCC wants $10 gasoline, and “soaring” electric bills to reduce earth’s temperatures by an amount too tiny to measure with most thermometers.

In 2007, when Fred Singer and I published Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1,500 Years, we weren’t terribly concerned with cosmic rays. We knew the natural, moderate warming/cooling cycle was real, from the evidence in ice cores, seabed sediments, fossil pollen and cave stalagmites. The cycle was the big factor that belied the man-made warming hysteria of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

When Willi Dansgaard and Hans Oeschger discovered the 1,500 year cycle in the Greenland ice cores in 1984, they knew immediately that it was solar-powered. They’d seen exactly the same cycle in the carbon 14 molecules in trees, and in the beryllium 10 molecules in ice cores. Both sets of molecules are formed when cosmic rays strike our atmosphere. The cycle had produced a whole series of dramatic, abrupt Medieval-Warming-to-Little-Ice-Age climate changes.

The IPCC, for its part, announced that the sun could not be the forcing factor in any major climate change because the solar irradiation was too small. IPCC did not, however, add up the other solar variations that could amplify the solar irradiation. Nor had the IPCC programmed its famed computer models with the knowledge of the Medieval Warming (950–1200 AD), the Roman Warming (200 BC–600 AD), or the big Holocene Warmings centered on 6,000 and 8,000 BC.

The IPCC apparently wanted to dismiss the sun as a climate factor—to leave room for a CO2 factor that has only a 22 percent correlation with our past thermometer record. Correlation is not causation—but the lack of CO2 correlation is deadly to the IPCC theory.

Henrik Svensmark of the Danish Space Research Institute added the next chapter in the climate cycle story, just before our book was published. His cloud chamber experiment showed natural cosmic rays quickly created vast numbers of tiny “cloud seeds” when our mix of atmospheric gases was bombarded with ultra-violet light. Since clouds often cover 30 percent of the earth’s surface, a moderate change in cloud cover clearly could explain the warming/cooling cycle.

Svensmark noted the gigantic “solar wind” that expands when the sun is active—and thus blocks many of the cosmic rays that would otherwise hit the earth’s atmosphere. When the sun weakens, the solar wind shrinks. Recently, the U.S. Solar Observatory reported a very long period of “quiet sun” and predicted 30 years of cooling.

Last year, Denmark’s University of Aarhus did another experiment with a particle accelerator that fully confirmed the Svensmark hypothesis: cosmic rays help to make more clouds and thus could cool the earth.

The CERN experiment is supposed to be the big test of the Svensmark theory. It’s a tipoff, then, that CERN’s boss, Rolf-Dieter Heuer, has just told the German magazine Die Welt that he has forbidden his researchers to “interpret” the forthcoming test results. In other words, the CERN report will be a stark “just the facts” listing of the findings. Those findings must support Svensmark, or Heuer would never have issued such a stifling order on a major experiment.

Stay tuned. 

Canada Free Press

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#1002672 - 25/07/2011 12:34 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: pearly1]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
We are all awaiting with anticipation on this one.

Here's my prediction:

The paper will come out and be very "balanced". It will report the results claarly show that cosmic rays produce small cloud forming particles in the atmosphere but this will be tempered in that there will be some discussion on whether these are in sufficient amounts to overide other "natural" processes. The question of whether these can in any way explain the observed climatic warming/cooling will not be addressed. [And there will be some acknowledgement of AGW in a throwaway line...]
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1002717 - 25/07/2011 20:00 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
crikey Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/02/2011
Posts: 2763
Loc: Tweed Heads
In relation to cloud formation.
For 6 months l have been observing the world satellite pic in Black and white produced by met Office. It is a rectangular version of the globe.
I take a few notes and make some observations.
One thing that constantly amazes me if the pattern or Rhythm of cloud PATTERN. There is a consistency within the variation and a good measure of symmetry.Across the longitutunal meridians of the southern hemisphere. ( l haven't observed the northern hemisphere)
The pattern changes every few days
When cloud fronts are long, they are long across the 'board'
Last week the whole southern hemmisphere had segmented cloud strokes
When the Lows are massive they are across 'the board'
When lows are small they are across the board.
If there is a mix in high and low size , there is a pattern etc.
. I understand some oscillations are known. Like the Southern oscillation index ( SAM l think its called)
There is something that causes these changes and ordered patterns.
The clouds behave like a pulse type behaviour. Not a random pattern
The only thing that l can think of that could have a period/pulse of two to 3 days is most likely to be an electomagnetic radiation source.
That could be solar or cosmic..
Not sure if any studies have been done on cloud PATTERNS in the southern hemisphere.??
The patterns are Important as they dictate fronts, lows , highs , temps and moisture sources from polar to equator etc
_________________________
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#1002724 - 25/07/2011 21:15 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: crikey]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Crikey you might like to read up on [ Prof of Atmospheric Science. MIT] Richard Lindzen's cloud "Iris" theory in which high cirrus clouds and the manner in which they are generated or disperse and disappear allows OLR [ Outgoing Long wave Radiation to act so as to radiate heat back to space ie ; cooling or to retain the radiation back down near the surface.ie; heating.

A negative feedback theory that Lindzen calculates as going quite a long way to countering any claimed global warming from increasing CO2.
This hypothesis has been challenged but the jury is still out as it may just be one of a whole jigsaw of mainly negative and some positive feedbacks ie; Svensmark's cosmic ray / cloud formation theory, most of which have not yet been identified or quantified.

The main common denominator in potential negative feedbacks seems to keep on coming back to global cloud cover as it only needs about a 2% or 3% change in global cloud cover to make the difference between a warming or a cooling planet.
Negtive feedbacks bring stability to the climate as it oscillates around in a very narrow range.
Positive feedbacks lead to a runaway climate, something that simply has not occurred even when major climate excursions like Heinrich events, very rapid cooling events that last up to maybe 750 years or alternatively the Dansgaard–Oeschger rapid warming events.
The climate has stabilised after each of these major climate events and settled back into a stable temperature regime each time that is still suitable for an immense variety of life which is indicative that negative feedbacks are the predominant climate control mechanism.

NASA ; Earth Observatory; [ The simplified version ] Does the Earth have an Iris analog

And the abstract from Lindzen, Chou and Hou paper.

Does the Earth Have an Adaptive Infrared Iris?
[quote]ABSTRACT
Observations and analyses of water vapor and clouds in the Tropics over the past decade show that the boundary
between regions of high and low free-tropospheric relative humidity is sharp, and that upper-level cirrus and high free-
tropospheric relative humidity tend to coincide. Most current studies of atmospheric climate feedbacks have focused on
such quantities as clear sky humidity, average humidity, or differences between regions of high and low humidity, but
the data suggest that another possible feedback might consist of changes in the relative areas of high and low humidity
and cloudiness. Motivated by the observed relation between cloudiness (above the trade wind boundary layer) and high
humidity, cloud data for the eastern part of the western Pacific from the Japanese Geostationary Meteorological Satel-
lite-5 (which provides high spatial and temporal resolution) have been analyzed, and it has been found that the area of
cirrus cloud coverage normalized by a measure of the area of cumulus coverage decreases about 22% per degree Cel-
sius increase in the surface temperature of the cloudy region. A number of possible interpretations of this result are ex-
amined and a plausible one is found to be that cirrus detrainment from cumulus convection diminishes with increasing
temperature. The implications of such an effect for climate are examined using a simple two-dimensional radiative–
convective model. The calculations show that such a change in the Tropics could lead to a negative feedback in the
global climate, with a feedback factor of about

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#1002732 - 25/07/2011 22:38 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
crikey Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/02/2011
Posts: 2763
Loc: Tweed Heads
Thanks ROM. A great article. I like the idea that earth is capable of dealing with temp changes by opening or closing the 'window', so to speak.
It gives you comfort to know the earth is intelligent and its design is programmed to maintain life on earth and self correct and re-adapt even after say a meteor strike.
Of course if we are overheating the planet then according to the IRIS concept,we would expect to see signs of increased high pressure cells that clear the cloud to allow infra red to escape. Actually you would also expect to see a decline in cloud cover to allow heat to escape .
In fact since 1996 there has been a decline in mean global cloud cover.
Yep. I believe the earth has a global Iris's that can deal with the forcing of temps from ground level into the troposphere and from external sources like the sun and cosmic rays.
And of course if the earth is self preserving we may or may not see extremes that could threaten life on earth.
Maybe the earth will spit us out and re-invent, if we can't take care of this planet
or maybe we will be sustained by an earth that will keep the temp moderated by those amazing feedback loops that will temper any attempts we make to overheat the troposphere.
We really live on an amazing planet!

Thanks again for your posts. You really are a bundle of knowledge!!
How did you learn all this. Are you Science trained?
_________________________
http://weathercycles.wordpress.com/

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#1002759 - 26/07/2011 08:52 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: crikey]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Thanks crikey but I am just an old retired farmer who left school at 15 years old and leaving school is now getting up towards some 50 years ago.

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#1002761 - 26/07/2011 09:10 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
OOPS! time doth fly! Make that as my leaving leaving school nearly 60 years ago

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#1002804 - 26/07/2011 13:46 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 706
Anders Breivik was a global warming sceptic and admired Lord Monckton link

Originally Posted By: Anders Breivik

You might know them as environmentalists, enviro-communists, eco-Marxists, neo-Communists or eco-fanatics. They all claim they want to save the world from global warming but their true agenda is to contribute to create a world government lead by the UN or in other ways increase the transfer of resources (redistribute resources) from the developed Western world to the third world. They hope to accomplish this through the distribution of misinformation (propaganda) which they hope will lead to increased taxation of already excessively taxed Europeans and US citizens.

The neo-communist agenda uses politicised science to propagate the global warming scam in order to implement their true agenda; global Marxism. Marxism‘s ultimate goal is to redistribute wealth from successful nations to failed nations, instead of actually trying to fix these broken nations. Politicised science is being used by the cultural Marxist hegemony to manipulate the unsuspecting masses. They are using our trust and faith in science to spread lies and hysteria that will allow Marxists to implement socialist “solutions” to a problem that never actually existed.


The section of his manifesto on global warming contains many links to www.prisonplanet.com and a few links to Lord Monckton's speeches.

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#1002809 - 26/07/2011 14:22 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: __PG__]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
__PG__ surely a man of your talents could have figured out how to link in Sarah Palin as well? wink
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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