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#1086750 - 07/03/2012 21:01 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: ROM]
roves Offline
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Registered: 02/02/2005
Posts: 1294
Loc: Paringa-Riverland
Thought as much ROM that spike better come to pass later this year because prices are atleast $100/t below par for wheat.
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#1088300 - 13/03/2012 10:39 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: roves]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1600
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
*sigh* Andrew Bolt is dead right in this column... it's freakin' depressing.

Originally Posted By: Spare me the praise that damns

A farmer on the panel noted that we couldn’t get too definitive about weather records given we only went back 200 years. Any fool knew immediately he was referring to weather records.

But Plibersek could resist playing the smary moralist card to portray the man as possibly a racist, snickering that people had actually been here much longer than 200 years. And even when the farmer clarified his remarks, Mick Gooda, the taxpayer-funded conscience, had to share a snigger with Plibersek about how yes indeed, “my people” had been here much longer than 20 years.

It is contemptible, this gotcha moralising - this bullying with the cheap-shot smear - just for a bit of moral showboating. Plibersek should apologise to the farmer.

...

And as I leave, host Tony Jones turns to the farmer during a discussion about Twitter and sneers that he doesn’t even know if the farmer is on the Internet. Laughs from the morons in the crowd.

Silly farmer.

Ah, the inner-city dinner-party crowd on display.


Class warfare / discrimination brought to you by everyone's favourite socialists, the Greens and the ALP... you know, the ones trying to square up the ledger for 'everyone'. It's that kind of crap that drives a wedge between the city and the country. Just downright depressing, always have to be seen to be completely above board when it comes to illegal immigrants... ooops, ah I mean asylum seekers and indigenous people for example, but we can sneer down our noses at the people who help generate income for this country and put food on our plates. Leftist socialist BS at its best.

Can't wait for their moral superiority to finally come home and roost, problem is, it probably won't. Those who tend to display this form of behaviour tend to be from quite well off backgrounds and seem to have no issue in moralising / lecturing to those beneath them. Therefore the irony is that they'll probably be the only ones who'll be able to afford food, water and electricity as it becomes more expensive...

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#1089380 - 15/03/2012 08:08 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: Andy Double U]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1600
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
Andrew Bolt's written a follow up to his blog post:

Andrew Bolt - Slurs and Acid of Public debate

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#1102547 - 03/05/2012 17:30 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: Andy Double U]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1600
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
Occupy Protestors... they've got farming in their sights smile

Occupy Protestors do some 'farming'

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#1103243 - 08/05/2012 16:35 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: Andy Double U]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12719
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
I would like to farm some Occupiers. About 8 feet down and 10 to teh acre should be a fairly good ratio.
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Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

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#1117000 - 28/07/2012 12:12 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: SBT]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
We have had the American heat wave and drought pushed down our necks in some of the Climate threads as an indicator of so called global warming.
But what is the reality of this American drought compared to the great US droughts of the past decades?

There is a really excellent controllable animated comparison on the american news "USA Today" site.

I just don't know how to transfer an animation to this site so the fixed comparisons will have to do.

Comparing droughts: 1934 and 2012
Quote:
More than 50% of the United States is under drought conditions, putting 2012 in the same category as some of the worst droughts in history. As bad as the current drought is, the Dust Bowl drought of the 1930s remains the worst. At its height in July 1934, almost 80% of the nation was enduring drought conditions, compared with about 55% today.

The comparisons;



And the cost comparisons in comparative dollars;



Which goes to show that despite the hoopla this current 2012 USA drought is severe but a pretty run of the mill decent drought by
recent Australian standards.
Reinforced by the comment quote as taken from the article quoted below;
Quote:
David Friedberg, founder and CEO of the San Francisco-based Climate Corporation, which sells insurance to farmers to supplement their federal crop insurance, estimates that yields on the 160 million acres of corn and soybeans planted in the U.S. this year will eventually be 30% lower than in a typical weather yea

Frankly my heart bleeds when I see this sort of 30% variation quoted in estimated crop yields as a full on disaster, a variation which Australian farmers see almost on a yearly basis in the drier parts of the Australian agricultural regions.

And then the nearly broke US Government steps in with some $10.8 billions in crop insurance.[/sarc]

The article from "USA Today" in full.

Quote:
Drought could cost $12 billion, most since 1988

The enormous drought scorching the central USA will almost certainly cost at least $12 billion, making it the costliest since 1988, experts said Wednesday

"There does seem to be near-unanimous agreement from industry experts that this year's drought losses will surpass the $12 billion recorded in 2011," says meteorologist Steve Bowen of Aon Benfield, a global reinsurance firm.
The Department of Agriculture said Wednesday that food prices next year could go up by 3%-4% as a result, with beef expected to take the highest jump at 4%-5%.

About 64% of the contiguous USA is in a drought, according to today's U.S. Drought Monitor, a federal website.
"Right now, it is difficult to say whether we end up reaching the loss levels of 1988 ($40 billion) and 1980 ($20 billion), given that it will be several months for agricultural industries to fully assess the total extent of their losses," Bowen says.
If adjusted for inflation to 2012 dollars, Bowen says, those drought losses would be $78 billion and $56 billion, based on National Climatic Data Center figures.
"If the intensity of this year's drought is prolonged throughout the rest of the summer, it may not be out of the question to experience losses that rival something seen out of those 1980s events," Bowen says.
Joseph Glauber, chief economist for the USDA, says his department won't have a clear picture of how much damage the nation's crops have sustained until a report Aug. 10. However, "it is safe to say" that this year's crop-insurance payments to farmers hit by drought will top the $10.8 billion paid last year, he says.
Paul Walker, senior meteorologist for AccuWeather, says that in many areas of the Corn Belt, rain wouldn't help because "it is getting too late in the growing season."

David Friedberg, founder and CEO of the San Francisco-based Climate Corporation, which sells insurance to farmers to supplement their federal crop insurance, estimates that yields on the 160 million acres of corn and soybeans planted in the U.S. this year will eventually be 30% lower than in a typical weather year.
"In 2013, as a result of this drought, we are looking at above-normal food-price inflation. … Consumers are certainly going to feel it," Richard Volpe, USDA economist, says.
Normal grocery price inflation is about 2.8%, he added, so even at the low end of the projected range people will see their grocery expenses rise more than usual in 2013. The USDA kept its projected food price increase for 2012 steady at 2.5% to 3.5%.


The thing to keep in mind here is that the great American droughts occur during the approximately 30 year long period of the negative, La Nina dominated phase of the approximately 60 year long PDO cycle.
And the PDO finally switched to the negative, cooling phase around 2006 /7.

Meanwhile, sometime in the near future here in Australia we can expect lower temperatures and much higher overall rainfall totals in eastern Australia at least, over the duration of this same negative PDO phase.
Not that dissimilar to the rainfall of extremely wet 1950's and 1970's.

And the late 1940's, 1950's and the 1970's were golden ages in Australian farming as I can well testify as one who lived and farmed through those times.

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#1117012 - 28/07/2012 14:30 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: ROM]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12719
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
I caught part of a Landline program last week which was asking a US farmer how he could have a viable 3000 acre wheat farm. The answer was subsidies and crop insurance, without which no bank will loan him the money to buy seed from another farer that is also subsidized and so it goes on. In the end the farmer gets paid (about 3 times) more to produce the crop that the crop makes at sale because the US Federal government is trying to bolster it's own agriculture by inflating prices that keep cheap inports away due to unrealistic high prices. The only ones making any real money are the banks, of course. When he asked how much crop insurance was in Australia the reporter was dumb founded. Crop insurance in Australia? No insurance company would take the gamble the way they do in the US was the reply.
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Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

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#1117021 - 28/07/2012 16:51 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: SBT]
ozone doug Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 352
Loc: Roma SW QLD Gateway to the O...
Yes i watched that too SBT. Makes you wonder how long they can keep doing that.cheers Doug
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#1117168 - 30/07/2012 02:52 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: ozone doug]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1440
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Bit of an aside Max but the three main crop farmers I help out (need to be that close to know ....they play their cards close) are having a fair time of it the moment ...looking toward some good yields and prices/have about 50% canola in.
Floods are a memory for the moment but these three families still have Pop alive and reminding them about bad years to come.
who'd be a farmers? ....I watch em though ...they are born to it and really love their plots ...sometimes they curse everything but i doubt they'd give it up easily.
Is obviously a base need to produce something ...and especially food is pretty honourable.
I have lots of time for them ....of ccourse some really get their blinkers on when they go into cropping mode.
Is like a elephant in rut I reckon poke
but great to see blokes so intent on their work .....and we'd starve without em!
More power to them I say! ......I have noticed though that when you hit the Ag button on the top of the front page ...the Zone gets wings poke
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/agriculture/
.....bloody finance companies targetting farmers hey!


Edited by Arnoldnut (30/07/2012 02:54)
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#1118356 - 06/08/2012 13:24 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: Arnoldnut]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
I have been heavily involved in the WZ Climate Change forum as if you mightn't have noticed!!

But this morning in "The Australian" was a press release / news item that makes all the argy bargy about climate change look like so much crap arguing between a few rich kids who already have too many toys.

I would put this announcement right up there with some of the most important long term developments for humanity that we have seen for some time past and on a par with Norman Borlaug's "Green Revolution" of the late 1960's and 1970's which played such a significant role in enabling the world's farmers to meet the food needs of the world's rapidly growing population.

The announcement which doesn't seem to have made it's way onto the GRDC's site as yet;
[ The headlines are somewhat overdone as there is no food crisis as yet nor likely to be in the foreseeable future but, hey! that's the media! ]

Super-yielding wheat may solve food crisis
Quote:
A FLUKE experiment tinkering with the genes of Australian wheat has created a new variety that could rocket wheat yields by 30 per cent a year.

The chance discovery by a CSIRO research team is considered so significant that it has been heralded worldwide as a possible solution to future global food shortages.

Grains Research & Development Corporation chief John Harvey described the surprise breeding breakthrough as one of the most exciting scientific advances for wheat in decades.

"It was a lucky, serendipitous discovery," a delighted Mr Harvey told a national grain industry conference in Melbourne. "Researchers at CSIRO's division of Plant Industry were looking at ways to change starch in wheat (for industrial processing reasons) and noticed when they grew (these new wheat types) the plants ended up 30 per cent larger, with 30 per cent bigger heads and a 30 per cent increase in grain yield."

The new "super-wheat", bred by a research team in Canberra headed by Matthew Morell, is being grown in field trials in three locations around Australia.

It is hoped it will provide the momentous leap in wheat productivity that researchers have spent years searching for, after worryingly slow advances in recent times.

Jeremy Burdon, CSIRO Plant Industry chief, said yesterday that after the "green revolution" of the 1960s and 70s, when new varieties resistant to common diseases and pests brought giant wheat yield gains, there had been only incremental productivity boosts in recent years.

"The new plant breeding challenge now is, unlike in the past where it was about developing disease resistance, about increasing wheat biomass and grain head yields," Dr Burdon said.

"That's why this new development is potentially so significant; a 30 per cent yield increase is an extraordinary achievement if it can be replicated in the field."

With 650 million tonnes of wheat grown annually around the world -- Australia grew a record 29.5 million tonnes last year -- wheat is one of the most important food crops needed to feed the growing global population of nine billion by 2050.

World wheat prices hit a record high last week following major droughts in the US, Canada and Russia, and world grain prices are expected to continue to rise over the next five to 10 years.

"With this technology, we see more vigorous wheat with larger seed heads, and larger seed," said Bruce Lee, director of CSIRO's Food Futures Flagship.

"If we can achieve significant yield increases in the field, this will have a major impact on food production on a global scale."

CSIRO and grower-funded GRDC jointly own the new wheat "GWD variety", bred using gene manipulation and slicing techniques that turned off a naturally occurring enzyme gene in wheat's genetic makeup.

Dr Morell and his CSIRO Plant Industry team were originally looking to breed a new wheat line with a lower starch content and viscosity, to make industrial wheat flour processing easier. While the CSIRO team has achieved that aim, the discovery of the super-high-yielding new wheat has bowled over the international plant breeding world.

Multinational chemical and seed company Bayer last week signed a joint venture agreement with CSIRO and the GRDC to take the new high-yielding super GM wheat variety through to international commercialisation.

"This is a complex scientific challenge and a long road for development, which we believe will benefit from partnerships with some of the best innovators in the world to help wheat farmers access these significant gains sooner," Bayer Crop Science business head Mathias Kremer said.

Mr Harvey said while Bayer would help further development and refinement of the GM high-yielding trait "outside Australia", all the initial field trials would be located within in Australia.


I'd say lots more to come on this and all of it good for humanity's long term future.

The thing is that the specific and obviously previously unknown genes or more likely, combination of genes for this particular yield increase are now being explored and will be known very shortly and can then be incorporated into wheat breeding across the world.
And I would suggest a possibility of it being incorporated in some genetic form into all mankind's grass type food crops far into the future.

Just one more absolutely critical tool for plant breeders and ultimately farmers to use to keep starvation from ever becoming the lot for much of mankind's numbers.

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#1118389 - 06/08/2012 16:16 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: ROM]
SBT Offline
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Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12719
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
That is excellent news indeed Rom. A 30% increase is a huge development and a great effort by the CSIRO. This should bring some real research money and some well deserved kudos to those who made the discovery. Want to bet the worlds media won't pick it up though?
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#1118486 - 06/08/2012 22:23 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: ROM]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1440
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Originally Posted By: ROM

Just one more absolutely critical tool for plant breeders and ultimately farmers to use to keep starvation from ever becoming the lot for much of mankind's numbers.


and hopefully make their outfits a little more profitable ...30% certainly can't be scoffed at...is massive.
the risks farmers they take and the money they have invested is disproportionate to the returns ...if and when that happens.

Took some pics of one of the neighbours sheds ....his 9100 tractor in the foreground thru to one of those green and yellow headers you hate the wiring in Max poke
neighbours shed pic
What is interesting is that his grandfathers tractor is in the shot also ....peeping out of that top shed.
That was the first tractor they got after horse draw everything.
Farming has certainly come a long way in next to no time hey?

he was up past your patch in recent time and bought a perfect old jd 3020 ....he collects them and inter 1468 turbos or not ...beteween he and his son he has 6 of these old V8 diesels now ....he's an 'interhead' and the 3020s he just likes smile


Edited by Arnoldnut (06/08/2012 22:26)
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#1118539 - 07/08/2012 11:11 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: Arnoldnut]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
Thanks for that Mike.
I see Bob Phelps, the anti GM nut job was letter writing to the Australian this morning ranting on as usual about the dangers of GM' crops and throwing his invective at the GRDC and CSIRO's Plant Industry Division.
[ Grains Research and Development Corp[oration; The body which finances the research of grain crops through out Australia. Financed by a 1% levy on the gross returns of all farmer's crops, the amounts of which are then matched by the Federal Government for research purposes such as plant breeding for yield and disease resistance ]

I'm not in the least a GM enthusiast or supporter but it is another tool that can be and should be used when needed and required by plant breeders to increase food production by controlling crop disease and increasing production or overcoming crop nutrient problems, a now increasing problem here in Australia as other disease and crop problems are solved and when the crop varieies can't for genetic reasons access some of the micro nutrients in the soil in the necessary and required amounts for the plant's healthy development..

From the CSIRO / GRDC press release I suspect the technology used on these super Wheat plants is not GM as such where the genes from another totally unrelated species are incorporated into the plant's gene structure, but rather a Genetic Manipulation of the wheat plant's own genes which were being switched around and genes from other varieties of wheat were being incorporated in the gene structure of the plants [ today, a standard tool of plant breeding ] to change the starch characteristics for better processing in industrial starch production.

And some smart plant breeder or one of his sidekicks ie Technical Assistants spotted the fact that a plant and it is often just one plant grown from one seed, had not only some of the starch characteristics they were looking for but the plant also had some darn large heads and a lot of seeds or very large seeds in that head.
And got curious!
Such are some of the greatest scientific developments ever have been discovered, just by accident or much more accurately, because somebody somewhere was curious enough about an unusual result to ask why that result that we didn't even think about

Wheat of course is a major source of starch and a whole lot of other industrial products which the public just don't have a clue about.

Phelps of course being well fed and wealthy by world standards elsewhere and being just able to trot down to the local supermarket or takeaway to get his nice bit of tucker for the day can afford to rant on about GM and etc or anything that looks like a GM crop.
But for all he knows, a lot of crop gene modification today is just a shifting around of the crops own genes, something which has been happening in life since it first can be possibly detected some 3.5 billion years ago on this planet.
Unfortunately the inner city late sippers in their own little so morally superior world [ sarc ] have swallowed the whole of Phelps poisonous story wholesale.
It's a lot more complex and subtle as is the whole plant world and all of life on this planet than he makes it out to be.

Or as I was the only farmer invited to attend the world's first conference on a new technology which entails taking genes from the original grass species that make up our modern wheats, genes that got left behind when the two major hybrid crosses between two different species of grasses that were the precursors to wheat, a hybrid cross that occurred on two occassions between first two species of grasses and then that hybrid crossed again with a third and different again species of another grass to give us the ancestors of the modern wheat plant only some few tens of thousands of years ago.
All this happened in the regions around the Black Sea, and also perhaps across the Eurasian steppes in what is today the various Stans nations of central Asia, the original homes of the modern wheat's ancestors.

And that gave us, mankind, the wheat species which are the basis for our major global food crop today that helps feed 7 billion people.,

And I really wonder what Phelps and co are going to do about all those bacteria and viruses that are now known to swap genetic material amongst the vast and highly varied range of bacteria and viruses on a very routine every minute basis. as we know from just one example, the changes in the flu and cold viruses each year.
He has probably never ever felt real hunger and probably hasn't got a clue what it is like to have to spend 80% of your income just to feed yourself and family one meal a day.
Anything to ensure that those who are the poorest on this earth can get something to eat and do so and still have money left over to help improve their personal and family's living conditions should be encouraged to the maximum.

And a plant breeder or researcher somewhere in the CSIRO. financed by the Farmers and taxpayers combined through the GRDC has just put another large tool into the plant breeders arsenal that will go yet another small distance to seeing that the world's peoples will remain huger free for a longer time to come.

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#1118572 - 07/08/2012 15:08 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: ROM]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
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Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 2222
Loc: El Arish
The basic consensus with GM crops is that they claim that they are "safe" until proven otherwise (then they will always come up with some other reason that the disease has been caused")
They claim that The BT toxin (a pesticide toxin) breaks down in the gut and rendered harmless... that has been proven to be far from the case! BT toxins have been found in the bloodstream of tested people and it has also been found in the breastmilk of new mothers!.
Gene transfer happen's thru natural selection of pollen from a similar species, not thru the hand of Man inserting a gene from a fish into a strawberry for example just so it wont "freeze" over winter. Or inserting a gene from the herbicide Roundup so the whole crop canto be spayed, that would never happen in nature! Chemical comanies only do it so that they can make MORE MONEY not to help feed the starving they do it to help their profits! because if you want yo sparay the Roundup ready" monsanto corn then you have to use the MONSANTO roundup, and farmers also have to pay a per hectare "technology fee" just for the "privilege" of using the seed!
Another fact comming out now is because of the over use of glyphosate based poisons are no longer able to kill all the weeds because of resistance, they (that is Monsanto,Dow chemicals and the like) are pushing thru with a "new" variety of Soy that can be sprayed with 2-4-D and for those that don't know 2-4-D was used in Vietnam to kill the foliage in trees (and we all know what happen to the bulk of the vets that came in contact with it)
Now how can that be good for ANYONE? the thing with 2-4-D is it's ability to spray drift and that can be anything upto 100 miles from where it was originally sprayed
the shocking truth is the Monsanto variety was pushed thru the approval process in the period between christmas and new years where most people were unaware.
The full story is here http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/07/usda-prepares-ground-dows-herbicide-sucking-crops
an extract from the story:
2,4-D also has a tendency to drift far and wide upon application. This past June in California, a farmer who sprayed 1,000 acres of pasture with 2,4-D inadvertently damaged 15,000 acres of cotton and a pomegranate orchard, Western Farm Press reports. The drift reached as far as 100 miles away from the sprayed land. Dow insists it has conjured up a new form of 2,4-D that is much less prone to drift than the kind currently in use. But as Center for Food Safety has put it, the new formulation's "efficacy has not been independently validated; and in any case, neither EPA nor Dow will be able to prevent the use of cheaper, highly-drift prone formulations."
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#1118623 - 07/08/2012 19:58 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
It must be the season for extremist beliefs around here or a sign of the times!

yasified, if you made a very nice knife and it was a very useful tool for you and then somebody borrowed it and killed a person with it, would you blame the knife, your valuable tool for the way it was used?
Would you, on the basis that the knife, that valuable and very useful tool of yours which was used to kill somebody, then destroy that knife and ban anything that looked like a knife?

That is what the anti GM extremists propose with Genetic Modification, a very useful plant breeders tool that might have been badly abused and misused , depending on how you view GM's uses but a tool which opens up enormous prospects for the future of plant breeding of every description.

And soon and maybe already but you don't know it, those medical advances that you are relying on to cure your medical problem might be based on plants that have been genetically modified to produce cheap, pure, very medically valuable chemicals for use in your health problems.
And thats happening right now!

Are you going to refuse, even if you were dying, to use those medicines on the basis they came from GM plants?

Have you any inhibitions against taking any synthetic medicines to kill viruses and even fungal growths that can occur on the human body, chemicals not that dissimilar to the chemicals used by farmers on plants to control the same diseases.

Do you use soaps and various chemical concotions, most of which you haven't got a clue as to what is in them, to keep yourself clean and free from all sorts of odd collections of dirt, detritus, strange growing things that maybe you can't see but know they are there because you reckon you might be getting a bit smelly and sweaty?

Well thats what farmers do to keep their plants, the crops from which your food comes from. clean and healthy and strangely, fit for human consumption.

You see I grew up as a small boy when none of these chemicals like 24D or seed dressings were around and every now and then somebody somewhere would get violently ill and before my time, die, due to the toxins that had lived on the crop, survived the cooking process and then went on to even kill some people and small kids.

I doubt that fortunately like myself, you have never felt real hunger for a long period.
If you had you would not hesitate to eat that GM. chemically sprayed crop origin and therefore defiled food to your way of thinking.

And if you want to ban chemicals and the plant breeders tools such as genetic modification, a very valuable tool in the plant breeders arsenal, then be very careful what you wish for.

You might just get it and I can assure you that hunger and starvation will sharpen your appetite for food, any food of any sort a lot more than you might realise.

And no, i don't expect that i have shifted your attitude one iota as believers in such extremist claims have regularly shown that they are fixated almost forever in their beliefs regardless of evidence or rational explanations.

I hope I am very wrong in that last comment.

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#1118672 - 08/08/2012 09:00 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: ROM]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 2222
Loc: El Arish
And wasn't asbestos claimed as a wonder product back in it's time? What about DDT? people will look back years from now and say we saw it comming....we could have stopped it but nobody did nothing about it....all i can say hindsight is a wonderful thing!
You only have to look at some of the poisons that are sprayed on crops and the noxious substance warnings on the bottles..... i personally know of farming families where both Dad & mum have dies of cancers (mainly because the wife had to wash the clothes of the husband and was exposed to chemicals...) the kids also ended up with cancers of some shape or form.
I have also spoken to the guys at DPI who have to spray noxious chemicals on siam weed to kill it and funny thing is both of them have had cancer...they also told me back when they first started the only used a small amount of chemical per application... but now they have to use 1000% more as it simply does not work otherwise! (as the plants have become resistant)
Plant based medicine may be one thing but when you start messing with the food chain and with foods that people eat on a daily basis that there has to be a cumulative effect on all of those toxins in the body.
you only have to look at some of the smarter Euro countries they have banned all GM foods and also have a ban in place on all imported GM foods.
countries like Denmark have banned food additives that are know to cause cancers yet are still readily available here in Aust.

To be quite honest i have never taken any form of anti-biotic as they not only kill the bad bacteria but all the good bacteria as well, why do you think people who take the end up with more colds and flu? because it weakens their immune system.
also where do you think most of the original medicines came from? they were all plant based until someone came up with the idea that they could make a cheaper synthetic version of the plant product and then they could make more profits! the trouble because of all the chemicals that are in foods and the amount of just plain crap that people eat they end up with all of these self inflicted ilnesses and what do they want to do? well the don't want to fix ther "lifestyle" and start eating a proper balenced diet.. no they just want to pop a pill and mask all the symptoms so they can just keep on doing what they are doing!
You take Traditional countries like Chinese, Japanese and so on that still follow a traditional diet, they do not have anywhere near the amount of illness as the western society does, yet if you put those same traditional people on a "traditional western diet' then within 10 years they start dropping like flies also with exactly the same diseases.

i used to use a lot of chemical products in my younger days and they used to play havoc with my system, i would use anti perspirants and some up in lumps in my arm pits, i would use dandruff shampoo and if i did not use it for 2 days my scalp (and later my face )would turn all red itchy and very dry. but since i don't use the crap anymore i no longer have the problems (because your skin becomes dependant on them!) and if you eat proper wholesome unprocessed food you don't stink as much when you sweat because you are not trying to push all the toxic substances out thru your skin!
No you have not changed my mind on GM foods as far as i am concerned if the only crop left on earth was a GM crop (and sooner or later that will happen with monsanto taking control over the worlds seed supplies...) then yes i would starve to death.....
The ideology of GM foods is that "they will help feed the starving and food security, you know who really started those rumours MONSANTO so they could push thru with their GM trial on the promise that it will "improved yields" and has that happened? NO! plain fact of the matter GM crops produce NO higher yields than traditional commercial crops, it is the same with chemical fertilizers the promised a revolution that would increase yields and maximize profits.... well yes threat was true for a few years but soon after that the crops started going down hill...so they had to use more chemical fertilizer......and the cycle kept on going of the farmers having to use more and more chemical fertilizers on the crops.
Did also you know that 70-80% of the world total grain supplies are actually fed to animals? and only around 20-30% is meant for "human" consumption, in my book there is no such thing as food security the plain and simple fact is people are to fussy for there own good! thousands of tonnes of perfectly fine produce is wasted on a daily basis just because it is not "perfect" (wrong shape, wrong size, has blemishes and so on)
I have seen on a first hand basis just how wasteful people are because the fruit/veg is not perfect!
we used to get "seconds" bananas from 1 farm to feed to our chooks and quite frankly there was nothing wrong with the banana's they were either to big ,too small or had marks on the skin so out they go and as the farmer stated they just simply cannot sell them because the consumer does not want them!

The same can be said for woolies we also used to get "scraps" from them to feed to our animals and on average we would get 10 x 60ltr bins of fresh produce every 3 days and what was wrong with the produce you may ask? well nothing! again some had marks some was stock that was left from the last weeks batch, but most of it was because the produce did not meet the "standard of the consumer" so out it goes.
The store manager told us that they cannot return it back to the supplier as they do not want it, so it then gets dumped in landfill (or we feed it to our animals).
So basically 35% of a bunch of bananas is wasted and a banana farm can process anything upto 200+ bunches a day that equals alot of wastage in my book and this is only from one farm on one day.
it is the same with Woolies 600+ltrs of food wasted every few days just because it does not meet the standard.
Then there are also the likes suppliers and wholesalers that reject food for similar reasons so that equals more wastage.
So if you multiply all that wasted perfectly good produce by all of the Wollies,coles, IGA and other supermarkets right around Australia you can see that adds up to a lot of wasted perfectly fresh health food!
now you tell me there is a food shortage? people just need to open their eyes and stop being so blind to only wanting "perfectly proportioned foods" if they did then there would be a hell of alot more fresh produce to go around and the prices may even be cheaper as all the food that is disposed of in landfill we still pay for in the end as the supermarkets just add the cost of it onto the shelf price.
it seems to me that if you have your own ideas and can actually see what is happening to our "food" you are classed as an Extremist, but it is better than being Spoonfed a total load of hogwash just like the big corporations are trying to tell you and everybody follows along like sheep! as far as i can see the only "tool" that GN tech would be is a shovel! and that would be to dig your own grave with....
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#1118871 - 09/08/2012 10:08 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
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Round one to the extremist.....Tell me this if GM foods are so "safe" then why do the food companies not label their foods as containing GM ingredients? "Now packed full of genetically modified goodness!"
Why do they not put the plain and simple truth on the packaging? because that plain and simple fact is that NOBODY would buy that product if they could physically see that it contained GM ingredients, the only way they can successfully add GM ingredients into foods is to "hide" them in the minor ingredients.
The other thing with GM foods is the GM producers play on peoples emotions, fears and weaknesses by constantly trotting out the same old line of "future food security" and "one day we will run out of food" and everybody just takes it on board as gospel.

The fact is that "breeders" only tend to focus on one or 2 strains of plant (mainly because that particular variety has "more commercial value") and then all the other older traditional varieties are left to go extinct because they do not have the great commercial value so then you end up with a situation like the great irish potato famine where their entire crop was wiped out all because everybody planted the exact same strain of potato.

Like all the rubbish promoted about GM and it's HUGE ability to produce HIGHER yields again and again time and nature proves them wrong! This is part of a recent article on the GM corn crops.
The corn rootworm product is supposed to reduce the need to put insecticides into the soil, essentially making the corn plants toxic to the worms that try to feed on their roots.

But plant scientists have recently found evidence that the genetic modification is losing its effectiveness, making the plants vulnerable to rootworm damage and potentially significant production losses.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/09/us-monsanto-corn-idUSBRE82815Z20120309



GM really should stand for greater mortality....




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#1119302 - 10/08/2012 13:35 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
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#1120206 - 15/08/2012 10:02 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
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This must tell you something! even MONSANTO EMPLOYEE'S wont even eat GM foods!

The fight to ban genetically modified foods has won more converts — some employees of Monsanto the company that is doing the most to promote GM products.

The Independent newspaper reports that there is a notice in the cafeteria of the Monsanto pharmaceutical factory is High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, advising customers “as far as practicable, GM soya and maize (has been removed) from all food products served in our restaurant. We have taken the steps to ensure that you, the customer, can feel confident in the food we serve.”

The notice was posted by the Sutcliffe Catering Group.

Monsanto confirms the authenticity of the notice, but company spokesman Tony Coombes says the only reason for the GM-free foods is because the company “believes in choice.” Coombes says in other Monsanto locations employees are happy to eat GM foods because they are “sprayed with fewer chemicals.”

Adrian Bebb with Friends of the Earth says the notice in the Buckinghamshire plant is hard to misinterpret. “The public has made its concerns about GM ingredients very clear – now it appears that even Monsanto’s own catering firm has no confidence in this new technology.”

http://crisisboom.com/2011/08/22/gm-foods-not-served-in-monsanto-cafeteria/#more-8863
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#1120420 - 16/08/2012 10:38 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence. [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
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Is this where the "there is no problems with genetically modified organisms is headed?"
US Army: 'Super Soldier' Genetically Modified Humans Won't Need Food, Sleep

Anthony Gucciardi
NaturalSociety
Mon, 13 Aug 2012 14:04 CDT

© Natural Society
The next frontier of genetic modification is not centered around a certain fruit or vegetable, but humans. More specifically, military personnel. Genetically modified humans is the next venture for biotechnology companies working with the United States military, with the admitted goal of producing a 'super soldier' that does not require food or sleep to perform Olympic-style physical feats.

The genetically modified humans, or 'super soldiers', will even be able to regrow limbsthat were destroyed by enemy fire and live off of their fat stores for extreme lengths of time.

Backed by $2 billion a year in funding, the Pentagon's Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) recently unleashed the news after years of secret experimentation and study.

The organization did not say whether or not genetically modified humans currently exist to such an extent, however it is known based on previous reports that human chimeras have already been created outside of the public spotlight. Such scientific experiments have drawn fire from scientists and activists alike, who are demanding for laws to forbid the creation of 'monsters'.

As of right now, DARPA has a functioning exoskeleton that enables soldiers to run far faster and handle heavy weights. This is but a step in the direct of full modification of the genetic coding of soldiers.

DARPA, of course, has earned the nickname of the 'mad scientist' wing for its rampant experiments in modifying life and fusing biology and technology. In working with killer drones, DARPA earlier this year was developing research into contact lens-mounted displays that could transport information from drones into the eyeballs of soldiers. Furthermore, the agency is also developing helmets in which the soldiers could communicate 'telepathically' with the kill drones.

The announcement ties in with the 2045 project, which I've covered in the past. The project offers 'immortality' to the wealthy elite who financially back it, and touts artificial bodies and brains for humans to achieve 'immortality'. This entire system, of course, ties into a larger 'singularity' project as outlined by the creator of the 2045 plan and others like Ray Kurzweil. In a nut shell, 'consciousness singularity' can be defined by a merging of all 'transhuman' bodies into one 'hive mind' of sorts. Likely a massive super computer of some sorts that has full control over the minds of those 'hooked in'.

It truly sounds insane, yet it is plainly stated out in the open. A number of issues arise from this singularity plan (not to even mention the fact that 'soldiers' are slowly becoming more of DARPA creations than human), such as the serious threat to humanity's very integrity. We've seen the many issues regarding traditional GMOs on public health and the environment, now what about human modification?

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/249562...Need-Food-Sleep
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