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#1193436 - 11/05/2013 12:17 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14156
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Hansen’s “death train” argument denied as a “nuisance”

Posted on June 20, 2011 by Anthony Watts

(1) http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/20/hansens-death-train-argument-denied-as-a-nuisance/


After all the caterwauling from Hansen about coal “death trains”, and his defense of criminal mischief at a power plant in the UK, this is a real “mud in your eye” moment and an affirmation that no one industry can be singled out as a scapegoat for global warming, climate change, climate disruption.

The supremes have spoken:

Supreme Court rejects climate nuisance suits

The Supreme Court today unanimously rejected the effort by some states to sue utilities for greenhouse gas emissions on the basis of the nuisance doctrine, holding that the Clean Air Act pre-empts federal common law.



In our favor, SCOTUS did say that the EPA could refuse to regulate GHGs as long as the refusal is not arbitrary and capricious. So skeptics will take today’s win and work toward the next (non-Obama) administration rolling back the endangerment finding.

Click here for the Court opinion in AEP v. Connecticut.

Full story at junkscience.com

This WUWT post by Indur Goklany is also worth reviewing:

U.S. Life Expectancy in an Era of Death Trains and Death Factories
[/I]
As per usual click on (1) link to see all the inner links etc.
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Oct 143mm
2017 Total 836mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
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2013 Total 715mm







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#1193439 - 11/05/2013 12:33 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
Originally Posted By: SBT
Well, Hansen’s “death trains” have taken on a crazier, even more wobbly, left spin. Physicist Gordon Fulks writes Via Lars Larson nationally syndicated radio show:


Hmmm written by Gordon Fulks smirk
Clearly one sided...Gordon Fulks is One of the biggest sceptics around

Quote:
Climate skeptic instructor fired from Oregon State University



Originally Posted By: SBT
Spraying of coal in an open top hopper car with an aqueous composition containing at least about 2.5% of a binder material consisting of solid material in an aqueous suspension of an asphalt emulsion or a black liquor lignin product and containing 0.1 to 2.0% of water soluble ethoxylated alkyl phenol or sulfo succinate wetting agent results in the formation of a crust layer which provides protection against loss of coal due to wind action during rapid movement of the car.

Improvements to the patent are as recent as 2006:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4169170

Like I said, this is a non-problem, already solved. But, that one video from Pennsylvania gets a lot of folks all worked up about black lung disease I’m sure.


Well it is obviosly not a "non-problem" in some areas still.

Article from 2 days ago...

Residents near coal corridor south-west of Brisbane should wear masks, says environtmental medicine expert Dr Andrew Jerimijenko

RESIDENTS concerned about the health impacts of uncovered coal trains should wear masks to protect themselves from the dust, says a leading expert in the field.

Dr Andrew Jerimijenko, a GP who specialises in environmental medicine, made the suggestion at a community meeting at Yeronga on Wednesday night to discuss the health effects of coal trains passing through Brisbane suburbs.

"That's what we do on the mine site, we get people to wear a mask so they don't breath in the coal dust,'' he said.

"It's a simple thing to do.''

About 70 residents attended the meeting held at Kurilpa Scout Hall, only metres from the Yeronga train station.

Dr Jerimijenko spoke about health problems found in coal workers and took questions from the crowd.

One resident wanted to know what could be done to minimise the risk.


Dr Jerimijenko suggested residents seal their windows, turn on their air conditioning and if necessary wear a mask.

"If you are concerned those options are available,'' he said.

Dr Jerimijenko said he couldn't tell people what, if any, health risks they faced from coal dust because no studies had been done.

The number of coal trains travelling along the West Moreton line is set to double from about 5000 a year to 10,000 by 2020.

New Hope Group, which is responsible for about 60 per cent of coal trains carrying coal to the Port of Brisbane, began veneering this month after two months of dust testing at selected points along the line.

But Dr Jerimijenko said veneering - which involves spraying coal with chemicals to prevent it from spreading - was not ideal.

"The problem you have is coming back, do they veneer the empty carriages? My understanding is they don't."

He said a simple solution would be to cover the coal trains with lids.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/...e-1226638146680
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#1193440 - 11/05/2013 12:42 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
Hardly an open argument.

Originally Posted By: SBT
Hansen’s “death train” argument denied as a “nuisance”

Posted on June 20, 2011 by Anthony Watts

(1) http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/20/hansens-death-train-argument-denied-as-a-nuisance/


Quote:
Watts Up With That?
Watts established the blog, Watts Up With That? (WUWT?) in 2006. The blog focuses on the global warming controversy, in particular, Watts skepticism about the role of humans in global warming

Watts has expressed a skeptical view of anthropogenic CO2-driven global warming
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1193446 - 11/05/2013 13:52 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14156
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
As per usual it is up to you and any one else who wants information to read and understand what has been said, follow the links within the articles do some more research and then make up your own mind.

A service I provide for those looking for information, not left wing green hype.

Meanwhile in the real world, thousands of Brisbanites are still refusing to fall ill or die from the effects of so called coal dust pollution.


As for Anthony Watts stance on climate change and global warming it might help if you actually read how he came to the conclusions that climate change and global warming was based on a lie originally as a result of very badly sited Stevenson screens and reporting sites. (The IPCC/CRU had an opportunity to reassess their theory when he first exposed the problem. He laid no blame at anyone's feet and invited anyone who wanted to, to explore what he had found and in the case of cAGW mob a chance to rewrite some or all of their claims. They didn't and that has started an all in war from the Warmista's™ against him and his followers for daring to have a contrary view point.)

It started years ago as a side project to help people understand how temperatures being reported at 'official' reporting centres where vastly different to what people where actually experiencing. He found that things like jet exhausts at airports being pointed directly at Stevenson screens raised temperatures, as did having them sited next to freeways made of concrete, in front of the heat exchangers of air conditioning units, being placed on gravel instead of grass and any number of other problems which all contributed to Urban Heat Influence being responsible for increased temperatures.

Through his and his group members efforts in photographing these reporting sites and having independent checks done they have proved that UHI was the cause for the USA temperature records being skewed so high.

In other words he exposed a fault in the system.

He is a university trained meteorologist with many years of observation experience behind him as well as working in the TV industry as a weather reporter.

He came to his conclusions about global warming the same way I did. By investigating what was being said and coming to the opinion that it was all based on a failed hypothesis. I am just a layman but even I can follow the information he supplies and the other people who regularly contribute to his blog. That doesn't mean that I blindly believe everything that is posted there. But rather I use my skills to research those facts as I can and then come to a conclusion.

He dared to question what was being said to him by experts and discovered that it held little to no credence so set about setting the record straight via his blog.

Unlike the Green Left he provides information backed up by research as well as providing links to articles or information contained within each post. Yes he states an opinion about cAGW, yes he questions the science, No he won't lie down and go away. He uses his right to free speech to say what he thinks is the truth backed up by facts - not politically correct left wing green environuts dogma.
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2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
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2013 Total 715mm







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#1193493 - 11/05/2013 20:09 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
Originally Posted By: SBT
As per usual it is up to you and any one else who wants information to read and understand what has been said, follow the links within the articles do some more research and then make up your own mind.

A service I provide for those looking for information, not left wing green hype.


No, it is full of right wing sceptics propaganda instead.
whistle

You claim the issue of coal dust has been "sorted", well it hasn't and it still persists.

Black coal dust dresses salad

IT'S not easy growing healthy vegetables across the road from one of Australia's busiest coal rail corridors.

"[The plants] are always covered in dust, just like the clothes on the line," Tighes Hill resident Gleny Rae said yesterday.

While much has changed in the former industrial suburb since the closure of BHP, some residents believe coal dust is as significant a threat to human health as the former steelworks ever was.

"It's just always around; we're constantly breathing it," Ms Rae told Greens senators Richard Di Natale and Lee Rhiannon who visited her house.

The senators are in Newcastle for the first public hearing of the national Senate inquiry into the health impacts of air pollution.

The majority of the 83 submissions the committee received were from the Hunter region. Most expressed concern about the rapid expansion of the mining industry on air quality.

Senator Rhiannon said the enforcement of national air quality standards was essential.


"That's feedback that I've had for years now from people who say we are told there are conditions but nothing happens. That's what we want to change from this inquiry," she said.

Senator Di Natale, a public health specialist, said the health costs of increased air pollution were constantly underestimated, and the epidemiological evidence was clear.

"When you get chronic low-grade exposure to the pollutants that people in Newcastle are exposed to, you are going to see an increase in the illnesses that are related to coal dust," he said.

Today's hearing starts at 9am at Newcastle Town Hall.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1434396/black-coal-dust-dresses-salad/?cs=12
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1193502 - 11/05/2013 20:59 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1620
Loc: Wangaratta
You wouldn't be working in the solar panel industry by any chance Yasi?? I saw a panel smashed today due to poor placement near a golf course. lets hope that those who have them don't get large hail storms!!!

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#1193556 - 12/05/2013 09:14 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14156
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Pretty much says it all about 400ppm. The Thermal Worriers™ keep carping on about CO2 being the main driver of global warming all the time forgetting that the miniscule amount of CO2 pales into absolute insignificance compared to the major warming phenomena which is water vapour.

And yes burning coal produces CO2 but it also produces H2O.
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202mm April 2017
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Oct 143mm
2017 Total 836mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#1193560 - 12/05/2013 09:27 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14156
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Except there is NO record of these supposed increases in health issues that can be laid at the feet of coal dust and this is and will continue to be the point that completely and utterly shoots your claims to bits every time that there is a problem.

You can't prove it for Brisbane, Newcastle or any other rail corridor you can name in Australia. I have no doubts that Newcastle has health issues caused by pollution from iron and aluminium smelting as well as ship building and iron and steel manufacture but from coal dust alone?

Once again I ask for proof, again and again and it never arrives.
You made the claim. You have to provide the proof. It is quite simple concept and one I use all the time. In any debate if you make a claim you have to be prepared to back it up with cold hard facts.

You can't or quite possibly have tried to find the facts and also can't find them so rely on constant harping on about the claims without providing any proof.

You have a history on this forum of making unfounded claims and not backing them up with facts. If you want to be taken seriously by anyone I suggest you start doing some homework and looking beyond the green rhetoric that you rely on and actually exploring both sides of the argument and then making your mind up.
_________________________
202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
Oct 143mm
2017 Total 836mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#1193589 - 12/05/2013 14:58 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
I have brought plenty of facts to the table, the problem is that you don't see them as you are using the "ignore feature".....

So is it just coincidence that area's like Newcastle, the latrobe valley and even the hunter valley, where there is coal mining and coal fired power plants in operation have higher instances of cancer?

Quote:
Hunter New England Area Health Service (HNEAHS) has
a higher cancer incidence and a higher rate of death
from cancer than NSW, most notably among males


Quote:
New report highlights health fears for Hunter Valley
Updated Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:35am AEDT


Health authorities are coming under pressure to properly investigate the health impacts of mining on Australia's largest coal mining region, in the New South Wales Hunter Valley.

It comes after new research showing a link with increased death rates and disease in some other countries.

Sydney University's Associate Professor Ruth Colagiuri analysed research from 10 countries including the USA and the UK.

She says coal mining communities there had elevated rates of cancer and higher death rates from illnesses such as heart, lung and kidney disease.

Birth defects were also more prevalent.

Professor Colagiuri says there are clear indications of serious health issues associated with coal mining and coal-fired power plants for surrounding communities.

But she says there has been no such research done in the Hunter Valley.


Quote:
Physicians for Social Responsibility has released a groundbreaking medical report, “Coal’s Assault on Human Health,” which takes a new look at the devastating impacts of coal on the human body. Coal combustion releases mercury, particulate matter, nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide, and dozens of other substances known to be hazardous to human health. This report looks at the cumulative harm inflicted by those pollutants on three major body organ systems: the respiratory system, the cardiovascular system, and the nervous system. The report also considers coal’s contribution to global warming, and the health implications of global


http://www.psr.org/resources/coals-assault-on-human-health.html

Quote:
You have a history on this forum of making unfounded claims and not backing them up with facts. If you want to be taken seriously by anyone I suggest you start doing some homework and looking beyond the green rhetoric that you rely on and actually exploring both sides of the argument and then making your mind up.


Your information is sourced directly from sceptics based websites like http://joannenova.com.au/ how one sided can you get?

Quote:
Hazardous air pollutants from coal-fired power
plants include:
•Acid gases, such as hydrogen chloride and
hydrogen fluoride;
•Benzene, toluene and other compounds;
•Dioxins and furans;
•Formaldehyde;
•Lead, arsenic, and other metals;
•Mercury;
•Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAH); and
•Radioactive materials, like radium and uranium.
2,3
Researchers have found these toxic emissions
cause a dangerous array of harm to human health
as shown in Table 1.
3
These emissions can make
breathing difficult and can worsen asthma, chronic
obstructive pulmonary disease, bronchitis and other
lung diseases. These pollutants can cause heart
attacks and strokes, lung cancer and other cancers,
birth defects and premature death.These pollutants threaten essential life
systems. Acid gases are corrosive and can irritate
and burn the eyes, skin, and breathing passages.
Long term exposures to metals have the potential
to harm the kidneys, lungs, and nervous system.
Exposures to a handful of the metals and dioxins in
coal-fired power plant emissions increase the risk of
cancer. Specific forms of arsenic, beryllium,
chromium, and nickel have been shown to cause
cancer in both human and animal studies. Table 1
also identifies those pollutants that have long-term
impacts on the environment because they accumulate in soil, water and fish.


Full Report
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1193591 - 12/05/2013 15:04 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
More on coal.

Massive Underground Coal Fire Started in 1962 Still Burns Today

Link

Quote:
You may have already heard the story of Centralia, PA, a coal mining town that had some 1,000 inhabitants at its peak. Now, that population is down to 9. It's become a ghost town for one of the most bizarre reasons imaginable--a fire started in 1962 to burn trash in a dump inadvertently spread to a coal seam underground and has simply never stopped burning. The most recent report, published Dec. 1st in the Bismarck Tribune, confirms that the fire continues to this day--it's lasted an incredible 47 years so far.
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1193600 - 12/05/2013 16:05 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
Another aspect of the dark side of coal is coal fires.

Quote:
Coal fires are a serious health and safety hazard as well as affecting the environment by releasing toxic fumes, reigniting grass, brush, or forest fires, and causing subsidence of surface infrastructure such as roads, pipelines, electric lines, bridge supports, buildings and homes. Whether started by humans or by natural causes, coal seam fires continue to burn for decades or even centuries until either the fuel source is exhausted, a permanent groundwater table is encountered, the depth of the burn becomes greater than the ground’s capacity to subside and vent, or humans intervene. Because they burn underground, coal seam fires are extremely difficult and costly to extinguish, and are unlikely to be suppressed by rainfall.[1] There are strong similarities between coal fires and peat fires.




_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1193624 - 12/05/2013 21:05 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
Lung cancer alarm near coal-fired power stations

A new analysis of pollution data for the Port Augusta region contradicts reassurances from the South Australian Government that smoking can be blamed for high lung cancer rates.

Residents of the region have long complained about health problems they link with two power stations, Playford and Northern, which burn highly-polluting brown coal.

The lung cancer rates around Port Augusta are said by medical experts to be double the expected number.


The independent analysis has been presented in Adelaide at a briefing for state parliamentarians organised by Doctors for the Environment Australia.

Port Augusta mayor Joy Baluch lost her husband to lung cancer 16 years ago and he never smoked.

She dismissed the Government's explanation of high lung cancer rates in the region.

"Of course I don't believe the Government, why should I? After 40 years of constantly being told that the problems at Port Augusta are attributed to the high consumption of cigarettes. This is absolute rubbish," she said.

"They are blatantly lying to the residents."


Fight for data

Air pollution statistics for Port Augusta are collected by Alinta Energy, which owns the two power stations, in conjunction with the Environment Protection Authority.

Professor David Shearman, of Doctors For The Environment Australia, said it took a six-month battle to get the figures, so they could be independently examined.

"What it amounts to is the community feels they have not been listened to," he said.

"When you look at how this community exists, it exists under the shadow of a power station that pours out pollution. They've had to stomach this for years because it supplies a large portion of the state's energy and there's been no alternative."

Professor Shearman said smoking rates were about 7 per cent higher in the Port Augusta region than other areas.

"That's really insufficient to account for a doubling of ... lung cancer," he said.

He said cleaner alternatives for power generation now needed to be considered for the area.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-03/lung-cancer-coal-fire-power-stations-doctors/3987412
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1193625 - 12/05/2013 21:10 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
Report finds cancer risk for coal workers

A six-year probe into cancer rates at one of Australia's largest coal loading terminals has found workers are getting cancer at nearly three times higher than average.

Workers at the Port Waratah Coal Services (PWCS) Kooragang Island coal terminal in Newcastle were told of the findings yesterday.

The company says it is taking the report seriously and is trying establish the reason for such high cancer rates.

Garry Herritt started work at the Kooragang coal loader in 1990 and was diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2004.

He says he is pleased the report has been released.

"It is very pleasing for me personally to see that it's been tabled," he said.

"The disconcerting aspect is of course, the result."

"There is a 1.7-fold increase in the risk of cancer compared to state and national average and a 2.8-fold increase in the risk of cancer compared to the local comparison population at Carrington," he said.

"We can't really pinpoint what might be causing this effect but statistically speaking, it is a strong effect so there is something about the site that might be causing this effect."

Workers are developing a mix of cancers including melanoma, prostate and colorectal.

Over half of the company, which expects to ship 110 million tonnes of coal from the Hunter Valley through its terminals this year, is owned by mining giants Rio Tinto, Xstrata and Anglo American.

PWCS chief executive Hennie Du Plooy says he is taking the findings seriously.

"[There is] no indication at the moment of any occupational link and we'll be continuing some study work to explore that further," he said.

The report recommends an expert review of the site, advice be taken on a cancer-screening program, and workers be encouraged to see their doctors.

PWCS says it accepts all the recommendations.

"In terms of how long it will take, we can't predict that," Mr Du Plooy said.

"I think that depends on the scope of the study and how long it takes the researchers to do it rigorously and properly as they have done in this case."

The Maritime Union of Australia's Glen Williams is calling for a government investigation into Kooragang Island workplaces and says the results are a cause for concern.

"Is it something that is in the water on Kooragang, is it something that is in the air?" he said.

"Those are the questions that we need answered."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-20/coal-terminal-workers-at-risk-of-cancer-says-report/4142746
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1193627 - 12/05/2013 21:33 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14156
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
My information comes from sites that quote other sources within the stories and can be verified if you take the trouble to read them and follow the links.

I don't rely on dogma as proof. Your quotes are all from anti coal websites or green enviro nutters with a political axe to grind.

There is NO corridor of death in Newcastle caused by coal. How can I tell? No Royal Commission to start with. No medical emergency being declared, no mass evacuations, no designating of the region as a no go zone like they did to Wittenoom. No union picket lines, no strikes, no opposition members screaming for action, no Green Party members calling for an end to all coal use in the senate etc. The state and federal governments haven't declared any emergency measures for a clean up in fact there is nothing happening.
The problem is all in the mind of those who wish to close down coal use and will use any means to do it and has nothing to do with real world problems.


A 1.7 increase in cancer rates = 3 times higher rate? That could mean 1 person died last year from cancer and this year 3 people might die from cancer but none of it has been confirmed as being caused by exposure to coal. It is like saying the sky is blue there fore all blue eyed people have bits of sky for eyes.

Maybe if their math skills where higher and that the study could nail down the types of cancer to being caused solely by exposure to coal you might have a case but no numbers of people who got cancer, not broken down by types and no mobility study makes for a fluff piece with no substance.

Again it is an opinion piece by the ABC with scant facts, nothing that can be verified and the statement that
Quote:
"[There is] no indication at the moment of any occupational link and we'll be continuing some study work to explore that further," he said.
Of course the company will continue to look into it so they can cover their collective bums if anything is found.

For all we know it could be skin cancer from surfing, lung cancer from smoking or any number of cancers none of which are caused by coal exposure. Just quoting coal workers died from cancer is meaningless.
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202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
Oct 143mm
2017 Total 836mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#1193628 - 12/05/2013 21:51 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14156
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
It isn't easy proving cancer claims. I spent 10 years representing people with cancer and other diseases and injuries in their fights with the federal government over military compensation claims and the requirements of proof are both extensive and in some cases highly complicated.

An example 1): Most of us who served in the 1970's and 80's used a fuel developed for use in cooking stoves called Range Fuel B (Cooking Range Fuel Type B) which has now been found to contain benzene, a known cariogenic which can cause leukaemia among other things. We used it to wash weapons without using any gloves or respirators and had direct skin contact sometimes for hours at a time. But only after it was withdrawn from use in field kitchens. It is still being fought in a number of cases and until it is accepted by the Repatriation Medical Authority any claims will be refused.

Example 2): I represented an RAAF aircraftsman who had contracted a form of brain cancer and had less than 3 months to live when I first spoke to him. I submitted his claim that day and had an answer back in 7 days - claim disapproved. I continued to fight this claim for 3 years after he died and finally got his wife the compensation he was entitled to and the reason it was finally approved? A photo of him sweeping down a Halifax Bomber in Townsville that had been used to track the radioactive fallout from one of the tests in Maralinga. In the photo was a UK civilian scientist dressed in an anti radiation suit while he and 8 other members of the RAAF stood on and around the bomber sweeping the dust out of the collectors mounted in the wings as well as every vertical and horizontal surface.

So what am I getting at here? To make a successful claim for cancer in this case the cancer has to be one associated with coal or coal dust, it must be proven to be caused solely by that exposure with no other causes being allowed.

If however the cancer could have been caused by any other reason the cancer claims will be disallowed and no matter how much spin, bulldust or hype anyone or any group puts on it, it is medically impossible for every cancer to be caused by coal exposure and so any reference to coal causing it is a lie.
_________________________
202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
Oct 143mm
2017 Total 836mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







Top
#1193632 - 12/05/2013 22:04 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
Bill Illis Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 11/07/2010
Posts: 1003


What are the cancer rates at solar cell manufacturing plants?

Lots of nasty chemicals and heavy metals used in these processes.

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#1193668 - 13/05/2013 09:03 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: Bill Illis]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish


Originally Posted By: SBT
Of course the company will continue to look into it so they can cover their collective bums if anything is found.


You hit the nail right on the head there! they will try to “cover their collective bums if anything is found” that is what they are doing now you only have to look at who made the statement you refer to
Quote:
Port Waratah Coal Services (PWCS) chief executive Hennie Du Plooy says he is taking the findings seriously.

"[There is] no indication at the moment of any occupational link and we'll be continuing some study work to explore that further," he said.


He then goes on to say
Quote:
"Is it something that is in the water on Kooragang, is it something that is in the air?" he said.
covering something up maybe?

Originally Posted By: SBT
no designating of the region as a no go zone like they did to Wittenoom.


Aaaand how long did it take before they finally took action on that front? they new for years that Asbestos was causing all sorts of health issues, but did they do anything about it? no, they did the old side step....”it’s probably something in the water” "it’s probably something in the air....” then the old cover up....... of course they would try to blame everything else, Same with coal and coal dust , why wouldn’t they? After all coal is worth Billions to the e-con-o-mee, so what if a few people die or get cancer because of coal dust, the heal system will take care of them wont it?

Originally Posted By: SBT
I spent 10 years representing people with cancer and other diseases and injuries in their fights with the federal government over military compensation claims and the requirements of proof are both extensive and in some cases highly complicated.

An example 1): Most of us who served in the 1970's and 80's used a fuel developed for use in cooking stoves called Range Fuel B (Cooking Range Fuel Type B) which has now been found to contain benzene,. a known cariogenic which can cause leukaemia among other things.



Benzene and coal mining
Benzene in coal mining poses a potential health threat to coal miners and those who live in close proximity to coal mining facilities. Benzene is an emission produced in the coking process of coal mining



Originally Posted By: SBT
lung cancer from smoking or any number of cancers none of which are caused by coal exposure. Just quoting coal workers died from cancer is meaningless.



Originally Posted By: @_Yasified_shak
Lung cancer alarm near coal-fired power stations
Professor Shearman said smoking rates were about 7 per cent higher in the Port Augusta region than other areas.

"That's really insufficient to account for a doubling of ... lung cancer," he said.

He said cleaner alternatives for power generation now needed to be considered for the area.
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1193679 - 13/05/2013 10:00 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
All just more coincidence?

Port Augusta is SA's cancer hotspot





NEW SA Health statistics have confirmed what the residents of Port Augusta say they have known for years: they have a higher rate of cancer than the rest of the state.

Port Augusta has double the number of cases of lung cancer than the expected state average, according to official figures cited by Health Minister John Hill in a document obtained by the Sunday Mail.

But while locals point the finger squarely at the town's coal-fired power stations, Mr Hill says it's because residents smoke too much.

In a letter from Mr Hill to Port Augusta Council on February 5, the minister cited confidential data from the SA Cancer Registry that shows 36 Port Augusta residents were diagnosed with lung cancer between January 2005 and December 2007.

While he did not provide the state average for the disease, Mr Hill noted in the letter Port Augusta's figure was "double the expected number" of cases for the state.

"The number of cases of each cancer type that occurred in Port Augusta in this period was close to the number expected from state averages, except for lung cancer, where the number of cases was double," he wrote.

"This finding . . . could result from a combination of many factors including, most importantly, smoking history."

But a leading Government cancer researcher, who declined to be named, said there was "no way" a 6.9 per cent higher number of smokers in Port Augusta would account for double the rate of lung cancer.

A national lung cancer expert, who also declined to be named, said blaming the statistic on smoking was "a cop out".

The Sunday Mail tried to obtain further statistical information from the SA Cancer Registry, but was told it was "confidential". Mr Hill's letter came in response to an inquiry from Port Augusta Council city manager Greg Perkin, who wrote to the minister about the issue on December 18.

"We just want to get to the bottom of it," Mr Perkin said.

`He said he was surprised that Mr Hill had attributed the town's cancer rate to smoking, as the community had long considered the local power plants could be part of the problem. Mr Perkin is now awaiting a response from SA Health to his second letter, dated February 25, in which he asked if there was "some other reason for the unusually high lung cancer rate".

Port Augusta Mayor Joy Baluch, whose husband, Teofil, died of lung cancer 14 years ago, said she had long been concerned about health effects of the power stations, citing it as the main issue that prompted her to enter local government in the 1970s.

Ms Baluch said Teofil, who died aged 70, had worked in one of the power stations for about two years and had never smoked. She also said their home was "right in line with the power station".

"People can't convince me the power station is not carcinogenic, there are just too many cases (of cancer), it's terrible," she said.

She said she would not let the issue go. "We will pursue this," she said.

A Port Augusta nurse, who did not want to be named, said she regularly treated lung cancer patients who had no smoking history, as well as patients with bronchitis, asthma and sinus problems.

She also believed the power stations were to blame, saying high levels of ash in the town's air often made it difficult to breathe.

"I see it (lung cancer) all the time and they are not all smokers, and they are not all old," she said. Power plant operator Flinders Power denied it was to blame, saying it met or exceeded all Environmental Protection Agency requirements for air quality. Greens MLC Mark Parnell said the EPA had granted the older of the two power stations a permanent exemption from meeting regular EPA standards. "Your gut reaction would tell you something is not right," he said.

The EPA did not respond to the Sunday Mail's request for comment. A spokesman for SA Health said, while dust particles emanating from coal-fired power stations could contribute to negative health effects, the average levels of such particles in Port Augusta were no different from those in Adelaide.

Mr Hill, when approached for comment, would not be drawn on whether there could be a link between the power stations and the high rate of lung cancer, instead reiterating statistics about smoking.

"The single most common cause of lung cancer is smoking and historically over 32 per cent of adults in Port Augusta have been smokers, which is higher than the average in the rest of the state," he said.

Cancer Council SA chief executive Professor Brenda Wilson said she did not know the origin of Mr Hill's statistics and would like to view the data before making comment.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south...3-1225846333836


_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1193681 - 13/05/2013 10:08 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14156
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
I suggest you start looking at a decent reference if you want to keep making these claims.
Guides to the Evaluation of Permanent Impairment. At between$150 to $400.00 a copy I doubt you will want to purchase it but you may find a version online. If you do I suggest you look at the opening chapter on how the Guides work, how it was created, why it is used as the authority for classification of Permanent Impairments by the US and Australian federal governments and what is and isn't covered. This is the document that is used by Workcover, Comcare, DVA, MCRS and MCRA to determine if an injury or disease is related to work and if it may be covered by the various legislations that cover the above work groups.

It outlines how a determination is arrived at, what testing is required for each injury and disease including clinical testing, diagnostic testing methods and such like. It states in parts that if a diagnosis can't be arrived at then no determination can be made. In other words no clinical proof the claim is rejected.

Until you have an understanding of how medical impairments are arrived at you don't have a clue about how investigations are carried out to determine who and what was at fault. Merely claiming that cancer rates are higher because they worked with coal is rubbish without proof. Is this yet another conspiracy to hide the truth (?) yet again in yet another conspiracy to hide that the federal and state governments are complacent in harming their own citizens by hiding what is happening.
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#1193693 - 13/05/2013 11:18 Re: Coal Fired Power - Dark and dirty side? [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4067
Loc: El Arish
Quote:
Until you have an understanding of how medical impairments are arrived at you don't have a clue about how investigations are carried out to determine who and what was at fault. Merely claiming that cancer rates are higher because they worked with coal is rubbish without proof. Is this yet another conspiracy to hide the truth (?) yet again in yet another conspiracy to hide that the federal and state governments are complacent in harming their own citizens by hiding what is happening.


I may not be an expert in Medicine but it is not hard to see through tactics companies use to try and side step/Blame shift their way around illness and disease cause by their products.

as can be seen by...
Quote:
cited by Health Minister John Hill.........
But while locals point the finger squarely at the town's coal-fired power stations, Mr Hill says it's because residents smoke too much.


Or

Originally Posted By: Port Waratah Coal Services (PWCS) chief executive Hennie Du Plooy says
"Is it something that is in the water on Kooragang, is it something that is in the air?" he said.


No cover ups?

Quote:
Doctors raising the alarm

Two doctors were responsible for raising the alarm about the asbestos risk at Wittenoom. In 1948 Dr Eric Saint, the area flying doctor, was newly arrived from England and so was aware of the health risks from asbestos from his experience there. A few years later in the late1950s, Dr Jim McNulty was working as the Mines Medical Officer. Both men were appalled at the conditions and both raised the alarm about the health risk for the workers. However the Mines Department, with its own entrenched culture, turned a deaf ear to their concerns. Historian Lenore Layman tells more.


2 Doctors raised the alarm about asbestos in the late ‘40’s and 50’s....Now i am sure when they first put their theories forward the would have been labled as crackpot, didn’t know what they were talking about and so on....

It was even earlier than that that the warning signs for asbestos were there.

Quote:
In the early 1900s researchers began to notice a large number of early deaths and lung problems in asbestos mining towns. The first diagnosis of asbestosis was made in the UK in 1924. By the 1930s, the UK regulated ventilation and made asbestosis an excusable work-related disease, followed by the U.S about ten years later


Meanwhile back in Australia.

Quote:
Taking risks with asbestos mining
Asbestos mining companies ignored evidence of potential threats to the health of their workforce and did whatever they could to forestall the introduction of measures which might restrict their operations and profitability. Author Gideon Haigh tells more.

Government turning a blind eye

Josef Schrott was a miner working in Wittenoom in the 1960s who witnessed how the inspections were carried out at the minesite. He is critical of the government authorities who seemed to turn a blind eye to dangerous working conditions that they knew could carry a death sentence for the asbestos miners. He describes how advance warnings of the inspectors’ visits ensured that they never saw the real conditions encountered by the miners in their daily work.


So Governments, doctors new the risks of asbestos going back over 50 years ago....and when exactly was asbestos banned completely?? Victoria completely banned the use of Asbestos around the early 2000’s!
(Blue asbestos was banned in 1967 and Brown was not banned until the late 80's)

Quote:
The court cases

The history of asbestos in Australia and around the world, is a history of cover up with companies choosing to ignore the dangers for as long as possible. Even when they did acknowledge any liability for occupational disease, monetary settlements ensured workers did not talk publicly about their case.
http://www.australianasbestosnetwork.org...es/default.aspx


Yes, quite clearly no companies ever cover anything up to protect themselves or their companies or interests.
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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