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#1115935 - 22/07/2012 02:43 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Oh dear, look what I just found.... smile

Big Oil's Secret: They Support Global Warming Policy : July 18, 2012

There was once a company named "Glori Oil" based in Houston, Texas, according to its website, it was:

A Delaware corporation founded in 2005 to commercialize technology developed by 'The Energy and Resources Institute' (known as TERI).




It's important to note that TERI, now unanimously known as 'The Energy and Resources Institute' was once actually named "Tata Energy and Resources Institute', but I'll get back to that later.

Glori Oil also later changed its name to Glori Energy, Inc. and recently appointed a certain Robert Button as President of Glori Holdings, a subsidiary of Glori Energy.




Glori Energy's slogan: "Tomorrows oil from yesterday's wells."

Many might think that such environmentally unfriendly "Big Oil" company must be lobbying and spreading lies in the anthropogenic global warming/climate change debate to protect its dirty business.

Well, yes that's true, but here's the fun part (you're going to love this).

The Business Week link above lists a certain Dr. Rajendra Kumar Pachauri as founder of Glori Oil/Glori Energy, Inc., but for some reason, his name doesn't appear on glorienergy.com (although it did appear on glorioil.com not just as founder but as head of the company).

Well, Dr. Rajendra Kumar Pachauri is none other than the Nobel Peace Prize-winning chairperson of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), that was established by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations' Environment Programme since 2002.

This is the same IPCC that insists that fossil fuels and human CO2 emissions are driving the warming of global climate; that "the science is settled", that solar cycles have no or very little impact on our climate, that the earth and its inhabitants are doomed if we don't tax and trade...I mean 'curb' our carbon emissions.


Full article here

Dr Rajendra Pachauri


Oh my goodness........the wheelnuts... smirk
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1115936 - 22/07/2012 02:58 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
marakai Offline
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Registered: 05/01/2006
Posts: 1904
Loc: Maryfarms NQ
Haa Haa, next thing you know CeeBee will be blaming the unpopularity of prime Minister Gillard on Global Warming, Oh wait hang on....

See, the thing is that when you blame any and everything on AGW and parrot any and everythingthat you see and hear as a supposed result of AGW in an attempt to support an ideology you ultimately show your true colours.

When you question and doubt you can and do make mistakes but ultimately you find the truth. Which no matter how you look at it is a far cry from assuming the stance of being correct in the first place and then assembling evidence to support that point of view and then rearranging that evidence when the facts do not support your fiction.

I doubt very much Anthony would be able to find an honest representation of Global temperature since 1895 to prove anything given the adjustments and total lack of global coverage both historically and presently , Just as an example of what I mean take a look here. http://climateaudit.org/2008/02/10/historical-station-distribution/

Just to clarify things CeeBee it is Co2 that is the problem right ? That's the big nasty that is making the world warm right?

If I can I would like to add another question to the other two I have witnessed recently asked of you (yet to see an answer to either by the way). Q: If as you propose Co2 is the main cause of global warming can you point us all towards a peer reviewed paper that
1. Identifies unambiguously with empirical evidence a defined line between natural and unnatural warming, given that the most reliable temperature records IE satellite show no elevated rise in temperature trends outside of if any natural variability.?
2. Shows any credible empirical evidence that manmade Co2 elevates the planets temperature at all, IE any repeatable scientific empirical evidence outside of a laboratory that the Co2 emissions of humans have raised the global temperature outside of natural variable levels.?
3. Shows any empirical evidence of any detrimental effects to life on earth in any form as in extinctions,(excluding damage to the Labor party or Julia Gillard) harm to coral reefs, drought, extreme weather events, solely as a result of human emissions of Co2.?

Please note the empirical evidence CeeBee. Likely, may , might, could, maybe, possible, shows, simulations, modeled, etc just do not cut it in the real world.

Please also note I am not asking the impossible here as according to you and others of worthier note the science is already settled, or was not so long ago so it should be an easy exercise to trot out numerous peer reviewed papers to support the above with empirical evidence as opposed to computer modeling.

There is a big difference between handwringing, henny penny cutting and pasting, ideologue posting and people who simply want to point out and discuss flaws in the dogma being flung at them twenty four seven on every platform available.

If certain individuals are not capable of discerning the fact that we have all been told that Co2 is responsible for a temperature increase that is not infact happening. That despite a rise in the level of Co2 while global temperature stagnates or actually falls and we are all being taxed. Who are the stupid people?


This in despite of the supposed ducks nuts of all the worlds scientists to back up the case for more taxes and controls, all funneled to the U.N. Every one of their predictions based upon a rise in global Co2 levels has failed and yet people who question such things are seen as radical and fringe dwellers.

Mind you the same types in support of AGW are out there protesting against big government and big bankers occupying wall street while cheering for controls that deliver literally billions into the same institutions they rail against, go figure.

But I digress, The mentality seems to be to score points by posting the latest weather extreme as an expression of evidence (Fail) A high temperature (Fail) The latest flood (Fail). You never see the latest record cold, blizzard,ice etc as a balance tho? That ain't climate it is weather.

Skeptics have not been caught out saying it is going to rain and snow like never before have they? Tho the mantra from the warmist's just few short years ago was never ending drought, no more snow and ever rising sea levels caused by ever increasing temperatures as a direct result of rising Co2 levels.

Meanwhile in the real world fractional reserve banking is rubbing it's hands at the prospect of carbon trading.

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#1115947 - 22/07/2012 08:01 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2640
Originally Posted By: bd bucketingdown
Funny you should mention that CB, now I have not seen any of this of late, but just saw this from a long ago post on this thread by accident...


http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/ruti/europe/western-europe-rural-temperature-trend.php


Irrelevant BD - A few European countries is not the Globe. Try again.
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#1115952 - 22/07/2012 08:32 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
snafu Offline
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Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Neither does a heat wave in the US. Try again.
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1115959 - 22/07/2012 09:34 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
Recent US heat irrelevent also...Touche, CB...shot yourself in the foot there mate!

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#1115965 - 22/07/2012 10:23 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2640
We're not discussing the U.S. right now.

The discussion was how skeptics make up stuff as shown by Anthony when he said:

"even with UHI, unadjusted temps show no temperature rise since 1895, and falling since the 1930s...all with UHI in full effect last 20 years."

Come on all you other skeptics here - do you also agree with what Anthony just claimed above?

If so then back him up with actual evidence that unadjusted temps show no temperature rise since 1895, and falling since the 1930s...all with UHI in full effect last 20 years.

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#1115972 - 22/07/2012 11:24 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
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Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
A very interesting post up on WUWT on Greenland albedo. A picture tells a thousand words:

[img]http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/06/melt-zone/balog-photography[/img]

Though I don't necessarily agree that the soot is from Asia, a simple experiment [ somebody gets a sample from the bottom of the moraine and analyses it] should tell the tale of exactly how old and from where it is. It may well be that thhe soot is of European origin but from the early last century and before. Detailed analysis may also shed some light on why the soot accumulates more at higher altitudes.

Interesting non the less - the story is way more complex than CO2 did it all...
Greenland Ice Sheet albedo dropps of then bottom of the chart
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1115975 - 22/07/2012 11:35 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
bd bucketingdown Offline
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Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
Convenient CB! Who knows what the temp trace is?!!!!There have been so many adjustements and alterations and changes from the originals, which I suspect have now been lost that no one knows what it is really, I'm afraid!

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#1115981 - 22/07/2012 12:02 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2640
Originally Posted By: Arnost
A very interesting post up on WUWT on Greenland albedo. A picture tells a thousand words:

[img]http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/06/melt-zone/balog-photography[/img]

Though I don't necessarily agree that the soot is from Asia, a simple experiment [ somebody gets a sample from the bottom of the moraine and analyses it] should tell the tale of exactly how old and from where it is. It may well be that thhe soot is of European origin but from the early last century and before. Detailed analysis may also shed some light on why the soot accumulates more at higher altitudes.

Interesting non the less - the story is way more complex than CO2 did it all...
Greenland Ice Sheet albedo dropps of then bottom of the chart


It's clearly soot from the rapid recent industrialisation of Asia - mostly China and India.

Think of all those coal fired power plants spewing soot into the atmosphere along with SO2 which acts to cool the planet.

Once all that soot and SO2 is cleaned up from emissions watch the temps spike upwards in response.
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#1115985 - 22/07/2012 12:19 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2640
.
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#1115988 - 22/07/2012 12:31 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
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Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Quote:
It's clearly soot from the rapid recent industrialisation of Asia - mostly China and India.


Clearly! No need for empirical analysis - the models obviously are undoubted.

Sorry for having an opinion. Must be good to know everything.


Edited by Arnost (22/07/2012 12:34)
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1115992 - 22/07/2012 12:52 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Lightning....Lee Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 02/03/2011
Posts: 328
Originally Posted By: CeeBee
Originally Posted By: Arnost
A very interesting post up on WUWT on Greenland albedo. A picture tells a thousand words:

[img]http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/06/melt-zone/balog-photography[/img]

Though I don't necessarily agree that the soot is from Asia, a simple experiment [ somebody gets a sample from the bottom of the moraine and analyses it] should tell the tale of exactly how old and from where it is. It may well be that thhe soot is of European origin but from the early last century and before. Detailed analysis may also shed some light on why the soot accumulates more at higher altitudes.

Interesting non the less - the story is way more complex than CO2 did it all...
Greenland Ice Sheet albedo dropps of then bottom of the chart


It's clearly soot from the rapid recent industrialisation of Asia - mostly China and India.

Think of all those coal fired power plants spewing soot into the atmosphere along with SO2 which acts to cool the planet.

Once all that soot and SO2 is cleaned up from emissions watch the temps spike upwards in response.



Did I miss something or was the article in fact pointing to increased icemelt due to soot landing on the ice decreasing it's albedo/insolation causing it to melt?

Which in turn would raise tempretures in the area?

And therefore cleaning up the soot from the emmission source would see a return of ice and therefore increase insolation---> lowering temps?

and there's something for you CB, look at the Geo record...how many times has the atmosphere decoupled from CO2 concentrations, insolation increase is a guarnteed way to achieve it, just paint everything white mate, you can start actually....

envisions CB like Forrest gump after Jenny leaves, just starts running(painting) everything white, he's painted his way across the country three times...

*rolls eyes*

It must be that I am either retarded or it's Sunday morning?

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#1116003 - 22/07/2012 14:25 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
If the soot is cleaned up the ice will re-freeze without impurities in it and due to much more albedo and the arctic will cool!
You got it wrong CB!


Edited by bd bucketingdown (22/07/2012 14:26)

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#1116004 - 22/07/2012 14:30 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5096
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Originally Posted By: Arnost
Quote:
It's clearly soot from the rapid recent industrialisation of Asia - mostly China and India.


Clearly! No need for empirical analysis - the models obviously are undoubted.

Sorry for having an opinion. Must be good to know everything.



Don't you know that is how warmistas work. They see one thing that looks like a linkk then state with absolute authority that it is fact and there is no possible way they can be wrong. Untill of course things start to go awry at which time they state with out any shame at all that is what they predicted all along.

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#1116006 - 22/07/2012 14:48 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: Brett Guy]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2640
Heh - even Anthony Watts says it's soot from Asia...

Quote:
the industrialization of the Asian continent is the biggest industrial soot producer on the planet. – Anthony


...and there's more at play here than just soot.


The cause of the low reflectivity involves a combination of multiple factors:

1 Abnormally intense melt at low elevations erases bright white snow, exposing a darker impurity rich bare ice surface. When the melt back of winter snow happens earlier, the anomaly grows.

2 in areas where snow remains, temperature-driven snow metamorphism reduces reflectivity by rounding the sharp ice crystal edges that scatter visible light (Wiscombe and Warren, 1980; Dozier et al., 1981; Warren, 1982). Fresh snow reflects ~84% of solar energy (Konzelmann and Ohmura, 1995).
. This fraction, called the albedo, decreases with increasing snow effective grain size;

3 Increased snow liquid water content in areas of enhanced melting increases absorption of visible light; and

4 potentially less summer snowfall as in year 2011. Summertime snow events take the edge off the amplifying feedback by brightening the surface. With climate warming, the ratio of snowfall to rainfall decreases. It actually does rain on the lower elevations of the ice sheet. I measured 5 cm rainfall in a single 24 h period in June 1998 at Swiss Camp located at 1,150 m elevation along the central western slope of the ice sheet.

5 atmospheric circulation that colleague Dr. Xavier Fetteweis at University of Liège, Belgium has been examining for Greenland and plans to post an analysis here.

6 The possibility of increased snow impurities like carbonaceous soot from wildfires or diesel exhaust can lower ice sheet reflectivity.

link

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#1116007 - 22/07/2012 14:57 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
so you were wrong CB, good to see you have "admitted it"...no, not really, but your post is exactly the opposite of what you said before, as I and others reminded and pointed out to you you...It would be nice if you acknowledged your mistakes sometimes! EG you said clean up soot and temps would rise and spike upwards...no, not true, they will go downwards actually!


Edited by bd bucketingdown (22/07/2012 14:59)

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#1116046 - 22/07/2012 20:26 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2640
Wrong Bd. I said clean up soot and SO2. Why did you ignore SO2?

This is probably the reason...

Global Warming Pause Linked to SO2 in China

WASHINGTON (AP) — Scientists have come up with a possible explanation for why the rise in Earth‘s temperature paused for a bit during the 2000s, one of the hottest decades on record.

The answer seems counterintuitive. It’s all that sulfur pollution in the air from China’s massive coal-burning, according to a new study.

Sulfur particles in the air deflect the sun’s rays and can temporarily cool things down a bit. That can happen even as coal-burning produces the carbon dioxide that contributes to global warming.

“People normally just focus on the warming effect of CO2 (carbon dioxide), but during the Chinese economic expansion there was a huge increase in sulfur emissions,” which have a cooling effect, explained Robert K. Kaufmann of Boston University. He’s the lead author of the study published Monday in Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.

But sulfur’s cooling effect is only temporary, while the carbon dioxide from coal burning stays in Earth’s atmosphere a long time.

Chinese coal consumption doubled between 2003 and 2007, and that caused a 26 percent increase in global coal consumption, Kaufmann said.

Now, Chinese leaders have recognized the effects of that pollution on their environment and their citizens’ health and are installing equipment to scrub out the sulfur particles, Kaufmann said.

Sulfur quickly drops out of the air if it is not replenished, while carbon dioxide remains for a long time, so its warming effects are beginning to be visible again, he noted. The plateau in temperature growth disappeared in 2009 and 2010, when temperatures lurched upward.

Indeed, NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, have listed 2010 as tied for the warmest year on record.
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#1116049 - 22/07/2012 20:41 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
You linked soot to your post, I am not talking about SO2, Soot melts ice. That is all I am discussing from your text.
You should make it clearer if you are reffering to one cooling and one warming.
Your quote from your post says this...
"Once all that soot and SO2 is cleaned up from emissions watch the temps spike upwards in response" (quote CB)
So you were wrong, or you should have worded it much clearer and better for it just sounds like soot and CO2 both when reduced will warm the planet, which is not true, only SO2 will do that!
Anyone reading that sentence would read it that way mate, you must agree with that!

Yes, adjusted and altered GISS says 2010 was, but sorry I don't believe GISS, as I said before, I really have trouble believing anything but the original records to see for myself.
Adjustments and alterations are subject to inbuilt bias and are misleading and are often not correct, if ever, toss them into the ocean and other give me and all the original records please please please, we are not silly we can work it out ourselves!!!! Just like I want to eat natural food as it is with little or no artificial additives, I want to see natural data as it is without artificial additives!!!!


Edited by bd bucketingdown (22/07/2012 20:48)

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#1116050 - 22/07/2012 20:53 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
To me this new habit of altering and adjusting temps and weather data, and tossing and losing the old data, is as bad for the planet as clearing & wrecking natural vegetation, and should be stopped for the good of science! It is a bad modern practice that is out of control!


Edited by bd bucketingdown (22/07/2012 20:54)

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#1116087 - 23/07/2012 10:59 Re: Interesting news articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
As I was saying...........

"Weekly Climate and Energy News Roundup

Brought to You by SEPP (www.SEPP.org) The Science and Environmental Policy Project

THIS WEEK:

By Ken Haapala, Executive Vice President, Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)

Challenging the Orthodoxy: Some of the biggest news this week comes from a number of new papers that challenge the procedures and findings of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). These challenges include the data and data manipulation used, and the divergence between model projections and observations.

Procedures: Meteorologists Joe D’Aleo and Anthony Watts, and others, have long challenged procedures used to correct errors in the 20th century data record including a statistical procedure called homogenization. These apply to the data reported by the Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN) and are used by the three entities that report surface temperature trends, NOAA, NASA-GISS, and the Climatic Research Unit (CRU). Researchers E. Steirou and D. Koutsoyiannis presented to the European Geosciences Union that they found in 67% of the stations examined the procedures used introduced a greater warming trend (or lessened a cooling trend). Using random chance, one would expect the percentage to be about 50%. Upon examination of the series, the raw data indicated an increase in global temperatures of 0.42 deg C while the adjusted data indicated an increase of 0.76 deg C. If this new research is replicated, it seriously affects the findings.

Steve McIntyre pointed out that the statistical procedures used by the GHCN were never discussed in a journal focused on statistics. As with the hockey-stick, which had statistical problems, climate scientists should seek independent review of their statistical procedures by those knowledgeable in statistics, and not colleagues in climate science. McIntyre, McKitrick, and later Wegman, who demonstrated the bias introduced by the procedure used in the hockey-stick were bitterly attacked by the climate science community for doing so. It remains to be seen how this insular community will respond to this new research. The research demonstrates the hollowness of claims that only climate scientists are fit to analyze climate data. Please see links under Challenging the Orthodoxy.

Models: Roger Pielke Sr, and others, posted a number of new papers that show a significant divergence between projections from models and actual observation, including for temperatures, sea surface temperatures, precipitation, and water vapor. These divergences illustrate the foolhardiness of using climate models to predict future weather (climate) conditions on any scale, be it local, regional, or global.

One of the new papers focuses on how human alteration of the land surface can raise recorded minimum temperatures. This is particularly important, because the main influence of increased greenhouse gases, such as atmospheric carbon dioxide, is not an increase on the daytime highs but an increase in the nighttime lows. This was shown by John Christy, et al. for the San Joaquin valley in California which underwent urbanization and irrigation (increases in the primary greenhouse gas, water vapor), and, as Ross McKitrick has pointed out, these socio-economic factors are ignored by the IPCC. Please see links under Challenging the Orthodoxy and Models v. Observations.

It should be noted that these new papers, as well as others such as the one showing a 2,000 year general cooling trend with significant variation, do not disprove the hypothesis that human emissions of CO2 are causing global warming. But, they show that climate science, as practiced by the IPCC, is inadequate and that the models used fail to account for major natural influences, and have no predictive skill."
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/22/weekly-climate-and-energy-news-roundup-56/#more-67927

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