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#1082573 - 28/02/2012 22:40 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: S .O.]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Yeah wrong country SO. Lol. CRAFT Disease, but one stuffed country after another that the yanks have diddled with they all start looking the same. grin

On a more pleasant note WUWT has taken out 2 awards in the Webbies, best science or technology blog and Lifetime Achivement award. Jo Nova also won as did Tall Bloke and Climate audit.

Funnily enough no warmista blogs rated a mention. One does have to start wondering why.
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799mm Feb
130 March
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#1082614 - 29/02/2012 03:06 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
Vlasta Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 24/01/2008
Posts: 972
Loc: Melbourne Seaford
To the German solar solution .
Green Germany .
Half a million families sitting in the dark .
Anarchy is well under control as well Germany was a major rescuerer of Greece .



http://www.thegwpf.org/international-new...n-the-dark.html

Die Welt is a respectable German newspaper !

Who is goimg to rescue us ?


Edited by Vlasta (29/02/2012 03:10)

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#1082649 - 29/02/2012 08:06 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Vlasta]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
the alarmist media is excelling itself for the levels of stupidity it has descended to;

From "Adelaide now"

Melting Arctic causes snowier winters in Europe, the US

Nothing wrong with that headline BUT this below was the original "Adelaide now" headline for that exact same article until the hilarity created caused so many red faces and embarrassment for one of the most stupid headlines of the decade to be hurriedly changed.

Global warming is making the world colder


And just for further laughs;
One of the great headlines of WW2 was from a small regional english newssheet.

Eight Army push bottles up Germans

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#1082711 - 29/02/2012 10:04 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Just read about it on WUWT Rom. Should be inserted into the next Primer on how not to make AGW claims. wink

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/global_warm-cold.png Article before the headline change just in case anyone thinks we make this stuff up. Lol.


Edited by Sir BoabTree (29/02/2012 10:07)
Edit Reason: added wordpress link
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785mm Jan
799mm Feb
130 March
2019 Total 1714mm
2018 Total 822mm






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#1082756 - 29/02/2012 10:55 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
The climate change catastrophe alarmists and cultists are starting to get torn to shreds by a surprising range of commentors and an increasing amount of that backlash is now beginning to come from some of their very own warmist science brethren.

The backlash is becoming so obvious that the more rational climate scientists are becoming fearful of their future and how they will be branded and are consequently now starting to castigate the almost fanatical extremism that is becoming the hall mark of so much of the global warming / climate change meme.

From Prof Michael Kelly, a full on warmist in a letter to the "Times" which the Times altered to Kelly's obvious disgust, via Steve McIntyre's"Climate audit"

Quote:
The interpretation of the observational science has been consistently over-egged to produce alarm. All real-world data over the past 20 years has shown the climate models to be exaggerating the likely impacts — if the models cannot account for the near term, why should I trust them in the long term?
I am most worried by the billions of pounds being misinvested and lost as a consequence. Look out to sea at the end of 2015 and see how many windmills are not turning and you will get my point: there are already 14,000 abandoned windmills onshore in the US. Premature technology deployment is thoroughly bad engineering, and my taxes are subsidising it against my will and professional judgment.


Two items there from a warmist scientist right at the forefront of the whole debacle, items that I have been harping on for a long time;
The models are not worth a pinch of the usual when being used to predict the climate of the future.
And the alternative energy scam is just that, a scam reefing billions of the hard earned from the tax payers for no perceivable or conceivable results but a source of great enrichment for those already wealthy investors who control those alternative energy companies.

And a very new site set up by a climate modeler, Tasmin Edwards;

ALL MODELS ARE WRONG

Quote:
The title of this blog is from a quote by the statistician George E. P. Box (b1919). It is a mantra of modellers everywhere:

“essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful”

I’m a climate modeller at the University of Bristol. My research is in using models of the earth system – climate, ice sheets, and vegetation – to recreate the past and predict the future, and in trying to quantify the inevitable uncertainties. For more details, see my university and academia.edu pages.

Quantifying uncertainties is important in all scientific research: without an estimate of confidence, a result cannot be placed in context, cannot be given meaning. But it is essential in climate science because climate is, by definition, the statistics of weather: and statistics is the science of uncertainty.

Even more important are the stakes. The global reach of the earth’s climate – everything under the sky – and the intimate, complex connections between humans, society and the environment mean that climate scientists must work hard to understand the range of possible futures we face.

Climate scientists have been accused of many things, of which two are insufficient consideration or communication of uncertainty, and insufficient transparency. People will disagree on the extent to which we deserve these accusations. But there will always be room for improvement in both, and this blog is my small contribution to the conversation.

All models are undoubtedly ‘wrong’, because we cannot precisely simulate every breath of wind, every raindrop, or every worm turning over the soil. But this does not preclude their usefulness as tools to explore the broad consequences of known physical laws. These abstract representations help us to make sense of our world.


Read that precis of Tasmin's attitude and then think back to the IPCC modelers and the absolute surety that they ascribe to their predictions for the future climate.
The reality of course is that there are a huge range of maybe's, likely's , possible's, not known with any degree of assurance, and etc and etc attached to the whole range and gamut of the IPCC predictions.

BUT the deliberate with holding of and complete failure to transmit and acknowledge these caveats and doubts and cop outs which are NEVER transmitted to the public or to the politicians, severely distort and bias the pubic conception of climate change and global warming into a certainty that does not and never ever has actually existed in the entire climate change / global warming science.
And as that reality becomes more widely known, the climate science and the scientific community in general will be regarded with deepening suspicion by a far less trusting of science, public and political power brokers who in the past have just trusted scientists and have assumed that they, the public were not being lied to or conned by the scientific community.

Science of all disciplines is now going to have to deal over the next couple of decades with a much more skeptical and scrutinising group of switched on and interested public that has learn't through the skeptic blogs that have developed because of the global warming scam, that science, all of science is just as vulnerable to corruption and a failure to be totally honest with it's paymasters, the public, as any other section of our society.

Science may just have got a lot harder for those who are prepared to sacrifice their scientific integrity for the sake of that biblical bowl of porridge.


Edited by ROM (29/02/2012 10:57)
Edit Reason: url

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#1082780 - 29/02/2012 11:23 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
And an interview with Proff. Judith Curry of the highly regarded blog "Climate etc", former full on warmist now turned luke warmer and trending skeptic.

The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness - An Interview with Judith Curry

Quote:
Because of the IPCC and its consensus seeking process, the rewards for scientists have been mostly in embellishing the consensus, and this includes government funding. Because of recent criticisms of the IPCC and a growing understanding that the climate system is not easily understood, an increasing number of scientists are becoming emboldened to challenge some of the basic conclusions of the IPCC, and I think this is a healthy thing for the science.



Edited by ROM (29/02/2012 11:25)

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#1082807 - 29/02/2012 12:03 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Just heard a snippet of an ad on TV(don't even know what the show was).
Apparently Manta Rays are the proverbial 'Canary in the cage' For climate change. as much as I love Mantas(they are pretty cool critters), I had to laugh my ass off at hearing this. Simpy because according to which mob you talk to every animal is the Proverbial Canary(oh. Exept for the Canary-I havn't heard any scientist show any interest in them.

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#1083009 - 29/02/2012 16:49 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Brett Guy]
retired weather man Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 01/07/2007
Posts: 5161
Loc: Wynnum
Article in this mornings Brisbane Courier Mail advising Brisbane's average summer temp. was 0.4 C below normal, making it the coldest summer since 2000, similarly with the Gold Coast, whereas the Sunshine Coast had its coldest summer in 5 years....

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#1083042 - 29/02/2012 17:21 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: retired weather man]
Severely Tall Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/11/2006
Posts: 751
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria
While Melbourne had a much further above average minimum and maximum temperatures (by over a degree, even though there were a lower number of days in excess of 35, and only one 40). Classic example of where the data for a single area may be miscontrued to push an argument. I think if you looked at the relationship to a La Nina pattern you would find the SEQ generally has below normal temperatures (higher amounts of cloud from the moisture increase), while Melbourne would have above average (generally heatwaves correspond to La Ninas more than any other phases, mainly because of the blocking high/east coast troughiness).

I would hazard to use evidence of any one location or season as evidence of a change or non-change.
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#1083086 - 29/02/2012 17:52 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Severely Tall]
retired weather man Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 01/07/2007
Posts: 5161
Loc: Wynnum
ST - I just reported accurately what was written without comment or opinion and yes I am fully aware of the La Nina situation with moist onshore winds up this way turning more northerly and hot down south.

I might also mention here that as usual just because a La Nina was predicted the media went beserk before summer, and even BoM chimed in with a forecast of 6 TC's, at least 2 crossing the Qld coast. The facts are that yet another quiet TC season has occurred, with the STJ way too far north once again, ( except for right now where should a TC develop it would hit the coast for virtually the first time this wet ) coupled with a very inactive monsoon compared to the last 6 wets. In fact Townsville from where I have just moved after 26 years has had below average rain so far this year after 6 straight above average wets...

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#1083098 - 29/02/2012 18:06 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: retired weather man]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Actually townsville is only JUST below average(not enough to be statistically important as has been mentiond on another thread and whille the cycone season has been reativey quiet so far it is about to ramp up. So untill the next two months go by we can't make a call on that.

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#1083203 - 29/02/2012 20:35 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Brett Guy]
crikey Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/02/2011
Posts: 3184
Loc: Tweed Heads
The ancient Arabic writings that reveal desert city of Baghdad was FROZEN over 1,000 years ago in new clue over climate change

* It snowed three times between 908 and 1007 - but not again until 2008


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...l#ixzz1LtDUormz
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#1083230 - 29/02/2012 21:24 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: crikey]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
The Nile River has been known to freeze over at least twice. These two recorded events took place in 829 A.D. and again in 1010 A.D

That 1010 date and the 1007 date in crikey's post look like the same cold event as the dates are often a bit out as some of that information has been copied and come down to us as third or fourth hand information.

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#1083377 - 01/03/2012 09:27 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
I read of this new particle physics results below and contrast the open, transparent, public and open questioning and even doubts of their own results attitude of the particle physicists with the incestuous, closed shop, boy's own club, almost pathological secrecy and the rigid refusal to countenance any other potential and natural forces other than CO2 that would account for any warming of the climate, by climate warming scientists.

Particle scientists do science.

Climate "warming scientists" do deception and heavy handed politics.

New twist in antimatter mystery

Quote:
A US experiment has confirmed previous findings that hinted at new phenomena outside our understanding of physics.
The results show that certain matter particles decay differently from their antimatter counterparts.

&
The findings from scientists working on the CDF experiment have been presented at a particle physics meeting in La Thuile, Italy.




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#1083486 - 01/03/2012 12:48 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1620
Loc: Wangaratta
John Brumby said when Premier "that we can't build more dams because they will never be filled" You drowning in your lies Mr Brumby?

Just weeks before the November 2006 state poll, Labor released a Melbourne water strategy acknowledging that climate change may have resulted in a permanent decline in rainfall. It promised to study options for medium-term (2015-19) augmentation of water supply, including desalination.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/that-sinking-feeling-20111209-1onr3.html#ixzz1npEfc7Tn

Unpopular View #4 - Liar Dam Liars and Politicians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTNs11XIFN8

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#1084523 - 03/03/2012 09:01 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Simmosturf]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654
Climate Change: A planet in flux

How is life on Earth reacting to climate change?

Human activities have added billions of tonnes of carbon dioxide to Earth's atmosphere, causing global temperatures to rise. We are beginning to see how warmer temperatures are altering climates all over the planet and to understand the effects they are having on animals, agriculture and people. What will Earth look like in the year 2100? How will climate change have altered the planet's biology?

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v483/n7387_supp/full/483S12a.html
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#1084971 - 04/03/2012 09:42 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Severely Tall Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/11/2006
Posts: 751
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria
An interesting perspective on ocean acidification from paleo-oceanographers.

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=123324&WT.mc_id=USNSF_51&WT.mc_ev=click
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#1085043 - 04/03/2012 12:15 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Severely Tall]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 334
Loc: Kyabram
So sea water has a ph level of 7.5 - 8.4 (wiki)- between just above neutral(7.0) to quite alkaline at 8.4. Doesn't seem at all acidic to me in fact its not! Like I noted above its above nuetral to quite alkaline.

So what pH levels are required to start to dissolve the calcium used to build sea creatures shells etc? How low does the pH of sea water have to get before we start to see some real issues. is it at a pH of 6.9, just below neutral(where the OH- and H+ ions are in equilibrium) or less or more, Has this been answered before?

What about the accuracy of testing? When testing pH in our lab we don't typically fuss over 0.1 pH unit - its within the tolerance of the test and our testing equipment. But I guess more professional pH analysis does track pH down to what 0.01 or even 0.001 pH units?

Why do they say the oceans acidity has fallen should they not be saying the oceans alaklinity has fallen?- why not the oceans pH has fallen - ok maybe "technically" the same?


Quoting a part of the article:

"In lab experiments, scientists have tried to simulate modern ocean acidification, but the number of variables currently at play--high carbon dioxide and warmer temperatures, and reduced ocean pH and dissolved oxygen levels--make predictions difficult."

"Make predicitons difficult" - so we dont really know the consequences - just another theory that is yet to be proved or disproved.

Yet appears to be actually happening based on the body of the article.

Too many variables - why not plug all of the details into a computer model - that will give the right answers - right?

pH range from 7.5 to 8.4 is huge range in sea water pH - amazes me the variation across the oceans. Are the oceans not in a constant change of status? The only way one could be sure the changes are happening is to have set aside a piece of seawater which has no other inputs other than CO2 - ie deviod of ocean life - rainwater, ocean currents etc - then we could monitor the pH on that and see what happens. I'm sure I'm not making sense here - like I said - too many inputs into a "living" eco-system to blame changes on one input.



Edited by liberator (04/03/2012 12:16)

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#1085072 - 04/03/2012 13:55 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: liberator]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
CeeBee Nature is just another propoganda vehicle of the cAGW mob who publishes political opinion instead of a scientific debate on climate change. You need to broaden your reading base instead of relying on one source.
_________________________
785mm Jan
799mm Feb
130 March
2019 Total 1714mm
2018 Total 822mm






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#1085125 - 04/03/2012 15:59 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Note how every single one of these claims are scary or intended to create alarm.
Not one of them just says, look this is what we found but there is nothing to worry about as it is possibly quite natural.

Despite being a science supporter all my life, I'm just on the point of starting to get pretty contemptuous of a lot of so called scientists with their constant hand wring alarmist screechings of imminent catastrophes in the making. ie; send more money!

So here is one that is not quite in that league just yet and you can see it is all perfectly natural

High-Frequency Dynamics of Ocean pH: A Multi-Ecosystem Comparison

Abstract quote;
Quote:
The effect of Ocean Acidification (OA) on marine biota is quasi-predictable at best. While perturbation studies, in the form of incubations under elevated pCO2, reveal sensitivities and responses of individual species, one missing link in the OA story results from a chronic lack of pH data specific to a given species' natural habitat. Here, we present a compilation of continuous, high-resolution time series of upper ocean pH, collected using autonomous sensors, over a variety of ecosystems ranging from polar to tropical, open-ocean to coastal, kelp forest to coral reef. These observations reveal a continuum of month-long pH variability with standard deviations from 0.004 to 0.277 and ranges spanning 0.024 to 1.430 pH units. [ edit; 1.430 pH units; ocean ph 8.2. ] The nature of the observed variability was also highly site-dependent, with characteristic diel, semi-diurnal, and stochastic patterns of varying amplitudes. These biome-specific pH signatures disclose current levels of exposure to both high and low dissolved CO2, often demonstrating that resident organisms are already experiencing pH regimes that are not predicted until 2100. Our data provide a first step toward crystallizing the biophysical link between environmental history of pH exposure and physiological resilience of marine organisms to fluctuations in seawater CO2. Knowledge of this spatial and temporal variation in seawater chemistry allows us to improve the design of OA experiments: we can test organisms with a priori expectations of their tolerance guardrails, based on their natural range of exposure. Such hypothesis-testing will provide a deeper understanding of the effects of OA. Both intuitively simple to understand and powerfully informative, these and similar comparative time series can help guide management efforts to identify areas of marine habitat that can serve as refugia to acidification as well as areas that are particularly vulnerable to future ocean change


Jo Nova also has a post on this;

The chemistry of ocean pH and “acidification”

Ocean pH varies by 0.3 naturally.

Claims of acidification since 1750 are based on dubious models and few observations.

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