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#995432 - 15/06/2011 08:52 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Dawgggg]
Sandfly Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 18/10/2010
Posts: 828
Loc: Rockhampton
I'd really like to buy another Jeep Wrangler (Unlimited Rubicon) with a couple of inches of lift, a good set of MT tyres, winch bar and winch,like this: http://my.project-jk.com/data/508/medium/Picture_0184.jpg
However with the price of everything shyrocketing, wages falling and a looming carbon tax, sadly I see this not happening.
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#995436 - 15/06/2011 09:21 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Sandfly]
AaronD Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 1017
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
I try to get out a fair bit but nothing more than weekend trips really at this stage. i think ill save the big trips for when im older and cant do as much active stuff in my spare time.

even then i don't do an awful lot, still at the beginner stage i think and learning what the utes capable of.
for the first 6 months i had it was just liked to find hills to drive up and stupid stuff but now i look for the easier way around things and just got for a nice drive in the middle of nowhere. There's a lot of real nice places within 3 hours of Sydney.

Xavo, i think diesels are designed to just chug along at low revs forever (provided they are looked after) if you thrash them, or try and drive them fast like a petrol they will guzzle fuel and wont last as long as possible, but as Trav said, a well looked after petrol will probably do just as good.

Diesels perform much better 4x4ing tho, i wouldn't get a petrol in a 4x4.


The lady i bought my ute from had 2 sets of tires which was good, i have a set of skinny road tires that i get 10L/100km which is great for every day use then some bigger off road tires that get about 14L/100kms

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#995460 - 15/06/2011 11:44 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: AaronD]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17461
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Wow Sandfly even a thread meant to be about your vehicles can't escape political garb. Let's take it right off topic shall we?

I agree Aaron regarding diesel in 4x4. I would never bother with a petrol and so many others feel the same that it stuns me that Toyota don't have a diesel in the new FJ cruiser. A brilliant back to basics off road veihile with no diesel option is plain crazy and will cost it sales.

Our new addition is a Sportage platinum diesel from pickerings Townsville and the car is brilliant. If it didn't have the diesel I wouldn't have bought it despite not being a serious offroad vehicle. The highway milage is excellent and the torque makes the ranges here a snap.

....and Ted, snorkels are probably not named correctly due to the confusion they cause people such as yourself. Their intended function is to keep dust out of the air being fed into your engine, not water. The killer in modern vehicles when driving through floodwaters is the electronics and more often than not the car dies as water gets into the engine management system which is located under the seat more often than not.

If a diesel and petrol engine are driven and serviced the same way the diesel is an inherently stronger motor from the day it is built with much more strengthening built in. Hence the extra cost and weight. Give them a life driving up and down a highway and the diesel will outlast the petrol 2 to 1 which is why they are fitted in trucks. You won't get a million kilometres out of any petrol engine on the market today but diesels do it regularly.

The extra cost of diesels is more than offset by the fuel savings over the life of the car and when people talk about their extra cost to buy they never factor in the fact that most of it comes back when it's time to sell.
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#995461 - 15/06/2011 11:57 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17461
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
My edit time ran out but here is a good explanation of them from a retailer.

"Not all air rams are equal in performance
That's why Airflow Snorkels are designed, manufactured and tested to maximise performance.



In general, air rams need an open face - preferably without a screen (which deflects airflow). The ratio of the open face of the air ram to outlet aperture should be a minimum 1.4:1. Any less than this and there will be insufficient cyclone action to effectively separate out the contaminants.

Any deflection in the incoming air flow can dramatically affect the efficiency and output. This can be caused by:

•Close proximity to a bonnet/hood
•A foil/curved top on the air ram
•Turning the air ram away from the direction of travel
• Where the air ram design makes the air go back on itself at an angle greater than 100°
In the case of the air ram being turned away from the direction of travel the result is lessening of the positive pressure that is desirable. In the extreme, a vacuum is caused (i.e. turning the air ram backwards which may cause engine damage and should only be used over short distances).

Incorrect design of the air ram can cause excessive induction noise, lack of separation and air blocking by vortex of the air at various speeds. This air blocking will limit air flow. This is a common occurrence where design and look of the air ram is put ahead of its functionality."
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#995466 - 15/06/2011 12:40 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: ColdFront]
Sandfly Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 18/10/2010
Posts: 828
Loc: Rockhampton
I have to say I disagree with the Diesel option, I would only ever buy a Petrol 4x4 with Auto trans only, maybe I would consider a Diesel if I was doing long distance touring stuff. But I have to say that in truly difficult off-road situations power is very important, especially power to weight ratio. And sad to say that not many diesels have much power, dollops of torque in the lower end of the RPM range yes, but many diesels lack any grunt under the pedal when you really need some get up and go, driving them is like trying to race an turtle through a bowl of custard.
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#995567 - 15/06/2011 21:01 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Sandfly]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17461
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
You need to go and drive a modern diesel then come back and post about lack of power. My vehicle will see off plenty of petrol engines off the line due to bottom end torque or "grunt" as you refer to it that a petrol engine can only dream of with any less than eight cylinders. Any expert on offroad driving will tell you to steer clear of autos also as you can't "rock" them when bogged which requires fast shifting between reverse and first gear. Then there's the fuel bill.

Your post above mentions cost being your prohibitor but the auto is dearer to purchase and in a vehicle such as the land cruiser you won't get anywhere near the economy of a diesel when it goes offroad. Expect tears at the bowser when it comes back with economy around 25 ltrs/100k''s. The hilux/navara/ranger V6 petrols all use over 15 ltrs/100k's in normal urban driving with a manual transmission and plenty are sold for that very reason soon after purchase.

If I was doing a trip around Australia with a van on the back there is no way on earth I'd do it with an auto / petrol 4 wheel drive.

Ted stay away from the petrol 4x4's if you don't want to spend your days at the fuel pump. The economy claim on the labels is farcical and there is a reason only 10 percent of 4x4's sold in Australia are petrol powered. 4x4's are heavy and it is torque thatis needed to get them off the line and mobile without massive consumption and that is where diesel has it over petrol in spades.

Audi are developing a V10 diesel sports car after winning le mans in a diesel powered vehicle. If you don't want to take my word for it go and check out the many forums on diesel 4wds. They can't all be wrong.

My last 4 cars have been diesel and not one of them has been lacking in power. Ford's new ecoboost engines which will be added to the falcon soon are diesels. Small capacity high output that petrols engines can only dream of.
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#995631 - 16/06/2011 08:03 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: ColdFront]
Sandfly Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 18/10/2010
Posts: 828
Loc: Rockhampton
CF, when you have a double locked, petrol automatic 4x4 you dont get bogged, so dont talk about rocking, i'll leave that to you diesel boys. And my work car is a current TD Hilux, and it's a slow slug.
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#995670 - 16/06/2011 14:01 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Sandfly]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17461
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach

Ted as already stated 1 in 10 4x4 ute sales in Australia is petrol and there's a very good reason for that. This can go back and forward for ever but the fact remains that 9 out of EVERY 10 four wheel drive utes sold in this country are diesel and there's a very good reason for it.

Ted don't take my word for it, go and do some research yourself. The figures speak for themselves. If you're planning to head out west chasing storms it's a no brainer. The petrol version will send you broke .If you want to win traffic light drags keep your falcon .

This crap is going around in circles.Read this link Ted. There are plenty the same. I'm done!

http://www.4x4earth.com.au/forum/general-4x4-discussion/4122-petrol-diesel-2.html


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#995776 - 17/06/2011 06:45 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: ColdFront]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23527
Loc: Townsville
bud im FOR diesal, the hilux im looking at is diesal, i would never ever go petrol for a 4WD, for the facts you have stated above already.
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#995787 - 17/06/2011 09:04 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Dawgggg]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
When I was looking to buy a hilux I wanted a diesal for a number of reasons:
1. more torque
2. more options for fuel to be sourced from renewable energy e.g biodiesal
3. engine has double the life of petrol
4. the advantages for off-roading e.g water crossings

But at the time, I decided to buy a petrol because:
1. It was cheaper!!! Diesals of the same model/yr were 2-3 k more expensive
2. Higher expense to replace engine or fuel pump in diesal models compared to petrol
3. I had been looking for months, travelled to Brisbane checked out what was available at the dealerships but came back to Rocky without anything and then just by chance saw an ad in paper and that was the one.... so availability /options probably played a big part in my decision. But definately would have preferred a diesal if I could have bought it for the same price.

Apart from that, I have found the petrol SR5 dual cab ute 4x4 hilux can match the performace of any other 4x4 for general offroad (mind you I don't do hardcore offroad, winch challenges or stuff like that - I just go where I need to get to and my lux has always got me in and out of remote locations and through challenging terrain. Ultimately THAT is all that matters to me)!

I did 4x4 training with the Mt Cotton guys years ago, back then I was driving fully loaded landcruiser traybacks - straight 6 cylinders. The trucks generally weighed 3 tonne once fully loaded (I think generally they weigh 1.5 tonne without canopy and gear)... anyways to cut my waffling on.... the training i did with these guys was fantastic. I was so surprised that these lumbering landcruisers could actually idle their way up slopes greater than 10%. We had a number of 4wd's at Seeohne park for training that day - all had different diff systems, one auto & a petrol - so it was interesting to compare their performance and handling. The key thing that stood out to me was that each vehicle required mastery of different driving techniques for optimal performance. Certainly each vehcile had an advantage or rather a forte... So ultimately I think with 4x4, that the performance of the vehicle is determined by a number of factors of which fuel type is just a small part.

Anyways back to the hilux, mine has had ongoing issues with driveline since a couple of years back when I spent time in the NT. I got some repairs up in Darwin but think they did a dodge job (total rip-off grrrr) and it has never driven the same since, actually it has never driven the same since I went down the Hardy's 4x4 track - so it's probably my own fault and doing really. Right now I know it needs replacemnet of outer cv boots and probably the whole chassis / suspension/ driveline system needs a good lube. haha- I should learn to do it all myself - it is just easier to pay someone to do it!

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#995794 - 17/06/2011 10:19 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Sara B]
AaronD Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 1017
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Something you will find with petrols is if your on flat ground in 2nd gear (high) and you let is crawl along it will start kangaroo hopping whereas a diesel will just keep chugging along slowly and smoothly. its because diesels dont throttle the air like petrols, there's always the same volume of air going into the engine and you throttle the fuel whereas in petrols your throttling the fuel and air with the accelerator.


I've had an ongoing problem with mine too. too hard to explain but i get alot of resistance and vibrations when in 4x4 going above 25km/h. but in 2x4 and hubs locked i get the resistance and no vibrations and in 4x4 with hubs locked i dont get any problems at all.
Mechanics have no idea, I've searched extensively on 4x4 forums, its driving me insane.


chunkyluxtrax, its a pretty big job to do the CV boots, as you either have to drop the front diff out or remove the lower control arm to allow clearance for the spline on the CV to clear the hubs.
it would definitely be worth getting them replaced otherwise the dirt getting into the CVs will ruin the whole joint so you will have to replace the whole CV.
The chassis and driveline lube is easy tho. i do mine all the time. goto supercheap and get a a grease gun and a tube of the blue chassis grease and get underneaths and there should be about 8 nipples along the driveline just plug it in and squeeze it in until it oozes out. same thing the balljoints have nipples on them too (not sure if you sue the same grease for them tho.)

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#995914 - 18/06/2011 10:51 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: AaronD]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
Originally Posted By: AaronD
Something you will find with petrols is if your on flat ground in 2nd gear (high) and you let is crawl along it will start kangaroo hopping
yeah, have noticed that but never gave it much thought
Originally Posted By: AaronD
its because diesels dont throttle the air like petrols, there's always the same volume of air going into the engine and you throttle the fuel whereas in petrols your throttling the fuel and air with the accelerator.
good to know why
Originally Posted By: AaronD
I've had an ongoing problem with mine too. too hard to explain but i get alot of resistance and vibrations when in 4x4 going above 25km/h. but in 2x4 and hubs locked i get the resistance and no vibrations and in 4x4 with hubs locked i dont get any problems at all.
Mechanics have no idea, I've searched extensively on 4x4 forums, its driving me insane.
for a while I had problems with steering, every time I turned to the left I would hear a knocking crunching noise - every mechanic that looked at it couldn't suss it out or even hear the noise...and I kind of started to feel like I was a hypochondriac going from mechanic to mechanic with an imaginary problem - ha... turned out was just a grease/lube issue... ball joints or something like that
Originally Posted By: AaronD
The chassis and driveline lube is easy tho. i do mine all the time....
yep totally must start to do this myself. cheers

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#995976 - 18/06/2011 19:54 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Sara B]
AaronD Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 1017
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
good to know why


its because in the 4 stroke cycle, in a diesel engine has a constant pressure combustion whereas a petrol cycle has a constant volume (but changing pressure) combustion.


wikipedia explains the combustion process a bit for the 2 types of engines, its quite complex tho, and i dont understand it fully.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_cycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_cycle

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#996018 - 19/06/2011 08:58 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: AaronD]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23527
Loc: Townsville
Still waiting for my loan to be approved.... DAMN frown
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#1008608 - 29/08/2011 20:12 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Dawgggg]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
My poor luxie needs some TLC, I have been neglecting it for the last 6 mths and suddenly everything has come all at once... wants new battery, brakes front & rear, LHS axle boot, a clip for the air filter (been missing since I bought it and every service the air filter is totally clogged). I would also like to give it an engine recon or even conversion, get a snorkel put on, new tyres, new speakers & would love new paint job.
Somebody should pimp my ride!

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#1008657 - 29/08/2011 22:50 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Sara B]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
my neighbour just went out the back gate for a run west ....he's making me jealous.
headed out friday and is through port augusta and heading for the connie sue hwy and nth to warburton.
he ran up there last year and broke a gear box but should be fine this time.
he's coming back through Alice Springs but we'll see what happens :-D he's travelling tandem/two up with a farmer mate from horsham ...both with campers on their current model farm ute hiluxs with their holiday tyres on (good outfits)

my old cruiser is like yours chunkylux ...and needs some cash thrown at it also.
Need a rich tourist we can take for a run into the outback and they can pay the repairs ...I'd first go into the gibber and get myself some new tyres.
that's what we need ..some rich gullible tourist poke


Edited by Arnoldnut (29/08/2011 22:53)
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#1008687 - 30/08/2011 05:47 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Arnoldnut]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
strange you speak of wanting to head out west... I'm getting that feeling again too

hey what a great idea, maybe we could start a 4wd network & provide the tourists with a 'genuine' aussie experience... haha - one that money cannot buy

wouldn't trade it or have it any other way

....thinking of Malcom Douglas (RIP)

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#1010710 - 08/09/2011 09:41 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Sara B]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Way Out West is the same age as my everyday drive HQ tonner I notice chunkylux.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUmtSpGhMEs

HQ tonners would be the only two wheel drive ute you can bog on a wet lawn .....that's really special poke
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1011306 - 09/09/2011 19:29 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Arnoldnut]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
grin
wonder how long my new cv boots will last this time!!!! Just spent a weeks earnings on me lux- but on order of importance, lux is right up there at the top, never mind I need a new vacuum cleaner (duct taped to the max) and some teeth reparation works- ha


Edited by chunkyluxtrax (09/09/2011 19:30)

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#1011329 - 09/09/2011 20:19 Re: 4WD Mechanical & Offroad Chat [Re: Arnoldnut]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
I hate getting bogged -has only happened in work vehicles...in my lux - NEVER! But I'm guessing the universe could teach me a bit of a lesson one day... best thing is to be discerning before driving on in & have the right gear - which I don't.

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