Page 188 of 323 < 1 2 ... 186 187 188 189 190 ... 322 323 >
Topic Options
#1102513 - 03/05/2012 14:21 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Bill Illis Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 11/07/2010
Posts: 915
Originally Posted By: CeeBee


Whenever a skeptic makes the cherry picked misleading and incorrect claim that there has been no increase in global temperatures for the last 15 years I'll post this image to set the record straight.



http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/6/4/044022



You mean the adjustments done by Tamino/Grant Foster ??


What could possibly go wrong with that.


Actually, there are many of them.

One of the problems in Foster et al 2011 is the way the solar cycle influence was handled. First he used the PMOD Composite data which uses satelite instruments that are known to be suffering from degradation. Noone is using this anymore - (except for people who want to distort the record). They are trying to fix it but haven't got that done yet. It has a spurious decline of about 0.5 W/m2 (half a solar cycle) in the recent years which means that the warming trend in the last 5 years is more upwards from what it really should be.

Secondly, when you do a regression of the PMOD composite or any TSI data against the temperature record for 1979 to 2010, you end up with a Negative Coefficient - the opposite to that expected. Normally that would cause one to drop the signal or try to figure out some other way to account for it. Tamino just Inverted the sign instead. Yes.

And then there is no natural ocean cycles such as the AMO or the PDO in this reconstruction. What? Everyone including climate scientists themselves think these are geniune cycles. he included the ENSO in his reconstruction but not the AMO or PDO. Tamino even included the AMO in his basic dataset but then decided against using it because the warming trend gets cut by two-thirds.

So it is not "adjusted temperatures", it is just Foster-Propaganda designed to have an influence on gullible people.

So go on using since it was meant for people who like their temperature lines going up but don't for a minute think it is accurate.

Top
#1102519 - 03/05/2012 14:58 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 2983
Loc: Brisbane
Originally Posted By: CeeBee

For someone that claims they accept the peer reviewed science on AGW your posts sure do contradict that claim.

You're full of wild conspiracy theories with nought to back them up.


Did you actually even read the climategate emails Ceebee or simply accept the pathetic "out of context" excuse (which they provided no evidence to support) in blind faith.

Its blatantly obvious from the content of those emails how horribly tainted the peer review process in climate science has become.

Go ahead and throw around "conspiracy theory" tags all you like. It doesn't make the climate science peer review process any more credible. It simply demonstrates your unwillingness to accept the obvious.

Why do you think there is such a mistrust of climate science in general today?

Since your so blindingly ignorant I'll provide an example. This is Phil Jones of the University of East Anglia in relation to a paper by Soon and Baliunas published in Climate Research in 2003, reviewing the literature on temperature change during the recent millennium.

Quote:
I think the skeptics will use this paper to their own ends and it will set paleo back a number of years if it goes unchallenged. I will be emailing the journal to tell them I’m having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor, a well-known skeptic in NZ. A CRU person is on the board but papers get dealt with by the editor assigned by Hans von Storch.


to which Michael Mann replied:
Quote:
This was the danger of always criticising the skeptics for not publishing in the “peer-reviewed literature”. Obviously, they found a solution to that — take over a journal! So what do we do about this? I think we have to stop considering “Climate Research” as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. We would also need to consider what we tell or request of our more reasonable colleagues who currently sit on the editorial board…


How about Tom Wigley's

Quote:
If you think that Saiers is in the greenhouse skeptics camp, then, if we can find documentary evidence of this, we could go through official AGU channels to get him ousted.


AGU being who published your recently linked Arctic Ice peice Ceebee.

And another:

Quote:
I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. K and I will keep them out somehow-even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!


And lets finish with this about Real Climate, the prime pro-CAGW blog:

Quote:
I wanted you guys to know that you're free to use RC in any way you think would be helpful. Gavin and I are going to be careful about what comments we screen through.... We can hold comments up in the queue and contact you about whether or not you think they should be screened through or not, and if so, any comments you'd like us to include.

[T]hink of RC as a resource that is at your disposal.... We'll use our best discretion to make sure the skeptics don't get to use the RC comments as a megaphone.


So keep harping on about peer review and "wild conspiracy theories" Ceebee. Unfortunately, many people (seemingly unlike yourself) actually took the time to acquaint themselves with the content of the climategate emails rather than just accepting the lame "out of context" excuse from the team and they are well aware of the standard of peer review in climate science today.

Top
#1102524 - 03/05/2012 15:21 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Locke]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2338

*Yawn* A couple of guys behaving badly and you tar the entire global scientific community with the same brush.

Kinda unfair and way out of proportion doncha think? The fizzlegate saga was a non event. The worlds moved on - get over it.

Top
#1102529 - 03/05/2012 15:51 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Bill Illis]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2338
Originally Posted By: Bill Illis
Originally Posted By: CeeBee


Whenever a skeptic makes the cherry picked misleading and incorrect claim that there has been no increase in global temperatures for the last 15 years I'll post this image to set the record straight.



http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/6/4/044022



You mean the adjustments done by Tamino/Grant Foster ??


What could possibly go wrong with that.


Actually, there are many of them.

One of the problems in Foster et al 2011 is the way the solar cycle influence was handled. First he used the PMOD Composite data which uses satelite instruments that are known to be suffering from degradation. Noone is using this anymore - (except for people who want to distort the record). They are trying to fix it but haven't got that done yet. It has a spurious decline of about 0.5 W/m2 (half a solar cycle) in the recent years which means that the warming trend in the last 5 years is more upwards from what it really should be.

Secondly, when you do a regression of the PMOD composite or any TSI data against the temperature record for 1979 to 2010, you end up with a Negative Coefficient - the opposite to that expected. Normally that would cause one to drop the signal or try to figure out some other way to account for it. Tamino just Inverted the sign instead. Yes.

And then there is no natural ocean cycles such as the AMO or the PDO in this reconstruction. What? Everyone including climate scientists themselves think these are geniune cycles. he included the ENSO in his reconstruction but not the AMO or PDO. Tamino even included the AMO in his basic dataset but then decided against using it because the warming trend gets cut by two-thirds.

So it is not "adjusted temperatures", it is just Foster-Propaganda designed to have an influence on gullible people.

So go on using since it was meant for people who like their temperature lines going up but don't for a minute think it is accurate.



There is not an issue with PMOD Composite data. If you claim there is then back it up with evidence.

The AMO and PDO are merely ocean oscillations. ENSO has a much more significant impact. Your argument therefore is moot.

Top
#1102531 - 03/05/2012 16:21 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 2983
Loc: Brisbane
Originally Posted By: CeeBee

*Yawn* A couple of guys behaving badly and you tar the entire global scientific community with the same brush.

Kinda unfair and way out of proportion doncha think? The fizzlegate saga was a non event. The worlds moved on - get over it.



Now I'm beginning to wonder whether your trolling Ceebee. The "couple of guys behaving badly" are at the very core of the published science on global temperature trends.

Without these guys and their efforts there would be no CAGW scare campaign. Al Gore would never have had the hockey stick (or his mockumentary "an Inconvenient Peice of BS").

And you wouldn't have most of your lovely charts showing how much temps have shot up.

They represent a who's who in climate science today. "couple of guys behaving badly" I can't believe you could say that.

Google search Phil Jones, Michael Mann and Gavin Schmidt and you get 1.9, 1.0 and 1.78 million hits respectively. Nearly on a par with what you get for the godfather of the CAGW movement James Hansen.

In reality examination of the contents of the climategate emails has revealed a group of approximately 50 scientists exercising a massive level of control over the entire climate science peer review process. (we are constantly told of the tens of thousands of scientists who are in agreement). I have identified just a few who happen to be some of the biggest names in field of climate science.

You need to do a little better than a "couple of guys behaving badly". I find your choice of terminology interesting though in that it would seem that you agree that their behaviour was inappropriate.

Finally, though you argue, the world has moved on from Climategate, articles you have recently linked serve to confirm something is still wrong in the field of climate science peer review and the climategate emails still sit in the background clarifying just what it is that is so wrong.

Top
#1102533 - 03/05/2012 16:47 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Locke]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3577
Loc: Just a bit north of the "coath...
The intent is to provoke someone to reply a bit rashly so that one of the more sympathetic mods will ban them or close the thread. As has happened so many times in he past. Or else get the usual posters to move somewhere else.



Edited by teckert (03/05/2012 19:09)
Edit Reason: removed personal remarks after notification
_________________________
Exceptions are pernicious, they conceal laws...

Top
#1102555 - 03/05/2012 18:14 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12715
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/05/02/la-nada-el-nino-or-three-peat-la-nina-for-201213-enso-season/ a lively discussion going on about the possibilty of another La Nina or at least a Neutral 12 months period and what that will do for warm ocean currents, temprature records etc.

I'm looking forward to a better cyclone season because this years has been an absolute bummer for me in Townsville. Yet another warmista prediction that has failed again and again, to eventuate.


Edited by teckert (03/05/2012 19:10)
Edit Reason: removed personal remarks after notification
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

Top
#1102570 - 03/05/2012 20:27 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 5416
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
What does that look like CB!

Top
#1102587 - 03/05/2012 22:30 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3577
Loc: Just a bit north of the "coath...
Originally Posted By: CeeBee

*Yawn* A couple of guys behaving badly and you tar the entire global scientific community with the same brush.

Kinda unfair and way out of proportion doncha think? The fizzlegate saga was a non event. The worlds moved on - get over it.



As usual, "climatescientists" have again been caught lying Gleicking. 

A year ago these were the headlines:

Quote:
Leading climate scientists in Australia are being subjected to an escalating campaign of death threats and abusive phone calls...


A story that was even carried by Nature! http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/06/australian_climate_scientists.html

The truth?  

Privacy Commisioner rules that it's essentially a pack of lies.
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2012/05/anu-death-threat-claims-debunked-the-australian/

Just another example of "climatescience" strategy: If you can't beat them with data and truth, you just have to silence them by telling lies about them.... Hey - Gleick's a hero now!
_________________________
Exceptions are pernicious, they conceal laws...

Top
#1102624 - 04/05/2012 09:30 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12715
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Yes I read that yesterday and the follow up story http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/05/03/pa...than-yesterday/ on WUWT this morning Arnost.

In my opinion it appears to be a badly executed attempt by the supposed targets of the threats to garner support for themselves. In other words a troll for sympathy.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

Top
#1102625 - 04/05/2012 09:37 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12715
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Originally Posted By: Baldrick
Baldrick May 3, 2012 at 9:31 am

Good one Simon … hand wringing scientists fake death threat emails … ‘Wimpgate’ sounds appropriate.

http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2012/05/anu-death-threat-claims-debunked-the-australian/
So Wimpgate it is.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

Top
#1102626 - 04/05/2012 09:43 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2338
Originally Posted By: bd bucketingdown
What does that look like CB!


Looks like a warming tend.

Yup, it's a warming trend alright...



Why the Global Warming Skeptics Are Wrong

Top
#1102635 - 04/05/2012 10:13 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Bill Illis Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 11/07/2010
Posts: 915
Originally Posted By: CeeBee

Looks like a warming tend.
Yup, it's a warming trend alright...

Why the Global Warming Skeptics Are Wrong



Firt of all, no global temperture series has 0.8C of warming.

Secondly, that chart covers over 130 years.

If we have the same trend for the next 90 years to 2100, we are only at 1.5C of warming.

The IPCC prediction is 3.25C by 2100.

So you see a line going up.

I see a line that will get to something under 1.5C by 2100 when everything possible is taken into account.

Do you see how a "line going up" is not the same thing as global warming theory being accurate because every way we look at it, less than half the warming seems to be show up.

"Line going up less than half as much as it supposed to" is the caption you should put above it.




Edited by Bill Illis (04/05/2012 10:14)

Top
#1102637 - 04/05/2012 10:32 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Bill Illis]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12715
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Cuddly symbols not coooperating in climate panic

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/2012/04/cuddly-symbols-not-coooperating-climate-panic/525971

Quote:
In a better world, debates about science — and nearly everything else — would be conducted without resort to demagoguery, sentimentality, cynical manipulation, or hysteria. In the world we inhabit, those tactics are dismayingly routine. Still, the great weakness of overwrought predictions of doom is that they can be checked.


Exactly the point I and others have been making for years.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

Top
#1102639 - 04/05/2012 10:38 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Bill Illis]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2338
Originally Posted By: Bill Illis
Originally Posted By: CeeBee

Looks like a warming tend.
Yup, it's a warming trend alright...

Why the Global Warming Skeptics Are Wrong





Firt of all, no global temperture series has 0.8C of warming.

Secondly, that chart covers over 130 years.

If we have the same trend for the next 90 years to 2100, we are only at 1.5C of warming.

The IPCC prediction is 3.25C by 2100.

So you see a line going up.

I see a line that will get to something under 1.5C by 2100 when everything possible is taken into account.

Do you see how a "line going up" is not the same thing as global warming theory being accurate because every way we look at it, less than half the warming seems to be show up.

"Line going up less than half as much as it supposed to" is the caption you should put above it.




CO2 levels will keep on increasing (unless we do something to stop it) therefore the rise in temps will increase over time.

Top
#1102642 - 04/05/2012 10:53 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2338
Originally Posted By: Sir BoabTree
Cuddly symbols not coooperating in climate panic

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/2012/04/cuddly-symbols-not-coooperating-climate-panic/525971

Quote:
In a better world, debates about science — and nearly everything else — would be conducted without resort to demagoguery, sentimentality, cynical manipulation, or hysteria. In the world we inhabit, those tactics are dismayingly routine. Still, the great weakness of overwrought predictions of doom is that they can be checked.


Exactly the point I and others have been making for years.


Why do you rely on the opinion from a journalist for your facts? I prefer the actual science for my facts...

Long-distance swimming by polar bears (Ursus maritimus) of the southern Beaufort Sea during years of extensive open water

ABSTRACT

Polar bears (Ursus maritimus Phipps, 1774) depend on sea ice for catching marine mammal prey. Recent sea-ice declines have been linked to reductions in body condition, survival, and population size. Reduced foraging opportunity is hypothesized to be the primary cause of sea-ice-linked declines, but the costs of travel through a deteriorated sea-ice environment also may be a factor. We used movement data from 52 adult female polar bears wearing Global Positioning System (GPS) collars, including some with dependent young, to document long-distance swimming (>50 km) by polar bears in the southern Beaufort and Chukchi seas. During 6 years (2004–2009), we identified 50 long-distance swims by 20 bears. Swim duration and distance ranged from 0.7 to 9.7 days (mean = 3.4 days) and 53.7 to 687.1 km (mean = 154.2 km), respectively. Frequency of swimming appeared to increase over the course of the study. We show that adult female polar bears and their cubs are capable of swimming long distances during periods when extensive areas of open water are present. However, long-distance swimming appears to have higher energetic demands than moving over sea ice. Our observations suggest long-distance swimming is a behavioral response to declining summer sea-ice conditions.

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/z2012-033?journalCode=cjz


Top
#1102643 - 04/05/2012 10:54 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
Originally Posted By: Ceebee
CO2 levels will keep on increasing (unless we do something to stop it) therefore the rise in temps will increase over time.

Well Ceebee in the light of your claim as above, I ask once again as you seem incapable of answering this question, I am still waiting for that, to use a favorite word from the warmista lexicon, "unequivocal peer reviewed" and observed empirical confirmation from you that increasing levels of CO2 are alone responsible for the recent [ dangerously ? ] increasing global temperatures and observed empirical observations that those increases in the recent global temperatures cannot be explained solely as due to just the normal, natural forces of Nature that have driven global climate changes for the previous 4.5 billion years of this planet's existence?




Top
#1102650 - 04/05/2012 11:21 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
And I might as well ask once again a couple of those other questions which you, CeeBee seem to be incapable of answering , questions that are fundamental to the entire CAGW dogma and ideology and which are basic to the direction which the alarmists want to take mankind.

To ask CeeBee two questions

1 / As You apparently believe the planet is warming dangerously, by how much and how many degrees in your opinion should mankind be attempting to lower the global temperatures to a achieve a safe and satisfactory global temperature?.

2 / What is the average global temperature which in your opinion, mankind should be attempting to achieve by the controlling of CO2 and other dangerous global warming greenhouse gases?

.

Top
#1102651 - 04/05/2012 11:22 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2338
Originally Posted By: ROM
Originally Posted By: Ceebee
CO2 levels will keep on increasing (unless we do something to stop it) therefore the rise in temps will increase over time.

Well Ceebee in the light of your claim as above, I ask once again as you seem incapable of answering this question, I am still waiting for that, to use a favorite word from the warmista lexicon, "unequivocal peer reviewed" and observed empirical confirmation from you that increasing levels of CO2 are alone responsible for the recent [ dangerously ? ] increasing global temperatures and observed empirical observations that those increases in the recent global temperatures cannot be explained solely as due to just the normal, natural forces of Nature that have driven global climate changes for the previous 4.5 billion years of this planet's existence?



Are you forgetting that I gave you links that answered your questions and you ignored the science. Heck, even Roy Spencer, Richard Lindzen and Anthony Watts accept that increasing levels of CO2 due to human activity is responsible for the current warming. It's time you stopped denying the overwhelming observational evidence and the science.

Top
#1102654 - 04/05/2012 11:37 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
And as an addendum to the above questions and a potential view of our future if the alarmists ever succeeded in lowering global temperatures;
From Pierre Gosselin's "NoTricksZone" ; translated from German;

Italian Paleoclimatologists Discover Little Ice Age Extended Well Beyond North Atlantic Region

Quote:
The climate of the last 10,000 years has been everything except stable, and global mean temperatures fluctuated by more than 1°C. Today’s “Modern Warm Period” was preceded by the Little Ice Age (LIA), which lasted from 1300 to 1850.

The high point of the Little Ice Age occurred during a period of weak solar activity from 1645-1715, called the Maunder Minimum. During this time, Central Europe turned bitter cold, glaciers grew and the Thames River even froze over in the wintertime. During the cold winter of 1683/1684, the ground froze more than a meter deep in Southern England.

The Little Ice Age is widely known for the North Atlantic region of Northern Europe, and for this reason some scientists falsely assumed that it had been a regional phenomenon and it was balanced out by other areas on the planet being warmer. However, this hypothesis has not been confirmed as a growing body of scientific literature shows that all continents were hit by the LIA.

In the Mediterranean region there have been no reliable temperature reconstructions from during this period. The existing tree-ring temperature reconstructions for the last 500 years have been regarded as riddled with problems as tree rings in some cases in the Alps and upper northern latitudes are turning out to be an unsuitable method for climate reconstructions.
&

Extreme cold with snow occurred in 16 of 25 winters between 1675 and 1700. Especially the years 1665, 1677, 1684, 1687 and 1692 temperatures fell sharply and rivers on the Italian peninsula froze. From 1682 to 1707 a number of flooding catastrophes occurred in Northern Italy. Extremely cold winters struck between 1684 and 1694 and an especially cold winter in 1709. The Venetian Lagoon froze over in 1684 and 1709. The lowest temperature was measured in 1684. In Sicily a series of catastrophic harvests hit in the 1690s. For the cold of the 1683/1684 winter, a statistical period of repetition of 1000 years was calculated.


And the reality of that LIA period as seen by a Dutch artist.

Top
Page 188 of 323 < 1 2 ... 186 187 188 189 190 ... 322 323 >


Who's Online
8 registered (Scottie A, cloudbreak, pogonantha, Thunder Front, 4 invisible), 152 Guests and 48 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Today's Birthdays
poida84
Forum Stats
27425 Members
32 Forums
21909 Topics
1226170 Posts

Max Online: 2925 @ 02/02/2011 22:23
Satellite Image
Advertisement