#1102660 - 04/05/2012 12:01
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: ROM]
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Weatherzone Addict
Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 2983
Loc: Brisbane
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Hey Ceebee. I will also accept that human induced GHG's have been responsible for some portion of the warming trend in the global temperature record.
But I would query the assertion that if CO2 keeps rising linearly then temps will continue to so also. The science clearly shows the relationship is not linear and that in fact we approaching the limits at which increased concentrations of CO2 alone in the atmosphere can directly contribute to increased global temperatures.
Beyond this there is a reliance on unproven positive feedback loops to produce further temperature change. If you want to discuss the science that is what it shows.
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#1102662 - 04/05/2012 12:08
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: ROM]
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Meteorological Motor Mouth
Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12715
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
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However, long-distance swimming appears to have higher energetic demands than moving over sea ice. Our observations suggest long-distance swimming is a behavioral response to declining summer sea-ice conditions.
Who would have thought that a bear, adapted to live in the sea and ice and who's very latin name Ursus maritimus means literally Sea Bear would be able to swim long distances. I mean its not like the artic hasn't been ice free before now is it? Or that they don't actively hunt in open water? It must really grate on the warmer-worriers that there aren't hundreds and hundreds of photos of mass drownings of polar bears that they can use as propaganda posters to back up their nonsense. In case you missed it allow me to point out the elephant in the room. 1)Polar bears and cubs swan vast distances wearing tracking collars. 2) None of them drowned, even after swimming distances up to 671 kilometers. 3) They where still alive after the survey had finished. They are doing what they have eveloved to do. If they hadn't been able to swim those distances they would have died in the attempt right? Don't you just hate it when nature refuses to cooperate with a theory?
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!! Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming
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#1102669 - 04/05/2012 12:27
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: ROM]
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Weatherzone Addict
Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2340
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Well perhaps you could refresh our memories as to just where you provided that empirical observed, undoubted proof that increasing CO2 is the sole reason for creating a warming climate and the claimed CAGW.
And proof please that the recent past increases in temperature are not just a normal natural change in the global climate that has occurred times without number in the life of the planet.
You provided your so called links, none of which had ANY observed empirical evidence that proved that increasing CO2 had raised and was capable of raising global temperatures leading to a CAGW. Lots of correlation claims but no proof of causation at all from increasing CO2 Lots of arm waving and caveats in those supposed links but nothing in the way of "proven empirically observed proof" for your beliefs in the power of increasing CO2 as the reason for the increased global temperatures..
FAIL once again. The only FAIL here is your refusal to accept the science. Obviously empirical peer reviewed science is not enough evidence for ROM. I wonder what form the evidence would need to be in in order for ROM to accept it?
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#1102679 - 04/05/2012 13:05
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: CeeBee]
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Weatherzone Addict
Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3577
Loc: Just a bit north of the "coath...
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Empirical peer reviewed science. WTF? No such thing! See for example Reykjavik. The Icelandic Met office data is in blue below. Data from thermometers - is empirical according to normal definition. The red is from peer reviewed GISS. (Peer reviewed Hansen, J., R. Ruedy, Mki. Sato, and K. Lo, 2010: Global surface temperature change. Rev. Geophys., 48, RG4004, doi:10.1029/2010RG000345.  Mate - we accept the science. You accept the usual pack of lies.
Edited by Arnost (04/05/2012 13:06)
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Exceptions are pernicious, they conceal laws...
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#1102680 - 04/05/2012 13:06
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: CeeBee]
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Meteorological Motor Mouth
Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
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You still haven't provided that empirical observed proof that increasing CO2 is responsible for the increases in global temperatures or will be responsible for the CAGW CeeBee, despite your hand waving exercise.
And those other two questions again!
1 / As You apparently believe the planet is warming dangerously, by how much and how many degrees in your opinion should mankind be attempting to lower the global temperatures to a achieve a safe and satisfactory global temperature?.
2 / What is the average global temperature which in your opinion, mankind should be attempting to achieve by the controlling of CO2 and other dangerous global warming greenhouse gases?
And if you can't provide answers to those simple but fundamental questions above regarding your CAGW beliefs, you can't have any idea on where you with are going with your ideology or why you are going there and that is about the same level of irrational ideological belief that is strikingly similar to one of the similarly irrational "the World will end on friday at 3 pm" cults.
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#1102690 - 04/05/2012 13:35
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: Arnost]
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Weather Freak
Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
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Do you honestly think The Australian is telling the truth?
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#1102692 - 04/05/2012 13:39
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: __PG__]
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Meteorological Motor Mouth
Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12715
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
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If you read the entire article there is a link to the Privacy Commisions report which they cut and pasted into the story PG, so in this case yes I do believe them.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!! Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming
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#1102693 - 04/05/2012 13:41
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: SBT]
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Weather Freak
Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
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If you read the entire article there is a link to the Privacy Commisions report which they cut and pasted into the story PG, so in this case yes I do believe them. Have you read the judgement of the commission yourself then?
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#1102696 - 04/05/2012 13:55
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: __PG__]
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Meteorological Motor Mouth
Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
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Ah! So now _PG_ even questions whether the Privacy Commissioner is honest because he gave a ruling that didn't suit PG's ideology and dogma!
Don't know why you aren't working for Hansen's GISS, _PG_. It seems that you even have this amazing ability to be able to selectively "adjust" even a straight news story that doesn't fit your version of events so as to fit your global warming ideology. You would go well in GISS and CRU and the IPCC in the "temperature adjustment" and media propaganda sections.
Of course if the Privacy Commissioner's report would have supported those now totally non credible and grossly inflammatory claims of death threats to those "warmist scientists" [ ? ] the skeptics would have been absolutely smothered in global warming self righteous indignation.
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#1102697 - 04/05/2012 13:57
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: ROM]
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Weather Freak
Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
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Have you read the judgement yourself ROM? Are you familiar with the FOI laws?
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#1102702 - 04/05/2012 14:09
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: __PG__]
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Weatherzone Addict
Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3577
Loc: Just a bit north of the "coath...
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http://www.oaic.gov.au/publications/decisions/2012-AICmr12.pdf10. Having inspected the documents, I have determined that 10 of the documents, in the form of emails, do not contain threats to kill or threats of harm. These documents contain abuse in the sense that they contain insulting and offensive language. 11. One document, again in the form of an email, contains a recollection of an exchange which occurred during an off-campus event sponsored by members of the Climate Change Institute and other governmental agencies. The ANU responded to the conduct and comments described in the email as a security threat
Edited by Arnost (04/05/2012 14:16)
_________________________
Exceptions are pernicious, they conceal laws...
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#1102706 - 04/05/2012 14:22
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: Arnost]
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Meteorological Motor Mouth
Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
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Familiar with the FOI? Can't say that I am PG or perhaps I should say that I am only familiar with them to the point where we, as in my business partner and I obtained the relevant and current State Cabinet minutes on a legal case we had with the State government of the time plus a 2" thick pile of internal documents on our case from one of the major departments of the state government.
And we all know just how the FOI rules are immediately [ ab]used when the warmists think they may be able to discredit a skeptic. But those same FOI rules are fought tooth and nail by the alarmist warmists to prevent anything at all on their activities being released and we only have to look at this latest case here in Australia where the universities and the warmist alarmists fought furiously to prevent the release of some quite innocuous e-mails because as it turned out because it destroyed their lying claims that they had received death threats.
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#1102709 - 04/05/2012 14:38
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: ROM]
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Weather Freak
Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
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I'd wait for this to play out in the non-Murdoch media before jumping to conclusions if I were you. Additional quotes from the Judgement 14. I give separate consideration to the email describing a participant's behaviour and comments at the off-campus event which the ANU regarded as threatening. In my view, the exchange as described in the email could be regarded as intimidating and at its highest perhaps alluding to a threat. In its reasons for decision, the ANU stated that it did not report this incident to the AFP because the incident occurred off-campus and it is incumbent upon people who are directly involved in an incident to make a first person report to the police. The ANU advised that University security encouraged the staff member to report the incident to police. I consider the danger to life or physical safety in this case to be only a possibility, not a real chance.
15. The question is how release of the documents could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any person. In other words, the question is whether release of the documents could be expected to create the risk, not whether the documents reflect an existing credible threat. Even if the threats were highly credible, the question would be how release of the documents would add to the expected threat.
The judgement does not determine the strength of the existing threats. The judgement determined that releasing the documents would not create additional threats and risk.
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#1102713 - 04/05/2012 15:10
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: Arnost]
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Weatherzone Addict
Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2340
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Empirical peer reviewed science. WTF? No such thing! See for example Reykjavik. The Icelandic Met office data is in blue below. Data from thermometers - is empirical according to normal definition. The red is from peer reviewed GISS. (Peer reviewed Hansen, J., R. Ruedy, Mki. Sato, and K. Lo, 2010: Global surface temperature change. Rev. Geophys., 48, RG4004, doi:10.1029/2010RG000345.  Mate - we accept the science. You accept the usual pack of lies. If there's no such thing as an empirical peer reviewed science paper then ROM's requests for them are a waste of time hey! ( btw, a Google scholar search on empirical science brings up over 3,000,000 hits - better not tell ROM) p.s. - The word empirical means information gained by experience, observation, or experiment.
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#1102716 - 04/05/2012 15:26
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: CeeBee]
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Meteorological Motor Mouth
Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6431
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You still haven't produced any papers or observed empirical evidence that CO2 is responsible for the past warming and that it is not the natural variations in the global climate that are responsible for any past warming but is CO2 only. Nor any evidence other than discredited computer models that rising CO2 will definitely lead to CAGW, CeeBee. And if it was out there I am sure you would have found it and be ramming it down my neck by now.
Nor have you answered those two questions I asked you.
The best you seem to be able to do is to try and bluff your way through and not very successfully either as your lack of evidence to support your dogma and ideology is becoming increasingly clear for all to see as is the case around the world for all those of your climate alarmist ideology.
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#1102725 - 04/05/2012 16:20
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: CeeBee]
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Weatherzone Addict
Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3577
Loc: Just a bit north of the "coath...
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If there's no such thing as an empirical peer reviewed science paper then ROM's requests for them are a waste of time hey!
( btw, a Google scholar search on empirical science brings up over 3,000,000 hits - better not tell ROM)
p.s. - The word empirical means information gained by experience, observation, or experiment.
Yes CB - there is empirical science. It deals (as you say) with that gained by observation and experiment. And then there is "climatescience" [which deals with statistics manipulation of, adjustments, fudging, hiding, and manufaturing of that data gained by observation and experiment]. Empirical data does not need peer review to be credible. It just is (or isn't). "Climatescience" however needs peer review to be credible. LOL. So: Are the Iceland Met thermometers correct or is GISS "climatescience" correct? I chose to accept what the thermometers say. What do you believe?
_________________________
Exceptions are pernicious, they conceal laws...
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#1102728 - 04/05/2012 16:46
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: Arnost]
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Weather Freak
Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
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Grahame Readfern reminds us here that Mr Pilgrim ordered that 11 documents turned up through a Freedom of Information request to the Australian National University could, against the wishes of the university, be released to the public.
Mr Pilgrim concluded that 10 of the 11 documents “contain abuse in the sense that they contain insulting and offensive language” but did not contain “threats to kill or threats of harm”.
Climate sceptic commentators and bloggers have taken this decision to mean that climate scientists have not received death threats and, on the face of it, that might seem like a fair conclusion.
Except they’ve ignored two key facts which undermine their conclusion.
The first, is that the FOI request only asked for correspondence covering a six month period from January to June 2011. What’s more, the request only asked for correspondence regarding six ANU academics. The report from the Privacy Commissioner made this clear.
Secondly, the original investigation which sparked the FOI request, published in The Canberra Times, found more than 30 climate scientists had received threats or abuse of one kind or another at universities across Australia and that this campaign had been going on for years. It wasn’t news to some of us. None of the emails I published on my blog were from scientists at ANU.
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#1102729 - 04/05/2012 16:46
Re: Interesting news articles about AGW
[Re: Arnost]
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Meteorological Motor Mouth
Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12715
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
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It would be a very simple measure to release the emails as photocopies or scans of the originals with the personal details redacted.
It isn't that hard. I have done it myself for security reasons for a FOI I was had to manage while in the Army. You just need a scapel and a steel ruler to literally chop out the personal details first and then scan them, print them off - stamp and certify as a true and correct copy of the original and detail why the redaction where made in the accompanying statement.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!! Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming
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