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#1115775 - 20/07/2012 20:07 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654



Originally Posted By: snafu
No CB.....you read from here down. Make sure you read it all and follow ALL the links. There's a lot of reading.


No snafu...I suggest you read this article to get the true facts on the story.
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#1115780 - 20/07/2012 20:53 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6050
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
Why is your side of the debate always have in your opinion the "true facts" CB! Does not science go forward by debating, and do not we change science all the time as new data and facts are found. It would be better if you said and anyone said on either side, "Why don't you read this, it may contain some information of interest to you." the "true facts" of this AGW debate and all that is in it are yet to be resolved. Only the global temperature UAH (if unaltered by human hand) in the next 5 to 10 years will show what the "true facts" are in some better measure. The true facts atm are still up for big debate.


Edited by bd bucketingdown (20/07/2012 20:53)

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#1115801 - 20/07/2012 22:53 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Aah BD thats because CB believes the dogma and nothing but the dogma, and then confuses himself into thinking that his beliefs or tenents are facts, when they aren't anything of the sort, they are still just beliefs. From that it is a simple matter of time until they attain zealotary tendency and shazam we have a fully fledged cAGW troll.
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#1115813 - 21/07/2012 06:33 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654

Nonsense SBT. The link I gave above lays out the facts on the whole 1995 IPCC Report: The “scientific cleansing” allegation.

Skeptics have this habit of making up stuff and then get all out of shape when those untruths are exposed and rebutted.
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#1115819 - 21/07/2012 08:13 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Quote:
Skeptics have this habit of making up stuff and then get all out of shape when those untruths are exposed and rebutted.


Skeptics making stuff up? Sceptics question stuff - not make it up!

But keep on repeating that tonyourself as your world of untruths is exposed and continues to unravel.


Edited by Arnost (21/07/2012 08:21)

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#1115828 - 21/07/2012 09:45 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654
HERE WE GO AGAIN: “WATTS UP WITH THAT?” PUSHING THE NO CONSENSUS MYTH

The denial movement, particularly in the United States is in a bit of a head spin. With record temperatures, a drought that is extending over a sizable part of the nation and devastated food crops, public acceptance of climate change has shot up to 70%.

In response, the denial machine has been paddling hard against the stream of public opinion and evidence. The team over at Watt’s up with that have been working furiously to question the temperature records, tell everyone this is all just a “normal summer” and hey isn’t it all really a conspiracy?

It must be hard toiling away on your climate denial blog when the power goes due to storm induced black outs or when the temperature is consistently over 100F. Cognitive dissonance can be a powerful tool to shelter ones self from reality.

The latest piece of denial to ping around the echo chamber comes courtesy of Mr Watt’s blog and is titled “What else did the ’97% of scientists’ say?” As you may have guessed it is the there is no consensus myth/meme/lie.

This post is authored by well-known climate “sceptic” Barry Woods:

I wonder just how many politicians, environmentalists or scientists who use the phrase ’97% of scientists’ (or those who more carefully use ‘active climate scientists’) to give weight to their arguments regarding climate change to the public, have any idea of the actual source of this soundbite.

I wonder, I really do.

Actually, I really do know where that figure comes from because I took the time to check all the facts. But let’s continue down the tortuous, twisting and amusing path of denial as an illustrative example in creating denier memes.

Woods is attempting to discredit the methodology and results of the paper “”Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” by Doran and Zimmerman.

Wood starts to frame the issue nicely:

In a world where politicians (UK) went to war in Iraq based on a ‘sexed’ up dodgy dossier plagiarised from a 12 year old PhD thesis. I wonder how confident they would be lecturing the public about the need for radical decarbonising economic climate polices, if they were aware that the ’97% of active climate scientists’ quote/soundbite actually comes from a students MSc thesis, that the Doran EoS paper cites?

Yes, the WMD scandal and climate science are the same. How? I don’t know, but it must involve a conspiracy. My money is on the Illuminati. Or the socialists. Or both.

Skeptical Science has a good summary of the Doran survey here:

A survey of 3146 earth scientists asked the question “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” (Doran 2009). More than 90% of participants had Ph.D.s, and 7% had master’s degrees. Overall, 82% of the scientists answered yes. However, what are most interesting are responses compared to the level of expertise in climate science. Of scientists who were non-climatologists and didn’t publish research, 77% answered yes…

Which of coursed has outraged sceptics such as Woods, because the answer they want is “no”.

However in order to turn a positive response into a negative – or at least uncertain – Wood has fished out the original Masters of Science thesis by Zimmerman and cherry picked some of the respondents answers:

As this MSc thesis was the original source of the oft cited Doran paper 97% quote, I tracked it down (sometime ago now) and discovered in the appendi that there was a great deal of email feedback and answers to write in questions from the scientists that actually participated in the survey, much of it critical and sceptical of the survey itself, the methodology and the questions asked. Additionally, amongst those environmental scientists that responded, were some very sceptical sounding scientists with respect to man made climate change being the dominant driver of climate change.

“..Science is based on scepticism and experimental proof. Whereas human GHG emissions certainly have a warming effect, the breakdown between natural and anthropogenic contributions to warming is poorly constrained.

Remember that the warming since 1650 AD (not 1900) is part of a real ‘millennial cycle’ whose amplitude cannot yet be explained by any quantitative theory.

Also, the computer climate models are both too complex to be readily understood and too simple to describe reality.

Believing their results is an act of faith…”

I’m shocked!

Should I question the science, and revise my entire “faith” in “catastrophic anthropogenic global warming”?

Actually I’m not all shocked, nor surprised that Wood managed to cherry pick a few choice quotes. Wood’s has simply picked out zeroed in on the tiny minority of quotes, and ignored the other respondents.

Now if our entire “belief” that 97% of scientists accept the science is based one supposedly flawed study it might give us pause. But of course, just like the science of climate change there are multiple lines of evidence supporting this statement:

The 2004 study by Noami Oreskes, “The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change” surveyed all peer-reviewed papers on global warming between 1993 and 2003 found not one disputed the consensus. 75% where in agreement and 25% made no statement because those papers focused on methodology.
The more recent 2010 paper by Anderegg, “Expert credibility in climate change” went beyond surveys and reviewed the actual published work of over 1300 climatologists and found 97-98% in agreement that climate change is real.

Let’s not forget there is not a single national scientific academy on the planet who question the science. However, former mining executives, bloggers funded by think tanks and swarms of angry online trolls do.

Knowing who the expert is can sometimes be challenging.

Here’s an analogy: if I was on an operating table and the person standing next to me in hospital garb was holding a scalpel surrounded by nurses, medical equipment in what looked like an operating theater I’m going to make the leap of faith and consider them some sort of expert.

Or, I could go on the internet, Google my malady and place my trust in “Thegreatbigdoctorconspiracy.com”.

link


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#1115832 - 21/07/2012 10:15 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Good one CB.... laugh. Direct from the Academy of Empty Heads.
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1115834 - 21/07/2012 10:33 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
Anthony Violi Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2001
Posts: 2336
Loc: Mt Barker - SA
Why would nt we leave data unadjusted and let nature work out whats going on CeeBee?

Oh yes i know why, because then the scam would be dead.

You are on the immoral side, trying to back up criminal behaviour, whilst 99% of people see the truth as one by one the predictions of the AGW movement come crashing down.

So where to next when the Arctic ice recovers in the next decade?

Already the permanent El nino and permanent drought have been debunked.

All 23 IPCC models are hogwash, HAdcrut adjusted to the hilt and shows a flat line since 1997. And well under model projections. In fact we are so far under Hansens Scenario C, which was that humans became extinct in 2000, and that with Hansen adjusting Giss to levels that are so far fetched from reality its an embarrassment.

Too funny, you only post articles about the US...a mere 9% or so of the globe.

Meanwhile, real people with any brains in their head are seeing whats coming.
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#1115840 - 21/07/2012 10:56 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Anthony Violi]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Quote:
The more recent 2010 paper by Anderegg, “Expert credibility in climate change” went beyond surveys and reviewed the actual published work of over 1300 climatologists and found 97-98% in agreement that climate change is real.

Meanwhile, back in the Real World:

Raw temp data - 2003 - 2013 . Again, I must ask, Where's the warming?
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1115847 - 21/07/2012 11:33 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Sorry, should read 2002 - 2013... blush
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1115858 - 21/07/2012 12:47 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
Bill Illis Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 11/07/2010
Posts: 1003

CeeBee is correct here.

0.7K of warming is clearly caused by CO2. It was too cold to grow any crops in Canada, Russia and Europe until the last 10 years. It is now too warm to grow Corn in Iowa. Corn originated at the equator which is much colder than Iowa is now. The extra 0.7K on top of the previous 287K is hard to dismiss.

75 of the 10,257 people surveyed (97% in other words) answered Yes to a question put to them.

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#1115871 - 21/07/2012 14:41 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
Bello Weather Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 10/07/2012
Posts: 358
Loc: Bellingen NSW 2454
Originally Posted By: snafu
Good one CB.... laugh. Direct from the Academy of Empty Heads.
as opposed to the academy of conspiracy theorists, which this forum appears to be full of. What I read on here is that apparently all the major meteorological offices around the world have been altering their data to meet some unknown but obviously organised agenda. Look, I can understand u sceptics / conspiracy theorists all wanting to hang out together in a safe space where u have mates around u who agree with your perspective, but please drop the attacks on those who do not see world as one full of people with secret agendas. Does this forum no good at all.
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#1115873 - 21/07/2012 15:01 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Bello Weather]
Seina Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7770
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: Climate Strange
Originally Posted By: snafu
Good one CB.... laugh. Direct from the Academy of Empty Heads.
as opposed to the academy of conspiracy theorists, which this forum appears to be full of. What I read on here is that apparently all the major meteorological offices around the world have been altering their data to meet some unknown but obviously organised agenda. Look, I can understand u sceptics / conspiracy theorists all wanting to hang out together in a safe space where u have mates around u who agree with your perspective, but please drop the attacks on those who do not see world as one full of people with secret agendas. Does this forum no good at all.

The waters are already sufficiently muddied by the vitriol and innuendo regardless of peoples’ points of view mad .

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#1115874 - 21/07/2012 15:04 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Bello Weather]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Originally Posted By: Climate Strange
Originally Posted By: snafu
Good one CB.... laugh. Direct from the Academy of Empty Heads.
as opposed to the academy of conspiracy theorists, which this forum appears to be full of. What I read on here is that apparently all the major meteorological offices around the world have been altering their data to meet some unknown but obviously organised agenda. Look, I can understand u sceptics / conspiracy theorists all wanting to hang out together in a safe space where u have mates around u who agree with your perspective, but please drop the attacks on those who do not see world as one full of people with secret agendas. Does this forum no good at all.

Whether it's a conspiracy theory or not....Mother Nature (after all, She IS the one in control. Not us) ain't playing their game or their computer games....and they don't like it, and are becoming an embarrassment to the 'science'.

eg: Not A Dry Summer Since 2003
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1115876 - 21/07/2012 15:43 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
The Corner

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/309442/football-and-hockey-mark-steyn

The one and only.

Football and Hockey


By Mark Steyn

July 15, 2012 6:22 P.M.

In the wake of Louis Freeh’s report on Penn State’s complicity in serial rape, Rand Simberg writes of Unhappy Valley’s other scandal:


I’m referring to another cover up and whitewash that occurred there two years ago, before we learned how rotten and corrupt the culture at the university was. But now that we know how bad it was, perhaps it’s time that we revisit the Michael Mann affair, particularly given how much we’ve also learned about his and others’ hockey-stick deceptions since. Mann could be said to be the Jerry Sandusky of climate science, except that instead of molesting children, he has molested and tortured data in the service of politicized science that could have dire economic consequences for the nation and planet.

Not sure I’d have extended that metaphor all the way into the locker-room showers with quite the zeal Mr Simberg does, but he has a point. Michael Mann was the man behind the fraudulent climate-change “hockey-stick” graph, the very ringmaster of the tree-ring circus. And, when the East Anglia emails came out, Penn State felt obliged to “investigate” Professor Mann. Graham Spanier, the Penn State president forced to resign over Sandusky, was the same cove who investigated Mann. And, as with Sandusky and Paterno, the college declined to find one of its star names guilty of any wrongdoing.

If an institution is prepared to cover up systemic statutory rape of minors, what won’t it cover up? Whether or not he’s “the Jerry Sandusky of climate change”, he remains the Michael Mann of climate change, in part because his “investigation” by a deeply corrupt administration was a joke.


-------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Michael Mann invokes the Streisand effect

Posted on July 20, 2012by Anthony Watts
(1) http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/20/mann-invokes-the-streisand-effect-on-twitter/#more-67852

(2) https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMannScientist/posts/267470906700950

Now that Dr. Mann has drawn attention to it, even more people will want to read the National Review article “Football and Hockey” to find out what he’s so upset about. I didn’t even know about this article until Mann tweeted this demand announcement today. This announcement on Twitter is probably a bad move on Dr. Mann’s part. Here’s why:


From Wikipedia: The Streisand effect is a primarily online phenomenon in which an attempt to hide or remove a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely. It is named after American entertainer Barbra Streisand, whose attempt in 2003 to suppress photographs of her residence inadvertently generated further publicity.

Similar attempts have been made, for example, in cease-and-desist letters, to suppress numbers, files and websites. Instead of being suppressed, the information receives extensive publicity and media extensions such as videos and spoof songs, often being widely mirrored across the Internet or distributed on file-sharing networks.

Mike Masnick of Techdirt coined the term after Streisand, citing privacy violations, unsuccessfully sued photographer Kenneth Adelman and Pictopia.com for US$50 million in an attempt to have an aerial photograph of her mansion removed from the publicly available collection of 12,000 California coastline photographs. Adelman said that he was photographing beachfront property to document coastal erosion as part of the government sanctioned and commissioned California Coastal Records Project. Before Streisand filed her lawsuit, “Image 3850″ had been downloaded from Adelman’s website only six times; two of those downloads were by Streisand’s attorneys. As a result of the case, public knowledge of the picture increased substantially; more than 420,000 people visited the site over the following month.

You’d think after his botched attempt to get this video removed, Dr. Mann would learned that lesson. For the record, I don’t agree with the article Steyn cites in the National Review, but I think Dr. Mann’s effort to get it removed will backfire on him.

h/t to Tom Nelson
_________________________
785mm Jan
799mm Feb
130 March
2019 Total 1714mm
2018 Total 822mm






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#1115882 - 21/07/2012 16:49 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Anthony Violi]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654
Originally Posted By: Anthony Violi
Why would nt we leave data unadjusted and let nature work out whats going on CeeBee?

Oh yes i know why, because then the scam would be dead.

You are on the immoral side, trying to back up criminal behaviour, whilst 99% of people see the truth as one by one the predictions of the AGW movement come crashing down.

So where to next when the Arctic ice recovers in the next decade?

Already the permanent El nino and permanent drought have been debunked.

All 23 IPCC models are hogwash, HAdcrut adjusted to the hilt and shows a flat line since 1997. And well under model projections. In fact we are so far under Hansens Scenario C, which was that humans became extinct in 2000, and that with Hansen adjusting Giss to levels that are so far fetched from reality its an embarrassment.

Too funny, you only post articles about the US...a mere 9% or so of the globe.

Meanwhile, real people with any brains in their head are seeing whats coming.


Some prime examples above of skeptics making up stuff....

Anthony you said:

"Why would nt we leave data unadjusted and let nature work out whats going on CeeBee?"

So you think that we should leave the Urban Heat Island effect in the temps record do you?

You do realise that by not adjusting for the Urban Heat Island effect the temps record will be showing even more warming.

Surely you wouldn't want that now would you?
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#1115884 - 21/07/2012 17:20 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Anthony Violi Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2001
Posts: 2336
Loc: Mt Barker - SA
Ceebee your incompotence is mind blowing...even with UHI, unadjusted temps show no temperature rise since 1895, and falling since the 1930s...all with UHI in full effect last 20 years...so yes i would like that.
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#1115895 - 21/07/2012 18:24 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Anthony Violi]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654


Another prime example above of a skeptic making up stuff. Come on all you other skeptics here - do you also agree with what Anthony just claimed above?

If so then back him up with actual evidence that unadjusted temps show no temperature rise since 1895, and falling since the 1930s...all with UHI in full effect last 20 years.
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#1115912 - 21/07/2012 21:30 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Well of course any data from CRU/IPCC?NASA will show global warming - it's what you lot laughingly call proof - hockey stick anyone?

Lets see how well cAGW is travelling at the moment - these are just the things I can think of at teh drop of a hat.

Models have failed, in fact every prediction has failed, artic sea ice is still there, no polar bears have drowned because of cAGW, no island nations are currently under water either, nor will a 2C temprature increase kill anyone, but it will increase plant production not destroy the planet, sorry but cAGW has not caused earthquakes, no bush fires started either, no cyclones/hurricanes/typhoons/tornadoes/droughts/floods/plagues of refugees/mice/diseases/plant migration, no power has been saved by solar/wind/tide that didn't need massive amounts of coal/hydro and nuclear power to assist in it's production, public opinion has flagged to an all time low, governments have stopped "green" power policies as just too expensive, Australia is paying a carbon tax of $23.00 a ton where in the rest of the world it is barely cracking $5.00, the UN couldn't organise a group hug let alone bringing together every nation to work on a phantom problem because no one believes in your meme anymore.

Yep it certainly looks like your mob are in sterling shape CB.
_________________________
785mm Jan
799mm Feb
130 March
2019 Total 1714mm
2018 Total 822mm






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#1115916 - 21/07/2012 21:50 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6050
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
Funny you should mention that CB, now I have not seen any of this of late, but just saw this from a long ago post on this thread by accident...


http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/ruti/europe/western-europe-rural-temperature-trend.php


Edited by bd bucketingdown (21/07/2012 21:51)

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