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#1186038 - 25/03/2013 14:37 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Thats Ok CeeBee . People remember.


Edited by Seabreeze (25/03/2013 20:00)
Edit Reason: personal remark removed

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#1186050 - 25/03/2013 15:39 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6044
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
"Excellent news that the UK is going to have a carbon tax from next week" CB

Down the gurler goes UK, like Australia and others, they must be off their rocker! carbon prices are like Coles, "down, down"
And they are going through their 5th cold winter in a row!
And it will achieve nothing as it has done elsewhere!
cheers


Edited by bd bucketingdown (25/03/2013 15:39)

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#1186051 - 25/03/2013 15:44 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: ROM]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654
...


Edited by Seabreeze (25/03/2013 20:02)
Edit Reason: response to removed remark two posts above removed
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#1186052 - 25/03/2013 15:46 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6044
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
I see nothing on google about UK getting a carbon tax!

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#1186055 - 25/03/2013 15:53 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
It's hidden in ROM's post from the Telegraph above BD.

Originally Posted By: ROM
Then, hidden in the small print of the Budget, were new figures for the fast-escalating tax the Government introduces next week on every ton of CO2 emitted by fossil-fuel-powered stations, which will soon be adding billions of pounds more to our electricity bills every year.

Within seven years this new tax will rise to £30 a ton, and by 2030 to £70 a ton, making it wholly uneconomical to generate any more electricity from the coal and gas-fired power stations that last week were still supplying two thirds of our electricity.


_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1186061 - 25/03/2013 16:12 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6044
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
Must be huge news then snafu...no one even cares!(except CB, of course!)


Edited by bd bucketingdown (25/03/2013 16:12)

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#1186062 - 25/03/2013 16:16 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654

No one cares because it's not a big deal really seeing as how our economy is doing just fine with a price on carbon and the little bit that prices did rise due to the price on carbon was hardly noticeable.
_________________________

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#1186070 - 25/03/2013 16:55 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
In other news - what now seems to be a very regular event:

Bosch dumps solar business as losses mount

German engineering company Bosch said it is abandoning its solar energy business, because there is no way to make it economically viable...

Read more
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1186071 - 25/03/2013 16:55 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1620
Loc: Wangaratta
Carbon Tax hasn't worked for Australia! Why would it for any other country? Oh that's right!! To pay for renewable energy... I keep forgetting...


Edited by Seabreeze (25/03/2013 19:57)
Edit Reason: personal attack removed

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#1186093 - 25/03/2013 18:27 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
ROFL I hope they link it like our Labor gubermint did. Currently trading at less than $7.00 AUD a ton in Europe. The price is so low that a trading halt will be called as NO ONE IS BUYING or trading in the futures - even the carpet baggers can't make any money out of it.
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#1186310 - 26/03/2013 18:44 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
Seabreeze Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 18/09/2005
Posts: 10665
Loc: SWR
Thread re-opened after 24 hour closure.

Once again, a reminder to stop the personal attacks/remarks which only serve to cause trouble and degenerate the debate.

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#1186406 - 27/03/2013 09:29 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
snafu Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
There's a great article over at JoNova about Ultra Super Critical Coal Fired Power gives a 15% CO2 Emissions Reduction written by Anton Lang (TonyfromOz).

It all comes down to steam.

Assume (for a moment) that we have to reduce the emissions of CO2 by something like 20% between now and 2020.

Previously I showed we could achieve a reduction of 13% in CO2 emissions from the electrical power generating sector just by converting from the current 70’s technology coal fired power to the newest technology USC (UltraSuperCritical) coal fired technology. That 13% I quoted at the time was theoretical, but in China over the last three years the emissions reduction of new USC plants is even better, around 15% to 17%. This is off-the-shelf technology that handles base-load, produces cheap electricity, and reduces emissions.


It's well worth a read.
_________________________
We have about five more years at the outside to do something.
Kenneth Watt, ecologist - Earth Day, 1970
43 years later...we're still here.

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#1186587 - 28/03/2013 09:33 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: refstar]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4218
Loc: El Arish
Originally Posted By: refstar
Originally Posted By: CeeBee
...


Woohoo for you - prob is (a) in the NT you can't put back into the grid and (b) with a 6 month long wet season in the North (on average), solar panels would be useless.....what then!?

Seems more of a 'NIMBY' type of attitude.


So you are trying to tell me that Darwin has 6 months straight of cloudy weather with no fine days in there at all? that i find hard to believe

We get more rain here than you would in Darwin ( and we don't get 6 months of "cloudy days" either and we are still able to power our house over the wet with Solar no problems (and without using a generator) no problems at all!
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1189214 - 13/04/2013 06:51 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2654

Renewables can do 24-hour baseload anywhere, anytime

The University of NSW has exploded the myth that renewables can’t do 24-hour baseload.

THE FUTURE of civilisation and much biodiversity hangs to a large degree on whether we can replace fossil fuels — coal, oil and gas — with clean, safe and affordable energy within several decades. The good news is that renewable energy technologies and energy efficiency measures have advanced with extraordinary speed over the past decade.

Energy efficient buildings and appliances, solar hot water, on-shore wind, solar photovoltaic (PV) modules, concentrated solar thermal (CST) power with thermal storage and gas turbines burning a wide range of renewable liquid and gaseous fuels are commercially available on a large scale.

The costs of these technologies have declined substantially, especially those of solar PV. In 2012, despite the global financial crisis, global investment in these clean, safe and healthy technologies amounted to US $269 billion. Denmark, Scotland and Germany and several states/provinces around the world have official targets of around 100% renewable electricity and are implementing policies to achieve them.

The principal barrier is resistance from vested interests and their supporters in the big greenhouse gas polluting industries and from an unsafe, expensive, polluting, would-be competitor to a renewable energy future, nuclear power. These powerful interests are running a campaign of renewable energy denial that is almost as fierce as the long-running campaign of climate change denial. Both campaigns are particularly noisy in the Murdoch press.

So far the anti-renewables campaign, with its misinformation and gross exaggerations, has received little critical examination in the mainstream media.

The renewable energy deniers rehash, among others, the old myth that renewable energy is unreliable in supplying base-load demand.

Renewable energy is reliable

In a previous article for The Conversation, I reported on the initial results of computer simulations by a research team at the University of New South Wales that busted the myth that renewable energy cannot supply base-load demand. However at the time of the article, I was still under the misconception that some base-load renewable energy supply may be needed to be part of the renewable energy mix.

Since then, Ben Elliston, Iain MacGill and I have performed thousands of computer simulations of 100% renewable electricity in the National Electricity Market (NEM), using actual hourly data on electricity demand, wind and solar power for 2010.

Our latest research finds that generating systems comprising a mix of different commercially available renewable energy technologies, located on geographically dispersed sites, do not need base-load power stations to achieve the same reliability as fossil-fuelled systems.

The old myth was based on the incorrect assumption that base-load demand can only be supplied by base-load power stations; for example, coal in Australia and nuclear in France. However, the mix of renewable energy technologies in our computer model, which has no base-load power stations, easily supplies base-load demand.

Our optimal mix comprises wind 50-60%; solar PV 15-20%; concentrated solar thermal with 15 hours of thermal storage 15-20%; and the small remainder supplied by existing hydro and gas turbines burning renewable gases or liquids. (Contrary to some claims, concentrated solar with thermal storage does not behave as base-load in winter; however, that doesn’t matter.)

The real challenge is to supply peaks in demand on calm winter evenings following overcast days. That’s when the peak-load power stations, that is, hydro and gas turbines, make vital contributions by filling gaps in wind and solar generation.

Renewable electricity is affordable

Our latest peer-reviewed paper, currently in press in Energy Policy journal, compares the economics of two new alternative hypothetical generation systems for 2030: 100% renewable electricity versus an “efficient” fossil-fuelled system. Both systems have commercially available technologies and both satisfy the NEM reliability criterion. However, the renewable energy system has zero greenhouse gas emissions while the efficient fossil scenario has high emissions and water use and so would be unacceptable in environmental terms.

We used the technology costs projected to 2030 in the conservative 2012 study by the Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics (BREE). (In my personal view, future solar PV and wind costs are likely to be lower than the BREE projections, and future fossil fuel and nuclear costs are likely to be higher.) Then, we did thousands of hourly simulations of supply and demand over 2010, until we found the mix of renewable energy sources that gave the minimum annual cost.

Under transparent assumptions, we found that the total annualised cost (including capital, operation, maintenance and fuel where relevant) of the least-cost renewable energy system is $7-10 billion per year higher than that of the “efficient” fossil scenario.

For comparison, the subsidies to the production and use of all fossil fuels in Australia are at least $10 billion per year. So, if governments shifted the fossil subsidies to renewable electricity, we could easily pay for the latter’s additional costs.

Thus 100% renewable electricity would be affordable under sensible government policy, busting another myth. All we need are effective policies to drive the transition.

link
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#1189219 - 13/04/2013 07:29 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
I am not against using renewable energy(despite my sceptisism of AGW), however that article doesn't cut it. Constant reliance on computer modeling is becoming more and more worrying. Renewables simply will not be doing the job in the next few decades and cmputer modelling is not going to change anythiing. It has to prove itself in reality. At the moment it simply cannot do that. Untill it becomes economically viable on it's own even the most vocal global warming countries will not implement it as the primary power source because regardless of how much these countries/economies shoout about the evils of fossil fuels they simply don't care enough to make real sacrifices to do anything about it.

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#1189231 - 13/04/2013 09:23 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
I would love to see all Greenies adopt computer modelled power supplies for their homes and businesses exclusively.
Meanwhile I will be in the house with the bright lights on, cooking and running an air conditioner while those using hand cranked torches struggling to find the reasons why the model has failed and there is no power.

Of course models work - they are written to work and do not take into account real world factor such as a ECL producing 48 hours of 120kph winds over a 500klm long stretch of the coast, or 7 days of rainfall where very little solar is being produced and as for using hydro where do you think the water comes from to produce the power?

That's right it is pumped back into the dams after it has passed through the turbines and which power supply is used for that? Oh that's right your dodgy wind turbines.
_________________________
785mm Jan
799mm Feb
130 March
2019 Total 1714mm
2018 Total 822mm






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#1189246 - 13/04/2013 10:59 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
CeeBee's make believe free energy for nothing "fairies at the bottom of the garden" belief
Quote:
Renewables can do 24-hour baseload anywhere, anytime


And now, the very harsh reality from a highly industrialised nation that has gone all out to make a reality out of that same make believe, renewable ," fairies at the bottom of garden", free energy for nothing, ideology.

Yet despite the expenditure of as much as couple of hundred billion euros [ and a further anticipated $770 billion ; below ; edit; makes the $50 billion NBN boondoggle look like a bit of economic fairy floss ] so far on the so called renewable energy systems the Germans still only produce no more than 22% 0f their power needs from the so called renewable energy.

So much for supplying base load power to an industrialised nation. To claim otherwise is just blowing smoke out the nether regions.

In Germany, in the renewable energy field, the building of new wind and solar farms is coming to a halt despite the already huge subsidies paid by by both consumers and government, due to a claim by the renewable energy scammers that there is not enough subsidy support for renewable energy with demands for even more subsidies which, as Germany, like governments everywhere, runs out of money, will no longer countenance.

In fact as can be read below the German government like governments everywhere in Europe are suggesting that the over generous renewable subsidy regime in place at present will be cut right back in the near future.

And so there is now a full scale renewable energy investor retreat bringing private investment into German renewable energy to a halt.

As well there are rapidly increasing problems with the ability of grid owners to build the huge and complex basic electrical infrastructure that collects the energy from the widely scattered wind and solar farms provide particularly in the very difficult and horrendously expensive grid installations for the off shore wind turbines.

The German public are now fast losing patience and confidence and are becoming quite horrified with the cost and the social penalties particularly for the poor created by the increasingly unaffordable energy from the renewables

They are rapidly losing confidence and patience in the promises of a renewable powered Germany .

Now German industry is starting to desert and leave Germany due to the very high costs and increasingly unreliable power supplies and heading for places like the USA with its now very cheap shale gas and shale oil powered, very reliable and stable energy supplies.

From Bloomberg;

Merkel’s No-Nuke Stumble May Erode Re-Election Support

April 10 (Bloomberg)
Quote:
Chancellor Angela Merkel’s sweeping plan to transform Germany into a green-energy giant almost destroyed Nordseewerke GmbH, one of the country’s leading makers of wind-turbine foundations.

Nordseewerke, which produces Statue of Liberty-sized foundations, ramped up its manufacturing capacity and head count in 2011 after Merkel declared that Germany would begin a massive project to install 25,000 megawatts of offshore wind power by 2030.
More than two years later, the chancellor’s wind farms have been slow to appear, stymied by the difficulty of planting towers in deep ocean waters, an outmoded electrical grid and investors who are losing faith in the project.
The delays hammered 110-year-old Emden-based Nordseewerke, which filed for bankruptcy before DSD Steel Group GmbH bought it in February, retaining only a third of its 750 employees, Bloomberg Markets will report in its May issue.

“Three to four new offshore wind farms should be up and running in the German North Sea by now, but there’s not a single one,” says Tomas Marutz, Nordseewerke’s managing director. “German politicians want offshore wind power, but they failed to provide investors the progress and security they need.”

Merkel, a physicist by training, is attempting to lead the biggest transition to renewable energy of any developed country in history. In 2010, she announced that Europe’s largest economy would more than triple its share of renewable power by 2050 to 80 percent of the nation’s total consumption. The sea-based wind farms alone could cover an area six times the size of New York City.


Fukushima Disaster
Quote:
Half a year later, the nuclear disaster in Fukushima, Japan, spurred another bold move from the German leader. She decided to hasten by about a decade, to 2022, the shuttering of the country’s 17 nuclear reactors, which at the time produced about a fifth of Germany’s electricity.
The chancellor’s Energiewende, or energy switch, is one of her biggest gambles in eight years in office. As Merkel, 58, runs for a third term in September, political opponents and industry groups are attacking her for bungling the transformation, which helped push up household electricity costs 21 percent from 2008 to 2012.
In December, at a summit for her Christian Democratic Union in Hanover, she said that the 550 billion euro ($717 billion) effort is the most ambitious, complex and difficult project in Germany’s future.


Merkel’s Subsidies
Quote:
“If Germany succeeds, it could be a role model for economies all over the world,” says Claudia Kemfert, who heads the energy unit at the DIW economic institute, a research group, in Berlin. “If it fails, it will be a disaster for Germany’s politicians, society and economy.”
Merkel’s subsidies to renewable-energy producers are fueling runaway electricity costs and posing a threat to the stagnant German economy.
Consumers pay for the subsidies through a surcharge on their bills. The fee had surged 47 percent on Jan. 1 from a year earlier. In three years, it had more than doubled.

The Bundesbank, Germany’s central bank, said in December that it expects the economy to expand by as little as 0.4 percent in 2013 as the three-year sovereign-debt crisis continues to exact a toll on exports.
German industry has been hit hard by power prices, which in 2012 were about 40 percent higher than in France and the Netherlands, according to a February report by the Cologne-based IW economic institute, a research organization.


Economic Drag

Quote:
Saddled with these costs, some companies are holding back on making investments in Germany. Worlee-Chemie GmbH, a family- owned business that has produced resins in Hamburg for almost a century, will pay about 465,000 euros this year to finance the country’s renewable-energy expansion, the equivalent of 10 full- time salaries.
So Worlee-Chemie is expanding into Turkey, where in March it was preparing to start producing a new type of hardening agent.
“Higher power prices eventually weigh on the entire German economy,” says Michael Huether, director of the IW institute.

Merkel’s main opponent in the election, Peer Steinbrueck of the Social Democratic Party, is capitalizing on discontent with the energy switch.
In December, he said at an SPD summit that Germans now live in fear of power outages because of government missteps.
One month later, the SPD beat Merkel’s CDU in a vote in Lower Saxony -- the third straight regional defeat for the incumbent party and a sign that its lead in the national election may be eroding.
“Merkel is showing poor leadership on energy policy, and that could hurt her in the September elections,” says Carsten Nickel, a London-based analyst at Eurasia Group, a political- risk research and consulting firm.


Closing Reactors
Quote:
Merkel shocked Europe when she announced her plan to speed up the closure of Germany’s reactors. It was an about-face for the German leader, who has often moved cautiously, such as in her refusal to rush bailouts for Greece without guarantees of budget austerity.
The prior government of Gerhard Schroeder first decided to decommission the reactors, setting the 2020s as a target.
Merkel in September 2010 said she would extend their operation into the 2030s, citing their economic viability and safety record. Then the meltdown of three reactors at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant in March 2011 helped the anti-nuclear Green Party that same month win control of the state of Baden-Wuerttemberg, which the CDU had ruled for 58 years.
Three months later, Merkel and her cabinet decided to permanently switch off the country’s eight oldest reactors and moved up the closing date of the remaining nine plants.


22% Renewable
Quote:
“We all want to get out of nuclear power and switch to a renewable-energy supply as quickly as possible,” Merkel told reporters in Berlin a month after the Fukushima tragedy began unfolding.
Germany was one of the first countries to kick-start its wind and solar industry with uncapped incentives starting in 2000. Today, it’s the world leader in solar power, with 1.3 million panels installed at homes and businesses.

More than 23,000 turbines turn across the country, mainly in the windy north, making it the third-biggest producer of wind power, behind China and the U.S.
By generating about 22 percent of its power from renewables, almost double the U.S. share, Germany saves more than 5 billion euros a year on energy imports. Its companies benefit too: Engineering giant Siemens AG (SIE), which makes wind turbines, and SMA Solar Technology AG (S92) have boosted sales because of the energy switch.
“Almost a quarter of our power comes from renewables, and we’re still one of the most successful and competitive economies worldwide,” Environment Minister Peter Altmaier says.


Great Pyramids
Quote:
Merkel’s expansion plan requires companies to add about 5,000 sea-based turbines by 2030 -- an effort that’s been dogged by technical stumbles.
To build the wind farms, ships carry steel foundations for turbines from the port of Bremerhaven to about 125 kilometers (78 miles) offshore, where cranes lower the 550-ton structures onto the seabed. They will support windmill towers taller than the Great Pyramids of Giza as part of a giant renewable-power plant in the middle of the North Sea.

Completion of the North Sea wind farm and at least four others has been delayed as crews grapple with the demands of installing equipment in seawater as deep as 40 meters (130 feet).
And grid operator TenneT TSO GmbH has warned it wouldn’t be able to connect several wind farms under construction to the mainland network on time, citing problems with transformer stations.
These setbacks have caused the nation’s second-biggest utility, RWE AG (RWE), and Denmark’s Dong Energy A/S to delay investments in new offshore wind farms in Germany.


Energy Jobs
Quote:
“The German energy transformation is as challenging as the first moon landing,” RWE CEO Peter Terium says.
These snafus are threatening jobs in cities such as Bremerhaven. In this former shipbuilding hub, unemployment dropped from 26 percent in 2005 to 14 percent in 2012, thanks to investments from alternative-energy firms.

Areva SA (AREVA), a French company that makes atomic reactors as well as renewable-energy technology, assembles 5-megawatt offshore wind turbines in Bremerhaven.
“The energy switch is so important to us because the offshore industry replaces the jobs lost in shipmaking,” says Melf Grantz, the mayor of Bremerhaven.
The wind industry employs some 3,000 in Grantz’s city, about a third of them at WeserWind GmbH. This maker of windmill foundations needs new orders by midyear or it may have to cut personnel, Dirk Kassen, its managing director, says. Repower Systems SE (RPW), a Hamburg-based wind-turbine maker owned by India’s Suzlon Energy Ltd., will this year let go most of the 400 temporary workers at its PowerBlades GmbH unit in Bremerhaven, says Rebecca Lange, a company spokeswoman.


Grid Update
Quote:
Merkel is also struggling with hang-ups on another massive piece of her energy switch -- updating Germany’s grid.
Today, the country depends on lines in the neighboring Czech Republic, France and Poland to reroute power from its wind farms in the north to the south, a manufacturing hot spot, where automaker Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW) runs factories.

The Czech government last year complained it was close to a blackout because the German wind farms overloaded its grid.
On a December morning in a makeshift tent in the northern city of Schwerin, Merkel conducted a ceremonial opening of a long-stalled power line that had taken about a decade to plan and build. She pushed a plug the size of a soccer ball into a socket, and the line began dispatching electricity across the country.


Power Autobahns
Quote:
It’s part of an effort to construct three north-south so- called power autobahns to ship electricity. Within a decade, Germany aims to build or upgrade some 5,700 kilometers of power lines, the distance from London to Kabul.
As of August, 15 of 24 grid projects identified as key by the government were behind schedule, mainly because of public opposition to construction projects in neighborhoods.

If reactors close before the grid improvements are completed and no new fossil-fuel stations are added, Germany could suffer blackouts, Bavarian Economy Minister Martin Zeil said in February.
“We’re not yet where we want to be,” Merkel told business leaders in February in Mainz.

Eager to prevent a voter backlash in September, Merkel has pledged to contain power prices. The government has increased cuts to clean-energy subsidies during the past three years, and Altmaier in January proposed freezing the related surcharge to consumers in 2014 at the current level.
He said any increase thereafter should be limited to 2.5 percent a year.
If the government can control prices, Merkel said, other countries will follow Germany into renewable energy, giving the economy a chance to create a new export industry.


Germany’s Reputation
Quote:
“It’s not just Merkel’s reputation that’s at stake here,” Eurasia Group’s Nickel says. “Germany wants to be a leader in exporting these green technologies around the world.
But if the project doesn’t work at home, then no one will copy it.”


Meanwhile, Marutz of Nordseewerke is losing patience with government officials who say the wind farm mess will be fixed.

“We’re still being told that installations will pick up,” he says, “but the question is when.

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#1189249 - 13/04/2013 11:15 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: CeeBee]
Vlasta Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 24/01/2008
Posts: 972
Loc: Melbourne Seaford
I have read what ROM just posted somewhere else , all of it . In my quest to find out what is the safe and critical overload and overdraw . To no avail . Only in India years back grid was aprox 20% overdrawn when it failed . Their grid is nowhere as good as Germany's . Germany plan to upgrade their own at a cost of 32 bill euros . There must be something we dont know about grid , otherwise they seem insane to me .

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#1189297 - 13/04/2013 15:40 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4218
Loc: El Arish
Originally Posted By: SBT
I would love to see all Greenies adopt computer modelled power supplies for their homes and businesses exclusively.
Meanwhile I will be in the house with the bright lights on, cooking and running an air conditioner while those using hand cranked torches struggling to find the reasons why the model has failed and there is no power.

Of course models work - they are written to work and do not take into account real world factor such as a ECL producing 48 hours of 120kph winds over a 500klm long stretch of the coast, or 7 days of rainfall where very little solar is being produced and as for using hydro where do you think the water comes from to produce the power?

That's right it is pumped back into the dams after it has passed through the turbines and which power supply is used for that? Oh that's right your dodgy wind turbines.


Again you miss the point, don't knock what you have not tried!
Basically if your house is built to suit the climate you do not need airconditioners, brick and tiled roofed houses in the tropics? who's idea whas that? someone from down south obviously! you have a solid brick wall with no shading in the sun all day and it will radiate heat back into the house all night, why do you think the original Qlanders were highset with verandah’s all round? because the were built to suit the climate.

As for bright lights on in the house well yes we have those, in the the form of super bright led lights that only use 5 watts of power....
In the last 12 month we have used the Genny once to charge the batteries, and if we lived in Townsville where it never rains you probably would never nee to charge batteries with a genny.
With only slight modification of lifestyle you could live grid free and still have the power.f
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1189299 - 13/04/2013 15:53 Re: Renewable Energy News [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Originally Posted By: @_Yasified_shak
Originally Posted By: SBT
I would love to see all Greenies adopt computer modelled power supplies for their homes and businesses exclusively.
Meanwhile I will be in the house with the bright lights on, cooking and running an air conditioner while those using hand cranked torches struggling to find the reasons why the model has failed and there is no power.

Of course models work - they are written to work and do not take into account real world factor such as a ECL producing 48 hours of 120kph winds over a 500klm long stretch of the coast, or 7 days of rainfall where very little solar is being produced and as for using hydro where do you think the water comes from to produce the power?

That's right it is pumped back into the dams after it has passed through the turbines and which power supply is used for that? Oh that's right your dodgy wind turbines.


Again you miss the point, don't knock what you have not tried!
Basically if your house is built to suit the climate you do not need airconditioners, brick and tiled roofed houses in the tropics? who's idea whas that? someone from down south obviously! you have a solid brick wall with no shading in the sun all day and it will radiate heat back into the house all night, why do you think the original Qlanders were highset with verandah’s all round? because the were built to suit the climate.

As for bright lights on in the house well yes we have those, in the the form of super bright led lights that only use 5 watts of power....
In the last 12 month we have used the Genny once to charge the batteries, and if we lived in Townsville where it never rains you probably would never nee to charge batteries with a genny.
With only slight modification of lifestyle you could live grid free and still have the power.f


Not taking sides here YS as I reckon the trying to get off the grid is not a bad idea but in reality you are not 'off the grid' even when yoou are. Every one of those products you have applied too your house has used a large amount of foossil fuel to produce. If yoou truly want to get off the grid then this has to be taken intoo account as well. You have to remove yoourself from society or your attempts while noble in theory are all but useless.

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