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#1008453 - 28/08/2011 23:35 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
TranslucidusW Offline
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Registered: 18/11/2003
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Loc: Southern Adelaide
What an excellent example of how we have no choice in 93% of human interaction - and 7% apparent (but illusory) choice.

In fact choosing (conscious) occurs at the time or just after the action that was seemingly chosen.

Investigate this by asking mentally your finger to move and watch how it sometimes moves and other times doesn't and othertimes moves more than you "told" it to. Most revealing. It's like there is a "Mover" that is not quite "me"/"I". There you go.

Sorry!!! (said with tone of great humility)

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#1012834 - 18/09/2011 12:33 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: TranslucidusW]
Seira Offline
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Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
I think looking at the big picture is ok, and is some cases necessary…but looking for big answers in the same way, I’m not sure about that.

I'm sure there are probably big answers out there, but I think it really depends on how we go about it.


Edited by -Cosmic- (naz) (18/09/2011 12:35)

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#1014207 - 24/09/2011 23:26 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: TranslucidusW]
Seira Offline
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Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: TranslucidusW
What an excellent example of how we have no choice in 93% of human interaction - and 7% apparent (but illusory) choice.
Perhaps not quite. I was talking about what we do, as opposed to choices. It was about communication, and how we communicate, in all facets.

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#1015130 - 28/09/2011 08:56 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
Seira Offline
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Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
In fact I think it might be an idea to move back one step. This thread is not about finding universal truth, the inner self or solving worlds issues. It's dedicated to exploring the intially posted issues in a positive manner through using reflective, responsive listening, through communication smile .


Edited by -Cosmic- (naz) (28/09/2011 08:56)

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#1015444 - 28/09/2011 20:52 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
Sara B Offline
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Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
If we use only these physical non-verbal communication /cues - it is like making a judgement and this cannot always be trusted because we don't actually know why someone might be behaving as they do, right?! Sure someone that is fidgetty might be nervous, someone with arms folded might be feeling defensive etc but why is it that we always seem to think it has something to do with 'us' personally? Maybe the judgements made on the basis of non-verbal cues are actually way off.... For all we know that person may have heaps going on in their life at present or just 'communicate' differently than what 'we' percieve as being open or acceptable to 'us'.

But I agree, the non-verbal communication is potent and its something I want to improve on in myself (I feel that I need to work on how I project myself when communicating to others). My own personal insight into my own non-verbal communication is that I do not like staring /gazing into the eyes of others, though I have very strong ability to express myself using words... I feel it unnessecary at times to actually watch those 'physical' cues or reciprocate. In that one-on-one conversation I think that at times from the other persons perspective, when I don't appear to give the full attention maybe this is interpreted as rudeness or indifference. If I explore it further... it may have something to do with intimacy and the different ways we are 'intimate' (whether in conversation with a stranger, aquaintance, friend or otherwise) and how we learned to have intimacy in conversation. Conversation is actually quite an intimate thing.

Certainly I admit that I too, am influenced by the non-verbal communication and like everyone, interpret things according to my own learning (memories, experiences and assumptions). I feel however that it's a necessary part of being a human and necessary for survival. For example, someone acting dodgy at the bus stop or at the beach is best avoided. Someone displaying aggressively is doing so for a reason. Can tell a lot by the non-verbal and I feel it is best to heed it in the first instance. Sometimes can get it wrong too but there is always room for correction, to build on that initial assumption and learn more about another or oneself. Or not.

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#1015494 - 28/09/2011 21:51 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Sara B]
JEFF.H. Offline
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Registered: 26/12/2002
Posts: 2897
Loc: Oxenford
Having gone threw a major mental breakdown some 13 years ago I learnt a he'll of a lot and insight if you like to human beings mental behavior !
Open verbal even written communication is paramount to ones metal stability , moods and actions ! Verbal tones are critical ., written caps or
Bold equally as important as the content , along with a signature ...
I find myself being extra verbal and extra written committed now . If I'm thinking about anything I release it quickly , if it's defense I open very strongly , I very rarely attack and when I do it's polite . I find myself to do a lot more character observing now prior to making judgment , this is very difficult via written .
The key for me is to never bottle anything up , recently I have been having a massive amount of all of the above and it takes a mental toll , but one must remain strong and focused !

Cheers Jeff H

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#1015525 - 28/09/2011 23:15 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Sara B]
Seira Offline
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Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
If we use only these physical non-verbal communication /cues - it is like making a judgement and this cannot always be trusted because we don't actually know why someone might be behaving as they do, right?! Sure someone that is fidgetty might be nervous, someone with arms folded might be feeling defensive etc but why is it that we always seem to think it has something to do with 'us' personally?

There are probably many different ways of interpreting what is meant by the same posture. Someone could be thinking about something completely different to what we assume when in a given posture. One could suppose there are both “open” and “closed” postures, just like there “open” and “closed” questions, but perhaps that complicates the situation more. Sometimes postures may have nothing to with what a person is thinking.

Verbal communication in situations where there are difficulties interpreting body language could be helpful, however there are also features of verbal communication to be considered, namely tone of voice and how load we are. This is where getting some notes on active listening skills, even the basics, can be most helpful, as a guide.

Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
In that one-on-one conversation I think that at times from the other persons perspective, when I don't appear to give the full attention maybe this is interpreted as rudeness or indifference. If I explore it further... it may have something to do with intimacy and the different ways we are 'intimate' (whether in conversation with a stranger, aquaintance, friend or otherwise) and how we learned to have intimacy in conversation. Conversation is actually quite an intimate thing.

There are several basic levels of communication: withdrawal; chit-chat (cliché conversation); pastimes, reporting the facts; our own ideas, judgements, opinions, values, etc…all the way to intimacy. I would say, in this thread at least, that we could be on about the level of pastimes to perhaps our own ideas, judgements, opinions, values, etc. It is perhaps at our own risk to go much deeper unless we are confident we know others well, not just on a forum (this is where being on-the-ball may come into it).


Edited by -Cosmic- (naz) (28/09/2011 23:19)

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#1016092 - 30/09/2011 21:41 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
TranslucidusW Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/11/2003
Posts: 2663
Loc: Southern Adelaide
Remember - you (and I) are the imagination of yourself.

When imaginations come together we have imagined relationship.

The reality is however simply potential of all states yet unmanifest and has the quality of infinite, unconditional love - sometimes described as awareness.

This expresses via the Quadital (vs Digital) code that is DNA (CGA&T).

Ponder . . . .

There is nothing to do and no-where to go; we are, however, seemingly busy thinking/feeling otherwise within (trapped or otherwise) this expression.

Amazing (to an imagination).

I'll go quiet now.


Edited by TranslucidusW (30/09/2011 21:50)
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#1016099 - 30/09/2011 21:58 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: TranslucidusW]
TranslucidusW Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/11/2003
Posts: 2663
Loc: Southern Adelaide
-


Edited by TranslucidusW (30/09/2011 22:07)
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#1016473 - 01/10/2011 21:41 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: TranslucidusW]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Perhaps people got the wrong idea when I first started this thread. It is about discussing ways to look at many issues in society, and trying to understand what people go through from multiple perspectives on a daily basis, as well as through being on the receiving end…but with a focus not on peoples’ individual personal experience (which people can see a professional for), but rather on discussing and noticing ideas which can help us out in everyday conversation. And there are plenty of them.

I think “should statements” and “expectations” or “assumed knowledge” are topics worth looking at, for a start.

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#1016486 - 01/10/2011 22:25 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
Originally Posted By: -Cosmic- (naz)
Perhaps people got the wrong idea when I first started this thread. It is about discussing ways to look at many issues in society, and trying to understand what people go through from multiple perspectives on a daily basis, as well as through being on the receiving end…but with a focus not on peoples’ individual personal experience (which people can see a professional for), but rather on discussing and noticing ideas which can help us out in everyday conversation. And there are plenty of them.

I think “should statements” and “expectations” or “assumed knowledge” are topics worth looking at, for a start.


well good luck with that

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#1016487 - 01/10/2011 22:27 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Sara B]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
Expression is what I live for!

A world without expression, opinion, diversity, perception, discussion, hearing of others personal opinions & experiences would bore the crap out of me. A world of conformity, a focus on all this apparent 'nothingness' or requirement to discuss topics as per the agenda of another does not delight. Blah


Edited by chunkyluxtrax (01/10/2011 22:34)

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#1016568 - 02/10/2011 12:08 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Sara B]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
Originally Posted By: -Cosmic- (naz)
Perhaps people got the wrong idea when I first started this thread. It is about discussing ways to look at many issues in society, and trying to understand what people go through from multiple perspectives on a daily basis, as well as through being on the receiving end…but with a focus not on peoples’ individual personal ISSUES (which people can see a professional for), but rather on discussing and noticing ideas which can help us out in everyday conversation. And there are plenty of them.

I think “should statements” and “expectations” or “assumed knowledge” are topics worth looking at, for a start.


well good luck with that

I was referring to the expectation that we ought to talk about our personal mental health issues online without knowing the consequences of such actions on our own well being. And about giving people unqualified emotional/individual advice or opinions on what they should do in their life.

One the key principals of psychology is that you can help without interfering (let people find their own way)…and that isn’t easy, hence my reference to professional help.

I guess that's why this topic is so difficult.

I might as well leave it up to the individual on that, because I won’t be responding.


Edited by -Cosmic- (naz) (02/10/2011 12:11)

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#1016569 - 02/10/2011 12:21 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Sara B]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
Expression is what I live for!

expression, opinion, diversity, perception, discussion, hearing of others personal opinions & experiences

I encourage it! But I don't enourage giving advice!

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#1016606 - 02/10/2011 16:13 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
ok sure, I think I can see where you are coming from... You want the thread to be impersonal.


Edited by chunkyluxtrax (02/10/2011 16:23)
Edit Reason: Respect the fragile ecology of your delusions!

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#1016622 - 02/10/2011 17:47 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
so if we go back to the intended discussion with a focus on ideas which can help us out in everyday conversation and maybe therein achieve some 'real' communication...

It seems that there is a lot that can be observed and communicated through the non-verbal behaviour of others, as well as through spoken and written word.

It appears that
Quote:
“should statements” and “expectations” or “assumed knowledge”
exert some influence in everyday conversations. But how?

How do you contribute ideas and communicate effectively? How do you negotiate successful outcomes and influence decisions? How do you rationalise negative feedback or unrealistic demands that can never be satisfied? and then continue to communicate in a constructive manner at all?

Found this rather interesting page on different communication styles

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#1016623 - 02/10/2011 17:53 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Sara B]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
and this page with Behavioural style questionaire

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#1016636 - 02/10/2011 19:16 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Sara B]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
ok sure, I think I can see where you are coming from... You want the thread to be impersonal.

I am open to suggestions or alternatives.

However I can't guarantee this thread won’t get locked/closed. I am willing to listen.

Thank you for the links btw smile .

Perhaps I could help with simply describing a kind of basic communication strategy/plan.


Edited by -Cosmic- (naz) (02/10/2011 19:21)

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#1016642 - 02/10/2011 19:45 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
How do you contribute ideas and communicate effectively?

Consider the number of assumptions we make when communicating.

Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
How do you negotiate successful outcomes and influence decisions?

That might be the last step smile .

Originally Posted By: chunkyluxtrax
How do you rationalise negative feedback or unrealistic demands that can never be satisfied? and then continue to communicate in a constructive manner at all?

As human beings, we make mistakes, and learn from them smile . We can also learn how imperfect things are around us.

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#1018751 - 11/10/2011 17:46 Re: General Notes on Psychology! [Re: Seira]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7616
Loc: Adelaide Hills
The way things are going in western society atm, we almost need a new definition of what sustainability is. So much stuff is being wasted, luxury in some senses could be considered a standard of living, and quite possibly there’s a sense some don’t give a rats about whether our country is being run efficiently and effectively. Some of what’s left of “the environment” is making way for development; “economic growth” is a cliché…so perhaps there is something worth considering on the philosophy of impartial determinism, like this (no offence intended):

For billions of years, competition has proceeded blindly without the use of reason to deliberately improve one’s competitiveness. When we try to use reason to improve our competitiveness, the obstacle we face is that mindless and aimless competition tends to dominate over what requires organisation and coordination. This is the reason why the Internet contains so much redundant information, why shopping centres sell useless junk and why conversations consist of irrelevant ideas and emotions.

Every single thing and idea in this world is subject to this drive towards disorder. Simply trying to create something ordered or organised such as a better computer, a more productive factory or a new physics theory is most likely a step away from perfect order.

This is because by improving specifics without an overall strategy or intent to create perfection, the various entities that make up the world (people, corporations, schools) become so much more competitive, meaning more effort has to be made to keep up and survive. This means there’s less opportunity to make more global and fundamental changes. In this sense, every attempt to create order is suspect as a potential step towards making disorder more powerful.

The principle of micro-competition states that by default, those who act quickly, think without strategy, seize immediate advantages and assert themselves will always dominate over those who pursue overall strategy and seek high organisation. There’s no aspect of this world to which micro-competition doesn’t apply. If you’re not thinking about micro-competition, you’re nonetheless contributing to micro-competitive disorder and aimlessness.

Something to be learnt…


Edited by -Cosmic- (naz) (11/10/2011 17:52)

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