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#1172559 - 16/02/2013 00:36 Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate
subhumn Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 19/11/2012
Posts: 28
Loc: Sydney, Australia
The ENMOD treaty is specifically intended to prevent use of the environment as a means of warfare by prohibiting the deliberate manipulation of natural processes in order to protect the environment because these modifications could produce phenomena such as hurricanes, tidal waves or changes in climate. Unfortunately environmental modification can be used outside of conflict without any knowledge its occurrence.

Convention on the Prohibition of Military or any other Hostile Use of Environmental Techniques – United Nations Treaty (Signed in Geneva May 18, 1977)
http://weatherwarfare.worldatwar.info/docs/treaty.pdf

The treaty created a list of phenomena that could result from the use of environmental modification techniques (this list is sourced from the United Nations Treaty above):

“earthquakes and tsunamis; an upset in the ecological balance of a region; changes in weather patterns (clouds, precipitation, cyclones and tornadic storms); changes in climate patterns; changes in ozone currents; changes in the state of the ozone layer and changes in the state of the ionosphere.”

I have found a document which was written by NASA. The document is labeled “The Importance of Understanding Clouds” (National Aeronautics and Space Administration).
http://weatherwarfare.worldatwar.info/docs/understandingclouds.pdf

The document explains that clouds regulate the planets average temperature and help to spread the suns energy evenly over the earths surface. The article also quotes:

“Even small changes in the abundance or location of clouds could change the climate more than the anticipated changes caused by greenhouse gases, human-produced aerosols, or other factors associated with global change.“

Environmental modification has a great deal more of an effect on climate than carbon. The scientific community has not acknowledged the existence of another defining argument for climate change, weather and environmental modification. The reason for this is that governments hide the existence and developments of their weather modification programs and the media is reluctant to publish anything relating to this topic. Have you ever seen a front page story in your national newspaper on weather modification and its effect on climate? Have you ever seen a prime time segment on any world news network on weather modification and its effect on climate?

It is unfortunate that the ENMOD treaty prohibits only the “use” and not the “research” into environmental modification techniques. Since ENMOD it is evident that environmental modification has been researched and at very least tested. To what degree has our climate been effected since ENMOD?

The treaty also aims to prohibit the use of any prohibited techniques within a States territory (sourced from the United Nations Treaty):

“In particular, each State should enact criminal legislation to outlaw and repress the use of prohibited techniques within its territory and anywhere else under its jurisdiction or control.”

The territorial prohibitions are not being adhered to. In the United States there are a number of civilian run weather modification programs and associations which continue to operate, for example “Weather Modification, Inc.” and the “Weather Modification Association”. While in China the “Beijing Weather Modification Office” runs as a unit of the Beijing Meteorological Bureau. The Beijing Weather Modification Office form a part of China’s nationwide weather control effort, believed to be the world’s largest and it employs 37,000 people nationwide. If the ENMOD treaty created a list of phenomena that could result from the use of environmental modification techniques, why are these programs, associations and nationwide weather control efforts continuing to operate?

The treaty also states:

“Any State with reason to believe that any other State is violating the Convention may lodge a complaint with the Security Council of the United Nations, on the basis of which the Security Council may conduct an inquiry.”

Is anyone going to lodge a complaint? If a State was to lodge a complaint, would the Security Council make an inquiry? (Note the wording of the treaty “the Security Council “may” conduct an inquiry”).

This treaty was enacted in 1976. Since then, what progress has ENMOD made?

Is the United Nations and ENMOD doing the job they are required to do? I think not.

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#1172561 - 16/02/2013 00:41 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: subhumn]
Things Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/11/2009
Posts: 8400
Loc: Blair Athol, SA

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#1172593 - 16/02/2013 06:59 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: Things]
Orebound Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/12/2009
Posts: 2356
Loc: Port Hedland WA / Darwin NT
Somebody needs to see a doctor!

Come on dude - move on from LSD if you wanna take a trip!

Let it go man because we all know it is an attempted troll.
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#1172605 - 16/02/2013 08:44 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: Orebound]
subhumn Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 19/11/2012
Posts: 28
Loc: Sydney, Australia
The ENMOD treaty was enacted because of Operation Popeye (a cloud seeing operation), and these weather modification companies do the same thing. The ENMOD treaty states that:

“In particular, each State should enact criminal legislation to outlaw and repress the use of prohibited techniques within its territory and anywhere else under its jurisdiction or control.”

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#1172683 - 16/02/2013 12:27 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: subhumn]
Xavo Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 11/11/2009
Posts: 1954
Loc: Airlie Beach & Brisbane
You definitely should take it up with UN, Security Council, BOM et al.
They might be able to tax it?!

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#1172764 - 16/02/2013 16:17 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: Xavo]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14152
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Look if cloud seeding actually worked there wouldn't be another drought, anywhere on the planet now would there? Oh and Nobel prizes all round for teh scientists that came up with a working weather machine but so far none have been presented for weather manipulation, so that blows that theory straight out the window as does your expalantions about the US manipulating the weather in Vietnam. What the yanks made it rain so that they, a civilastaion that runs for cover at the slightest hint of wet stuff falling from the sky, would actually make it rain harder on a civilisation that spent it's entire history working in monsoonal conditions? And that would help the yanks out how exactly? Blocking sat coverage, reducing flying conditions, flooding rivers and roads making movement almost impossible for themselves but making conditions ideally suited to the VC?

Look the present models are flat out predicting what the temprature will be in 24 hours so how the hell would a computer be able to manipulate a force as strong as the weather? And what is it powered by? 50,000 monkeys riding unicycles attached to the worlds largest AA battery? Bending the laws of physics to prop up your nonsense is one thing but completely ignoring 3000 years of scientific exploration is beyond the pale. Science is based on facts, not Youtube clips from some numpty trying to sell you something.
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#1172769 - 16/02/2013 16:41 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: SBT]
subhumn Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 19/11/2012
Posts: 28
Loc: Sydney, Australia
There are civilian governmental entities, associations and companies.

weathermodification.com
Weather Modification Association
Texas Weather Modification Association
Beijing Weather Modification Office

I`m sure there is more.

Also, where there is civilian, there is military...

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#1172850 - 17/02/2013 00:09 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: subhumn]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 738
Loc: WA
http://treaties.un.org/pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XXVI-1&chapter=26&lang=en#6

That link will take you to the official UN Treaty Collection page. ENMOD is interestingly still listed under its original name - Convention on the prohibition of military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques.

Have a read, you'll see that ratification is still taking place, with the last country signing in April 2011.

As for your questions about Operation Popeye SBT, maybe you'll find this transcript enlightening: http://www.sunshine-project.org/enmod/popeye

Subhumn, I seriously think you're wasting your time trying to open the minds of folk in this forum. They live within their own comfort zone of "knowledge" and being presented with facts from outside of that comfort zone brings out the troll in some of them.

Won't be long before one of them demand a mod close this thread.

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#1172851 - 17/02/2013 00:15 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: Jax]
Things Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/11/2009
Posts: 8400
Loc: Blair Athol, SA
How about some facts that are actually possible within the laws of physics? Because so far I haven't seen any.

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#1172852 - 17/02/2013 00:19 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: Things]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 738
Loc: WA
Have you looked, Things? smile

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#1172872 - 17/02/2013 09:08 Re: Environmental modification, ENMOD and our changing climate [Re: Jax]
Brett Guy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 4844
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Cloud seeding is one thing but the constant claims of creating and steering of things like T/C's and lows is beyond a joke. Learn something about these systems first before making ridiculous claims. It is no different to AGW pushers claiming they are due to climate change. Just because a system follows a path that no other system has followed before or does something uncommon does not mean it is unatural. Actually, I guarantee that no cyclone EVER IN HISTORY has ever followed the exact same path as another cyclone. We do not have the power to control weather. Deal with it. The only way we could really effect climate is by detonating a large number of nukes in a short period of time to cause a nuclear winter.

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