Given that this latest storm to travel through Queensland on the weekend and all the talk of tornadoes etc. I thought it might be worth trawling back through memory lane to past historical weather events such as the Brisbane Tornado of 4 November 1973.

So if you were old enough then where were you on that date and what did you see and remember? Have you any photos of the event?

I was on the Bruce Highway travelling down from Maroochydore. I distinctly remember towering great cumulo nimbus clouds. We could see one huge tower in front of us that had a tunnel punched clean through it and through that hole flashed a constant strobe of lightning. It was horrifying and brought up visions of what hell would look like from afar. Truly the wrath of God was being wrought was the thought that came to mind.

It wasn't long that we came to realise from the news reports that something very dramatic had happened. The next day saw many sad news reports of destruction. Getting around I saw a brick house that had been completely lifted off it's foundation and turned 90 degrees and laying down hill. Going through Toohey's forest one could see very large gum trees with their tops screwed off. The scars in that trail of destruction were there for all to see for years.

The memories are quite vivid and must have been imprinted via their shocking detail.

Feel free to add your own reminiscences from past weather events that may have never been recorded. We see nowadays that everyone has access to put down their thoughts on current events but we should perhaps give space to go back and fill in some of the anecdotal evidence of past events. Scanned slides and photos would also be excellent to add to the body of past evidence.

I remember driving with my dad along the Bruce Highway around Maryborough/Gympie somewhere as a kid and seeing a swathe cut through the trees, directly perpendicular to the highway, and right alongside a shed which had been untouched. Turns out the Bucca tornado day also spawned a smaller one in that area - I came through a few months (I think?) after the event and there was regrowth, but the scars were still clear for all to see. Memory is a bit foggy - 1994 I was 11 or so - but seeing that narrow, clear path cut through the trees has stuck with me for life!! I am amazed that people still don't believe that we get tornadoes in Australia...

Also saw the aftermath of "something" a few years ago out at Rathdowney, the day after the storms this time though - again, it appeared to be a swathe cut through the trees, quite a narrow damage path with debris in all directions. One house had lost its roof and I believe was damaged so badly it was condemned. Interesting!

ALSO back home in Bundy, on a totally clear, still day - again driving around town with my dad saw a horizontal 'tube' of cloud rolling across the sky. Not related to any weather, not with any surface wind - just a tube rolling across the sky!! I've never seen anything like it before or since, obviously some sort of atmospheric wave-type of disturbance, but it was quite incredible!

In 1973 we lived at Rainworth which is in the western suburbs of Brisbane and not far from were the tornado hit. The trees along the track path looked like they had been mowed with an extra large tractor having all their tops cleanly snapped off. We ere not able to gain access to the main area of destruction.

My father was working within the vicinity building a house when the tornadoes struck. That was when I 1st realised that Australia does get tornadoes.

Old footage of the storm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HURlLa1CFWo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HURlLa1CFWo&feature=player_detailpage

Amazingly in 1985 I was in the same area and got smashed with the famous Brisbane hail storm. By far the most horrendous storm I had been in. I lived at Bridgeman Downs,on the northside of Brisbane at the time, and it took me over 4 hours to get home. I had to weave my way through all the destruction, especially around Albion and surrounding areas. I had never seen hail that large before, wind that savage peaking at 184km/h at the Brisbane airport, a sky that colour or so frightening and everything else that the storm threw at us.

Extract from the Australia Government EMA data base

A major hailstorm struck mainly north-eastern and south-western Brisbane suburbs with cricket ball sized hail and wind gusts to 101 knots at Brisbane Airport. Damage figures included 2,000 houses unroofed (12 structurally unsafe) and a total of 20,000 buildings (incl houses) damaged. Also, 6,000 cars were badly damaged.

Main damage extended up to 12km with worst affected suburbs including Jamboree Heights, Coinda, Sherwood, Graceville, Windsor, Chermside, Banyo, Eagle Farm and Hamilton.

At Pumicestone Passage (Bribie Is), a tornado overturned a 26 foot cruiser and a woman drowned. The tornado also affected Redcliffe. Torrents of water poured through Brisbane city department stores as streets flooded to waist level and higher.

Sometimes when I hear people say that they hope for a massive storm, I cringe, I wonder if they really know what they are wishing for.

Cheers

Colin

Can you imagine what the soundings or radar would have looked like for the 1985 hailstorm. Wow...

Sounds incredible, here is the morning sounding-
http://soundings.bsch.com.au/skew-t.html...ndow=on&hodo=on

The 1973 tornado is still the most damaging tornado to affect an Australian capital city. A long track too... 51km and rated F3 (EF3). Several buildings were destroyed or required demolition afterwards.

Here's some video snaps Ben Quinn (Thanks to BSCH) created a few years back... click on the image for a full set of images:



And below there is a surface map:


On my Brisbane Storms site I used to have full reports on both of these incredible events, but I've been a bit lazy and haven't re-uploaded them. I will... sometime lol

I think Coltan and I grew up in the same area. I also lived at Rainworth in 1973. I can't remember the actual storm that spawned the tornado but can remember driving with Dad along Taringa Parade Taringa not long after the storm. From memory the tornado emerged from the bush beneath Mt Cootha near the intersection of Taringa Parade and Crag Road. I can remember seeing the extensive tree damage (trees snapped off 2-3 meters off the ground and some houses with roof damage.

In 1985 when the big hail storm came through I was on my honeymoon down the Gold Coast. From memory didn't get a storm there that day but finished up cleaning my new sister in laws yard up at Aspley the following week.

And I will start to show my age by saying one of the earliest memories is staying with my grandparents at Bardon one night when TC Dinah was very close to Fraser Island. They lived on an exposed ridge at Bardon and I can still remember the rain and wind belting onto their tin roof all night long.

If anyone has the opportunity to go to the John Oxley library in Brisbane you can read over any newspaper reports and photos from these events. Makes for an interesting day out.

I wasn't around for this on but apparently a tornado caused extensive damage in Yandina on the sunshine coast. The storm that produced the tornado was associated the nearby passing of a cyclone on Sunday the 27th of March 1955.
The article in the local newspaper at the time The Nambour Chronical is avalible online :- http://www.nambour-chronicle.com/
Article published on Fri the 1st of April 1955.
just need to register (for free) to view
goes into reasonable detail about which properties and where, were damaged.

I was only 9 in 1973 and lived here at Kalbar, but my Mum's sister and her family lived at Holland Park and I can vividly remember the first time we went to visit them after the tornado, driving from Salisbury up through Toohey forest and my Dad slowing down and pointing out to us the swathe of trees that had been demolished. It took many years for the evidence to disappear. By the time of the January 1985 storm I was working at the Mater hospital and working a late shift that day.

My abiding recollections of that storm were just how dark it got and the news that night showing the number of smashed factory windows on the northside. If memory serves me correctly it hit at about 4.30pm but it was like night outside. I can remember all the staff standing outside the casualty entrances and staring into the sky like a mob of frightened sheep.It was sooooooo black. When I next headed back home to Kalbar I dropped into Harrisville and saw the remains of one of the old town churches completely flattened by the storm. It was just a pile of timber!!!

I know I shouldn't wish for things like this to happen, but as a 20 year old, it's hard to imagine things like this have happened. Hailstorms of that magnitude, tornadoes across Brisbane, cyclones hitting south-east Queensland, fairly frequent river floods... If it weren't for the floods earlier this year, it would be almost incomprehensible.

These may be of interest to those who don't know much about the 1985 storm

http://www.northgateward.org/home_Page520.html

This is a more general discussion of severe Thunderstorm risks and rates in SEQ. Makes for interesting reading, especially the bit about the relationship with soi. There's a bit about the 1973 and 1985 storms. Interestingly, the pics of the giant hail in this report are from the Nov 1995 Bellbowrie storm. Ones just like those totalled my friends roof in that storm. He had some hail punch through tiles, through Gyprock ceiling and then smash stuff on his living room cabinet.

http://www.agso.gov.au/pdf/GA1489.pdf

What a fantastic and relevant reading. Do you have more like that?

Also some of the hail sizes here are just gob-smacking:

http://www.bsch.au.com/severewx/index.shtml

Mr Kim Flesser fleeced that straight off my website several years ago. I did try contacting him (for at least a link) back then... maybe I need to try that again.

Regarding the Bellbowrie storm... it was on the end of a week long sequence of daily severe thunderstorms in SEQ. Softballs fell at Bellbowrie... you're very correct Neil about the hail going through the tiles/gyprock etc. Even cars in tiled garages were damaged. I remember seeing the radar (on Ray Wilkie's weather) and it showed several (6-8 maybe) severe thunderstorms tracking W-E across SEQ. Most had golfball hail, but the Bellbowrie storm was the beast.

I can remember reading the official BOM report on the 1974 Brisbane flood but I wonder if they wrote official reports on events like the 1973 tornado or the 1985 hail storm, and would they be available anywhere still.

Interesting topic btw Phil thanks for starting it.

I wondered why it sounded like someone knowledgeable in severe weather had written it, rather than a councillor in local government who is unlikely a hardcore severe weather nut like some of us on here!

For me was the 2003 Currumbin hail storm. Ill never forget seeing holes bigger than my fist going through the roofs, gyprock and into people homes. It was so strange as I lived 600 meters away from an effected part (I just looked it up on google maps) and we had nothing but rain. Ill never forget the next day the scene of smashed cars everywhere, trees, houses and people in total shock.


Is the 1985 one that hit the live cricket on TV ? If so I only vaguely remember it on telly.


Loving this thread I must say good on you Phil for starting it

The one during the Gabba test was on the morning of the same day that the Bucca F4 tornado occured (Nov 29, 1992)...just adds to the aura of an already incredible day, doesn't it! Along with the F3 that went through the western suburbs of Maryborough too (a lot of people forget that part too)

This is a short youtube of the event, I know there are longer ones floating around somewhere.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkxHaPguq9Q

There's some discussion and weather data for the 29 Nov 1992 storms here

off topic I know- but is SEQ the most PRONE AREA in Australia for tornados? has any tornado been recorded in Sydney, Melbourne or other states?
Amazing how alot of people dont realise that we DO get them here in Australia- just not as common as in the US

I highly doubt SE Qld is the most prone area for tornadoes. Tornadoes have occurred in Sydney and I am quite confident they have occurred in/around Melbourne. In Australia, cold-season tornadoes in southern states seem to be far more common than warm-season tornadoes furthern north.

Horizon, is that the 26th of October 2003?

Well pointed there MC. I would argue that SEQ is not the most common location for tornadoes in Australia (it certainly isn't climatologically, though the relatively high population density may make it look like this), and alot of it has to do with the environmental dynamics.

Realistically a tornado can occur where-ever you have the right combination of ingredients, namely shear, instability, moisture. For tornadic storms, above all else you are looking at wind shear, particularly in the lowest kilometre in atmosphere: Its the one common ingredient in all tornadic storms, whether storm induced or present already. The second thing you are looking for is low LCL (lifted condensation level heights) preferably closer to the surface than 900 mb. So on just a first glance we have two difficulties in SEQ: relatively high LCLS (not enough elevation to counteract this), and a lack of occurences of strong 0-1km shear (to get this you really need a low level jet to get established, or at least an unusual synoptic gradient, case in point the Bucca tornado had a strong ECL cyclogenesis directly to its south, providing a favourable near surface wind field for tornadoes. In terms of instability, well not all tornadoes need this (case and point, the cool season tornadoes with CAPE sub 200 J/kg), though it is usually compensated for by the strength of the shear (Think of CAPE and Shear as a sort of balancing act for organised storms). The major problem we have in Aus is the lack of discrete storms for long enough for tornadic processes to take hold. On the big potential days we too often see things pop early, or get messy, which intereferes with the development of the SCs needed for tornadic processes (and funnily enough when storms are discrete its usually when we see the tornadoes reported)

I would probably suggest in terms of peak warm season tornadic potential in Australia that most of it lies further south than QLD, around the northern rivers (particularly on the slopes of the divide), along the inland of the divide through the Casino, Tamworth, Orange and Bathurst area, into the Goulburn Valley, and then sweeping along the northern edge of the divide towards Bendigo and Horsham in Victoria. So why these locations? Quite often they have some elevation (relative lowering of the LCL), they also quite often get the strong shearing environments necessary (partially thanks to strong synoptic systems, or cyclogenesis beginning in eastern South Aus), certainly in the deep layer shear and less commonly the surface (The general trend of QLD storms to HP, particularly as the season progresses is a good example of too much energy and not enough shear), and with NE flow you also get enough moisture that the instability is realised in terms of reasonable CAPE. Cool season tornadoes generally fall more in the landfalling of strong fronts, so think SW WA (and in terms of tornadoes per unit area this is probably one of our highest incidences), eastern SA, Western and Central Vic (the later arises because of the divide, you get a partial blocking with a Northerly flow overlain by SWs at altitude, and thus great turning).

While I am sure some might disagree, I have to acknowledge that given the strong instability environments seen in SE QLD/ N Rivers, the potential for high end tornadoes is probably somewhat more likely (but these are relatively rare events), especially given the higher population density (more targets to hit), when the shear environments do occur (Example, the Gunnedah storm last year, classic shear environment for tornadic storms on that day). That being said when the areas north of the divide in Vic and into Sthern NSW get the instability, the stronger shear has yielded up to F3s in the past (Bendigo has been hit 3 times in the past 12 years, and numerous locations in this area have appreciable tornadoes in the past).

It is very concerning to me the lack of attention paid to the threat posed by tornadoes in Australia, but unfortunately, like the Sydney hailstorm of 1999, people will have to suffer (and perhaps even die) before the BOM and bureaucrats take the issue seriously. One only need consider the weak tornadic storms affecting both Sydney and Brisbane in the past to see that. And thats before we consider the near misses of significant towns inland.

Please keep posting past events, there is some really interesting material to read being built up.

This thread is turning out very interesting. Speaking of hailstorms with large hail Toowoomba should not be forgotten. The range side of the city got absolutely smashed with massive hail and torrential rain. This was around 1975 I think from memory. I'm have been in Toowoomba for about 30 years and have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence from those who were affected by the storm. Massive hailstones that were jagged to boot would fall from the sky at a reasonably flat angle driven by down bursts. They would hit the ground, bounce clean over a house, smash the roof next door and then through the ceiling and smash furniture.

A householder told me of a hail stone as big as a chair he observed smashing into the ground. It was an agglomeration of many large hailstones all stuck together and it smashed apart as it hit the ground. Anecdotal I know and there is no scientific or firm evidence for this to happen. Is it beyond the realms of possibility? I don't know. I wasn't there, I don't have any reason to doubt what this person told me though.

There was a Mercedes Benz driving up the range and it was caught in the storm. The hail beat the bonnet down over the motor and also beat the hood down over the cowering occupants.

Oh yes, back on Tornadoes, I have a friend who used to work for the county council around Grafton. He describes scenes in the country of gargantuan gum trees twisted off. No one living in the area though so no building destruction or loss of life. We are a country where more people are moving into previously uninhabited areas so cautionary tales of severe weather possibilities through these types of threads may be worthwhile.

The supercell storm on Australia Day 2007 in Dalby was unbelievable. The rain wasn't just horizontal is was actually coming back up on a slight angle. Straight in under all the windows. My OH and son had gone to the tip and while they were gone this storm just hit out of nowhwere. My chairs on the back patio were blown down the stairs, under the house and right along the length of the house and into the Dog Kennel/Cage. I went downstairs to save something and the wind change direction a full 90 degrees and slammed into the back of the house rather than the side. I watched it change direction and a white wall of water and debris headed straight for me. Thankfully we have one small room right in the middle under our house and I was able to duck behind the wall. Then I realised the back door was open and all that rain was in my house. I pushed through the wind/rain and up the stairs and managed to get the back door shut. The rain had not only come in the patio, but through the back door, right through the kitchen and had splattered the back wall of the kitchen and a bit into the dining room! We have an old Queenslander and our rooms aren't small. It was amazing. I used nearly ever towel in the house to mop up the dining room where the inital part of the storm had pushed the rain in under the roof. We had a tree down out the front that ripped the power out of our house.

There's talk there was a tornado as well, a path of destruction could be followed by this storm. It had picked up large 6 bay sheds and screwed them into balls and deposited them several blocks away. It also knocked a coal train of the tracks!

This is before it actually got bad, once it got bad I had to go to the other side of the house and throw towels down in the dining room.


My front yard. The boys hardly felt the storm on the other side of Dalby.

NICE photos Lani- did the wind actually blow those train cars over??? Heck they are indeed heavy!

SE QLD and NE NSW is quite an interesting place for storms - historically it has a very high incidence of severe thunderstorms, and realistically probably has more severe thunderstorms per sq km than most other places around the world (even including Tornado Alley!)

Historically there's some interesting (and scary) reports of storms - in the early 1900s it appears that there was a very high incidence of strong cold pools that moved into the region (in particular the 1920s and 1930s). Reports of cattle frozen to death from 6-8 foot hail drifts can only be stretched so far. Even reports of haildrifts lasting 1-2 weeks in summer (especially on the Granite Belt). Perhaps more scary was a report of a tornado that moved through south of Brisbane (now known as Logan/Beenleigh) where the report said "It was difficult to determine that a house ever existed there." Obviously building standards are different now (some might argue worse though!) But no doubt if that happened today it'd be a devastating impact.

While SE QLD/NE NSW has a very high incidence of severe storms, it does appear that tornadoes probably occur in moderate frequency (compared to the remainder of the country). The most likely attribute to severe thunderstorm activity in the area seems to be high CAPE and moderate to strong mid level shear days. These provide strong (even violent) HP supercells, but tend not to be big tornado producers. This is evidenced by 1985, 185km/h wind gust at the AP, 2006, 196km/h wind gust at Double Island Point, and 2008, The Gap Storm (Doppler indicated 170km/h wind gusts). So the biggest and most common threat would be a more widespread microburst scenario. The Gap Storm was relatively short lived and really only affected a couple of suburbs very badly (compared to the 1985 storm which had a very wide damage path).

However - strong and violent tornadoes have occurred in the region, and no doubt that will happen again one day too. I guess it comes down to who do you believe? Afterall, myself and other mets warned that Wivenhoe hasn't flood proofed Brisbane and everyone thought it was "hype and rubbish" and well, look what happened.

Perhaps one of the scariest things is that Brisbane wind codes are still sub-par. When I built my carport and shed, I had the option of getting a W33 rating for both! (Max wind gust 117km/h). I opt'ed for the extra expense of a strong wind rating though. This type of thing is absolutely ludicrous - and I'm not sure if that's the case for habitable dwellings too.

AC

Unfortunately Anthony it is. If you were to see how most houses are constructed today you would cringe. As a builder I always went over board with the tie down using rods and extra strapping than what was called for, I basically went up to the next wind rating, but honestly even that is not enough.

I strongly believe that each house should be constructed with a storm shelter/safe room, basically a standing bunker, or if location allows for it underground or built into the embankment. It is very easy to turn a laundry or a store room into such while constructing. I believe this is the approach that was taken in Darwin after cyclone Tracey.

We are not prepared for the real big storms nor for the day when a cyclone does hit Brisbane, we spend thousands and thousands on making houses more energy efficient and no mandatory updates for making them safe from storms or fire.

I wont say any more because it will take every thing off topic.

That sounds like there must have been more than just one or two cases of hail far beyond anything I've ever heard of in the last 20 odd years.

How would such a storm occur? My guess is that it would need be so much the intensity of the storm, but it would have to be a long lived hail storm that did not move. Something like a 100+mm rain event, but hail instead and then concentrated by winds against an obstacle to reach more than 10 times the average depth of hail.

But slow moving requires low shear making it hard to get a decent hail storm? Perhaps low level and mid level winds from the opposite directions to make enough shear for a persistent hail storm, and balanced just right to produce a near stationary storm?

Or could a train effect like was so evident in January's flood somehow set up with hail as well as rain?

Or perhaps a storm near the center of a strong upper level low with plenty of cold air, instability and vorticity?

Anthony - I've always said that Brisbane will suffer another 1971 type event and 2011 proved just that - sadly I think this summer we'll probably see more of the same ..

A bit of a plug I guess... a new website for disaster preparedness has been launched... former severe weather head of the BoM Jeff Calaghan has had a lot to do with it. It has a dodgy name "Harden Up" but it looks okay so far. http://hardenup.org

Jeff's very good severe thunderstorm archive is here:

http://hardenup.org/umbraco/customContent/media/1159_SevereThunderstorms_1850-2007.pdf

Hey All,

AC, Coltan....On the issue of wind ratings for houses in SEQ. We had to be W41 here because we are in a rural area with little protection from other buildings/structures. Not sure how much difference that makes if you're in the thick of a 150km/hr microburst but just thought I'd pass that on.
Mike, you are asking the right person (AC) about how such an event (a hailstorm producing massive longlasting drifts) would be possible from a meteorological point of view.....Not my area of expertise....but I am interested in the history. It would seem from the list of hail storms at the bottom of this page on bsch that there is plenty of evidence that such events do occasionally occur

http://www.bsch.au.com/severewx/index.shtml

Of course, there may have been a bit of retrospective hail stone enlargement attached to some of these reports. But when you look at the pics in the link below from the May 21, 2005 Brisbane storm and see the scale of the drifts in low-lying streets (Milton I think) then it is not hard to imagine drifts metres deep in runoff gullies in steeper rural areas. The key to this is not so much the hail piling up against an obstacle such as a buliding, although this clearly happens as well, but rain washing vast amounts of hail into collectives. Once collected in a big block it takes a long time to melt...that part is just physics of course.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=226210&langid=6

In our district at least there was a very well documented storm of this type in Nov 1940. Some excerpts from "The Fassifern Story" by C.K.Pfeffer......"Many cattle died, for example W.L.Niebling, then farming in Charlwood had seventeen of his herd of 50 milking cows killed"....."Eels and turtles in the dams were frozen stiff-all were dead. 'Icebergs', that is hail mixed with debris, floated in the dams for days out in the summer sunshine. Harry Venz had a unique problem on his Charlwood farm where hail mixed with rubbish was deposited 7 feet deep in a gully under shade trees. This took 6 weeks to melt, during which time he had to rescue several cows bogged in the ice. A couple of pics from Boonah itself

Hey Briswx,

Firstly, sorry I didn't acknowledge your writing of the terrific article from the councillors's website about the 1985 storm. If I'd known he stole it would I never have given him free publicity. Secondly, thanks for the above link. It provides much more detail of our storm history than the bsch link. Thirdly, I'm with you on the "harden up" bit. I understand what they are trying to do and am supportive of their aim to encourage individuals and communities to take responsibility for their own welfare when there is bad weather about. Our good friend Phil Box, who started this thread is living proof of the value of a community (in his case Murphy's creek) taking the initiative and leading the way (for government sponsored organisations) in recovering from one disaster and preparing for the next. However, I'm not sure that the folk of Grantham or Goodna who are still living under canvas would be entirely pleased about being told to "harden up" at this stage. A wee bit insensitive I think.

Thank you Buster truly extrordinary!

well ive gotta say what a fantastic forum subect...some extrodinary storys,facts and photos in here ...and thanks brizwx despite the name what an great thunderstorm archive for this area really shows u how bad things have been in the past..and will be in the future..my biggest concern is that S.E.Q is much more populated then it was back then and the chances of these tornadic supercell storms hitting populated areas has dramatically increased..reading that archive really makes me think weve been dodgeing alot of bullets... and despite the floods and the gap storm and probably a few other events i think weve been getting off rather lightly...BUT FOR HOW MUCH LONGER IS THE QUESTION ?

On that note
Yes I can definitively say that is possible.
The cattle would have headed for cover down a ravine under a tree and probably the ice would have accumulated at the bottom of the ravine.
I was actually in that Coronation drive storm, we were all going out to a company dinner.
When we turned from the office in Coorparoo and headed towards the old Pacific highway to get to the City, the afternoon was late but you see the anger in the Black Gust front that greeted us lightning every-where.
We we off to the Regatta
My Mate Bob who left coorparoo 5 minutes later and a fair way behind me called and asked if was I was experiencing Hail, it was on the radio as I said no as I was just approching Hale street, but I could se the traffic slowing and a white road ahead, the next thing I could not talk on the car phone as the noise from the hail was so loud.

The Ice was so thick driving down coronation drive that we were like bulldozers pushing ice in front of the car and the wave of ice slurry came out from the front of the car exactly like a boat bow wave, every wipe of the windsceen wipers were wiping off incredible ammounts of ice and within 30 seconds my bonnet was a mass of small icy hail, yet NOT one dent, just millions of small pea size hail stones, how I never had an accident I will never know because the road became super slippery and a few cars came sideways down the road at me and the same happened to me.
The hail stopped and a bloke was riding his bike home, he had to ride on the ice and went straight over a drainage gutter where the ice was weaker and his front wheel dived under the ice, he went arse over tit straight into an Ice slurry, we pissed ourselves but it wasn't funny
we were all dressed in short sleeves and sat and froze the whole night at dinner, every-one was in dis-belief at what they had witnessed and that dominated the discussion, the hail was piled up all around the regatta where-ever there was a garden.
Because it was a warm sultry day the mist from the ice formed a weird wintery haze.
Incredible to have witnessed that and double that at the right place at the right time would have been deadly serious massive ice flows would have occured
Look at hale street 2 dys later still have ice in the shade..
Cheers
Mark

Thanks for starting this thread Phil Box - what a great subject. All the posts so far have been very informative and I'm looking forward to reading many more accounts of the might of mother nature! I'm hoping here that I can get an explanation of a storm I experienced a few years ago. Unfortunately I can't remember exactly what year it was, probably 2003 or 2004. It was a Sunday in mid-December. We were down at Rainbow Bay Coolangatta early in the morning and we saw the thickest fog I've ever seen out over the water. You couldn't see swimmers more than 20 metres out. Around mid-morning the fog cleared. Early in the afternoon a huge storm blew up from the south (I estimate the winds to have been around 70-80kph) and dumped a fair bit of hail and rain. We all sheltered under the surf club building, protected from the S/SE winds. After 10 mins or so the storm seemed to be abating, when all of a sudden winds starting blowing from the north (totally the opposite direction) and within a few minutes we were being pummeled by winds that I estimate would have been around 100-120kph. At least 4 trees were fully uprooted in the Snapper Rocks carpark and the glass doors up in the surf club were blown in and a few people cut with flying glass. A friend of mine had to shelter lying under their 4WD because they couldn't open the doors due to the wind. After leaving we saw guttering hanging from telegraph wires, awnings/pergolas twisted, and large branches and debris everywhere through Rainbow Bay (quite a small area) but once we rounded Kirra Point it looked like it had only rained. Whatever we experienced was very intense but quite contained. The wind gusts we experienced wouldn't have been experienced at Coolangatta airport which probably explains why there doesn't seem to have been any record of this event. Could this have been a tornado or is there another sort of phenomena that it could have been? Thanks in advance for any explanation!

Sounds like you copped the back end of a microburst Dusty, by that explanation - I know the surf club, that would've been terrifying!! Hope anyone still in the water was ok..!!


That's the tornado I referred to in my first post - cheers Dave!

Ahh, no worries lol...had no idea that was the one in your post!

Sure was mate, I just wish I knew of this forum during the decade I did storm insurance work. The amount of pictures and documentation of the storm damage here on the GC would of been interesting

Just on those hail drifts that last for ages. I had an old fella relate a story of a huge storm that hit Toowoomba back in the thirties or something. He told me that he was at school and the kids were sent home at midday because of this massive great looming storm. It hit at something like 4 in the arvo. The amount of hail that came down was immense. He said that drifts of hail were washed down hill at Mt. Lofty on the northern side of Toowoomba where there were a lot of cow paddocks still at the time and the drifts came up against the railway embankment.

Those drifts were still there three months later. The shredded grass and leaves piled up and mixed in with the hail was an effective insulator it seems and the boys would dig down into the piles of detritus to find still cold hail and leaf layers.

Seeing the photos above in this thread of the great hail drifts leads me to believe that the report from this old bloke can somewhat be believed. I really must talk to Peter Cullen the local historian, he'll have the facts from old newspapers at his fingertips.


I personally was in a hail storm which hit Acacia Ridge in about 1967/68 I think from memory. The hail was the size of cricket balls/softballs. My stupid big brother ran out into the yard and got hit by one as he was trying to collect them. Pretty awesome watching them smash windows. I love storms.

Hey AC, in answer to your question, it really depends on the structure and the surrounding environment. As a rule of thumb for Brisbane for Q100 winds; houses are 48m/s and this increases up to 63m/s for structures with disaster functions.

Great topic

Thanks Sean!

In response to some other questions...ie what type of environment would create huge hail drifts? I think a few have already mentioned the May 19, 2005 hailstorm that went through inner NW of Brisbane and dumping huge amounts of hail (some of it remained for nearly a week!) There's two factors at work here...

First you need a strong upper cold pool to bring lots of hail (this means that if the FZL (freezing level) is right that most of the precipitation will fall as hail rather than rain). Further to this, being under a cold pool would tend to mean that upper level winds are weaker, allowing for slow moving showers and storms. Secondly - you'd also need some rain so that the hail gets washed into gullies and valleys...this would allow for the hail to accumulate. The same way that hail drifts tend to collect on the sides of the roads and be present for many hours (sometimes the next day) after.

Still - it would indeed be an incredible site.

Judging by the historical reports, it would seem that perhaps rogue cold pools were once upon a time, more common for the region. This would also suggest why there seemed to be more significant storms in our history rather tha the last 10-20 years. Even the last 10-12 years has seen a fairly marked decrease in storms that make it to the coast compared to the 1990s. Naturally we hear more about it now due to greater suburb expansion, higher population and more media interest.

Growing up it wouldn't be unusual to hear about storms affecting Sydney to Bundaberg on the news...last system to do anything like that must have been possibly 2004? Even then it wasn't the classic style.

AC

I know it isn't Australian but just had to post this link because it's relevant and quite amazing. Doesn't look too interesting to start with but from the 2 minute mark you'll see why I posted it. A storm with hail falls of this nature would, in hillier country, create exactly the sort of massive long-lasting drifts that we've been talking about in this thread. I don't for a moment doubt that some time in our history in SEQ there have been storms of this type.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB7SuxtSpSU

Nice vid link buster. That reminds me of a hailstorm on the southern edge of Toowoomba in the early nineties from memory. I was called out to a house on a farm at Hodgsonvale. I am a roofing plumber as well as all the other things that I do. Anyway the land owner called me to have a look at his house roof and he related the story of what had happened just before Christmas.

A hail storm had come over from the south west as is the norm for this area but this time it was different. It stalled over his property. It hailed for about 20 minutes then the storm more or less floated up to sit over the range which is only about a k away. Then it floated back and hovered over his property again. Then it headed back where it came from only to turn back and hover over his property once again. This occurred over a period of about 2 hours.

The hail built up on his roof to about three feet deep which resulted in the beams sagging from the great weight and the roof bellied down and there was so much hail on the roof that any melting and rain run off could not get away. They had an immense flood inside their house. As they were on the side of a hill they looked out and could see no ground, the whole side of the hill was in flood. Great stones were moved down their small gully. The stones had come from far up stream and they now have a rocky bottomed gully where none had existed before. He counted 27 dead crows under one tree.

That storm only really affected one property. Very peculiar storm too. Something out of the twilight zone. Strange things happen some times with the weather. I would often get called out to check out damaged roofs from hail storms and nothing much surprises me any more except that nature continually finds new and innovative ways to cause havoc or at least to come up with ways to amaze us.

Oh yes, I did see one roof where a hail stone completely punched through the roofing iron. Admittedly it was fairly thin old soft 26 gauge soft iron. It left this beautifully formed hole and frog flap. I was amazed. Then there was the hail storm that came through the Helidon area about 5 or 6 years ago which battered all the roofs with cricket ball to soft ball sized hail. That kept us in work for about 8 months off and on. Surprising to see trimdeck profile iron ribs completely reversed from being punched down by a hail stone. Horses got knocked out and a friend of mines kid got bashed in the head by a falling lump of ice.

Thankyou so much Phil for starting this thread and to all who have input there stories and information.

I was a little girl during the severe hail storm in Brisbane in 85 living in the Western suburbs. I remember being terrified during it but had an amazing time playing with the hail for hours afterwards, hopping in the baby bath and using it like a sled. I know a little bit off topic but I also vaguely remember a lot of power outages due to strikes at around that time not to sure as I was only 7 at the time.

But my more recent severe storm was when a tornado came through Nanango. It went through my neighbors yard but missed mine and I missed it being on the other side of town visiting a friend. I know a house a few blocks from mine had their stairs twisted off a lot if tree damage. Wrought iron outdoor furniture outside cafe's were tossed down the street like pieces of paper but damaging cars in their path.

Even though there is so many different stories of damage in all sorts of ways, I like all of you are fascinated with the power of mother nature.

The 1973 Brisbane Tornado

I was 12 back then and living at Coorparoo. I had already developed an intense interest in thunderstorms, and had my own ideas back then (as a kid) about how they moved etc in SEQ. The day didn't seem that extraordinary. It was fairly warm and clear for most of the day. At about 4.00 PM my dad and I drove to my aunts place at Holland Park when I first noticed some towers to the west with cirrus flowing from the tops. But it looked all wrong for any action - the cirrus was flowing to the SE of the towers, so given everything "I knew" about how storms moved in SE Qld, the storms were moving north, and would stay to the west, so "no storms for us today" I thought.

But as it turned out, the storms were moving from the north west. By about 5.00pm we were back home at Coorparoo (with a reasonable view of the west). Storms began developing closer, but the sky was basically "filling up" with cirrus, so I was thinking there's storms around, but we're probably not going to get much. But a "small storm" popped up to our west. It moved along our western horrizon. It was unusual in that it was very black, and "embedded" in the cirrus that by now was begining glow orange in the setting sun. This small storm had continuous intense lightning popping out all around it. I remember thinking "I wish we were going to get that storm". In the meantime mid level cloud had begun moving in. The cloud was "undulating" above us (thinking back there may have areas of rotation in this cloud) and there was an intensely green (the greenest cloud I've ever seen) patch about as big as two outstretched hand spans directly above our house at Coorparoo.

So, you've got a sky full of twilight lit cirrus, dark undulating midlevel cloud moving in, a patch of green cloud above the house (literally as green as grass - almost irridescent), and a small black storm screaming south along the western horrizon with the some of most intense lighting I've ever seen.

It wasn't until years later that I realised that "small black storm" was actually the funnel!

We actually didn't get much of a storm that night. A roll cloud passed over (by then it was dark), and we had a bit of a gust and some light rain. The sky cleared to a starry night, and I watched the line of very lightning active storms pass out to sea.

We did loose power - my uncle (who lived at Inala) called to see if we were OK after the storm. At the time we thought "what storm" as we didn't get much at all. Apparently their area in Inala they had quite a bit of wind and hail.

A week later we drove to our uncles place passing Tooheys forest - couldn't believe the devastation. You can still see eveidence of the damage in the bush to this day. I remember tree damage at Garden City shopping centre.

Certainly a day I'll always remember.

Some people may be aware of this website which has digitised newspaper reports up until about 1954. I just did a quick search on Brisbane storms and came up with this classic here from 21/12/1934. Had the lot - apparently high winds at Oxley - fireballs at New Farm! Picture of someone's chase vehicle there as well I see. Written in an old style of course but interesting needless to say.You can search a number of newspapers throughout Australia by going to the home page: http://trove.nla.gov.au/

The site takes a bit of getting used to but you can view the whole page or just particular articles.

Also handy if you are doing a family history. I dare you not to get side tracked reading other articles.

That digital newspaper report site is great, I didn't know it existed!

I did a quick search for "tornado Brisbane" and I must admit I had a laugh at the first story which spoke of "tornado hurled 2 cows through the air" Now we know where the true inspiration of a famous scene in Twister comes from!!

On a more serious note it's going to be an interesting read, going through finding stories.

AC

That cow story is an absolute classic, love the look on the cows face....
Interesting there is no mention of "storm", wonder if that was a simply a strong dust devil.
The only note of cause was:-
"A Weather Bureau official said last night that the
'freak' tornado could have been caused by local conditions allied with yesterday's strong south-east winds."
Certianly a wealth of info on that Newspaper site.

I started a thread a while ago which has some of the more significant storms or storm days in recent history. There are quite a few events from NE NSW/SE Qld mentioned-

http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthreads.php/topics/997355/1

The 26th of October 2003 has to be my pick for the most significant storm day in the last 10 years for NE NSW/SE Qld. I realise this is quite subjective. First, I would have to define what I mean by "significant;" hail size, property damage, atmospheric parameters etc. Though in my opinion, to have several seperate storms produce extremely large hail and have a confirmed tornado in a single day is quite amazing.

Spotted an old photo in Rudd's Pub at Nobby on the Darling downs. The caption was "9 inches in 20 minutes, a cloudburst in Nobby in 1939.". Egads, that is a lot of rain. Lots of water all over the street and Nobby is on top of a hill.

Ive often wondered about the accuracy of that one. Regardless I would have loved to have been there! Heres a link to all the australian rainfall records, which nobby features, as well as the world records.
http://www.bom.gov.au/water/designRainfalls/rainfallEvents/ausRecordRainfall.shtml

This weeks CM video "the way we were" is about an ECL in 1950. Very interesting with damage photos of cooparoo, stones crn, holland park. goes on to say the system went south and army headed to kempsey to help assist flood victims.

http://video.couriermail.com.au/2168525635/The-Way-We-Were-Wild-Weather

Check out this website for amazing historical data and even more amazing photo's. I found it while perusing the soi archives for over 150 years. Very interesting to look at the values and when some of the major floods occured.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/7d12b0f6763c78caca257061001cc588/fecb2ab6de16171eca2570de0005871b!OpenDocument

Phenomenal rainfall - 1,411 millimetres (mm) in three days at Mackay - Could you imagine what THAT much rain would do. Whew.

I found this interesting too:
Floods - Brisbane - January 1974

Following a very wet 1973, the month of January 1974 featured probably the biggest continent-wide drenching since European settlement, with vast areas of the country inundated. In Brisbane, preceding heavy rain had already produced some flooding when, on 24 January, Cyclone Wanda came ashore north of the city. Wanda inflicted relatively little wind damage, but produced record rains over the Australia Day weekend. In three days, Brisbane received 580 mm, with much higher falls over river catchments near the city (1,300 mm in five days at Mt Glorious). Many houses bordering rivers and creeks were washed away as rivers rose to their highest levels since the disastrous 1893 floods. The rising waters trapped people in homes and offices causing many heroic rescue attempts but unfortunately 14 people died.

1300mm, no wonder Brisbane flooded!

when was this tornado in Nanango? I recall a big storm hitting there a few years ago

1400mm in three days, I could only imagine if Kingaroy got that in three days.

My memory is a bit vague but I'm pretty sure 2004/05.

Ah yes now I remember it, we got the tail end of it here in Kingaroy, I wonder what rating the twister was given? it certainly gave Nanango a fair battering.

Snow In Brisbane.

I noticed an old post by member "Merry Weather" regarding "snow in Brisbane" during a cold burst in 1984.

http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=105579

I was working in the Valley at the time. A friend and myself were always trying to out do ourselves with "silly things to do". One thing we did on that day was turn up for work in only shorts and t-shirts. Of course we froze all day - especially when we went out and ate lunch in what was an unused school play ground.

The day was windy, and at lunch time there were many low "fuzzy" CB's all around, though there were lengthy sunny spells (mind you, with the winds things were moving fairly fast). While we were sitting having lunch, I noticed what I thought was ash "floating" around in the turbulent air. I was so convinced that they were ash particles, I looked around for "the smoke plume". There was no smoke plume - only the low CB's. I held my hand out, and the "particles" each instantly turned to a drop of water on my hand.

It was snowing!

Out of curiosity, I have been trying to find the BoM sounding data for the January 1985 storm from http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html

However, it does not make sense to me as the calculated LI seems too low (-0.21). Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

http://weather.uwyo.edu/cgi-bin/sounding?region=pac&TYPE=TEXT%3ALIST&YEAR=1985&MONTH=01&FROM=1800&TO=1812&STNM=94578

94578 YBBN Brisbane Airport Aero Observations at 00Z 18 Jan 1985
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRES HGHT TEMP DWPT RELH MIXR DRCT SKNT THTA THTE THTV
hPa m C C % g/kg deg knot K K K
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1009.0 5 27.0 20.0 66 14.81 299.4 342.9 302.0
1000.0 82 26.0 19.0 65 14.03 299.1 340.3 301.7
944.0 585 19.2 16.9 87 13.00 297.2 335.0 299.5
941.4 609 19.1 16.8 87 12.98 60 2 297.3 335.1 299.6
908.5 914 17.3 16.0 92 12.78 350 6 298.5 335.9 300.8
903.0 966 17.0 15.9 93 12.74 343 6 298.7 336.0 301.0
856.0 1425 19.4 11.4 60 9.98 283 10 305.8 336.1 307.7
850.0 1486 19.0 11.0 60 9.79 275 10 306.0 335.8 307.8
787.7 2133 14.6 7.9 64 8.57 240 14 308.1 334.4 309.7
755.0 2493 12.2 6.2 67 7.94 240 11 309.2 333.8 310.7
700.0 3124 9.0 -2.0 46 4.74 240 6 312.4 327.6 313.3
676.0 3412 7.0 -5.0 42 3.92 237 7 313.3 326.1 314.1
655.9 3657 4.8 -5.5 47 3.90 235 8 313.6 326.3 314.3
608.3 4267 -0.6 -6.6 64 3.86 235 16 314.1 326.7 314.9
596.0 4432 -2.1 -6.9 70 3.84 239 16 314.2 326.8 315.0
573.0 4746 -1.3 -20.3 22 1.34 246 17 318.7 323.4 319.0
539.0 5231 -4.5 -14.5 46 2.32 257 17 320.5 328.5 321.0
518.0 5544 -5.9 -25.9 19 0.90 264 18 322.5 325.8 322.7
500.0 5820 -7.7 -28.7 17 0.72 270 18 323.6 326.3 323.7
471.0 6280 -10.9 -32.9 14 0.51 265 21 325.2 327.1 325.3
454.0 6561 -12.7 -34.7 14 0.45 261 23 326.4 328.1 326.5
400.0 7510 -20.1 -50.1 5 0.10 250 30 328.8 329.2 328.8
324.0 9033 -33.3 -63.3 3 0.02 228 42 331.0 331.1 331.0
300.0 9570 -37.1 -67.1 3 0.02 220 46 333.0 333.0 333.0
292.0 9753 -38.5 -68.5 3 0.01 220 46 333.6 333.7 333.6
250.0 10800 -46.3 -76.3 2 0.00 225 38 337.1 337.1 337.1
219.0 11669 -52.5 -82.5 2 0.00 246 58 340.5 340.5 340.5
205.0 12099 -50.1 -80.1 2 0.00 256 68 350.8 350.8 350.8
200.0 12260 -50.9 -80.9 2 0.00 260 72 352.0 352.0 352.0
192.7 12496 -52.5 260 72 353.2 353.2
150.0 14090 -63.1 270 92 361.2 361.2
144.3 14325 -64.2 270 92 363.2 363.2
124.0 15244 -68.7 267 73 371.2 371.2
111.9 15849 -72.2 265 60 375.7 375.7
104.0 16281 -74.7 262 55 378.9 378.9
100.0 16510 -72.7 260 52 387.0 387.0

Station information and sounding indices
Station identifier: YBBN
Station number: 94578
Observation time: 850118/0000
Station latitude: -27.37
Station longitude: 153.13
Station elevation: 5.0
Showalter index: 0.98
Lifted index: -0.21
LIFT computed using virtual temperature: -0.80
SWEAT index: 170.01
K index: 26.70
Cross totals index: 18.70
Vertical totals index: 26.70
Totals totals index: 45.40
Convective Available Potential Energy: 365.83
CAPE using virtual temperature: 462.44
Convective Inhibition: -221.49
CINS using virtual temperature: -173.60
Equilibrum Level: 245.45
Equilibrum Level using virtual temperature: 244.88
Level of Free Convection: 647.68
LFCT using virtual temperature: 663.14
Temp [K] of the Lifted Condensation Level: 290.24
Pres [hPa] of the Lifted Condensation Level: 906.71
Mean mixed layer potential temperature: 298.48
Mean mixed layer mixing ratio: 13.72
1000 hPa to 500 hPa thickness: 5738.00
Precipitable water [mm] for entire sounding: 39.04

The temperature is plotted for the current time (10am), rather than the time of maximum heating. Brisbane CBD recorded a maximum of 31C on that day, gives CAPE of 1400-1500, Amberley recorded a maximum of 33C giving CAPE of 2000. But this doesn't take into account the cooling of the upper trough (a quick glance of the following day sounding shows a fair bit of cooling). Plotting Jan 18 max values presents CAPE knocking 3000 on the following day - meaning that CAPE was probably somewhere between 2000 and 2500 on the day.

Interestingly the SE'ly airmass is quite cool/moist (yet the DPs are low) on Jan 19. Seems like there was a strong southerly change at work on this day - which would make sense as the skew-t shows a strong cap (even at 33C). This would have meant not many storms to compete for energy.

AC

Ahhhh , OK, that explains it. Thanks AC. I was really scratching my head with what I was doing wrong. Still, amazing that with CAPE around 2000+ it was such an intense storm. There is so much to learn about thunderstorm development around SEQ.

Whynot.