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#1124663 - 04/09/2012 11:36 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 4553
Loc: Brisbane
Yes but doesn't it paint an interesting picture on how those in the pro-AGW camp think. They seem to believe anyone that doesn't accept AGW theory must be a conspiracy theorist crackpot, nutter and dupe.

Is it little wonder there is such a horrendous failure to engage in meaningful debate when one side consistently and openly brings such an absurd mindset to the discussion table.
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This post and any other post by Locke is NOT an official forecast & should not be used as such. It's just my opinion & may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, refer to Australian Bureau of Meteorology products.

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#1124664 - 04/09/2012 11:40 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: __PG__]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
'ManicBeancounter' has his own analysis on the Lewandowsky paper on his blog. As It's in 4 parts, I'll just supply the links:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4
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We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1124670 - 04/09/2012 12:16 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Quote:
They seem to believe anyone that doesn't accept AGW theory must be a conspiracy theorist crackpot, nutter and dupe


The second that any one of the flock begins to raise questions the immedaite come-back is: "Are you a nut-job like the deniers?" It is just a well tried mechanism to keep the gullible in line. And really meant for private consumption... just that it leaks out now and then.

http://www.howcultswork.com/
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1124673 - 04/09/2012 12:48 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Severely Tall Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/11/2006
Posts: 751
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria
Quote:
Is it little wonder there is such a horrendous failure to engage in meaningful debate when one side consistently and openly brings such an absurd mindset to the discussion table.


I don't think its totally one sided Locke, there are crackpots on the flipside who do fit that sort of conspiracy theorist mantle and question everything rather than the important problems, but Its pretty easy to see that not all of those who don't agree with AGW theory are like that.


Edited by Severely Tall (04/09/2012 12:48)
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#1124676 - 04/09/2012 13:03 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Severely Tall]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 4553
Loc: Brisbane
Agreed ST. Certainly not one sided. In fact I've reported sceptic posts previously that I thought were unwarranted and clearly nasty.

The problem lies in the fact that their is far too much of this Lewandowsky style stuff getting press and its very difficult not to draw the conclusion that most of the pro AGW side of the climate change debate thinks this way about sceptics. The continuing use of the term "denier" when its so blatantly obvious that it is an offensive term and meant to be so is an indication of this.

You'll get no disagreement though that apalling behaviour isnt seen on the sceptic side, I just don't perceive it as being so rampant.
_________________________
This post and any other post by Locke is NOT an official forecast & should not be used as such. It's just my opinion & may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, refer to Australian Bureau of Meteorology products.

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#1124680 - 04/09/2012 13:31 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Severely Tall]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Whilst that is right ST, there is one thing that gets up my nose... The mostly rational sceptics do try to filter out and isolate the "nutters". Certainly on this forum this does happen - see for example the reception that anyone gets when raising chemtrails, HAARP or other "out there" ideas. Or what reception some individuals get - such as Ken Ring got recently...

On the other hand, the alarmists have available to them an almost daily supply of apparently climate related catastrophes, and what seems to me, encouraged to dramatise potential disasters. And if you look back to the projected / predicted disasters - then apart from maybe the Arctic Ice cap meltdown, none have happened.

And still they pile on... so who is really the nutter?

The rabid deniers have time and time again posted on their philosophy:

http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthrea...ts_a#Post987134
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1124682 - 04/09/2012 13:41 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Tom1234 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1709
Loc: Port Stephens
The CSIRO would disagree that nothing bad will come from AGW. But on weatherzone, it's the AGW side who get labelled as nutters, not the sceptics.

I guess that's why no one really posts in this section, it's pretty stale unless you're a sceptic.

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#1124684 - 04/09/2012 13:54 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Tom1234]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
'Climate and Climate Change'

280 pages

113 threads

22,636 comments

5,587 comments and 2,186,739 views in this thread (Interesting news articles about AGW) alone. (at time of post)

Yep, you're right. No one posts or is interested in this section.
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1124687 - 04/09/2012 14:17 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Just for enrique!

"For the first time in history, people shouting “the end is nigh” are somehow the sane ones, while those of us who say it is not are now the lunatics"

NZ Climate Science Coalition.

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#1124689 - 04/09/2012 14:20 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
[EDIT] Sorry, that should be:

'Climate and Climate Change'

6 pages

113 threads

22,637 comments

280 pages, 5,588 comments and 2,186,847 views in this thread (Interesting news articles about AGW) alone. (at time of post)

Yep, you're right. No one posts or is interested in this section.
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

Top
#1124690 - 04/09/2012 14:22 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
Tom1234 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1709
Loc: Port Stephens
yeas but the majority of posts are by the same 4-5guys, who also happen to be very pleased when AGW posters leave the building. It gets stale and people leave.

NSW day to day thread has double the views of this thread, but you wouldn't know that as your account has spammed the climate change section only.

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#1124694 - 04/09/2012 14:33 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Tom1234]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Well instead of just posting criticism as is usual from warmists of the skeptic posters here enrique, would you like to make a carefully thought out and reasoned post or a series of posts on why you believe that your beliefs and understandings on the climate are right and the skeptics are wrong?

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#1124695 - 04/09/2012 14:34 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1620
Loc: Wangaratta
Bah ha ha ha what a crack up... Alarmist whackos

"Sunshade" to fight climate change costed at US$5bil a year

OSLO/SINGAPORE: Planes or airships could carry sun-dimming materials high into the atmosphere for an affordable price tag of below US$5 billion a year as a way to slow climate change, a study indicated on Friday.

Guns, rockets or a pipeline into the stratosphere would be more expensive but generally far cheaper than policies to cut world greenhouse gas emissions, estimated to cost between $200 billion and $2 trillion a year by 2030.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp%3Ffile%3D/2012/8/31/business/20120831101027%26sec%3Dbusiness&ct=ga&cad=CAEQAhgAIAAoATAHOAdAgNOBggVIAVAAWABiBWVuLUFV&cd=1FI_tURyKEo&usg=AFQjCNHiYa070GuC6T8_CiTtu2G2rGzh3w


Edited by Simmosturf (04/09/2012 14:36)

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#1124697 - 04/09/2012 14:37 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Simmosturf]
Seabreeze Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 18/09/2005
Posts: 10670
Loc: SWR
Originally Posted By: Enrique
yeas but the majority of posts are by the same 4-5guys, who also happen to be very pleased when AGW posters leave the building. It gets stale and people leave.

NSW day to day thread has double the views of this thread, but you wouldn't know that as your account has spammed the climate change section only.
Quite true, it has become stale. The same small number of members contributing to the Climate Change debate. New contributors are unlikely to join the "discussion" because of the nastiness and general lack of civility from both sides. In saying that, the vast, vast majority of that behaviour is restricted to several regular contributors though, and there are courteous regular / semi-regular contributors on this sub-forum.
It's a bit like Question Time in recent years, with plenty of mud-slinging, nonsense, and petty insults. All rather bemusing, frustrating and saddening for the rest of the us to watch reasonably knowledgeable people act in such a manner.
Atrocious behaviour at times, lots of belittling and trolling because someone may share an opposing view. For the record, I'm a sceptic.

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#1124698 - 04/09/2012 14:38 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Simmosturf]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 706
There is a new climate change mockumentary out : http://www.theboywhocriedwarming.com/index.php

Full of nonsense, lies and Lord Monckton.

Senator Cory Bernadi makes an appearance at about 1:07 in the documentary.

The makers of the website give Cory's profile here
"His roll in the death of Cap and Trade in Australia has become a beacon which will hopefully guide the rest of the world through the murky waters of any Carbon Emissions Trading"

Didn't realise the ETS was already dead laugh

Some of the interview can also be found on Youtube


Edited by __PG__ (04/09/2012 14:40)

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#1124699 - 04/09/2012 14:42 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 706
Originally Posted By: Arnost

But isn't it just a silly state of affairs that Lewandowski is a) creating a survey where he hopes to trap some nut-jobs into giving him "ammunition" to label all supporters of free markets as insane; and b) creating a gotcha where: as he said that HE sent the survey out to Sceptic sites, and when they all say they diddn't get anything from HIM he can accuse them all of lying coz it was his (unknown) assistant?

Yeah...how devious that Lewandowsky is. What a cunning plan to wilfully decieve hundreds of bloggers throughout the world by getting his assistant to send out email requests!

So has Steve McIntyre taken his name off Lucia's blackboard now?

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#1124700 - 04/09/2012 14:45 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: __PG__]
__PG__ Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 08/02/2010
Posts: 706
David Evans and Jo Nova appear in a 2011 film: Trading on Thin air
Quote:

Trading on Thin Air explains the methods used by the financial oligarchy in the past to extract the wealth of the nation and shows how the same strategy is being used today to subvert a movement for conservation and sustainability and harness it in order to create the next big bubble.

From huge investments to influence public opinion, to the lobbying of government, the film shows that environmental protection is not truly the goal, but the institution of a system that will extract a de facto tax on most human activities, avoid regulation of industries and artificially inflate the money supply by creating money out of ….. Thin air.

The fact that business has embraced the publics' interest in greening the economy is great. Really reducing their pollution of the environment would be wonderful. But if all they are up to is finding a new way to make a buck, setting up another system to self regulate, like they did on Wall Street with the real estate bubble, well then, it's still just business as usual.

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#1124711 - 04/09/2012 15:09 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: __PG__]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
What were you saying seabreeze?

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#1124713 - 04/09/2012 15:20 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
Tom1234 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1709
Loc: Port Stephens
Originally Posted By: ROM
Well instead of just posting criticism as is usual from warmists of the skeptic posters here enrique, would you like to make a carefully thought out and reasoned post or a series of posts on why you believe that your beliefs and understandings on the climate are right and the skeptics are wrong?



I started a thread on a CSIRO research paper, people could only attack the institution and not the work they conducted. I think I'll stick to general weather threads thanks ROM.

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#1124845 - 05/09/2012 00:36 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Tom1234]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654

...they's got internet in Iceland... grin

The Six Stages Of Climate Grief

Now that the hottest summer on record is drawing to a close, are we any closer to admitting that climate change is upon us? If not, why not?

It might have something to do with the five stages of grief. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross identified these stages as denial, then anger, followed by bargaining, depression, and acceptance. With record drought killing our cattle and our corn, West Nile virus sweeping the country, and Arctic ice sheets melting away, it's no surprise that millions of people are responding to these frightening signs of environmental decline in stages.

Nobel Laureate Steve W. Running first proposed this frame for understanding the popular response to climate change in 2007. I'd like to go one step further and suggest a sixth stage: The Work.

Denial, the first stage of grief, can be quite comfortable. The U.S. media is in many ways co-dependent with the denialist camp. It rarely connects the dots between extreme weather events and climate change, making it easy to remain blissfully ignorant. Our politicians are also prolonging this denial stage by rarely uttering the term "climate change," as though the words themselves were obscene.

The second stage — anger — sums up the likes of Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. These talk show hosts are at their most vitriolic when they attack climate scientists or advocates of fossil fuel alternatives. Their ferocity gives license to the crazies who issue death threats against climate scientists: they would rather shoot the messenger than listen to the message.

The next stage, bargaining, comes when the deniers begin to acknowledge that global temperatures are indeed rising, but claim it's due to natural causes. Or they take a stance like ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson's — admitting climate change is a major, man-made problem, but claiming that the answer is to "adapt" to it instead of changing our behavior.

Depression is a familiar state to me and my fellow climate change activists. If the truth will set you free, the truth about climate change may set you free to take anti-depressants for the rest of your life. Every weather abnormality comes with a sense of dread. It's at this point that we lose people. Denial starts to look attractive.

Acceptance is the hardest stage, because what experts tell us lies ahead is so damn scary, it will make you want to hop into Rush Limbaugh's lap and stay there: We are surpassing all of scientists' worst-case scenarios by a long shot — we are now on track to an 11-degree Fahrenheit rise by the end of the century, according to the International Energy Agency. We've broken over 4,000 temperature records in the United States just this year, and scientists tell us record droughts, floods, storms, and forest fires all may become "the new normal."

We must accept this dreadful prognosis if we are to act appropriately.

But acceptance does not mean that all is lost.

After years of working through these stages, I've discovered a new sixth stage: doing The Work. This means taking courage from each other as we look this monster in the eye and fight side-by-side in the battle of a lifetime. Systemic change — not just light-bulb change — is what's required now. This must include everything from replacing the GDP as an outdated measure of progress to getting schools to teach climate science and arm the next generation with the facts.

Together, we can get a glimpse, beyond despair, of a world of transformation and rebirth that is possible if we're courageous enough to fight for it. After all, our planet will eventually restore itself to a state of equilibrium — we just have to make sure humankind is around to witness it.

http://www.otherwords.org/articles/the_six_stages_of_climate_grief
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