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#1098411 - 09/04/2012 07:38 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Ben]
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10344
Loc: Blue Mountains
Originally Posted By: Ben
Okay, I can confirm this tornado report that Simmmah posted. I live in Asquith (mums house) and only 500m to my NE was the damage. I was out chasing the Hunter storms at the home, but people at home heard or saw nothing, understandably so, considering it was 7:30pm and pitch dark. We also had a blackout. Anyway I investigated the damage,around the Mills Park area. I would say it is definitely a tornado, in the F1-F2 range. Huge gum trees down, through peoples rooves jacarandas uprooted, some trees have been half eaten up. It is amazing how the damage stopped so suddenly. I spoke to 2 residents in the path. They said the winds lasted no more than 30 seconds, and it sounded like freight train. The damage also does not look linear, there is no one direction that it tracked...


Look forward to any more details Ben. Fascinating stuff. I didn't get a chance to do much photography of note (just on dark, very grainy stuff) but it did look nice from up here. Some crisp flanking lines and anvils although by the time I captured them, things were a little less defined up this way.

A couple from last night, posted in the wrong thread yesterday:

http://twitpic.com/photos/BlackheathWx
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BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#1098412 - 09/04/2012 07:51 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Blizzard]
perrywinkle Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 04/08/2006
Posts: 465
Loc: Warrawee Valley
Was a very wet, but windless storm here in the Warrawee Valley. Remarkable for the number of 'close' (simultaneous lightning + crack) hits. At one stage we we down one end of the house in a lull, and my son complained that the hairs up and down his spine, and on his face were prickling (He shaved for the Greatest Shave and I have no hair so no hair to stick up)- we retreated to the centre of the house quick-smart and craaaaaak! Good call. What is odd is that I can't figure what it hit. Our earth leakage circuit breaker went off but that is about it.

Hope every one is OK (my rest of my family is camping on the central tablelands - hail and tents don't mix!).

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8448547/crews-mop-up-after-wild-sydney-storm


Edited by perrywinkle (09/04/2012 07:57)
Edit Reason: Insert news link

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#1098417 - 09/04/2012 09:02 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Simmah]
MC Thomas Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/12/2004
Posts: 1119
Loc: Melbourne
Originally Posted By: Simmah
Heard via the grapevine (facebook) of some Damage in Asquith associated with the storm that went through around 7:30pm.. Initial reports called it a Tornado. Reviewing the Radar shows a cell pass over the area with an interesting shape, that switching to doppler shows definite rotation in the lower region of the storm. from 7:25pm to 7:55pm on the radar the rotation persists and the 7:31pm image is over Asquith, the 7:37 shows a small but intense area of rotation that is quite low within the storm (perhaps picking up the actual TOR being so close to the radar) and the 7:43 image continues with the strong returns as it pretty much passes over the radar

Have a look for yourselves, and switch to 64km radar loop to see the shape of the storm. I see a clear hook area associated with the rotation indicated with the doppler.

http://www.theweatherchaser.com/radar-loop/IDR71I-sydney-terrey-hills/2012-04-08-08/2012-04-08-13

- Simon


Very interesting, thanks for pointing that out. Certainly nice that it occurred so close to the radar site. Just passed on descriptions, environment and radar, I'd have no problems calling tornado on this one.

Great photos by all.

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#1098418 - 09/04/2012 09:10 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: MC Thomas]
coalfire Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 05/04/2012
Posts: 8
Loc: Lithgow NSW
A bit more like Autumn here this morning. The low overnight of 5 degrees and its 7 degrees now. Maybe the autumn colour will improve, the nights will definitely get colder now. The first frost should be happening shortly.Always before Anzac Day


Edited by coalfire (09/04/2012 09:11)

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#1098430 - 09/04/2012 10:27 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: coalfire]
GrizzlyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/06/2011
Posts: 2359
Loc: Yetholme [1180m] Central Table...
Already frost this morning here, but what do you call the first frost when we had one in the middle of January. Not sure if that January frost should be called the last late frost after winter 2011 or the first frost of 2012?. Maybe there should be a cut of date in mid February at the time that DaveM defines as the earliest signs of Autumn.

I guess for our area, frost becomes a "normal" occurrence that can happen in a normal weekly or fortnightly weather cycle by Anzac Day.

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#1098431 - 09/04/2012 10:39 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: GrizzlyBear]
Rainbow Spirit Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 10/11/2010
Posts: 701
Loc: Green Valley, just west of Liv...
I was out to 2am with the SES at Fairfield, lots of large trees down, one member from Panania showed me a photo of hail 15mm in diameter at his house. The BoM was negligent with this storm, STWs issued during a storm just don't cut it.

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#1098432 - 09/04/2012 10:46 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Rainbow Spirit]
kizz Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 11/02/2002
Posts: 2202
Loc: Beacon Hill, Sydney 152m asl
Complete and utter disaster here since we had one very close CG last night; no Foxtel signal!
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#1098437 - 09/04/2012 11:05 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Rainbow Spirit]
Simmah Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 03/07/2001
Posts: 2548
Loc: Wollongong - NSW
Originally Posted By: Rainbow Spirit
The BoM was negligent with this storm, STWs issued during a storm just don't cut it.


Whilst i generally agree with you in this regard, i will defend the BoM in this case. Apart from a brief tornado which formed rapidly and out of what looks like quite a scrappy cell in the frames before the TOR, and even during the TOR is didn't look overly organized (without the doppler images you wouldn't have noticed the hook region and without the TOR reports you would have dismissed the initial couple of frames that suggested the rotation as a radar glitch..and the TOR happened in the 2nd frame). ALSO, From what i understand nothing else from all these storms was in the Severe category, and the potential for it to be so was very low.. Heck, storms weren't even on the books as far as i was aware (down here anyways). 15mm hail isn't in the severe category, there wasn't huge flash flooding rains and the only damaging winds was from the brief TOR... So if the TOR didn't happen, an STW wasn't even required under the STW parameters.

Anyways, thats just my opinion on Yesterdays events, in general i do agree with you.. AND AT least they issued a warning during the storms and not an hour afterwards, that's an Improvement on April 14/99 wink

Simon

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#1098440 - 09/04/2012 11:19 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Simmah]
Simmah Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 03/07/2001
Posts: 2548
Loc: Wollongong - NSW
Missed the edit time by a minute... grrr.. BUT..

EDIT: I Just read that you were in Fairfield with fallen trees etc.. SO perhaps the Damaging winds comment of mine was incorrect. Was this from the storm that had a Sepia core near Oatly?? Of all storms yesterday evening, this one would have got anyone's attention being the strongest of them all. (taking your focus off the TOR producing storm to the N too)

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#1098441 - 09/04/2012 11:23 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: GrizzlyBear]
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10344
Loc: Blue Mountains
Originally Posted By: PeterDuke
Already frost this morning here, but what do you call the first frost when we had one in the middle of January...


Had some 'roof frosts' here too. Neighbours have a corrugated iron roof. Was a bit windier here though, so nothing really cold. Got to nearly 3C in my screen as I am more sheltered than some areas, with a nice little pooling area behind me.

Could get to around 2C here tomorrow, if the wind isn't too high, always the problem up this way.
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BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#1098446 - 09/04/2012 11:59 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Blizzard]
Ocean Thunder Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 01/03/2011
Posts: 310
Loc: Dee Why
Here's another pic from last night, for some reason the one i want to show (a crawler that looped back on itself) just won't upload to my photobucket account. Bummed because it's the weirdest lightning i've ever seen. Will keep trying.
This shot shows the ferocity of the lightning last night, i saw one hit the ocean really close to the Point, it appeared to spark at the base and basically looked like it fried the water! smile

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k525/Bretto771/April%208/IMG_4010.jpg

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#1098451 - 09/04/2012 12:27 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: GrizzlyBear]
Steve777 Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 20/10/2011
Posts: 5027
Loc: Artarmon (Sydney North Shore)
Originally Posted By: PeterDuke
Already frost this morning here, but what do you call the first frost when we had one in the middle of January. Not sure if that January frost should be called the last late frost after winter 2011 or the first frost of 2012?. Maybe there should be a cut of date in mid February at the time that DaveM defines as the earliest signs of Autumn...


I'll throw in my inexpert opinion.

In 2011/12, December was a cool wet extension of spring. After a false start in November, Summer didn't really get underway until early in the New Year, so possibly we should regard the cold outbreak of Jan 11/12 as the last gasp of the 2011 winter. Alternatively, we could regard the outbreak as a strange one-off event, although the cold probably originated over oceans still warming from the previous winter.

In either case, frosts occurring around now would be the first of the coming winter.

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#1098462 - 09/04/2012 13:30 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Steve777]
Ben Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 11/10/2002
Posts: 5308
Loc: Tweed Coast
North Turramurra was also quite damaged. Maybe even moreso than Asquith. Huge eucalyptus trees down across rooves, many uprooted that are massive. Tiles have been stripped off houses, damage is about 500m wide again. One of my friends houses was in the middle of it so I shall be asking their opinion when I can get hold of them.

Now what is REALLY cool is that I went to Golden Jubilee oval. Most of the oval is fine but I went for a bit of a walk into the bush and the damage starts there with a few trees uprooted. When you get to the cliff edge with a view across the valley there is a CLEAR damage path of where it tracked.. it carved its way right through the valley flattening everything in its path. Simply incredible.

I have photos but I am off to Wisemans Ferry now, so will put them up when I get back.

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#1098467 - 09/04/2012 13:44 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Ben]
TheAnt Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/11/2011
Posts: 1443
Yes I saw that Doppler Wind radar last night, had no idea why I didn't think it wasn't a chance of a tornado, probably dont trust my judgement, did look like some beastly storms for you guys though!

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#1098473 - 09/04/2012 14:01 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Steve777]
peterh Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 23/07/2008
Posts: 346
Loc: Theodore ACT
Being in the capital and usually the first to experience frosts about canberra, I am surprised that we have had mild nights, warm days and the only way to identify that winter is on its way is the change in the blue sky overhead. For whatever reason, in summer it is dark blue, but in winter it is light blue. The sky is light blue right now. No frosts, couple of heavy dews, and the rain has completely stopped. we are experiencing strong winds, but there isn't any other action in canberra, it seems to slip past us. Was advised by a weather forecaster that he thinks it won't be till October till canberra experiences any major storms.

Here's hoping he is wrong.
_________________________
A perfect day is a day when I can watch a big storm track up Tuggeranong valley, with decent strikes and rain. Preferably in summer...

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#1098476 - 09/04/2012 14:09 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Ben]
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10344
Loc: Blue Mountains
Originally Posted By: Ben
... When you get to the cliff edge with a view across the valley there is a CLEAR damage path of where it tracked.. it carved its way right through the valley flattening everything in its path. Simply incredible.

I have photos but I am off to Wisemans Ferry now, so will put them up when I get back.


Can't wait for them.

In the mean-time, the contrasting weather patterns of autumn will be evident tomorrow morning with the BoM going for 4C in Katoomba. I am guessing we will see 2.5C here in Blackheath. If the wind dies down early on the eastern side of town, we could see 1.5C.
_________________________
BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#1098480 - 09/04/2012 14:16 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: peterh]
Simmah Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 03/07/2001
Posts: 2548
Loc: Wollongong - NSW
reading through more reports of last nights events in the basin, and Im starting to wind back my thoughts in the previous 2 posts of mine... There was indeed damaging winds (other then the TOR) and flash flooding but i think couple of the issues yesterday that these storms formed in what i feel was a marginal setup (like i said, i hadn't even noted storms were possible for down here, but we got them) and they intensified really quickly (and some died just as quick)... And with out going over the models again and data of the day, i don't think these storms got overly high. I think it caught the BoM off guard because 1. They developed in marginal circumstances, 2. They were seemingly low topped 3. They intensified from a thundery shower cell to something more severe in a matter of 5-10 minutes

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#1098492 - 09/04/2012 14:52 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Blizzard]
Simmah Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 03/07/2001
Posts: 2548
Loc: Wollongong - NSW
Originally Posted By: Blizzard
Originally Posted By: Ben
... When you get to the cliff edge with a view across the valley there is a CLEAR damage path of where it tracked.. it carved its way right through the valley flattening everything in its path. Simply incredible.

I have photos but I am off to Wisemans Ferry now, so will put them up when I get back.


Can't wait for them.



Awesome stuff Ben! can't wait to see the pics either!


AS for frosts etc, in my 24 years growing up in Canberra.. It was almost a sure thing that Anzac day was the first frost for the year... Maybe because it was the one morning thousands are up super early for the dawn service so it was the first seen but not the first actual frost...i recall watching the forecasts as a kid and more often then not Anzac morning (or a day or 2 before or after) was nearly always the first minus temp for the winter season.

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#1098495 - 09/04/2012 14:59 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: Simmah]
mkeene(pingtang) Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 03/09/2011
Posts: 548
Loc: Nowra,NSW
I noticed 6cm hail fell near Cronulla. So the severe criteria for hail has been met as well,easily. What i'm mostly annoyed about is the 4:20pm forecast, which had no mention of storms whatsoever, despite storms on the blue mountains,and ample shear to send them to the basin.

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#1098496 - 09/04/2012 15:12 Re: Autumn has arrived in NSW [Re: mkeene(pingtang)]
Simmah Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 03/07/2001
Posts: 2548
Loc: Wollongong - NSW
Originally Posted By: mkeene(pingtang)
I noticed 6cm hail fell near Cronulla. So the severe criteria for hail has been met as well,easily. What i'm mostly annoyed about is the 4:20pm forecast, which had no mention of storms whatsoever, despite storms on the blue mountains,and ample shear to send them to the basin.


6cm? sheeeeeeeeze! 2 sepia cores went pretty much over the same region, but i think this might have been from the first one, 7:24pm radar image?


Edited by Simmah (09/04/2012 15:14)

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