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#1149343 - 14/12/2012 13:25 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 9673
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Originally Posted By: Cheers
What I can't understand is that why would anyone have anything to do with the Catholic church when it's full of these type of low lives.
And they hide them as well.
It must be brain washing because I can't work it out.


Cheers and others.

Not every member of the Catholic Church has done these horrible things. The vast majority of priests/nuns etc have only ever tried to do good and to try and teach messages of care for our fellow humans.

SOME have done things that we all hate. It does not mean they are ALL bad.

At it's core, the church(es) are about trying to help the world around them and to try and help us all be kind to those around us.

I have seen many of the good things the churches do, the people they help, the programmes to help those much worse off than most of us.

I have seen the majority of priests and nuns horrified at the things that have happened. Please do not assume they are all bad, that is completely wrong.

Anyone in the church(es) with a conscience knows that these things are horrible, but please don't shoot the innocent with the bad.

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#1149370 - 14/12/2012 14:31 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: DaveM]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Too true Dave, many good people have been let down by their bosses and the associated behaviour in their not protecting kids.
So people can understand some of this that has occurred ...I'll make it simple ....only one item but a key one.
Every professional organisation or group has to have a Professional Standards Committee (usually made up of a mix of disinterested professionals) who oversee their behaviour and outcomes and write a report each year on how they are going, doctors/nurses/shrinks/dentists/counsellors/etc
...which is published for all to see.

anyway, a Patrick Parkinson who was doing this for the church ..he was actually writing a review for the church over many years, found a 'perversions of justice' (his words) and plenty of etc 's.
The reports are all pretty well up now on the Vic Inquirys website ...these I am told will carry over to the Royal Commission
http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/fcdc/inquiries/article/1789
Patrick Parkinsons submission is but a short read ...some emails etc in there. ........the Vic police sunbmissions are an eye opener also.
Patrick Parkinsons submission<=LINK
Patrick Parkinsons submissionREVIEW<=LINK

You are quite correct Dave ...many good people being hurt ....but needs to be done....anyone doubting need only listen to Michelle Mulvihill
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/prog...rothers/3240858
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3651319.htm
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1149380 - 14/12/2012 14:48 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Arnoldnut]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 9673
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Nobody with a true conscience can deny that justice must be served.

All I am saying to people is that it is a MINORITY of people who have done these horrid things.

I know quite a number of wonderful priests and nuns who are completely horrified by it as well. The sad thing is that many of these wonderful caring and peaceful people are being taunted and sneered at when they are NOT involved and never have been.

I know in my local church that these things are spoken of and against many times a year. The church as a whole finds these deeds/actions abhorrent.

Sadly things were not dealt with well enough (sometimes with the perhaps MISGUIDED thought of saving embarrassment to all concerned - including the victims)

I ask though, please remember that the church(es) have many wonderful, loving and caring people who only want to help their fellow man. Don't tar them all with the same brush.

By all means we must help the victims any way we can and offenders must be identified and stopped. It is a shameful episode perpetrated by a few but it is also doing great damage to those who are only guilty of trying to live life helping the world around them.

We need to target the wrongdoers not those who have done no wrong.

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#1149555 - 15/12/2012 07:53 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: DaveM]
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10341
Loc: Blue Mountains
Originally Posted By: DaveM
Originally Posted By: Cheers
What I can't understand is that why would anyone have anything to do with the Catholic church when it's full of these type of low lives.
And they hide them as well.
It must be brain washing because I can't work it out.


Cheers and others.

Not every member of the Catholic Church has done these horrible things. The vast majority of priests/nuns etc have only ever tried to do good and to try and teach messages of care for our fellow humans.

SOME have done things that we all hate. It does not mean they are ALL bad.

At it's core, the church(es) are about trying to help the world around them and to try and help us all be kind to those around us.

I have seen many of the good things the churches do, the people they help, the programmes to help those much worse off than most of us.

I have seen the majority of priests and nuns horrified at the things that have happened. Please do not assume they are all bad, that is completely wrong.

Anyone in the church(es) with a conscience knows that these things are horrible, but please don't shoot the innocent with the bad.


Yes, very true. My wife is catholic and you couldn't find a more funny, kind, compassionate person on this earth. Some of my mates (I'm not catholic) from her church are just the most decent, helpful people you would meet. Tragically, many thousands of children are abused in this country every day by atheists, agnostics and theists alike.

My life experience has led me to be involved in helping abused kids and whilst painful to see the suffering, its very rewarding to help them.

Every day across Australia, there are thousands of child sexual and physical abuse cases in your local street but they get less news attention than the church events.

The real issue here is protecting our children from predators, in whatever environment that occurs.

Child abuse is child abuse and of course those in the Catholic and Protestant churches have to pay for their evil acts. So do the many thousands of households in this country where child sexual and physical abuse is going on at this very moment.

Lets do our bit and get involved where we can to help prevent this terrible evil against the wonderful children of this country. If you suspect something is going on, carefully consider the option of reporting it. Never turn a blind eye, that child needs you.

I can assure you, many childrens lives are literally saved by responsible adults reporting abuse.

Keep an eye on my Twitter account, I plan to do another fundraiser next year. smile
_________________________
BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#1149612 - 15/12/2012 12:57 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Blizzard]
Cheers Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 26/05/2007
Posts: 1093
Loc: sevenhills nsw
My wife was brought up a Catholic but is non practising.
I have many,many friends that are the same,Practising but most non practising.They are good people.
I was brought up as an SDA but not only am I non practising I also don,t believe in fairy stories.
Religion is a form of brain washing & the raming of their unjust rules,fairy stories etc is a form of child abuse in it's self.
As a child you don't know any better.
You will go to Hell if you don't believe this or abide by these rules,etc.
Nearly all religions seem to have God on their side.
Some are evil,some are not.
The Catholic Church has alot to answer for & that doesn't just include the child abuse.
Contraception is one of them.
If anyone goes on about God this or God that to me then I quickly let them know where I stand.
If they keep going on then I give them a mouth full.
You don't need Religion with all their rules,etc to be a good person.


Edited by Cheers (15/12/2012 12:58)

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#1149783 - 16/12/2012 07:58 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Royal Commission is about the culture of hiding these paeds ..not the paeds themselves....
here is one opinion....be it a bit clinical. wink
There have been a couple of Royal Commissions here that have been duds. But on the whole, they have been very successful in dealing with things like corruption in police forces, and in setting up institutions to deal with such things.
I don't think the history of Royal Commissions here gives us reason to be pessimistic. Sure, many of their recommendations have not been adopted by governments for various political reasons, and to that extent some have not been very effective, but even there they have been effective in revealing the rotten state of things, and often in changing a culture.
And I think we have to recognize the extent to which the secular State has forced the Church to change its ways. The Australian bishops had been talking about doing something about clerical sex abuse from about 1988, but it took a police raid on a bishop's presbytery in 1994 when he followed the instructions of Crimen Sollicitationis in refusing to hand over his files to the police, to make them act. Out of this came Towards Healing which at least, on paper, required reporting.
It took threatened legal action against Cardinal Murphy O'Connor for misprision of felony in 2001 for the British bishops to get Lord Nolan to prepare his report and to get a concession from the Vatican to allow reporting. And all hell was breaking loose in the United States over cover ups that led to the Dallas Conference and the Vatican concession there in 2002.
And then in Ireland, you had the extraordinary attack on the Vatican by the Catholic Prime Minister of Ireland, and the severing of diplomatic relations with that most Catholic of countries, all because of the Murphy and Ryan Commissions.
Finally, in 2010, Benedict abandons the cover up policy, and again, at least on paper, requires bishops to cooperate with the civil authorities - which in most countries means mandatory reporting of sex crimes by anyone, not just clergy.
The interesting thing about Australia is that despite its being given an exemption from the secrecy provisions of both Crimen and Sanctitatis, the cover up seems to have continued. I have little doubt that this occurred because in 2002 you had the extraordinary situation of the highest Vatican Cardinals still saying publicly, that it is not the bishops role to dob in criminal priests to the police - despite exemptions given to places like Australia to do so.
The career paths of priests and bishops in a monarchy rely on the patronage of the Pope, as much as it did with Louis XIV and his nobles. You can see this in the separate Melbourne Response which did not require reporting, because in the State of Victoria, misprision of felony had been abolished and not replaced with something like S.316 of the NSW Crimes Act. The end result was that there was no obligation to report. On the other hand, all the other Australian bishops (even those in Victoria outside the Melbourne Archdiocese) wanted mandatory reporting. There is little doubt that the Melbourne Response was more in accordance with Vatican policy, and one more likely to have kept the Curia happy.
Now the chickens look like coming home to roost. One can only hope that the interference of the Vatican in Australian affairs will come out in this Royal Commission as effectively as it did with the Irish Commissions.
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1149788 - 16/12/2012 08:22 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Arnoldnut]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
in my own case I was attempting to expose paeds that were still operating in Samoa ...the stories is well documented here in the treads of WZone that goes back to 2002 (some on the old forum)

Fr.Chris Riley of sydneys YOTS has even assisted me and has provided witness to my own case for the Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry ....all evidence will go over to the Royal Comm.

If anyone wants to give a donation to anyone at all ....you couldn't get better than YOTS
http://www.youthoffthestreets.com.au/

Chris Riley ran a broom thhru thhe original group when he took over many years ago ....Fr EvansSDB was the last one he nailed before breakin right away and setting up YOTS.

I myself was a street kid for many years after running from a catholic boarding school ...hopefully the amount of runaway kids on our streets will be reduced as this Royal Commission removes one of the most persistant suppliers/causes of these street kids.
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1158140 - 13/01/2013 10:35 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Arnoldnut]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic


"It is alleged that from 1960 to 1990, when Rupertswood was a Catholic boarding and day school, Salesian brothers, including two former school principals and a boarding master, routinely abused boys in their care."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/the-hell-house-20130112-2cmia.html#ixzz2Ho2D35mK

I spoke on ABC's Four Corners last year about the hiding of paedophile priests as recent as 2000 & 2004
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/06/28/3535079.htm
And now it is a criminal investigation ...I have yet to speak with the Parliamentary Hearing whichh is coming to Bendigo shortly.
Professor of Law Patrick Parkinson, who also spoke on 4Crns, has already given his submission about the Salesians.
http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/fcdc/inquiries/article/1789

Here's a piece of a vid of myself attempting to explain the complexities to ABC's Four Corners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s5HhMAcD3c&list=ULDvwiwfpreN4

This ain't over yet wink


Edited by Arnoldnut (13/01/2013 10:37)
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1158203 - 13/01/2013 14:36 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Arnoldnut]
Cheers Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 26/05/2007
Posts: 1093
Loc: sevenhills nsw
Hmmm,Pell has been very silent recently.

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#1172890 - 17/02/2013 10:13 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Early this coming month I am giving evidence before the Inquiry and chosen to do it 'public' (not incamera private) ....I'll be opening with a quick run through the weatherzone thread
Canon Law Vs Australian Law http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthreads.php/topics/189805/1
Sydney Uni Legal Professor Patrick Parkinson has already delivered a damning report based on my case in 2000.

This is about the churches Canon Law being used in australia (all over the world) to protect paedophile priests and their heirarchs using this circumstance to conceal and move them about.

Mea Maxima Culpa - Silence In The House Of God' is a movie just screened in USA and coming here in March
(SirBT will recognise one of our SNAP leaders in this movie)
http://viooz.eu/movies/15909-mea-maxima-culpa-silence-in-the-house-of-god-2012.html

I think Vicvtorians can be proud that their goverance was the first in the world to take these guys to task ...which has led to the Royal Commission .....the Vic Inquiry has been extended another 5 mths as the weight of people wishing to give witness has snowballed.

the world looks on as little state of Victoria makes history ....followed closely by the Aus Royal Commission.

and why bother? some may ask.
Right at this moment I can point at a known paedophile priest who is close to children in his capacity as 'assistant' with LandCare
he'd be happy LandCares focus is to get kids involved this coming year ...fresh meat supplied hey?

that guy can't be touched (yet!) and he has been through a Canon Law court case where the church payed off his victims and moved him to where he is now ...working in the community.
He is but one .....he is but one too many in my book !!!!!


and it ain't just me .....I tripped over this Canon Law after a tip off from someone who sent me a copy of the Crimen Solit.???.. can't spell...back in 2002
But you will see now that every legal eagle is spouting this Canon Law /Crimen ...It will be the centrepoint of the finding ...just watch ;-)

I do this for my fellow abused students who didn't make it ...so many have taken their own lives over this.


Edited by Arnoldnut (17/02/2013 10:22)
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1173074 - 17/02/2013 20:48 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Arnoldnut]
GDL Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 17/02/2008
Posts: 630
Loc: Bowen Mountain NSW
Its good to see you are well and full of fight Arnold,if its good men that do speak up then you are one of the best.Take it to them for yourself and those fellow students who cant speakfor them selves,shine the light on these mongrels. ......GDL

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#1173518 - 19/02/2013 08:45 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: GDL]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
I'm just the same as any aussie ....I don't take being bullshitted to ....very well is all.

This was my business and racing team before I started this fight 13 years ago
http://www.pedders.com.au/news/1/0/pedders-racing-gives-toyota-86-a-racing-debut
(the guy who wrote that was obviously on coke)
http://www.drivermagazine.com.au/news/2012-pedders-bendigo-motor-sports-display.html

I'd taken this to everyone from the attorney general thru forgeign affairs and even to the governor generals good offices.
I had audiences with all and all said zero can be done.

Bullshit I said ;-) .....have to be honest and say I gave up for a while ...but a few of us got together and got Ann Barker MLA to fly to Ireland and speak with the attorney general there.
Vic inquiry doesn't have the teeth the Royal Commission has .....the latter can investigate senior police and senior policians involvement.

australia is the first to actually investigate at a govt level ..have to be proud of Aus for standing up against them ...biggest corporation in the world.
I gave up a magic lifestyle to get this done for grandkids sake ....nothing in it for me as my abusers dead and long gone but is well documented and so a centrepoint.
I'm just one of thousands ...and I try to speak for all ...please take an hour or so out of your own lives and have a look at this movie and what some suffered at the hands of these guys and their laws that keep this hidden.
Is said to be a big part of the reasoning behind the Popes resignation.
http://viooz.eu/movies/15909-mea-maxima-culpa-silence-in-the-house-of-god-2012.html
Will be on Australias SBS in March







Edited by Arnoldnut (19/02/2013 08:50)
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1173523 - 19/02/2013 09:03 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Arnoldnut]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
feel I need explain ....in the middle of this journey a senior legal bloke investigated my case and found a perversion of justice and took it straight to the victorian attorney general.
he is Patrick Parkinson (heaps of letters) .......and his submission is here (is one of the tags)
http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/healing-be-damned/556/
and Pat's submission specific to my case
http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/...ndicies_1-5.pdf
he even has the famous pic I posted here on the zone back in 2006
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/Michael_Scull/GeoffreyRobertsonInTheNews/0619klepcandy.jpg
thanks for listening guys.
rainy day here so nothings going to upset me today .....haven't seen rain here in yonks. So might go play in it poke


Edited by Arnoldnut (19/02/2013 09:12)
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1175824 - 24/02/2013 19:05 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14154
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
...


Edited by Seabreeze (24/02/2013 19:32)
Edit Reason: Inappropriate image for the topic removed.
_________________________
202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 694mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#1176959 - 26/02/2013 10:35 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Churches protected by trust laws

Victoria leads the world in taking these guys to task ....followed closely by the Royal Commission.
my hearings early next mth ....have a listen to the vid as it explains how the catholic church has made itself Unsueable and so untouchable.
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1183558 - 15/03/2013 07:52 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
gave witness at the Victorian Parliament Hearings yesterday ....and a meeting with Taskforce Sano bosses and found everyone is on the same page as myself.
Lack of State Laws of misprision is the problem ...removed from our statutes by Law Reform in the 50/60s ....Now the interest is what droive those reforms .....and who.

Was an interesting day ...afraid I can say little as most would understand.
leave you a tune to consider ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyl5DlrsU90
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1191276 - 26/04/2013 13:15 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Salesian priest Julian Fox has returned from the vatican and appeared in melb magistrates court this morn and the case has been arraigned until July.
Many have been trying to get this guy back for many years ...the Salsians order themselves has to appear before the Vic Parliaments Child Abuse Inquiry on monday also.
some snaps I took ...his fault they are fuzzy. he wouldn't stay still for me. frown

Fr. Julian Fox SDB outside the Melbourne magistrates court this morn


From the amount of media present I believe it will be well covered in this evening news.
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1191390 - 27/04/2013 06:34 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Salesian Catholic priest returns from Vatican
to face court on child sexual abuse charges

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-26/sa...348?section=vic

the salesian bosses will be ask by the Victoria Parliamentary Inquiry on Monday to explain their moving of paedophile priests overseas to avoid prosecution here in aus.

I'd guess the Royal Commission will be next for the Salesians to explain themselves.



Edited by Arnoldnut (27/04/2013 06:39)
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1191428 - 27/04/2013 10:35 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14154
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Probably be quite a bit of tap dancing will be performed by them in court I would guess.

I still have the plans for my stocks and could quite easily scale them up to hold multiples of those deem fit to use them Arnoldnut. Hmm maybe make them in a closed circle and work on a mechanism to rotate them.

Keep up the good work mate.
_________________________
202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 694mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#1193326 - 10/05/2013 12:00 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1549
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
SBT, it may also be a good time to corner the market in millstones. poke

check out what Des has to say in the last half.
Cops and Catholicism: the cultural connection between police and the church

Keep in mind some of my own testimony and also the fact the Vic Inquirys guidelines don't encompass the police or govt dept etc.
the plot thickens.
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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