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#1115583 - 19/07/2012 17:35 Re: Temperature trends [Re: snafu]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
World record temp: 57.8C, Libya, 13th Sept 1922

US temp record: 56.7C, Death Valley, 5th July 1937

I realise that these are not for a 24-hour period record, but I would like to draw your attention to the dates.

It's been hot before...and hasn't been hotter since!

(same as the Aust records above)
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We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
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#1115584 - 19/07/2012 17:40 Re: Temperature trends [Re: snafu]
Anthony Violi Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2001
Posts: 2326
Loc: Soon to be Mt Barker - SA
Not bad snafu, temps of 56 degrees, and 3 metre snow packs here.
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#1115585 - 19/07/2012 17:43 Re: Temperature trends [Re: Anthony Violi]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Better check that thermometer, looks wrong to me.... smirk
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1115593 - 19/07/2012 18:13 Re: Temperature trends [Re: snafu]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
Yeah! Can't trust those - trees are better. Or even beter yet thermo-meta-datas. LOL
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1115609 - 19/07/2012 20:38 Re: Temperature trends [Re: bd bucketingdown]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
Originally Posted By: bd bucketingdown
Einstein was a fervent christian religious person, as are and were many other prominent scientist! So I don't get your last point there Arnost!?


The point I am making is that in classical science it does not matter what or who you are so long as the science is right. With Post Modern or Post Normal science, BECAUSE bias is accepted (even encouraged) then it DOES (definitionally) matter.

And that is science turned on its head!
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1115658 - 20/07/2012 01:55 Re: Temperature trends [Re: Arnost]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Just out of curiosity;

From Wiki - last updated 12 July 2012 at 20:50

U.S. state temperature extremes:

Now if my history is correct, there are 50 states + D.C (51) in the US. Correct?

I will quote from wiki..... smirk , (Global Warming section):

Global warming is the rise in the average temperature of Earth's atmosphere and oceans since the late 19th century, and its projected continuation. Since the early 20th century, Earth's mean surface temperature has increased by about 0.8 °C (1.4 °F), with about two-thirds of the increase occurring since 1980. Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, and scientists are more than 90% certain that it is primarily caused by increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases produced by human activities such as deforestation and the burning of fossil fuels. These findings are recognized by the national science academies of all major industrialized nations.


high temp records broken:

1890's - 1
1900's - 1
1910's - 5
1920's - 2
1930's - 24 (13 records broken in 1936 alone)
1940's - 0
1950's - 4
1960's - 1
1970's - 2
1980's - 2
1990's - 5
2000's - 2
2010's - 2

(11 records broken since 1980)

low temps records broken:

1890's - 6
1900's - 4
1910's - 3
1920's - 0
1930's - 11
1940's - 3
1950's - 2
1960's - 4
1970's - 4
1980's - 6
1990's - 6
2000's - 1
2010's - 1

(14 records broken since 1980)

Where's the warming with 'about two-thirds of the increase occurring since 1980'?

P.S. Glad I wasn't there in the '30's..... wink


Edited by snafu (20/07/2012 01:59)
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

Top
#1115659 - 20/07/2012 02:08 Re: Temperature trends [Re: snafu]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Sorry that should be:

'high temp records'
&
'low temp records'

gimme a break....it's 2:00am... tired
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

Top
#1115693 - 20/07/2012 09:41 Re: Temperature trends [Re: snafu]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
I'll redo that so it makes more sense:

current high temp records:

1890's - 1
1900's - 1
1910's - 5
1920's - 2
1930's - 24 (13 records set in 1936 alone)
1940's - 0
1950's - 4
1960's - 1
1970's - 2
1980's - 2
1990's - 5
2000's - 2
2010's - 2

(11 records set since 1980)

current low temp records:

1890's - 6
1900's - 4
1910's - 3
1920's - 0
1930's - 11
1940's - 3
1950's - 2
1960's - 4
1970's - 4
1980's - 6
1990's - 6
2000's - 1
2010's - 1

(14 records set since 1980)


While I'm at it, here are the Aust records:

Australian Temps;

Highest recordered:- 50.7C, 2nd Jan 1960 - Oodnadatta, SA (see note 1 below)
Lowest recrdered:- -23C, 29th Jun 1994 - Charlotte Pass, NSW

By State;
ACT;
Highest Max:- 42.8C, 11th Jan 1939.
Lowest min:- -14.6C, 11th Jul 1971

NSW;
Highest Max:- 49.7C, 10th Jan 1939.
Lowest min:- -23C, 29th Jun 1994 (lowest recorded temp in mainland Aust, Charlotte Pass, NSW)

NT;
Highest Max:- 48.3C, 1st & 2nd Jan 1960.
Lowest min:- -7.5C, 12th Jul 1976

QLD;
Highest Max:- 49.5C (see Note 1 below), 24th Dec 1972.
Lowest min:- -10.6C, 23rd Jun 1961 & 12th July 1965.

SA;
Highest Max:- 50.7C, 2nd Jan 1960 (highest official Aust temp recorded, Oodnadatta, SA. See Note 1 below).
Lowest min:- -8C, 20th Jul 1976

Tas;
Highest Max:- 42.2C, 30th Jan 2009.
Lowest min:- -13C, 30th Jun 1983

Vic;
Highest Max:- 48.8C, 7th Feb 2009 (see Note 2 below).
Lowest min:- -11.7C, 13th Jun 1965 & 3rd Jul 1970

WA;
Highest Max:- 50.5C, 19th Feb 1998.
Lowest min:- -7.2C, 17th Aug 2008


Note 1) *A temp of 53.1C was recorded at Cloncurry, QLD on the 16th Jan 1889 but this is not considered as official; the figure quoted from Birdsville/Oodnadatta is the next highest, so that record is considered as being official*

Note 2) *A 'Stevenson screen or instrument shelter' temp of 50.7C was recorded in Mildura on 7th Jan 1906*
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

Top
#1115700 - 20/07/2012 10:17 Re: Temperature trends [Re: Seira]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Originally Posted By: -Cosmic- (naz)
Originally Posted By: ROM
the alteration and corruption of the past temperature records to achieve supposedly supporting data and science for the agenda claims of a rapidly warming world due to increasing CO2.

I would like to present a scenario:

“There is no impartial evidence available in mainstream science about the causes of and trends in temperature records (on any temporal or spatial scale), which presents the facts as they actually are, not according to some preconceived agenda.”

I would now like to see someone present evidence to counter that supposition!


see above.
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

Top
#1115713 - 20/07/2012 11:33 Re: Temperature trends [Re: snafu]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Also here:

“At 2 p.m. the thermometer stood at 129 degrees of Fahrenheit, in the shade; and at 149 degrees in the sun; the difference being exactly 20 degrees.” Charles Sturt, 1844-46

and here:

“The thermometer in my tent stood at 117°, and when exposed to the wind rose rapidly to 129°, when I feared the thermometer would break as it only reached to 132°.” Sir Thomas Mitchell, 27th Dec 1845.

and now here:

Medieval Warm Period found in 120 proxies. Plus Roman era was similar to early 20th Century. - JoNova, July 20th 2012


Edited by snafu (20/07/2012 11:35)
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

Top
#1115860 - 21/07/2012 12:51 Re: Temperature trends [Re: snafu]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
NoTricksZone; Global CO2 Emissions Jump Another 3% In 2011 Yet Temperatures Show No Increase In 14 Years



And to repeat from my previous posts.
The rapid [ relative] warming on which the supposed confirmation of the predictions of catastrophic warming from the IPCC's climate models is based arises from the now increasingly disputed [ due to further increasing concerns and evidence on the manipulation of the global temperature data ] rapid warming of the global climate in the two decades from about 1978 after the 1996/7 Great Pacific Climate Shift, the very rapid change in the PDO phase from a negative to warm positive phase in the Pacific, through to about 1998, a period of just 20 years.

It is on this short, two decade long period alone that the entire claims of the confirmation of the IPCC modelled CO2 induced catastrophic global warming are based.

We are now into the 14th year of slowly declining global temperatures based on the CRU [ the UK's official "Climate Research Unit" ] data as shown in the CO2 / global temperature graph above and this despite an ongoing increase in the measured CO2 levels from Mauna Loa.

The cooling trend of about .12C / decade from 2002 to 2009 referred to by Phil Jones of the CRU in a BBC interview in 2009 following Copenhagen and Climate Gate can be clearly seen in the graph above and the cooling trend has continued on from that 2009 period.

Q & A, BBC 2009
Quote:
C - Do you agree that from January 2002 to the present there has been statistically significant global cooling?
No. This period is even shorter than 1995-2009. The trend this time is negative (-0.12C per decade), but this trend is not statistically significant


This cooling trend is cause for concern for the future of global food production and of energy use as governments stupidly raise energy prices to unaffordable levels at the behest of the warmist crazies.

Over 60% of the world's peoples live between the global average temperature isotherms, the lines around the planet, north and south of the equator that define the earth's average temperature.
And this despite the fact that most of the Equatorial regions of the planet run across the oceans. Consequently most of the land mass for human habitation in the warmest areas of the planet are limited in extent for human habitation.

All of which tells us quite a lot about humanity's desire to seek out warmth and the ability to adapt to warmth and the ability to supply humanity with it's needs in food and water in warmer, wetter regions rather than trying to survive in the colder temperatures further north and south of those global average temperature isotherms.

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#1115866 - 21/07/2012 14:09 Re: Temperature trends [Re: ROM]
_Johnno_ Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/11/2009
Posts: 1744
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#1115868 - 21/07/2012 14:33 Re: Temperature trends [Re: _Johnno_]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
mmmkay....read about it and heard about on the news this morning.

Are you suggesting that Global Warming/Climate Change is the cause?

P.S. Pop it down here where it belongs... wink
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

Top
#1115885 - 21/07/2012 17:23 Re: Temperature trends [Re: snafu]
Anthony Violi Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2001
Posts: 2326
Loc: Soon to be Mt Barker - SA
I did ask Ceebee to give me the breakdown of increase in emissions of co2 since 1998.

He didnt give it to us because it destroys the myth.
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#1115886 - 21/07/2012 17:38 Re: Temperature trends [Re: Anthony Violi]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

Top
#1115893 - 21/07/2012 18:18 Re: Temperature trends [Re: ROM]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637
Originally Posted By: ROM
NoTricksZone; Global CO2 Emissions Jump Another 3% In 2011 Yet Temperatures Show No Increase In 14 Years



And to repeat from my previous posts.
The rapid [ relative] warming on which the supposed confirmation of the predictions of catastrophic warming from the IPCC's climate models is based arises from the now increasingly disputed [ due to further increasing concerns and evidence on the manipulation of the global temperature data ] rapid warming of the global climate in the two decades from about 1978 after the 1996/7 Great Pacific Climate Shift, the very rapid change in the PDO phase from a negative to warm positive phase in the Pacific, through to about 1998, a period of just 20 years.

It is on this short, two decade long period alone that the entire claims of the confirmation of the IPCC modelled CO2 induced catastrophic global warming are based.

We are now into the 14th year of slowly declining global temperatures based on the CRU [ the UK's official "Climate Research Unit" ] data as shown in the CO2 / global temperature graph above and this despite an ongoing increase in the measured CO2 levels from Mauna Loa.

The cooling trend of about .12C / decade from 2002 to 2009 referred to by Phil Jones of the CRU in a BBC interview in 2009 following Copenhagen and Climate Gate can be clearly seen in the graph above and the cooling trend has continued on from that 2009 period.

Q & A, BBC 2009
Quote:
C - Do you agree that from January 2002 to the present there has been statistically significant global cooling?
No. This period is even shorter than 1995-2009. The trend this time is negative (-0.12C per decade), but this trend is not statistically significant


This cooling trend is cause for concern for the future of global food production and of energy use as governments stupidly raise energy prices to unaffordable levels at the behest of the warmist crazies.

Over 60% of the world's peoples live between the global average temperature isotherms, the lines around the planet, north and south of the equator that define the earth's average temperature.
And this despite the fact that most of the Equatorial regions of the planet run across the oceans. Consequently most of the land mass for human habitation in the warmest areas of the planet are limited in extent for human habitation.

All of which tells us quite a lot about humanity's desire to seek out warmth and the ability to adapt to warmth and the ability to supply humanity with it's needs in food and water in warmer, wetter regions rather than trying to survive in the colder temperatures further north and south of those global average temperature isotherms.


And ROM accuses me of cherry picking! Why do you skeptics always choose 1998 as the starting point for your graphs hmmm?

Why not 1997, or 1999?

And why do you skeptics use the old Hadcrut3 when it has been superseded by a more complete and accurate Hadcrut4?

For any credible study on the climate one needs to look at 30 plus years - not a cherry picked recent year when there happened to be a spike in temps due to a strong El Nino.


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#1115897 - 21/07/2012 18:39 Re: Temperature trends [Re: Arnost]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 315
Loc: Kyabram
Interesting document that one - especially the graphs on page 21 - showing increasing CO2 levels yet a "trend" of dropping global temperatures (2002 to current) after having seeing an increase in temperatures from 76-2002 - going agaisnt the theroy that increases in CO2 will result in increses in global temperatures. So why the drop? SO2 production from china, cooling sun, who knows - just shows we still dont have the answers just theories and models.

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#1115899 - 21/07/2012 18:52 Re: Temperature trends [Re: liberator]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 315
Loc: Kyabram
are there any graphs plotting SO2 levels against global temps?

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#1115900 - 21/07/2012 18:53 Re: Temperature trends [Re: liberator]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637
2002 to current is too short a time to see a trend. The second graph shows how over the long term CO2 and temps are in lockstep.






Does CO2 always correlate with temperature (and if not, why not?)


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#1115913 - 21/07/2012 21:35 Re: Temperature trends [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
And why pick 1964 start and 2009 end?...because it does just what you accused the previous person of doing!
cherry picking, plus using biased GISS temp trace!

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