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#1095033 - 23/03/2012 11:25 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: nitso]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23688
Loc: Townsville
Originally Posted By: nitso
Originally Posted By: boomer
Seems... as the BoM couldn't record a definitive path or intensity... we will never know the actual.
Disappointed the chaser boys made no real attempt at answers (and why the hell is Trav at times using Nitso's bandwidth?)


Not sure what you need answered Boomer, this was an EF2 tornado - the BoM are likely to be close to confirming what we all know to be true. It literally took me about 1-2 minutes to survey damage at the south side of the airport before announcing to Trav that this could not be anything other than a TOR (twisted debris falling in all compass directions towards a central point and the point kept moving southwards, also the presence of ground level debris at the top of power lines, meant that there was no way in hell it was a downburst/microburst = not a shadow of a doubt as to this being a TOR). The issue remains how strong will they label it, it only takes one little tiny bit of EF3 damage evidence for the TOR to be labelled as such entirely. So perhaps they may even be toying with a further upgrade, but I suspect it will be a high end EF2. It is truly astounding how much more damage is caused by a rotating and lifting wind than a straight line wind associated with a cyclone. In fact, in reality it's the one thing I'm actually scared of in a tropical cyclone, is the EF0/1/2 tornadoes that occur in their outer bands and in the eye wall. The twisting forces associated with them coupled with ongoing cyclonic winds will tear many a cyclone rated house to bits.

My heart goes out to all of you affected by this disaster.


I'm more confused by boomers comments saying he is disappointed in us not making effort to survey damage. First of all -
A. We got the fastest plane flights home from Darwin
B. we got of the plane at the airport and did a damage assessment straight away.
C. Within 4 hours we had damage assessment videos on YouTube.

We do try our best gee.
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#1095036 - 23/03/2012 11:30 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Mick10]
Moldy Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 21/10/2008
Posts: 380
Loc: Vincent, Townsville
Woohoo, power back on! They are also sorting power for the houses across the road who had their cables pulled off their houses. I have had 3 stray kittens for the past 7 days so the old towels for their bedding was the first to go in the washing machine!!! should be able to get them to the RSPCA this afternoon. Crews in cleaning up trees in the Dept housing houses. They just got a digger in to get a rather long 6 x 2 out that was speared in the ground.Thankfully that didnt hit my house. Still exclusion zone though.

Thanks for the support guys, it was greatly appreciated. Back on deck this morning and able to focus though a bit drained as I'm a lot of folk will be. All the neighbourhood kids at school or elsewhere, been none on the streets. Someone from Vincent school came around Tues to let the parents know school was on Wed and the kids were expected to go. Great for the kids, parents and the workers in the area!

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#1095037 - 23/03/2012 11:32 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Moldy]
Squid Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 03/09/2005
Posts: 9535
Loc: Murgon
trav you cant please everyone

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#1095042 - 23/03/2012 12:18 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Squid]
Mick10 Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/11/2001
Posts: 25297
Loc: Kirwan, Townsville - NQld.
great news mouldy, just another step in getting some normality back into your life.
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#1095048 - 23/03/2012 13:13 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Mick10]
Missy71 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 09/02/2011
Posts: 218
Loc: Black River, Townsville
A bit off topic but a friend's dog went missing from Lillipilli St on the morning of the tornado, their fences were blown down and she said that he was gone as soon as they went outside immediately after the tornado passed.

She and her neighbour is sure they've heard his bark in the distance since then and think he may be somewhere in the neighbourhood, possibly someone's found him and is looking after him. She's called vets, the radio, the pound and searched there, done all of the regular things you do when you've lost a dog. Her son's even walked the neighbourhood with some soldiers looking for the dog.

The dog's name is Smokey and he's a desexed Great Dane. He's not registered and won't go in a car if he's found.

If you find him, or know of someone in the area who has found a dog like him can you send me a PM. She has 3 kids who are frantic to find him.

Thanks heaps.



Edited by Missy71 (23/03/2012 13:26)

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#1095050 - 23/03/2012 13:16 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Tuco]
Missy71 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 09/02/2011
Posts: 218
Loc: Black River, Townsville
Originally Posted By: Tuco
Should I waste time mentioning journos? Of course, they're stupid.

Bulletin showed photo from the air of Townsville Demolition's yard as an example of destruction! It's a demolition yard, it's already a mess.

Sunrise, Mel says more heavy rain to batter Townsville then 2 minutes later weather channel guys says the worst is over and it hasn't rained since.


I saw that picture too and thought the same thing! I went through Woolcock St/Duckworth St on the way to the Mater for the first time this week (first time into town since Monday) and was amazed at the damage to the signs and palms at the roundabout.

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#1095052 - 23/03/2012 13:24 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Missy71]
NQ_Dee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 26/01/2007
Posts: 2528
Loc: Vincent, Townsville, QLD
Originally Posted By: Missy71
A bit off topic but a friend's dog went missing from Lillipilli St on the morning of the tornado, their fences were blown down and she said that he was gone as soon as they went outside immediately after the tornado passed.

She and her neighbour is sure they've heard his bark in the distance since then and think he may be somewhere in the neighbourhood, possibly someone's found him and is looking after him. She's called vets, the radio, the pound and searched there, done all of the regular things you do when you've lost a dog. Her son's even walked the neighbourhood with some soldiers looking for the dog.

The dog's name is Smokey and he's a desexed Great Dane. He's not registered and won't go in a car if he's found.

If you find him, or know of someone in the area who has found a dog like him can you send me a PM. She has 3 kids who are frantic to find him.

Thanks heaps.

Here is picture of him:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...&type=3&theater


I can't access that picture but make sure your friend posts in this FB group:

I have reunited many lost pets (they seem to gravitate towards me) through this site.
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#1095054 - 23/03/2012 13:28 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: NQ_Dee]
Missy71 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 09/02/2011
Posts: 218
Loc: Black River, Townsville
Thanks Dee for letting me know. She must have it set to private. I logged out of my FB and checked when you told me.

Smokey is a black and white Dane and he's patterened like there are splotches of black all over him.

I can't see the FB link you referred to though.

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#1095056 - 23/03/2012 13:33 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Missy71]
Noname Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/01/2011
Posts: 2104
Right click on the photos you can get url photo link.
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#1095057 - 23/03/2012 13:36 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Missy71]
Missy71 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 09/02/2011
Posts: 218
Loc: Black River, Townsville
This is a picture of Smokey, who has gone missing from Lillipilli St Vincent.

Please let me know if you find him (I've written about him a few posts back).

Cheers.


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#1095061 - 23/03/2012 13:46 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Noname]
Missy71 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 09/02/2011
Posts: 218
Loc: Black River, Townsville
Thanks. I got the picture up eventually.

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#1095063 - 23/03/2012 14:00 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Missy71]
Noname Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/01/2011
Posts: 2104
http://www-public.jcu.edu.au/jcnn/makingnews/JCU_098635

Screw that! JCU calling it mini tornado. OMFG such embarrassment!
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#1095064 - 23/03/2012 14:04 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Noname]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23688
Loc: Townsville
What else can you expect from university people that don't even know what they are talking about. Luckily the cyclone testing station guys didn't call it a mini tornado.

I think the testing centre is underestimating winds. 140-170kmhr, conservative much?
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#1095066 - 23/03/2012 14:07 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Dawgggg]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23688
Loc: Townsville
I am thinking 175-205kmhr. 140kmhr winds do not rip apart houses.
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#1095067 - 23/03/2012 14:16 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Dawgggg]
WANDJINA G'vale Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 22/03/2006
Posts: 2371
Loc: Gordonvale - Qld
Nearly any old outhouse will withstand 140 - but ramp it up to 180kmh + and its whooosska - gonski
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#1095069 - 23/03/2012 14:22 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Dawgggg]
MC Thomas Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/12/2004
Posts: 1119
Loc: Melbourne
I have to say I have really been horrified by much of the reporting of this event. Why must they keep on calling it a "mini tornado" or saying "residents described it as a mini tornado." They even have quoted people from either the BoM or weatherzone stating that there is no such thing yet still insist on using the term! I really should make a list with all the cringe-worthy things I have read. Seriously, the media should do a much better job.

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#1095070 - 23/03/2012 14:30 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: Dawgggg]
camshaft Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 25/12/2010
Posts: 287
Loc: Cairns
Originally Posted By: OzCyChaser Trav
I am thinking 175-205kmhr. 140kmhr winds do not rip apart houses.


140km/h winds may not rip apart most houses.. however the objects flying into them will.. I agree in that winds have exceeded the 200km/h mark..

For those of you having a shoot at the OCC boys, get off your computer and drive to townsville and asses the damage your self! Give them a break they have done a fantastic job to cover the event.

smile

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#1095071 - 23/03/2012 14:33 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: MC Thomas]
camshaft Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 25/12/2010
Posts: 287
Loc: Cairns
Originally Posted By: MC Thomas
I have to say I have really been horrified by much of the reporting of this event. Why must they keep on calling it a "mini tornado" or saying "residents described it as a mini tornado." They even have quoted people from either the BoM or weatherzone stating that there is no such thing yet still insist on using the term! I really should make a list with all the cringe-worthy things I have read. Seriously, the media should do a much better job.


Media will do what they can to make the story interesting.. alot of these reports you will find they actually know nothing about these weather events at all let alone how quickly they form and the damage they can do.

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#1095075 - 23/03/2012 14:46 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: camshaft]
Severely Tall Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/11/2006
Posts: 751
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria
You guys do realise that an EF1/F1 (as E isn't actually totally applicable) is rated between 138178 km/hr right? We aren't talking low level winds here. Houses survive against sustained relatively unidirectional winds far better than the strong partial area forces induced by the passage of a tornado (with gradients from basically zero to 160km/hr over a very short distance).

Every bit of damage I have seen from your documentation, the media, and in peoples comments would suggest its most likely an F1 - and I'd probably need to be on the ground to find structural evidence otherwise (F2 you start needing significant damage to bricked structures and start needing to look at the engineering of the structures plus damage tracing). The structures in US rating scales were relatively poorly built "Queenslanders", with relatively poorly secured roof structures, which is not going to handle tornadic winds particularly well. I'd be interested to see if there were any more solidly built and secured structures that were in the damage path as these would add to the damage assessment. Most of the debris appears to be sheet metal or wooden materials ripped from the roof or upper parts of the structures which would fit with the lower rating. It certainly doesn't make the event any less significant, but its important to remain objective in any such analysis - when you first consider tornado damage first hand it can be hard to keep ones objectivity and you guys seem to have done a reasonable job given your velocity estimates seem to be in the correct ballpark. How wide was the path at its widest?


Edited by Severely Tall (23/03/2012 14:47)
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#1095081 - 23/03/2012 15:07 Re: Townsville Tornado Reports and Pictures [Re: NQ_Dee]
Missy71 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 09/02/2011
Posts: 218
Loc: Black River, Townsville
Originally Posted By: NQ_Dee
Originally Posted By: Missy71
A bit off topic but a friend's dog went missing from Lillipilli St on the morning of the tornado, their fences were blown down and she said that he was gone as soon as they went outside immediately after the tornado passed.

She and her neighbour is sure they've heard his bark in the distance since then and think he may be somewhere in the neighbourhood, possibly someone's found him and is looking after him. She's called vets, the radio, the pound and searched there, done all of the regular things you do when you've lost a dog. Her son's even walked the neighbourhood with some soldiers looking for the dog.

The dog's name is Smokey and he's a desexed Great Dane. He's not registered and won't go in a car if he's found.

If you find him, or know of someone in the area who has found a dog like him can you send me a PM. She has 3 kids who are frantic to find him.

Thanks heaps.

Here is picture of him:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...&type=3&theater


I can't access that picture but make sure your friend posts in this FB group:

I have reunited many lost pets (they seem to gravitate towards me) through this site.


Thanks . I did a search for groups and think I've found a picture of him so I've let my friend know, but she hasn't been able to check yet as she's still at work.

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