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#1016040 - 30/09/2011 18:19 Authoritative world climate data
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2180
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
Before using and quoting world climate data that is available on the internet, I would like to know which data sets are authoritative. I find it very hard going. Someone must know, but they are not saying.

I hope those who know at least part of the picture will help to make it clear.

I asked for advice on the thread "ENSO Discussion 2011". Only three kind people responded. I don't want to further clutter that very specific thread with my problem.

Rightly or wrongly, I think that the US Government National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) may be the most authoritative source. There are rival US organizations, less explicitly governmental, such as the National Centre for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) at Boulder, Colorado. One reason to doubt the authority of NOAA is the American motivation to sabotage any successful government initiative.

The organization of NOAA out-byzantines Byzantium. I think it looks something like this:

US Department of Commerce
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) (was the Environmental Science Services Administration (ESSA))
1. National Weather Service (NWS) (was the Weather Bureau)
1a. National Centers for Environmental Prediction (NCEP)
1a(i) Climate Prediction Center (CPC)(was the Climate Analysis Center (CAS))
1a(i)A NCEP CFS (Coupled Forecast System model)
1a(ii) National Hurricane Center (NHC)
2. The National Environmental Satellite, Data and Information Service (NESDIS)
2a. National Climatic Data Center (archives)
3. The National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS)
4. The National Ocean Service (NOS)
5. Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research (OAR) God knows
6. Office of Program Planning and Integration (PPI)

7. National Geodetic Survey
8. National Integrated Drought Information System

"NOAA Research"
9. Earth System Research Laboratory
9a. Physical Sciences Division
Also:
9b. Global Systems Division
9c. Global Monitoring Division
9d. Chemical Sciences Division


My current queries are about:
ONI
ENSO3.4
ERSSTv3b
Nomad3
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#1016045 - 30/09/2011 18:34 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Surly Bond]
Surly Bond Offline
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Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2180
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
2a. National Climatic Data Center has the acronym NCDC.
You can't hope to find your way without an acronym! grin
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#1016112 - 30/09/2011 22:53 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Surly Bond]
S .O. Offline
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Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
SB ,

At no point in time do I profess to be anywhere accurate in what I say or understand .
But for close to twenty years I have been using the US navy website FNMOC . ( Fleet Numerical Meteorological Oceanography Centre ) .
Many on this Forum tend to down play their GFS models , but in our neck of the woods they have served myself well over time . As far as surface charts go and Precips they have been leaders for along time with only the last five or so years of " others " catching up .

Now they have ( GODAE ) , Global Ocean Data Assimilation Experiment . In the past their site has been hard to navigate , and as a result of this I haven't explored it more than say 20-30 hrs over recent years . But they seem to have a newer setup ( of which I haven't actually explored ) .
But i noted your list , and that it was missing what would have been up until 5-10 years ago the most well funded programs on the Planet .
The FNMOC in itself would have had budgets that some second world countries would dream of in years past . So worth a look .
Apologies that I'm not technically minded enough to give input into your research , but hope that this may help !!???

Pete . ( S.O )
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#1016131 - 30/09/2011 23:54 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: S .O.]
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2180
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
Thanks indeed, S.O
I'll check out the US Navy sites.
Didn't they win the Pacific War? evillaugh
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#1016137 - 01/10/2011 00:18 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Surly Bond]
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2180
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
For fnmoc,

Google Chrome tells me: "The site's security certificate is not trusted!"
Perhaps the US Navy does not trust Google Chrome?
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#1016139 - 01/10/2011 00:20 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Surly Bond]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
I beleive Science won that war ......
And that depends on who you ask since japan went on to dominate everything that uses Electricity or carrys people with a Motor .
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#1016147 - 01/10/2011 00:50 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: S .O.]
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2180
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
In producing global climate data it seems that everything links to everything else. NOAA seems to be charged with publication, i.e. getting data generated by many sources out to the public domain.
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#1016155 - 01/10/2011 02:37 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Surly Bond]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
Originally Posted By: Surly Bond
For fnmoc,

Google Chrome tells me: "The site's security certificate is not trusted!"
Perhaps the US Navy does not trust Google Chrome?


Yeah , that's always been the case . ( Not trusted ) .

Close to fifteen years and I haven't got a Virus from it .

Just type " www.fnmoc.mil.navy/Public "

There's all sorts of sub headings
And you have to " allow " more than once .
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#1016165 - 01/10/2011 07:05 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: S .O.]
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
I couldn't get the link to work. 'The site does not exist'.

A direct search for fnmoc on Google either led me into all sorts of backstreets or a whole heap of 'cannot display this webpage' messages.

Perhaps the site is in Stealth Mode.

I'll try later when I've got a bit more time.

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#1016208 - 01/10/2011 09:35 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Keith]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Seems like there is a bit of reorganisation going on in the US Navy's meteorological site, Keith. Some of these outfits mess with their sites on the weekends.
The GPS system was somewhat notorious in the early days for being way out of kilter around Monday in Australia as the yanks fiddled with and shifted their GPS sats around and messed with the programs over the US week end.

The site you are looking for which was a long time bookmark for myself is now the Naval Oceanography Portal under which the Fleet Numerical Meteorology and Oceanography Center [ FNMOC ] is located.

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#1016217 - 01/10/2011 09:54 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: ROM]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
The "Ice" section maps in the above site is interesting as the Arctic freeze is really getting under way.[ RH panel ]


Edited by ROM (01/10/2011 09:56)

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#1016223 - 01/10/2011 10:36 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: ROM]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
Keith .

Try " www.usno.navy.mil/FNMOC/ "

But it may be your Internet Security settings .

I'm not sure if its your computer or their's , but it tends to "know " your IP address . And the more you use it the quicker and easier it is to access . Since I've used for many years , its as if I'm high in the " line of users " or something .......

Even if i figure around with Internet cafe computers , there is no way ever you can access this site from these types of places . So I think its probably their filters ....... Espec, when i was in Indonesia a few years back ..... I had to plead with an American friend , who is a " diplomat " over there to let me use his " Portal " ..... And let me just say , that the "private" not public access , is a lot faster ..... and a little more available links to other areas .
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#1016233 - 01/10/2011 10:59 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: S .O.]
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
Thanks SO..I had to add the site to my 'trusted sites list'..something I normally never have to bother with.

So now to check out their SST data, among other things.

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#1016263 - 01/10/2011 12:13 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Keith]
Seina Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7763
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Like with a lot of things which are not the final product/original data, public access may not always be possible, or you have to have a pretty good reason to access them.

Consider the terms and conditions for accessing the BRAN data for example (type Bluelink Re-ANalysis) in Google.


Edited by -Cosmic- (naz) (01/10/2011 12:15)

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#1016269 - 01/10/2011 12:23 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Seina]
Seina Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7763
Loc: Adelaide Hills

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#1016416 - 01/10/2011 17:57 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Seina]
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2180
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
I appreciate this discussion, but I have the impression that there are many "interesting" sites to browse for different angles on the myriad aspects of world climate.
I want just a few attributes, but I want only the dinky-di authoritative ones. If the US Navy sites are not more up-to-date or more reliable than NOAA sites for essential data items, then they are not what I am looking for.

Are they?

Of course, weatherzone publishes some recent world climate data, but I don't know where it is copied from.
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#1016421 - 01/10/2011 18:12 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Surly Bond]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
SB ,
I wasn't saying it was any better . Just another option , as I'm perplexed for your need for " dinky di " data ?
One thing would be for certain as the navy would have the most first hand observational Data , Think of the milage of their subs in the last 50 years .......
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#1016428 - 01/10/2011 18:33 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: S .O.]
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2180
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
SO
You need not be perplexed.
I am poised to post graphs plotting my site's temperature and rainfall anomaly records against "ENSO". I already know the relationship is very close.
I need the ENSO data to be:
(a) what most people believe ENSO to be;
(b) from an authoritative source, which I can quote, Chapter and verse;
(c) data that I can download with my rudimentary skills;
(d) data that is freely available.
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#1016443 - 01/10/2011 19:42 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: Surly Bond]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
SB ,

Your accuracy and vigour is two things I don't possess .

I wish your attention to detail was shared in other fields .

Cheers
Pete .
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#1016769 - 03/10/2011 15:04 Re: Authoritative world climate data [Re: S .O.]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
Just to clarify , and without getting my American friends in the [censored] .

If you trust Wikipedia , then you will get a simple discription which is what my understanding of the Data Process is .

" Fleet Numerical Meteorology and Oceanography CenterFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The Fleet Numerical Meteorology and Oceanography Center (or FNMOC), known prior to 1995 as the Fleet Numerical Oceanography Center (FNOC), is a meteorological and oceanographic center located in Monterey, California. A United States Navy facility, it provides worldwide weather and oceanographic model and forecast data every six hours, which are made available to the public by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

According to its web site, FNMOC "is the Department of Defense's (DoD) primary central production site for worldwide computer-generated operational meteorological and oceanographic analysis and forecast products. With 65 military and 135 civilian personnel, Fleet Numerical is one of a half dozen internationally recognized operational weather centers and the world's leader in global oceanographic and coupled air-ocean forecasting."

Approximately 300 federal workers collaborate with approximately 40 Navy personnel, including other representatives of the US Air Force and British and Australian Exchange Officers. The military population at the command is approximately 70% officer and 30% enlisted. It maintains close ties with the nearby Naval Postgraduate School.

. So without saying too much , they are " Involved " .
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