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#1147090 - 03/12/2012 13:11 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Steve777]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 9744
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Sunny and warm in Bathurst. Don't know why you coasties get so suprised it's cloudy down there so often. smile

Look at Sydney stats vs Hobart for example - Hobart has way more sunshine hours in Summer than Sydney, Sydney is one of the wettest capitals by far as well. smile

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#1147091 - 03/12/2012 13:13 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Steve777]
Tom1234 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1709
Loc: Port Stephens
Originally Posted By: Steve777
This is cool moist air trapped under a layer of warm dry air, e.g. Mount Boyce is 19.5 in a NW airstream, equivalent to about 26-29 at sea level. There is no strong Southerly airstream, in fact winds seem to be light and all over the place, so there's nothing to shift this damp, soggy air mass.



It's very similar to northern Californian weather, warm uppers and cool maritime influence at the surface. Was a fog/drizzle here this morning and if you find some altitude it would still be like that now, pretty dreary but not unusual for the east coast.


Originally Posted By: DaveM
Sunny and warm in Bathurst. Don't know why you coasties get so suprised it's cloudy down there so often. smile

Look at Sydney stats vs Hobart for example - Hobart has way more sunshine hours in Summer than Sydney, Sydney is one of the wettest capitals by far as well. smile


I don't get it either. people need to accept that summer on east coast is generally cloudy and humid. The stories people here or tell about the old days being hot everyday are false, it's just selective memory.

I remember most summer school holidays i used to go mountain bike riding in the rain, if i only went on sunny days i wouldn't have ridden much smile
Was good fun, but the parents hated the extra washing grin


Edited by Enrique (03/12/2012 13:20)

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#1147102 - 03/12/2012 13:29 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: DaveM]
Steve777 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 20/10/2011
Posts: 3505
Loc: Artarmon (Sydney North Shore)
Sydney, with 1220 mm of rainfall per annum is actually one of the wetter major cities in the world outside the tropics, not just in Australia. I don't get surprised when its cloudy and damp here, especially in Summer. With prevailing winds from the Eastern half, it's bound to be fairly cloudy and wet. When people say 'where's summer'? on a day like to day, I say that this is perfectly normal for this time of year. It's funny, even among people who have lived here all their lives, there seems to be a cultural expectation that it should be sunny and dry in Summer otherwise they feel ripped off.

[begin whinge] But yes, I don't like this weather. I'd prefer it if the cloud built piled up high and gave us storms rather than spreading out horizontally and giving us this miserable grey drizzle. [end whinge]

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#1147104 - 03/12/2012 13:31 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: HumphreyBear]
davidm Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/08/2011
Posts: 1553
Loc: Orange, NSW
Originally Posted By: Southerly_Buster
Originally Posted By: davidm
Another day hemmed in by thick fog here - a couple of dry days would be welcomed with open arms, hopefully not for too long though.

I'd get used to it- being close to 100 m ASL and right on the coast tends to lend itself to "June (December) Gloom". Will have to visit that Captain Cook Lookout near your place some time.

Well done for getting your weather station set up- but I noticed you recorded 34 deg on Saturday. This might be a bit too high unless the seabreeze was extremely shallow? Temps here 10 km inland were roughly 36C whilst Obs Hill struggled to get above 30 most of the day. Dover Heights AWS didn't get above 25 iirc- that's a very similar location to yours.


Interesting how different the fog and low cloud felt when I was surrounded by Randwick's hills, but I certainly recall many days with bugger all visibility. The station's in a bit of a dodgy location until I get some proper mounting equipment delivered, the 34 was a bit high compared to surrounding areas, Terrigal only reached just over 31.1 but the station seems to flatline around that point so it may have gone offline for a bit. At the time my station showed 34, the Wamberal station was reading 36.6, so while it might not be accurate it is plausible. smile

Interesting to note that Norah Head received 24.4 while Gosford got up to 35.4 on that day (1/12).
_________________________
Wunderground | davidm.com.au

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#1147105 - 03/12/2012 13:31 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: DaveM]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
Originally Posted By: DaveM

Look at Sydney stats vs Hobart for example - Hobart has way more sunshine hours in Summer than Sydney, Sydney is one of the wettest capitals by far as well. smile

Yes, but in the 'burbs it's significantly drier and sunnier year round. Even at my location, we struggle to get above 1000 mm most years, and it's probably one of the sunnier spots in the Basin. My summer climate is probably closer to Melbourne with about 30 days above 30C year round. A lot more variation here like Melbourne too- can be cooler than Obs Hill some days and as warm as Penrith on others. Humidity and overnight temps are of course higher- I'm talking about the general rhythms of weather here.

Hobart may only get half coastal Sydney's rainfall but it has a higher number of rain days and much less evaporation on account of the higher latitude, which is why it is drought proof most of the time.

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#1147107 - 03/12/2012 13:39 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Steve777]
chapo Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 10/02/2012
Posts: 302
Loc: Campbelltown
without the 79% humidity it would feel rather chilly here in Campbelltown today

in relation to storm activity Campbelltown seems to dodge all the storms, they either break up or take left hand turns and head towards Penrith

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#1147110 - 03/12/2012 13:48 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: chapo]
Steve777 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 20/10/2011
Posts: 3505
Loc: Artarmon (Sydney North Shore)
Of course, Sydney Summers haven't changed since some mythical 'good old days'. The statistics bear that out. I remember some pretty woeful summers in the 60's and 70's, and the summers of 87/88, 88/89 and 89/90 were pretty much washed out. This time last year we were making comparisons with the 'cold' December of 1960 and the 'cold' Summer of 1952/53. Of course, when we were kids we just enjoyed the holidays and didn't worry too much about the weather.

A Sydney summer is as it always has been mainly a mixture of mild, sunny days with seabreezes and showery, overcast days with cool S-SE'ers, with a few hot days, a few storms and a few wet spells thrown in for good measure. In different years we get different proportions of each type of weather.

P.S. brightening up now in the last 20 minutes or so.


Edited by Steve777 (03/12/2012 13:48)

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#1147114 - 03/12/2012 14:04 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Steve777]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
Sydney is at the milder end of the humid subtropical climate classification (warm wet and humid summer, mild sunny winter). It's the southerlies that make our summers a little cooler and more temperate than similar climates in the NH at a similar latitude. Since there's no landmass between here and Antarctica, polar fronts and associated troughs have free passage year round. With a landmass, they'd die well before our latitude, giving us hotter summers similar to Brisbane. The tradeoff is no real winter with the chance of snow such as at Atlanta and even Buenos Aires (both of these also have hotter summers).

To put your 2nd paragraph more formally Steve- summer is a battleground between hot continental (NW'ly), humid tropical maritime (NE'ly) and milder southern maritime (SE'ly) airmasses. Which of these dominates proceedings varies according to ENSO, IOD, SAM, voodoo, whatever else you can think of wink

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#1147115 - 03/12/2012 14:07 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Steve777]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 9744
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
I cheated a bit because (as I know very well) the sunup and sundown times of Hobart give Hobart noticeably longer days in Summer as well. Just trying to make a point though that looking at Sydney's stats quickly shows most people up for "selective" memory as mentioned above. I suspect we are all somewhat prone to that issue from time to time (myself definitely included). smile

The east coastline is relatively one of the cloudiest/wettest parts of Oz. Yes it can be very hot at times but the many days of heat people remember are I think often a memory of specific events not the day to day weather.

Hobart and nearby actually can dry out quite badly, yes the reduced evap rates help a lot BUT most tourists are absolutely shocked to see browned off grasses etc in summer down there, on the eastern half of the state (lowlands areas) that is the norm in summer. Not green.

With any luck tonight we might almost slip just under 10 degrees - yes please. smile

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#1147143 - 03/12/2012 15:26 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: DaveM]
CoastalStorm22 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/07/2006
Posts: 2679
Loc: Lane Cove, Sydney, NSW
If Brisbane does in fact reach its expected max tomorrow, that will mean this heat event will have produced at least one hot day in every city except Sydney. I find it quite amusing that there's a article in today Telegraph stating that it was 36c on Bondi Beach at 4pm on Saturday, when in fact it would have been struggling to get much above 24c/25c with a strong NE breeze. Do these journalists not fact check before writing these articles?

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#1147146 - 03/12/2012 15:34 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: CoastalStorm22]
Steve777 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 20/10/2011
Posts: 3505
Loc: Artarmon (Sydney North Shore)
I'd suggest that the 'journalist' who wrote the story simply used Saturday's forecast maximum for Sydney. As they say, is it true or was it in the Daily Telegraph?

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#1147148 - 03/12/2012 15:38 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Steve777]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
The morning models did not support 39C for Brisbane city tomorrow (more like mid 30s), we'll see what 00z and tonight's EC bring. In any case, anything close to 40C in Brisbane city is very rare indeed, possible at Ipswich but very rare closer to the coast. Brisbane is a true subtropical climate with little in the way of heat extremes.

As for the Telegraph article, well, what else to expect:


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#1147149 - 03/12/2012 15:40 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Steve777]
Homer Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/06/2007
Posts: 5189
Loc: Dural
So, besides "Media Watch", who holds these people accountable for such misleading information?
The Telegraph had to say something alarming though as they were pumping the oncoming heatwave up for the three days prior.
Bunch of numbnuts that lot.

Homer

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#1147152 - 03/12/2012 15:46 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Homer]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
Do not read the Telegraph but I notice there were some (true) alarmist articles floating around when I looked this morning. Maybe I went a little overboard with my progs earlier last week, for that I apologise. I hope the Telegraph weren't looking in here and misinterpreting the posts. Will have to be very careful when discussing these events in future.

Maybe CMK does have a point after all.

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#1147156 - 03/12/2012 15:53 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: HumphreyBear]
Homer Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/06/2007
Posts: 5189
Loc: Dural
Originally Posted By: Southerly_Buster
Do not read the Telegraph but I notice there were some (true) alarmist articles floating around when I looked this morning. Maybe I went a little overboard with my progs earlier last week, for that I apologise. I hope the Telegraph weren't looking in here and misinterpreting the posts. Will have to be very careful when discussing these events in future.

Maybe CMK does have a point after all.


That's very magnaminous of you Buster Boy.
I post a fair bit on another forum associated with the sporting world. It's amazing how much gets said in there and then ends up as a story in the Terrorgraph a day or two later.
I find it amusing that they can actually use a web forum as a source of information.

Homer

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#1147160 - 03/12/2012 15:58 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Homer]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
Originally Posted By: Homer

I find it amusing that they can actually use a web forum as a source of information.

Yes they can, and evidently do. Journos have to churn out so many articles a day to earn their keep- research can often fall by the wayside as a result.

Doesn't mean we should stifle discussion but I think I'll stay away from the explicit references (such as model output) in future.

EDIT: Just to add to this, here is my initial post in the other thread:

Quote:
In addition, we have some serious heat starting to appear on the models for Friday and Saturday. 00z GFS has 850 mb temps up to a staggering 29C on Friday in Western NSW. The coast may be spared the worst of it as seabreezes are predicted each day. I expect a few records will go if this sort of heat eventuates.

Others may have a different view- the POSSIBILITY of extreme heat is mentioned, but a caveat is mentioned (seabreezes). Records did in fact fall in Victoria.


Edited by Southerly_Buster (03/12/2012 16:03)

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#1147161 - 03/12/2012 16:02 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: HumphreyBear]
Homer Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/06/2007
Posts: 5189
Loc: Dural
Originally Posted By: Southerly_Buster
Originally Posted By: Homer

I find it amusing that they can actually use a web forum as a source of information.

Yes they can, and evidently do. Journos have to churn out so many articles a day to earn their keep- research can often fall by the wayside as a result.

Doesn't mean we should stifle discussion but I think I'll stay away from the explicit references (such as model output) in future.



Mate, I wouldn't shy away from anything you do here atm.
You're a valuable source of information in all things weather ...............and music. lol.
Looks like Richmond fell about 5 deg's short again today - that's 4 times in the past week. The BOM are on fire.
I saw a little bit of sun this afternoon and maxed out at 22.8.
It's clouded over again now and thickening as the afternoon wears on. Wouldn't be surprised if a bit more drizzle redevelops this evening or overnight, although I expect it to clear more quickly tomorrow.

Homer.

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#1147162 - 03/12/2012 16:06 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Homer]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
Yes the BOM aren't totally blameless either- they had 40C forecast for Penrith well in advance (and 42C on the day) which as we all know did not occur, though I thought it would get there too. However, I do not think I even mentioned the word "heatwave", just a hot couple of days.


Edited by Southerly_Buster (03/12/2012 16:07)

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#1147170 - 03/12/2012 16:19 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Homer]
Tom1234 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1709
Loc: Port Stephens
Who cares if journo's view these forums and write up dodgy articles ? Keep posting what you think SB, makes the forums more exciting.

I'm also about 10km inland and can easily average 29-30c these days in January, but I still average around 1200mm rainfall. Most of the difference between what you get SB is most likely due the southerly exposure of the Port Stephens region. Any half decent rain event out of the south and I usually score heaps of rain, but also a lot dreary scud days too.

All in all even with the dreary days, summer is still pretty warm on the east coast and we get mild winters and fantastic early spring and late autumn weather.

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#1147174 - 03/12/2012 16:27 Re: NSW/ACT day to day weather [Re: Tom1234]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
Also the further up the coast you go in NSW, the more rain you receive (generally speaking). You're above 33S whereas I'm smack bang on 34S- more than a degree's difference is significant for temps and rainfall. The geographic features of the Port Stephens peninsula play a part as you say for rainfall but also for temperature- a NE wind at Williamtown has to pass over a significant stretch of land which is why it records hotter temperatures than expected for a location about 5 km from the coastline. Southerly winds come straight off the water so it's relatively cooler.

I'd estimate average summer maxima here are similar (maybe a smidgeon cooler) than those observed at Canterbury AWS, because I benefit from seabreeze funneling on some days. Oh for a reliable AWS near me. The figure at Canterbury is close to 28C but has a warm bias since it's only been recording since 1995.

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