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#1105233 - 22/05/2012 13:12 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12670
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
And after the investigation you still believe that nonsense do you CeeBe? Really? Oh and in case you missed it Media Watch debunked teh whole affair and tore a few reporters new ones for not checking their facts. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3507732.htm

I suggest you read the attached document. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/1216_privacy.pdf

You should be able to recognise it as it is a real investigation, not something dreamed up by a reporter who has lied in the past to garner support for one of her pet causes.

You should actually recognise it as it has been posted previously and details in some depth why the threats where not taken seriously, but in case you missed it:
Originally Posted By: Privacy Commisioner titled: ‘I' and Australian National University [2012
AICmr 12 (26 April 2012)]

10. Having inspected the documents, I have determined that 10 of the documents, in the form of emails, do not contain threats to kill or threats of harm. These documents contain abuse in the sense that they contain insulting and offensive language.

11. One document, again in the form of an email, contains a recollection of an exchange which occurred during an off-campus event sponsored by members of the Climate Change Institute and other governmental agencies. The ANU responded to the conduct and comments described in the email as a security threat.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

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#1105234 - 22/05/2012 13:30 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12670
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
And now for a change of pace I offer up this;

http://www.whoi.edu/main/news-releases?tid=3622&cid=137709

New Study by WHOI Scientists Provides Baseline Measurements of Carbon in Arctic Ocean

Originally Posted By: Article in link above
One possible outcome of that scenario could be an increase of carbon dioxide in the region. As bacteria in Arctic Ocean use the new influx of carbon as a food source, they may create CO2 as a byproduct. A second possibility, Griffith posits, is that warming temperatures and melting sea ice might boost the production of phytoplankton, tiny plant-like organisms that live near the ocean’s surface and thrive on carbon dioxide in the water. As those phytoplankton die (or are eaten by other organisms and released as waste), they would sink to the sea floor, causing the carbon in their bodies to be sequestered in thick sediments—effectively removing the increased carbon from the environment.

“Those are just a few aspects of what might happen. But for every one that we think about, there could be 10 others that drive the system in a different direction,” says Griffith. “We don't yet have the kind of data to say anything definitive about how the Arctic would be affected by warming climate—but what we do have is a very important baseline of data to help evaluate changes that will happen in the future. Without that, you‘re unfortunately just guessing at how things change over time.”
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

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#1105261 - 22/05/2012 16:11 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
vpprt Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 21/12/2010
Posts: 208
Loc: Australia
Were we watching the same Media Watch?

Media Watch didn't debunk 'teh whole affair'. They were scathing of the ABC Online for not checking their facts and the Australian about the way it had 'debunked' the threat claims. The FOI thatapplied for six months of emails at one university.

Threats and abuse are dirceted to climate scientists in Australia. Here from the transcipt:
Originally Posted By: Media Watch Transcript
We were moved after two threatening incidents... both events (in late 2009 and early 2010) involved visitors coming unannounced into our offices and taking or threatening aggressive actions against me ... and another academic associated with the CCI.

\u2014 Professor Will Steffen, Executive Director, ANU Climate Change Institute, 17th May, 2012

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/1216_scientist.pdf

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#1105275 - 22/05/2012 17:59 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: vpprt]
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1520
Loc: Wangaratta
ABC 'updates' story on threats

IN the face of an independent assessment that undermined one of its most spectacular reports on climate change, the ABC has dismissed as "sceptics" those who questioned its accuracy.

The national broadcaster issued that statement yesterday in the form of a news "update" after flaws emerged in its reports that climate change scientists at the Australian National University had received death threats.

The flaws came to light after 11 emails held by ANU that purportedly contained death threats were examined by Privacy Commissioner Timothy Pilgrim, who ruled they contained abuse but no death threats.

That ruling, part of a successful Freedom of Information campaign by climate change blogger and lawyer Simon Turnill, is available on the website of the Australian Information Commissioner.

The findings undermine last year's reports by the ABC and The Canberra Times about death threats at the ANU, and led Media Watch host Jonathan Holmes to call last night for the ABC to clarify its reports.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business...x-1226362855627

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#1105276 - 22/05/2012 18:00 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Simmosturf]
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1520
Loc: Wangaratta
Climate experts should stop their cherry picking
From: The Australian May 22, 2012 12:00AM

IF Will Steffen wishes to stop the "phony, divisive, manufactured debate on climate science" then he must play his part and stop cherry-picking data that suits his case and ignoring the rest ("Articles back up Climate Commission's findings of a warming NSW", 21/5).

NASA satellite data tells us that average world temperatures have shown no statistically significant warming for almost 15 years. What is happening in western Sydney does not change that fact, nor does the colder and wetter year we are having in Canberra.

The world does not heat and cool as one and the climate has always varied, often by more than in recent times. As a climate scientist, Steffen must know this and his continued alarmist campaigns reflect poorly on him and on science.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opi...w-1226362753742

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#1105350 - 23/05/2012 08:44 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Simmosturf]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12670
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Second NASA Letter:

May 11, 2012

The Honorable Charles Bolden, Jr. 
NASA Administrator

NASA Headquarters

Washington, D.C. 20546-0001

Dear Charlie:

In our letter of March 28, 2012, we, the undersigned, respectfully requested that NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) refrain from including unproven remarks in public releases and websites.

On April 11th, Dr. Waleed Abdalati responded, holding that: “As an agency, NASA does not draw conclusions and issue ‘claims’ about research findings.”

Eight days later, at a senate hearing, Dr. Abdalati, did just that, concluding that Sea-Level rise within the next 87 years projects within a range of 0.2 meters to 2 meters, with lower ranges less likely while “the highest values are based on warmest of the temperature scenarios commonly considered for the remainder of the 21st century.” Abdalati added: “The consequences of a 1 meter rise in sea level by the end of this century would be very significant in terms of human well-being and economics, and potentially global socio-political stability.”

The range and imprecision of this conclusion is astounding!

“Commonly considered?” Is this science by poll? If hard data points to a provable rise, it should be stated with its probability. Can you imagine one of your predecessors, Dr. Thomas Paine, declaring, “Our Apollo 11 Lunar Lander’s target is the Sea of Tranquility, but we may make final descent within a range that includes Crater Clavius”?

We are not trying to stifle discourse, but undisciplined commentary, lacking in precision, is wholly inappropriate when NASA’s name and reputation is attached.

This letter should end the discussion, as a protracted discourse on this topic is not in NASA’s interest, but a commitment from you to equal or exceed the agency’s reputation for careful reliance upon rigorous science and accurate data most certainly is!

Join us, please, in encouraging your colleagues to achieve the level of excellence the world has come to expect from America’s National Aeronautics and Space Administration!

Waiting to do so is not an option!

[signed 41]

PS Waiting to send was not an option either –we have fewer signatures than the first, as not everyone was reachable and only one opted out.

/s/ Jack Barneburg, Jack – JSC, Space Shuttle Structures, Engineering Directorate, 34 years

/s/ Larry Bell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Cargo Engineering, Crew Syst. Div. 32 years

/s/ Jerry C. Bostick – JSC, Director of Mission Support, 23 years

/s/ Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist – astronaut, 5 years

/s/ Michael F. Collins, JSC, Chief, Flight Design and Dynamics Div., MOD, 41 years

/s/ Dr. Kenneth Cox – JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years

/s/ Walter Cunningham – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 7, 8 years

/s/ Dr. Donald M. Curry – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years

/s/ Leroy Day – Hdq. Deputy Director, Space Shuttle Program, 19 years

/s/Charles F. Deiterich – JSC, Mgr., Flight Operations Integration, MOD, 30 years

/s/ Dr. Harold Doiron – JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years

/s/ Grace Germany – JSC, Program Analyst, 35 years

/s/ Richard Gordon – JSC, Astronaut, Gemini Xi, Apollo 12, 9 years

/s/ Gerald D. Griffin – JSC, Apollo Flight Director, and Director of Johnson Space Center, 22 years

/s/ Thomas M. Grubbs – JSC, Chief, Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Branch, 31 years

/s/ David W. Heath – JSC, Reentry Specialist, MOD, 30 years

/s/ Miguel A. Hernandez, Jr. PE – JSC, Flight crew training and operations, 14 years

/s/ Enoch Jones – JSC, Mgr. SE&I, Shuttle Program Office, 26 years

/s/ Dr. Joseph Kerwin – JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years

/s/ Jack Knight – JSC, Chief, Advanced Operations and Development Div., MOD, 40 years

/s/ Dr. Christopher C. Kraft – JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years

/s/ Paul C. Kramer – JSC, Ass’t. for Planning Aeroscience and Flight Mechanics Div., Egr. Dir., 34 years

/s/ Dr. Lubert Leger – JSC, Ass’t. Chief Materials Div., Engr. Directorate, 30 years

/s/ Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years

/s/ Donald K. McCutchen – JSC, Project Engineer – Space Shuttle and ISS Program Offices, 33 years

/s/ Richard McFarland – ARC, Mgr. Tech development VMS & Motion Simulators, 28 years

/s/ Thomas L. (Tom) Moser – Hdq. Dep. Assoc. Admin. & Director, Space Station Program, 28 years

/s/ Dr. George Mueller – Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years

/s/ James Peacock – JSC, Apollo and Shuttle Program Office, 21 years

/s/ Alex Pope – JSC, Aerospace Engineer, Engr. Directorate, 44 years

/s/ Joseph E. Rogers – JSC, Chief, Structures and Dynamics Branch, Engr. Directorate,40 years

/s/ Bernard J. Rosenbaum – JSC, Chief Engineer, Propulsion and Power Div., Engr. Dir., 48 years

/s/ James R. Roundtree – JSC, Sim. Dev. Branch Chief, Systems Dev. Div., Mission Support Dir., 26 years

/s/ Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt – JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years

/s/ Kenneth Suit – JSC, Ass’t Mgr., Systems Integration, Space Shuttle, 37 years

/s/ Robert F. Thompson – JSC, Program Manager, Space Shuttle, 44 years

/s/ Frank Van Renesselaer – Hdq.– Dir. Expendable Equipment (Ext. Tank, Solid Boosters, & Shuttle Upper Stages), 20 years

/s/ James Visentine – JSC Materials Branch, Engr. Directorate, 30 years

/s/ Manfred (Dutch) von Ehrenfried – JSC, Flight Controller; Mercury, Gemini & Apollo, MOD, 10 years

/s/ Al Worden – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 15, 9 years

/s/ Thomas (Tom) Wysmuller – ARC, GSFC, Hdq. - Meteorologist, 5 years
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

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#1105369 - 23/05/2012 10:15 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
Bill Illis Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 11/07/2010
Posts: 908

Gavin Schmidt of GISS has just noted that previous depictions of Ocean Heat Content increases have not been accurate and that the models are, in fact, greatly over-estimating the OHC increase (particularly with respect to the forecast as opposed to hindcast predictions).

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/05/ohc-modelobs-comparison-errata/





Bob Tisdale discussion of the issue (and there has been a long series of these posts and counter-claims by Tamino, Gavin and SkepticalScience).

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/05/22/ga...n-heat-content/


Anywhere from one-half to three-quarters of the forcing energy is missing or escaping from the Earth before it causes more warming. The theory needs to be re-written now as it is clear it is not working as the theory predicts.

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#1105399 - 23/05/2012 12:33 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Bill Illis]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
Is this the end of the line for the Heartland Insitute?

Quote:

Heartland's seventh climate conference, which runs until Wednesday, was a much diminished event, compared to earlier lavish gatherings which spilled out over several floors of a hotel in New York's Time Square, and attracted up to 800 followers. The tables were set for 270 at this year's gala, featuring the Czech president and climate contrarian Václav Klaus, and there were well over 100 no-shows. In a further sign of Heartland's cash crunch, meals were not included in this year's conference package.

Britain's leading climate contrarian Christopher Monckton got a standing ovation for telling a series of "birther" jokes.

Listed as a "gold level" sponsor of this week's conference was the Illinois Coal Association, although Heartland told reporters the contribution was only in the hundreds of dollars. Other allies were scarce. Only three groups set up tables at the conference. The largest was staffed by Americans for Prosperity, the ultra-conservative organisation founded by the Koch oil billionaires.

Going to Heartland conferences was always a bit like entering the portal to an alternative universe. Speakers and audience are almost entirely male, white and getting on in years. Jokes about Al Gore fly fast and furious, and can be counted on to get big laughs.

But this year's event had a sense of desperation. Speakers spoke about being "victimised" by "warmists" and "alarmists" – scientists and politicians who accept that carbon dioxide emissions from industry are a main driver of climate change.

Klaus, who made his name as an economist before his election as president, sees environmental concerns as a red menace. "It is identical to communism – identical not similar," he warned.

John Dunn, a Heartland policy adviser, sees his role as fighting "enviro-fascist madness". In his speech, he sought to ridicule recorded evidence of growing drought and heatwaves due to climate change. "Warm is good for people, and it's particularly good for people as they get older," said Dunn. "The people that warm spells kill are already moribund." He went on to say that only extreme cold caused extra deaths.

The next speaker called for the return of the insecticide DDT, long banned in the US. "It's cheap, it's effective and it's perfectly safe for humans and for all wildlife."

Who are the alarmists and extremists again?

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#1105410 - 23/05/2012 13:12 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Bill Illis]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2320

I hardly think that the "theory" will need to be re-written due to this minor correction.

Gavin says:

The basic picture is unchanged – model simulations were able to capture the historical variance in OHC (as best we know it now – there remains significant structural uncertainty in those estimates).

There are clear dips related volcanic eruptions (Agung, El Chichon, Pinatubo), and an sharp increase in the 1990s.

Looking at the last decade, it is clear that the observed rate of change of upper ocean heat content is a little slower than previously (and below linear extrapolations of the pre-2003 model output), and it remains unclear to what extent that is related to a reduction in net radiative forcing growth (due to the solar cycle, or perhaps larger than expected aerosol forcing growth), or internal variability, model errors, or data processing – arguments have been made for all four, singly and together.

Analyses of the CMIP5 models will provide some insight here since the historical simulations have been extended to 2012 (including the last solar minimum), and have updated aerosol emissions.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/05/ohc-modelobs-comparison-errata/

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#1105435 - 23/05/2012 16:02 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2320

An interesting series of articles over the next few days at the Conversation. Here's part 1 and 2

A land of (more extreme) droughts and flooding rains?

Droughts & flooding rains: what is due to climate change?

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#1105446 - 23/05/2012 16:58 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12670
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Yes and we all know how well the models have worked for the past 25 years.

Not one of them is capable of hindcasting with any accuracy so why would you believe they can make a forecast?

The simple answer is they could not make forecasts even if they did work - models can only provide simulations.

Something a few people here have failed to grasp.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

Top
#1105565 - 24/05/2012 07:41 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
Originally Posted By: Sir BoabTree
Yes and we all know how well the models have worked for the past 25 years.

Which models are you referring too? The statistical models which provide guidance to seasonal forecasting? Or the Global Circulation Models which provide guidance to atmospheric circulation changes brought about by increased radiative forcing?

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#1105569 - 24/05/2012 07:45 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: __PG__]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
Joe Bast says there will not be another Heartland Climate Conference and that he is a poor fundraiser link

Originally Posted By: Joe Bast

Please consider supporting the Heartland Institute. These conferences are expensive, and I’m not a good fundraiser so as a result I don’t raise enough money to cover them, we really scramble to make payroll as a result to cover these expenses. If you can afford to make a contribution, please do. If you know someone, if you’ve got a rich uncle or somebody in the family or somebody that you work with, please give them a call and ask them if they would consider making a tax-deductable contribution to the Heartland Institute.”


Bast specifically thanked sponsors the Heritage Foundation and the Illinois Coal Association.


Edited by __PG__ (24/05/2012 07:46)

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#1105576 - 24/05/2012 08:24 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: __PG__]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 5416
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
Just because they made a media mistake does not change the argument on AGW one bit...It has nothing to do with it at all!
U seem obsessed with gossip all the time PG. How about science!

Top
#1105600 - 24/05/2012 09:43 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12670
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
It isn't just me saying they are unreliable PG. Yes teh article is 5 years old but the problem here is that they are still using teh same models that they created 25 years ago and the results have been anything but conculsive.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071211101623.htm

ScienceDaily (Dec. 11, 2007) — A new study comparing the composite output of 22 leading global climate models with actual climate data finds that the models do an unsatisfactory job of mimicking climate change in key portions of the atmosphere.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See Also:

Earth & Climate
•Weather
•Climate
•Global Warming

Computers & Math
•Computer Modeling
•Mathematical Modeling
•Information Technology

Reference
•Consensus of scientists regarding global warming
•Climate model
•Numerical weather prediction
•Instrumental temperature record


This research, published online in the Royal Meteorological Society's International Journal of Climatology, raises new concerns about the reliability of models used to forecast global warming.

"The usual discussion is whether the climate model forecasts of Earth's climate 100 years or so into the future are realistic," said the lead author, Dr. David H. Douglass from the University of Rochester. "Here we have something more fundamental: Can the models accurately explain the climate from the recent past? "It seems that the answer is no."

Scientists from Rochester, the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH) and the University of Virginia compared the climate change "forecasts" from the 22 most widely-cited global circulation models with tropical temperature data collected by surface, satellite and balloon sensors. The models predicted that the lower atmosphere should warm significantly more than it actually did.

"Models are very consistent in forecasting a significant difference between climate trends at the surface and in the troposphere, the layer of atmosphere between the surface and the stratosphere," said Dr. John Christy, director of UAH's Earth System Science Center. "The models forecast that the troposphere should be warming more than the surface and that this trend should be especially pronounced in the tropics.

"When we look at actual climate data, however, we do not see accelerated warming in the tropical troposphere. Instead, the lower and middle atmosphere are warming the same or less than the surface. For those layers of the atmosphere, the warming trend we see in the tropics is typically less than half of what the models forecast."

The 22 climate models used in this study are the same models used by the UN Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change (IPCC), which recently shared a Nobel Peace Prize with former Vice President Al Gore.

The atmospheric temperature data were from two versions of data collected by sensors aboard NOAA satellites since late 1979, plus several sets of temperature data gathered twice a day at dozens of points in the tropics by thermometers carried into the atmosphere by helium balloons. The surface data were from three datasets.

After years of rigorous analysis and testing, the high degree of agreement between the various atmospheric data sets gives an equally high level of confidence in the basic accuracy of the climate data.

"The last 25 years constitute a period of more complete and accurate observations, and more realistic modeling efforts," said Dr. Fred Singer from the University of Virginia. "Nonetheless, the models are seen to disagree with the observations. We suggest, therefore, that projections of future climate based on these models should be viewed with much caution."

The findings of this study contrast strongly with those of a recent study that used 19 of the same climate models and similar climate datasets. That study concluded that any difference between model forecasts and atmospheric climate data is probably due to errors in the data.

"The question was, what would the models 'forecast' for upper air climate change over the past 25 years and how would that forecast compare to reality?" said Christy. "To answer that we needed climate model results that matched the actual surface temperature changes during that same time. If the models got the surface trend right but the tropospheric trend wrong, then we could pinpoint a potential problem in the models.

"As it turned out, the average of all of the climate models forecasts came out almost like the actual surface trend in the tropics. That meant we could do a very robust test of their reproduction of the lower atmosphere.

"Instead of averaging the model forecasts to get a result whose surface trends match reality, the earlier study looked at the widely scattered range of results from all of the model runs combined. Many of the models had surface trends that were quite different from the actual trend," Christy said. "Nonetheless, that study concluded that since both the surface and upper atmosphere trends were somewhere in that broad range of model results, any disagreement between the climate data and the models was probably due to faulty data.

"We think our experiment is more robust and provides more meaningful results."





_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

Top
#1105612 - 24/05/2012 10:05 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2320
Originally Posted By: Sir BoabTree
It isn't just me saying they are unreliable PG. Yes teh article is 5 years old but the problem here is that they are still using teh same models that they created 25 years ago and the results have been anything but conculsive.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071211101623.htm

ScienceDaily (Dec. 11, 2007) — A new study comparing the composite output of 22 leading global climate models with actual climate data finds that the models do an unsatisfactory job of mimicking climate change in key portions of the atmosphere.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See Also:

Earth & Climate
•Weather
•Climate
•Global Warming

Computers & Math
•Computer Modeling
•Mathematical Modeling
•Information Technology

Reference
•Consensus of scientists regarding global warming
•Climate model
•Numerical weather prediction
•Instrumental temperature record


This research, published online in the Royal Meteorological Society's International Journal of Climatology, raises new concerns about the reliability of models used to forecast global warming.

"The usual discussion is whether the climate model forecasts of Earth's climate 100 years or so into the future are realistic," said the lead author, Dr. David H. Douglass from the University of Rochester. "Here we have something more fundamental: Can the models accurately explain the climate from the recent past? "It seems that the answer is no."

Scientists from Rochester, the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH) and the University of Virginia compared the climate change "forecasts" from the 22 most widely-cited global circulation models with tropical temperature data collected by surface, satellite and balloon sensors. The models predicted that the lower atmosphere should warm significantly more than it actually did.

"Models are very consistent in forecasting a significant difference between climate trends at the surface and in the troposphere, the layer of atmosphere between the surface and the stratosphere," said Dr. John Christy, director of UAH's Earth System Science Center. "The models forecast that the troposphere should be warming more than the surface and that this trend should be especially pronounced in the tropics.

"When we look at actual climate data, however, we do not see accelerated warming in the tropical troposphere. Instead, the lower and middle atmosphere are warming the same or less than the surface. For those layers of the atmosphere, the warming trend we see in the tropics is typically less than half of what the models forecast."

The 22 climate models used in this study are the same models used by the UN Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change (IPCC), which recently shared a Nobel Peace Prize with former Vice President Al Gore.

The atmospheric temperature data were from two versions of data collected by sensors aboard NOAA satellites since late 1979, plus several sets of temperature data gathered twice a day at dozens of points in the tropics by thermometers carried into the atmosphere by helium balloons. The surface data were from three datasets.

After years of rigorous analysis and testing, the high degree of agreement between the various atmospheric data sets gives an equally high level of confidence in the basic accuracy of the climate data.

"The last 25 years constitute a period of more complete and accurate observations, and more realistic modeling efforts," said Dr. Fred Singer from the University of Virginia. "Nonetheless, the models are seen to disagree with the observations. We suggest, therefore, that projections of future climate based on these models should be viewed with much caution."

The findings of this study contrast strongly with those of a recent study that used 19 of the same climate models and similar climate datasets. That study concluded that any difference between model forecasts and atmospheric climate data is probably due to errors in the data.

"The question was, what would the models 'forecast' for upper air climate change over the past 25 years and how would that forecast compare to reality?" said Christy. "To answer that we needed climate model results that matched the actual surface temperature changes during that same time. If the models got the surface trend right but the tropospheric trend wrong, then we could pinpoint a potential problem in the models.

"As it turned out, the average of all of the climate models forecasts came out almost like the actual surface trend in the tropics. That meant we could do a very robust test of their reproduction of the lower atmosphere.

"Instead of averaging the model forecasts to get a result whose surface trends match reality, the earlier study looked at the widely scattered range of results from all of the model runs combined. Many of the models had surface trends that were quite different from the actual trend," Christy said. "Nonetheless, that study concluded that since both the surface and upper atmosphere trends were somewhere in that broad range of model results, any disagreement between the climate data and the models was probably due to faulty data.

"We think our experiment is more robust and provides more meaningful results."




A later study done in 2008 disputes the claims made by Christy and Singer.

Climate Models Look Good When Predicting Climate Change

The accuracy of computer models that predict climate change over the coming decades has been the subject of debate among politicians, environmentalists and even scientists.

A new study by meteorologists at the University of Utah shows that current climate models are quite accurate and can be valuable tools for those seeking solutions on reversing global warming trends. Most of these models project a global warming trend that amounts to about 7 degrees Fahrenheit over the next 100 years.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080402100001.htm




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#1105627 - 24/05/2012 10:38 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12670
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
This debate has been going on a lot longer than some people realise:

ON THE CHANGE OF CLIMATE.

........ That great changes have taken place in the climate of Australia all testimonies satisfactorily prove. It is evident to any observer, at some period, the country has been subjected to the mighty action of heavy rains, and of sweeping, deluging floods. The mountains and hills are cut and furrowed into deep ravines ; the parting ridges are at acute angles, and frequently washed bare of vege- table mould ; and all so precipitous, that the waters are no sooner showered from the blessed heavens than they run off with rapidity and fury through the gullies into the recipient creeks, scarcely leaving a witness of their visit, either as running brook, clear spring, or stagnant pool, a few days, perhaps a few hours, after.

The aborigines say that the climate has undergone this change since white-man came in country. " Old-hands" speak positively of creeks, constantly running streams, in their early days of trial, which have now been dry for several years........

So now the aboriginals are blaming us for climate change ..... except that the above is taken from a The Maitland Mercury & Hunter River General Advertiser (NSW : 1843 - 1893) Wednesday 11 March 1846 and can be found here: Trove article http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/679787?searchTerm=That great changes have taken place in the climate of Australia&searchLimits=#pstart124632

It would seem that cliamte change has been blamed on us from a long time ago - before man actually invented anything that has now been blamed for realeasing all the extra Co2.

First seen on Jo Nova but because I like to do my own research I tracked it down myself as well.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

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#1105671 - 24/05/2012 13:55 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
MC Thomas Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/12/2004
Posts: 1104
Loc: SE Qld
It really seems that I should do some reading about this topic. Are there any papers (not blogs) you can recommend? I had a quick search on "climate change" and I just get thousands of hits, need to narrow it down a bit.

Also, off topic but it's funny, I have seen carbon dioxide written as Co2 at two different locations, both being places of scientific research. They just love their cobalt extinguishers smile (by the way, I realise that it's just a typo, I do enough of them myself!).

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#1105677 - 24/05/2012 14:25 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: MC Thomas]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699

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#1105678 - 24/05/2012 14:26 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: __PG__]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 699
So for those who disregard the output of global circulation models, are you satisfied with the accuracy of simple 1-D energy balance models?

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