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#1007190 - 21/08/2011 14:14 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Cliffhanger]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld



Poker Flat etc
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climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1007191 - 21/08/2011 14:15 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Cliffhanger]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
Cliffhanger you can fantasize all you like.

My credentials are as a BOM radar engineer, who actually designs and tests these systems and knows the inner workings intimately.
I know what the Bureau response was as I was involved in assisting the public affairs officers in describing the cause and effects.

I can create any of these images given the correct stimuli, and our test systems at Broadmeadows Vic are the best place to demonstrate the effects of co channel interference.

You can dispute whatever I have said. But I simply know that you are WRONG when it comes to the effects observed by the radars.
END OF STORY.

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#1007192 - 21/08/2011 14:16 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Cliffhanger]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
As i said, this information is all available to the public and can be seen at;

http://vlf-engineering.stanford.edu/map/public_map.php#home
_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1007194 - 21/08/2011 14:20 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Cliffhanger]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
Thank you so much zathras. i am glad that we have been able to get you back to posting in the forum.

Could we do a test to simulate the images, so that the public can see and follow the exact occurance at an exact time?
_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1007195 - 21/08/2011 14:22 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Cliffhanger]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
And can you give some offical input on the above information regarding the VLF uploads. What exactly are they uploading? I have also taken some interesting screenshots at the time of the uploads, but perhaps you can give us some details , from the meteoroligical point of view?
_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1007201 - 21/08/2011 14:46 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Cliffhanger]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
Originally Posted By: Cliffhanger
Could we do a test to simulate the images, so that the public can see and follow the exact occurance at an exact time?


As much as I would like to do that you must realise we need to provide as high a quality service as possible. Deliberately creating corrupted images that we know will be sent to the WWW is not a realistic request.

Every so often accidents do happen and test scans sneak out when the should not have eg well defined annular rings (test pulse at range)
Likewise the annular noise rings may be due to tweaking of the noise threshold.

I have the luxury of unhindered access to an offline radar that is used for test and development, and every day I use that I deal with interference spirals and noise breakthrough.

The thing that needs to be kept in mind is a lot of the Bureau signal processors are relatively basic and very little work is done on site to produce the images. This means they are very prone to interference. The newer doppler based units are better able to expel incoherent signals, but nothing is ever perfect.
The older systems also have no inbuilt display to observe the images they produce, meaning images have to be produced to view on other equipment, and that allows rogue images to get out if not careful.

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#1007212 - 21/08/2011 15:54 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: ROM]
Tom1234 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1709
Loc: Port Stephens
Originally Posted By: ROM


It was purely "a matter of degree" that separated us "normal" folk from those unfortunates confined in that Institution.



you just need to do a quick search on cognitive dissonance to see how the brain functions in wierd ways.

"Dissonance is reduced by justifying, blaming, and denying."

The psycology of judgment and decision making by Scott Plous is a good read. Its the text book for one of my subjects and its actually more interesting then i thought it would be as i have no real interest in psycology. It shows how flawed our memories and perceptions are

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#1007231 - 21/08/2011 17:40 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Tom1234]
Brett Guy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 4859
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Cliffhanger. I am curious about something. You talk about weather events like massive rainfall, cyclones and storms being created. Do you actually have any idea of the complexity of events that lead up to a tropical cyclone. Could you list the things that are required for cyclogenises without doing hours of research and simply spewing out basic information. If you could I highly doubt you would think that a couple of tweaks by humans would be enough to create or steer one of the mmost powerful forces on earth.

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#1007232 - 21/08/2011 17:56 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: KevD]
teckert Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 27/05/2001
Posts: 17523
Loc: NE suburbs, Adelaide, South Au...
Originally Posted By: Black Nor'easter
Oh Jeez, knew chemtrails would come into it sometime...is this really under 'general weather' - think we need a new category, just can't think of a polite name for it...


Love it..... I was thinking the same.... smile

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#1007264 - 21/08/2011 21:09 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: teckert]
KevD Offline
Occasional Visitor

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 5079
Loc: Bellingen NSW 2454
Please note all that this thread has now been moved from 'General Weather' to 'The Lounge'...

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#1007289 - 22/08/2011 00:15 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Tom1234]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
Originally Posted By: Richard Rahl
Originally Posted By: ROM


It was purely "a matter of degree" that separated us "normal" folk from those unfortunates confined in that Institution.



you just need to do a quick search on cognitive dissonance to see how the brain functions in wierd ways.

"Dissonance is reduced by justifying, blaming, and denying."

The psycology of judgment and decision making by Scott Plous is a good read. Its the text book for one of my subjects and its actually more interesting then i thought it would be as i have no real interest in psycology. It shows how flawed our memories and perceptions are


Richard, does that mean that every person on the forum who has been debating climate change and global warming falls in this catagory? Depending on your own preferance,one could call the carbon tax and co2 emmissions debate 'cognitive dissonance' or even a conspiracy theory, as every person on those threads was trying to 'justify, blame and/or deny". Did they all step over the line to be marked as slightly of centre? I don't think so.

@ Brett, no i am not an expert on cyclone formation. As i have said, i am researching, finding and questioning. I think that even with your knowledge of basic weather systems, you would not come close to the capability of the physics, geological, and radio astronomy departments of the best Uni's in the world.
If i knew how it all worked and thought I had the answers, i guess I would be at Stanford, with a nice research grant under my belt, and not on a weather forum trying to gain some valuable insight and raise awareness of the possibilty.
Can YOU tell me, without any hesitation, is the difficulty of understanding the weather systems too unimaginable to overcome for a group of the greatest minds on earth, and if so, does that stop them from trying?
Do you deny that they have been trying for decades?
It is, after all, the 'trying" that is the danger.
_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1007325 - 22/08/2011 09:43 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: Cliffhanger]
---- Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/11/2002
Posts: 5786
I think oh delete key operator that my comment here was about as relevant as Mr E's above. Perhaps that should be removed as well. Oh hang on a minute it did not involve questioning authority hey? tsk tsk tsk... Bad me lol lol


Edited by -hillsrain- (22/08/2011 09:43)

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#1007328 - 22/08/2011 10:16 Re: UNDENIABLE PROOF! HAARP IN AUSTRALIA [Re: zathras]
Loopy Radar Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 880
Loc: Lismore NSW
Originally Posted By: zathras
Cliffhanger you can fantasize all you like.

My credentials are as a BOM radar engineer, who actually designs and tests these systems and knows the inner workings intimately.
I know what the Bureau response was as I was involved in assisting the public affairs officers in describing the cause and effects.

I can create any of these images given the correct stimuli, and our test systems at Broadmeadows Vic are the best place to demonstrate the effects of co channel interference.

You can dispute whatever I have said. But I simply know that you are WRONG when it comes to the effects observed by the radars.
END OF STORY.


Here's a collective fantasy in the sky
http://www.enterprisemission.com/Norway-Message3.htm
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It's going to be a great storm season... somewhere else!

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#1007359 - 22/08/2011 12:59 ELF and VLF-can HAARP and other projects affect our weather?
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
It has been established that HAARP is part of a network of research projects to which the Australian government has allowed the australian people to be subjected to, for better or for worse.
The question remains whether the large network of Radio transmitters, shooting radiowaves and microwaves into our atmosphere,casuing 'electron bursts' in concentrated clusters in the region, can,in fact affect our weather patterns, and be contributing to word wide weather chaos, we are currently experiencing and have experienced in the past.
Discussions on this forum have taken place regarding Global warming, man made weather modifications and CO2 emmissions(where pages and pages of quoted references have been posted and discussed).
Probing into the ELF and VLF transmission issue,includes all of the above debates and needs to be questioned alongside those heated debates,under "general weather'threads.
If this is a contraversial topic, not allowed to be brought to the publics attention, please supply a reason why, in private, and not in the form of post clutter to derail the topic.
This thread is about finding proof or implications, not about personal belief or conjecture.
If anyone is in denial that Haarp is, in fact, in Australia, please refer to the thread in the Lounge, over a cup of tea.

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#1007361 - 22/08/2011 13:09 Re: ELF and VLF-can HAARP and other projects affect our weather? [Re: Cliffhanger]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7160
Loc: Adelaide Hills.
Originally Posted By: Cliffhanger
This thread is about finding proof or implications, not about personal belief or conjecture.

Are you not a starting off with a conjecture and attempting to prove it, rather than seting out to find out what's going on, and finding out along the way?

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#1007362 - 22/08/2011 13:14 Re: ELF and VLF-can HAARP and other projects affect our weather? [Re: Cliffhanger]
GringosRain Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 19/06/2007
Posts: 1331
Loc: Quorrobolong NSW
Cliffhanger it shouldnt have been moved in the first place. I respect your resilience.
The previous thread certainly brought a lot of information to me that I was unaware of with regard to HAARP.
I wish this new thread a strong and happy life in situ, with some proper, informed (if not heated) debate.

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#1007364 - 22/08/2011 13:29 Re: ELF and VLF-can HAARP and other projects affect our weather? [Re: GringosRain]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
I am not trying to prove anything Cosmic. I am wanting to find out as much as possible, and hopefully hear back from people who are experts in the field.This is not a thesis on articulation or alternative beliefs. This is providing facts, and questioning the relevance to global warming, and weather events.And for any queries about whether I actually read all the documents I cite--Yes I do, in depth.Thanks Gringo-please learn more.

as stated in the study;

"Comparative study on earthquake and ground based transmitter induced radiation belt electron precipitation at middle latitudes" -march 2011,undertaken by the natural hazards

and earth system sciences insitute
www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/11/1901/2011/

'energetic electron precipitation has been hypothesized to originate mostly from man-made VLF transmitter radiation, although a nonobservational basis has been known to confirm this impression as far as we know"

"energetic electron structure associated with the most powerful transmitter of the US Navy in Western Australia extends in latitudes eastward of the west coast of Australia."

'Since the presence of the most powerful earth-based NWC transmitter in Australia could be considered as the major
source of energetic electron events observed eastward of this transmitter (Sauvaud et al., 2008),"

Other powerful earth- based transmitters are also operating in various countries around the world. Green and Fung (2005) reported that they identified over 100 stations generating emissions in the frequency range 10–50 kHz.

For scholars to undertake such a study in the first place, we can logically conclude that there is a concern!

The paper concludes with:

' In a paper under preparation, we will present an even more detailed comparative study on the relative contribution
of earthquake- and the anthropogenic-related electron precipitation events."

We live in a world where the global warming and climate change debates are at an all time peak, heavily diverted
to model comparisons, and scientific and layman opinion.
However, when the question arises whether this climate change, could indeed have been seriously affected by
anthropogenic methods, over a lenthy time span, the subject is relegated to a lounge environment, to be
discussed as a humerous topic over a glass of wine, whilst the real scientists are busily preparing study after
study to rebutt any notion that their experimentation is having cataclysmic effects, so that they may continue
their experimentation without public outcry and investigation? Transmitter induced electron precipitation involves heating the top layer of our atmosphere. Most studies target the D layer, which is the thin layer closest to the Magnetosphere.

"Ezperiments with the HAARP Ionospheric Heater"- Stanford VLF group

'While most of the radiated ELF wave energy is confined below the ionosphere, some of it leaks out into the
magnetosphere where it can be detected by satellites such as DEMETER, and under special conditions, be guided
along ducts (irregularities in the plasma density) that follow the Earth's magnetic field lines. While the waves are propagating in these ducts they are amplified by interactions with electrons in the magnetosphere. The amplified wave can then be detected in the opposite hemisphere, at the magnetic conjugate point of HAARP in the
southern Pacific Ocean (Gołkowski et al., 2010; Gołkowski et al., 2008; Inan et al., 2004)."

"Discovering how natural conditions affect HAARPs ability to generate ELF is a key for determining the
practicality of using modulated heating as a ELF source, and for using modulated heating as another diagnostic
tool in studying the ionosphere."
'A disadvantage of using HAARP instead of conventional ELF/VLF transmitters is HAARP's dependence on the
auroral electrojet, which naturally varies in intensity and can cause the generated ELF to also vary in intensity.
However, the correlation is not direct, and surprisingly strong ELF signals can be detected even when the
electrojet is negligible'

Should it not be the other way around, and should we not be studying and releasing the data on how ELF affects
the natural conditions,even though there may be proof of negative impact?

Global warming, earthquakes and climate change?? Changes in weather patterns?
This truly is a significant weather related topic!

http://vlf-engineering.stanford.edu/map/public_map.php#home
_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1007368 - 22/08/2011 13:45 Re: ELF and VLF-can HAARP and other projects affect our weather? [Re: Cliffhanger]
Big_Pete Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 19/12/2004
Posts: 1955
Loc: Perth
Originally Posted By: Cliffhanger
I am not trying to prove anything Cosmic. I am wanting to find out as much as possible, and hopefully hear back from people who are experts in the field.


But Cliffhanger, you had 2 people who were either working for a BoM or previously worked for the BoM tell you that ELF/VLF did not affect our weather. Are you saying they are wrong?

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#1007369 - 22/08/2011 13:46 Re: ELF and VLF-can HAARP and other projects affect our weather? [Re: Cliffhanger]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7160
Loc: Adelaide Hills.
Originally Posted By: Cliffhanger
Global warming, earthquakes and climate change?? Changes in weather patterns? This truly is a significant weather related topic!

Yes it is smile … what I am saying is you might want to think about having all HARRP stuff in a thread that relates to the question I posed … meaning a question, not an answer. If you are attempting to say something along the lines of “I know why the world weather systems are in chaos!”…that is an answer.

Also, if you’re going to deal with global warming, it doesn’t belong in the General Weather area…

I would suggest consultation on this as it is getting ambiguous…something that is general needs to be outlined properly, and something that is climate-specific needs to be in the Climate area.

Edit:

Lastly, I don't want to get bogged down in this, so I'll leave it up to you.


Edited by -Cosmic- (naz) (22/08/2011 13:53)

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#1007388 - 22/08/2011 16:10 Re: ELF and VLF-can HAARP and other projects affect our weather? [Re: Seira]
RV Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 31/12/2006
Posts: 985
Loc: Geranium, Home of Virga
changing the topic heading is like covering a log in chocolate and calling it a polywaffle. Its still the same s--t on the inside.

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