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#1116272 - 24/07/2012 14:27 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654



Your claim about the record low CO2 levels is not correct. That aside what is causing the current rise in CO2 snafu? a hint: Humans.

"mankind has caused the CO2 content in the atmosphere to rise as much in just 150 years as it rose over 8,000 years during the transition from the last ice age to the current interglacial period"

Think about the importance of that fact. We have done in just 150 years what would usually take 8,000 years.
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#1116287 - 24/07/2012 15:41 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
New research in Antarctica shows CO2 follows temperature “by a few hundred years at most”

Posted on July 23, 2012by Anthony Watts


The question of “which comes first, the temperature or the CO2 rise?” has been much like the proverbial “which came first, the chicken or the egg?” question. This seems to settle it – temperature came first, followed by an increase in CO2 outgassing from the ocean surrounding Antarctica.

“Our analyses of ice cores from the ice sheet in Antarctica shows that the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere follows the rise in Antarctic temperatures very closely and is staggered by a few hundred years at most,” - Sune Olander Rasmussen


http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/23/ne...-years-at-most/ Read the rest of it here. Graphs pictures maps etc.
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#1116292 - 24/07/2012 16:00 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
snafu Offline
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Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Originally Posted By: CeeBee
Your claim about the record low CO2 levels is not correct.

And you have evidence of that I presume?
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1116302 - 24/07/2012 16:29 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
snafu Offline
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Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Sugar cane ethanol biofuel produces 10 times the pollution of gasoline and diesel

Indur Goklany calculated that biofuels policies killed nearly 200,000 people in 2010 alone. That was before this study showed things may be worse than we suspected.

Brazil is the largest sugar cane ethanol producer in the world, but people are burning four times the area of sugar cane plantations than previously realized, and it’s producing far more pollution than they thought. For every unit of energy generated, the ethanol-biofuel use produces a lot less CO2 (plant fertilizer) but more volatile organic compounds (VOC’s), more carbon monoxide, more nitrous oxides, as well as more sulphur dioxides. (See Graph b below).

Compared to gasoline and diesel, over its whole life cycle, every unit of energy produced with sugar cane produces 10 times as much volatile organic compounds (VOC’s), carbon monoxide, and nitrous oxides. The amount PM10′s and PM2.5′s produced with ethanol fuels is even higher. Most of the pollution comes from burning fields of sugar cane (see graph a). Hence the people suffering the most from ethanol production will be villagers and rural farmers living near areas of sugar cane production. While there have been efforts to encourage farmers to produce cane without burning fields, over half of sugar-cane crop loads continue to be burned. Presumably there is a cost to producing sugar cane without burning. Perhaps sugar-cane production is viable and competitive without burning but this study does not discuss the reasons farmers prefer to burn fields.

If you care about pollution, and want less of it, and you care about the health of people in developing countries then clearly we should encourage gasoline and diesel use, and discourage production of ethanol that involves burning sugar cane-fields.

Likewise, to promote growth in the Amazon (by increasing CO2 levels), we ought to be burning fossil fuels and not fields of cane.

If global policies devalue concentrated energy underground and prize diffuse photosynthetic sources of energy above ground, will we protect and retain dirty rocks deep below the surface at the expense of biodiversity and health of plants and people? It seems so.


JoNova - 22nd July 2012
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1116336 - 24/07/2012 21:01 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
snafu Offline
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Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Back to the Future: Paradise Lost, or Paradise Regained? - Guest post by Paul MacRae

In June, a NASA climate study announced that the warm middle Miocene era, about 16 million years ago, had carbon dioxide levels of 400 to 600 parts per million. The coasts of Antarctica were ice-free in summer, with summer temperatures 11° Celsius warmer than today. The study concluded that today’s CO2 level of 393 ppm was the highest, therefore, in millions of years, and could go to Miocene levels by the end of the century. It was implied, although not directly stated, that readers should react with horror.

A UCLA team, writing in Science, had already pushed the Miocene button in 2009, claiming: “The last time carbon dioxide levels were apparently as high as they are today [15 million years ago, again the mid-Miocene]—and were sustained at those levels—global temperatures were 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit [2.7-5.5°C] higher than they are today, the sea level was approximately 75 to 120 feet higher than today, there was no permanent sea ice cap in the Arctic and very little ice on Antarctica and Greenland.” Back to the Miocene! Scary!

James Hansen, the alarmist head of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), regularly refers to past eras as a warning of the climate catastrophes that could occur today. For example, in 2011 Hansen warned: “[An increase of] two degrees Celsius is guaranteed disaster…. It is equivalent to the early Pliocene epoch [between 5.5 and 2.5 million years ago] when the sea level was 25m (75 feet) higher.” Back to the early Pliocene! Horror!


WUWT - 24th July, 2012
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1116338 - 24/07/2012 21:32 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Originally Posted By: CeeBee
Good on you snafu for posting this important study. It backs up what I've been saying here all along. That human activity has increased CO2 levels and that the current warming is due to those high CO2 levels.

It also states that CO2 lags behind temp.... wink
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1116427 - 25/07/2012 12:54 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654



ANTHONY WATTS CHERRY PICKS QUOTE ABOUT RECORD GREENLAND MELT: SURPRISED? HARDLY


When I read about the unprecedented melting of the Greenland ice sheet I had an inkling what the response fo the denial bloggerati would be…

Sure enough, like clock work, Anthony Watt’s cherry picks the very quote I thought the deniers would zero in on:

“Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time,” says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data…”

Watt’s most likely scanned this article and left out the important aspects that qualify the above. I’ve highlighted what Watt’s chopped off:

“If you look at the 8 July image that might be the maximum extent of warming you would see in the summer,” Zwally noted. “There have been periods when melting might have occurred at higher elevations briefly – maybe for a day or so – but to have it cover the whole of Greenland like this is unknown, certainly in the time of satellite records.”

Lora Koenig, another Goddard glaciologist, told Nasa similar rapid melting occurs about every 150 years. But she warned there were wide-ranging potential implications from this year’s thaw.

“If we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome.” she told Nasa.

And here is the amusing, ever so tricksy thing deniers love to do: Watt’s does not link or reference the original article, but cherry picks part of the quote.

Context is everything: Watts is no fool, his is a deliberate choice to edit out information. That’s not honest scepticism, its a malicious form of misinformation.

Denial is easy: just hunt for itsy-bitsy pieces of information that confirm your bias and magnify their importance.
link

----------------

Satellites See Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Melt

For several days this month, Greenland's surface ice cover melted over a larger area than at any time in more than 30 years of satellite observations. Nearly the entire ice cover of Greenland, from its thin, low-lying coastal edges to its two-mile-thick center, experienced some degree of melting at its surface, according to measurements from three independent satellites analyzed by NASA and university scientists.

On average in the summer, about half of the surface of Greenland's ice sheet naturally melts. At high elevations, most of that melt water quickly refreezes in place. Near the coast, some of the melt water is retained by the ice sheet and the rest is lost to the ocean. But this year the extent of ice melting at or near the surface jumped dramatically. According to satellite data, an estimated 97 percent of the ice sheet surface thawed at some point in mid-July.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/greenland-melt.html
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#1116433 - 25/07/2012 13:56 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6050
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
]I can see clearly link to the original article from NASA there...shody journalism, should check facts properly!
"I had to laugh at the title of their press release(LINKED TO NASA Article), where they cite “Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Melt”, then contradict themselves when the main researcher goes on to say “melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889"
In fact the whole article is clearly there if one were to click on the whole article expanded version of WUWT! article!
So the release article is complete nonsense from you!


Edited by bd bucketingdown (25/07/2012 13:59)

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#1116436 - 25/07/2012 14:10 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Hmm! From the same NASA link and article as CeeBee's has linked above;

Quote:

The melting spread quickly. Melt maps derived from the three satellites showed that on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet's surface had melted. By July 12, 97 percent had melted.

This extreme melt event coincided with an unusually strong ridge of warm air, or a heat dome, over Greenland. The ridge was one of a series that has dominated Greenland's weather since the end of May. "Each successive ridge has been stronger than the previous one," said Mote. This latest heat dome started to move over Greenland on July 8, and then parked itself over the ice sheet about three days later. By July 16, it had begun to dissipate.

Even the area around Summit Station in central Greenland, which at 2 miles above sea level is near the highest point of the ice sheet, showed signs of melting. Such pronounced melting at Summit and across the ice sheet has not occurred since 1889, according to ice cores analyzed by Kaitlin Keegan at Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H. A National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration weather station at Summit confirmed air temperatures hovered above or within a degree of freezing for several hours July 11-12.

"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."


Sounds all a very normal and natural occurrence when looked at over even short climate related intervals spanning many decades and centuries and not just over the last couple of decades that the alarmists like to use.
We might even get to find a few more of those 700 to 900 year old, buried under ice, Viking farms and settlements if the ice melts enough.

Greenland has had substantially warmer periods than even before the Viking settlements in about 1000 AD.
And substantially warmer periods than the present.
The earliest known cultures that lived in North Eastern and north western Greenland, areas that are far too cold today to support the Inuits, were the "Independence I culture" followed by the "Independence II culture" which was contemporary with the "Saqqaq culture".
These cultures existed in NE and NW Greenland around 2400 BC to 1000 BC.
From a paper of a year or so ago, i recall that what is believed to be some evidence of what is believed to be some of their semi permanent settlements have been found along Greenland's northern coast lines.
Other evidence of these cultures is now probably some 30 metres or more below the sea surface as the sea levels have risen over the last 3000 years following the end of the last great ice age some 12,000 years ago.

Northern Greenland is now too cold and has too an extreme climate for even the Inuit peoples to inhabit .
The Inuit in fact possibly only appeared in Greenland sometime well after the settlement of southern Greenland by the Vikings around 1000 AD.
The Greenland sagas record what seems to have been armed clashes between the Viking settlers and the newly appeared Inuits

Given this archeological history of past much warmer temperatures and warm to the extent that human habitation of the now extreme cold conditions of Greenland's North and North East could exist over a time span exceeding a 1000 years and the identification of an apparent 150 year cycle in the melt of the top couple of metres of parts of the maximum thickness Ice sheet of 3300 metres and a melt that is currently occurring in temperatures at the ice cap summit of -8 to minus -17 C.

I hunted around and found the weather station data for Greenland.

The first data is the for the Summit, the highest and probably coldest part of Greenland at the moment.


For the second Greenland temperature station, I went through a few stations to find the highest temperature data so as to provide a fair comparison.



I wonder who the real cherry picker is and I do note that "Deniers" was a term used above by CB.
I wonder if CS is onto the case?

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#1116437 - 25/07/2012 14:14 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
CeeBee - can you explain how the "carbins" did it?

Quote:
According to satellite data, an estimated 97 percent of the ice sheet surface thawed at some point in mid-July


I'll give you a head start: That point was July 12 - and only on July 12.

If we understand that on July 12 we had the strongest Solar flare this cycle - and one pointed directly at the Earth

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/News071212-X1.4flare.html

Then there are two obvious possibilities: The satelites are wrong [they were temporarily affected by the flare]; or the reflection of the flare's energy from the ice overwhelmed the sensors - in each case making the sensors "believe" Greenland melted.

From the NASA article
Quote:
Even the area around Summit Station in central Greenland, which at 2 miles above sea level is near the highest point of the ice sheet, showed signs of melting. Such pronounced melting at Summit and across the ice sheet has not occurred since 1889


It is very unlikley there actually was melt at the various Greenland Ice Cap stations - most of them did not significantly exceed zero for any long periods of time - See Summit Station

It is interesting that the period from 11 July - 18 July is a peak for Radiation - where some 40W/m2 more than at other tiems was received.

See NASA-U or scroll through the stations setting a last 30 day data request.

I reckon the jury's out in this one - my bet is that there will be a small article some time in the future better explaining this [and of course there will be no equivalent media release and these meltying record headlines will remain in perpetuity quoted by SkS and other propagandist sites] Sad.
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1116439 - 25/07/2012 14:15 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
ha beat me to it ROM... Same site!

Good to see someone else actually looks at data. smile
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1116451 - 25/07/2012 15:52 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654
Originally Posted By: Arnost
CeeBee - can you explain how the "carbins" did it?

Quote:
According to satellite data, an estimated 97 percent of the ice sheet surface thawed at some point in mid-July


I'll give you a head start: That point was July 12 - and only on July 12.

If we understand that on July 12 we had the strongest Solar flare this cycle - and one pointed directly at the Earth

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/News071212-X1.4flare.html

Then there are two obvious possibilities: The satelites are wrong [they were temporarily affected by the flare]; or the reflection of the flare's energy from the ice overwhelmed the sensors - in each case making the sensors "believe" Greenland melted.

From the NASA article
Quote:
Even the area around Summit Station in central Greenland, which at 2 miles above sea level is near the highest point of the ice sheet, showed signs of melting. Such pronounced melting at Summit and across the ice sheet has not occurred since 1889


It is very unlikley there actually was melt at the various Greenland Ice Cap stations - most of them did not significantly exceed zero for any long periods of time - See Summit Station

It is interesting that the period from 11 July - 18 July is a peak for Radiation - where some 40W/m2 more than at other tiems was received.

See NASA-U or scroll through the stations setting a last 30 day data request.

I reckon the jury's out in this one - my bet is that there will be a small article some time in the future better explaining this [and of course there will be no equivalent media release and these meltying record headlines will remain in perpetuity quoted by SkS and other propagandist sites] Sad.


Haha classic! When there's an event you don't like you blame the equipment. The only failure here is your ability to accept anything that threatens your beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with any of the equipment.

Thomas Mote, a climatologist at the University of Georgia, Athens, Ga; and Marco Tedesco of City University of New York also confirmed the melt seen by Oceansat-2 and MODIS with passive-microwave satellite data from the Special Sensor Microwave Imager/Sounder on a U.S. Air Force meteorological satellite.

The melting spread quickly. Melt maps derived from the three satellites showed that on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet's surface had melted. By July 12, 97 percent had melted.
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#1116456 - 25/07/2012 16:07 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654
This is an actual account from a scientist on the Greenland ice sheet


New Summit Melt Layer

I arrived at Summit Station on July 13th, while traveling with the Joint Science and Education Program (JSEP) for a short visit to the camp. When we arrived, Summit Station had been experiencing above freezing temperatures for multiple days prior to our arrival and a melt layer formed on the near surface snow. I have been studying the physical properties of the top layers of the ice, the firn, at Summit and NEEM for my Ph.D. research. Recently, I have been focused on the melt layers present in both firn cores because they occur very infrequently. At Summit, there is only one other melt layer besides the melt layer from this past week and this previous melt layer dates to 1889.

http://dartmouthigert.wordpress.com/2012/07/21/new-summit-melt-layer/
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#1116460 - 25/07/2012 16:30 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: ROM]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654
Originally Posted By: ROM
Hmm! From the same NASA link and article as CeeBee's has linked above;

Quote:

The melting spread quickly. Melt maps derived from the three satellites showed that on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet's surface had melted. By July 12, 97 percent had melted.

This extreme melt event coincided with an unusually strong ridge of warm air, or a heat dome, over Greenland. The ridge was one of a series that has dominated Greenland's weather since the end of May. "Each successive ridge has been stronger than the previous one," said Mote. This latest heat dome started to move over Greenland on July 8, and then parked itself over the ice sheet about three days later. By July 16, it had begun to dissipate.

Even the area around Summit Station in central Greenland, which at 2 miles above sea level is near the highest point of the ice sheet, showed signs of melting. Such pronounced melting at Summit and across the ice sheet has not occurred since 1889, according to ice cores analyzed by Kaitlin Keegan at Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H. A National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration weather station at Summit confirmed air temperatures hovered above or within a degree of freezing for several hours July 11-12.

"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."


Sounds all a very normal and natural occurrence when looked at over even short climate related intervals spanning many decades and centuries and not just over the last couple of decades that the alarmists like to use.
We might even get to find a few more of those 700 to 900 year old, buried under ice, Viking farms and settlements if the ice melts enough.

Greenland has had substantially warmer periods than even before the Viking settlements in about 1000 AD.
And substantially warmer periods than the present.
The earliest known cultures that lived in North Eastern and north western Greenland, areas that are far too cold today to support the Inuits, were the "Independence I culture" followed by the "Independence II culture" which was contemporary with the "Saqqaq culture".
These cultures existed in NE and NW Greenland around 2400 BC to 1000 BC.
From a paper of a year or so ago, i recall that what is believed to be some evidence of what is believed to be some of their semi permanent settlements have been found along Greenland's northern coast lines.
Other evidence of these cultures is now probably some 30 metres or more below the sea surface as the sea levels have risen over the last 3000 years following the end of the last great ice age some 12,000 years ago.

Northern Greenland is now too cold and has too an extreme climate for even the Inuit peoples to inhabit .
The Inuit in fact possibly only appeared in Greenland sometime well after the settlement of southern Greenland by the Vikings around 1000 AD.
The Greenland sagas record what seems to have been armed clashes between the Viking settlers and the newly appeared Inuits

Given this archeological history of past much warmer temperatures and warm to the extent that human habitation of the now extreme cold conditions of Greenland's North and North East could exist over a time span exceeding a 1000 years and the identification of an apparent 150 year cycle in the melt of the top couple of metres of parts of the maximum thickness Ice sheet of 3300 metres and a melt that is currently occurring in temperatures at the ice cap summit of -8 to minus -17 C.

I hunted around and found the weather station data for Greenland.

The first data is the for the Summit, the highest and probably coldest part of Greenland at the moment.


For the second Greenland temperature station, I went through a few stations to find the highest temperature data so as to provide a fair comparison.



I wonder who the real cherry picker is and I do note that "Deniers" was a term used above by CB.
I wonder if CS is onto the case?


ROM, why didn't you show the temp graphs for the period during the melt event hmmm?

This is why you didn't show them. They show temps well above freezing...



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#1116475 - 25/07/2012 17:53 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
marakai Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/01/2006
Posts: 2270
Loc: Maryfarms NQ
So umm it was as warm way back in 1889 then ?

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#1116478 - 25/07/2012 18:04 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Originally Posted By: CeeBee

At Summit, there is only one other melt layer besides the melt layer from this past week and this previous melt layer dates to 1889.

Which just goes to show that it has all happened before, no doubt an almost uncountable number of times over geological time.

And it didn't need any rise in CO2 levels to cause those previous melts.
Just some still unknown factors that changed the Greenland Ice cap weather systems for a few hours or days or for a few months just like it has this time around as well.

And just imagine the terrible mess if ice some 3300 metes thick at it's thickest, covering 1,710,000 square kilometres or an area the same size as Queensland and with a volume of nearly 3000,000 cubic kilometres was to melt in a few tens or scores of centuries with these above freezing temps for a few days every few decades and a melt of a few centimetres of the Ice Cap surface every 120 years or so![ /sarc]

Just for relativity and comparison.
Sydney Harbour has a volume of .56 Cubic ,Kms or just over half a cubic kilometre of water.
Port Phillip Bay has a 25 cubic kilometre volume of water.

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#1116480 - 25/07/2012 18:18 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
The implication from the NASA article is clear, that for a couple of days mid July there was an unexpected melt. Peaking at 12 July. Nowhere does it say that the melt is continuing and in fact the implication is that it's all over by 16 July.

From the article: "For several days this month" the ice melted... "on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet's surface had melted. By July 12, 97 percent had melted" ... By July 16 it had begun to dissipate.

The problem with these graphs CeeBee is that by the 17/19 July, when the temps in these graph appear to be at their highest, it was all over. Sort of counterinutive don't you think? Or is it that those carbins can cause widescale metling when the "temperature hovered above or within a degree of freezing for several hours" but cause widescale freezing when the temperatures are way above?

I would bet that if there was even more melt after the 16th then that the NASA article would highlight that! Instead it glosses over that fact and hopes nobody chacks - or uses their brain.
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1116482 - 25/07/2012 18:22 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Anthony Violi Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2001
Posts: 2336
Loc: Mt Barker - SA
Ceebee, what was the Co2 level in 1889?

And why does Hansen think it was one of the coldest years in the newly adjusted database, and Hadcrut 4?
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#1116489 - 25/07/2012 18:47 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Originally Posted By: CeeBee
This is an actual account from a scientist on the Greenland ice sheet


New Summit Melt Layer

I arrived at Summit Station on July 13th, while traveling with the Joint Science and Education Program (JSEP) for a short visit to the camp. When we arrived, Summit Station had been experiencing above freezing temperatures for multiple days prior to our arrival and a melt layer formed on the near surface snow. I have been studying the physical properties of the top layers of the ice, the firn, at Summit and NEEM for my Ph.D. research. Recently, I have been focused on the melt layers present in both firn cores because they occur very infrequently. At Summit, there is only one other melt layer besides the melt layer from this past week and this previous melt layer dates to 1889.

http://dartmouthigert.wordpress.com/2012/07/21/new-summit-melt-layer/



There is a wonderful question at the bottom of that blog post:

[quote]

"Several other recent years have also seen temperatures at Summit going above freezing. Was there any melting at during these incidents?"


HMMMMMMM.... be interesting to find out!
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1116490 - 25/07/2012 18:47 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Anthony Violi]
MC Thomas Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/12/2004
Posts: 1119
Loc: Melbourne
I know this is a public forum and therefore the rules can be a little lax when discussing science. I will have to say though, it is a small pet hate of mine seeing CO (as in Carbon-Oxygen) written as Co (which is Cobalt). In CO2 the "2" should also be subscripted but that's a little difficult to do so I will let that one go :), but it is possible!- CO2

I make plenty of typos and grammatical errors so I really can't criticise. No offense intended.

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