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#1135206 - 23/10/2012 20:30 Interesting Articles about AGW
Seabreeze Offline
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Registered: 18/09/2005
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Loc: South West Rocks, NSW
Please discuss 'Interesting Articles about AGW' here.
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#1135235 - 24/10/2012 00:01 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Seabreeze]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14160
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
About time some sense came back to the threads and not before time Seabreeze, but I fear the damage has now been done.

Yes, hands up I deserved banning and so do plenty of others and I make no other excuses except than I was trying to protect the forum and getting absolutely nowhere by Notifying anyone about the problems.

I will now enforce a 7 day self imposed non posting period in the Climate Change threads in the hopes that I don't further tain the threads and allow decent comments to again be posted by those with more knowlege than myself.

Mea Culpa.
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#1135252 - 24/10/2012 07:02 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: SBT]
Greg Sorenson Offline
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Registered: 05/11/2005
Posts: 3256
Loc: Canberra!
Heyya Mike,

we are presenting a fresh start to those who still want to discuss in this thread, and yes the main mud throwers will no doubt know who they are. The lack of moderation over the past 12 months has largely been due to the lack of resources. Please remember, the moderators on WZ are volunteers who many have busy day jobs, have families and other external time pressures that may mean resolving issues within these threads may take longer than some would like.

We encourage differing points of view on Climate Change, however if it dives into the realm name calling and trolling it wont be tolerated. We understand that this is a debate that people often tie in emotion with, and perhaps goes to the very core of individual's ideology, but the discussion should be on the science, and the science alone.
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#1135254 - 24/10/2012 07:33 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Greg Sorenson]
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
Sea Breeze and Greg your new moderation and guidelines are and nwill be very welcome indeed to me and many others, I am sure indeed.
Thanks a million!...I feel much more relaxed and peaceful already!


Edited by bd bucketingdown (24/10/2012 07:35)

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#1135257 - 24/10/2012 08:13 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: bd bucketingdown]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637


I thought this article was interesting...

WHY IT MATTERS: Global warming

The issue:

People love to talk about the weather, especially when it's strange like the mercifully ended summer of 2012. This year the nation's weather has been hotter and more extreme than ever, federal records show. Yet there are two people who aren't talking about it, and they both happen to be running for president.

Read full article
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#1135270 - 24/10/2012 09:28 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
snafu Offline
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Registered: 27/06/2012
Posts: 1437
Loc: Belmont, Lake Macquarie, NSW
Somebody tell Seth Borenstein to send some of that 'record' heat to Lake Tahoe, CA

Current temp - 32°F, 0°C

Poor soles can't even go for a sail on their yachts.
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#1135291 - 24/10/2012 12:21 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: snafu]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637
Originally Posted By: snafu
Somebody tell Seth Borenstein to send some of that 'record' heat to Lake Tahoe, CA

Current temp - 32°F, 0°C

Poor soles can't even go for a sail on their yachts.


There's some nice scenery in those cams, especially the Yosemite Cam.
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#1135370 - 24/10/2012 18:19 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637


An excellent video on PBS Frontline - Climate of Doubt

Four years ago, climate change was a hot issue and politicians from both sides seemed poised to act. Today public opinion on the climate issue has cooled considerably. Politicians either ignore it or proclaim their skepticism. What’s behind this massive reversal? FRONTLINE goes inside the organizations that fought the scientific establishment to shift the direction of the climate debate.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2295533310
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#1135441 - 25/10/2012 07:40 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637

Here's an interesting article that talks about global dimming during the period of 2001 - 2006.

Global Dimming in the Hottest Decade

Key points

Global surface temperatures in the "noughties" decade (2000-2009) were the warmest in at least 120 years of record-keeping. However, the rate of surface warming, was slower than in the two decades that preceded it.

Even though global warming is not expected to result in incremental warming year-after-year, given that the greenhouse gas forcing increased steadily, surface temperatures through the "noughties" decade might have been expected to be warmer than they were.

Analysis of surface and satellite-based observations show that, on a global scale, sunlight reaching the Earth's surface decreased markedly during 2001-2006.

This decline in surface solar radiation was caused by an increase in cloud cover, with a much smaller contribution due to increased concentrations of light-scattering fine particles in the atmosphere called aerosols.

Based on these observations alone, a slower rate of warming of the upper ocean and global surface air temperatures between 2001-2006 should have occurred.
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#1135468 - 25/10/2012 11:06 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 4368
Loc: Brisbane
Originally Posted By: CeeBee

Here's an interesting article that talks about global dimming during the period of 2001 - 2006.

Global Dimming in the Hottest Decade

Key points

Global surface temperatures in the "noughties" decade (2000-2009) were the warmest in at least 120 years of record-keeping. However, the rate of surface warming, was slower than in the two decades that preceded it.

Even though global warming is not expected to result in incremental warming year-after-year, given that the greenhouse gas forcing increased steadily, surface temperatures through the "noughties" decade might have been expected to be warmer than they were.

Analysis of surface and satellite-based observations show that, on a global scale, sunlight reaching the Earth's surface decreased markedly during 2001-2006.

This decline in surface solar radiation was caused by an increase in cloud cover, with a much smaller contribution due to increased concentrations of light-scattering fine particles in the atmosphere called aerosols.

Based on these observations alone, a slower rate of warming of the upper ocean and global surface air temperatures between 2001-2006 should have occurred.


Its interesting that the increase in particulate matter can be recognised as having an impact on air temps (presumably with Chinese economic growth on the back of dirty industry being a massive contributing factor)but very little research is being done on the impact to such on Arctic ice extent.

To me it is no coincidence the the increase in rate of ice loss in the Arctic has coincided with the rise of economic growth in China.

The impact of dark particulate matter deposited on the Arctic ice sheet is well photographed but poorly studied.


Edited by Locke (25/10/2012 11:07)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#1135470 - 25/10/2012 11:19 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Locke]
Bill Illis Offline
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Registered: 11/07/2010
Posts: 1003

The hemispheric temperature trends are completely opposite to what the Aerosol explanation/excuse should have produced.

The northern hemisphere is where all the warming has been and where the Aerosols are.

The southern hemisphere has done little.

In fact, in the satellite record, the trend goes from 0.0C to +0.4C per decade in close to a straight line as one increases the latitude from the South Pole to the North Pole.

That itself is perhaps more interesting than discounting the Aerosol explanation/excuse

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#1135474 - 25/10/2012 11:39 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Bill Illis]
Arnost Offline
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Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
Quote:
The hemispheric temperature trends are completely opposite to what the Aerosol explanation/excuse should have produced.

The northern hemisphere is where all the warming has been and where the Aerosols are.

The southern hemisphere has done little.


Exactly!

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#1135486 - 25/10/2012 14:16 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637

The article clearly explains what happened in both hemispheres.

Analysis of satellite-based observations by Hatzianastassiou (2011) reveal that the Earth experienced a substantial decline in the amount of solar radiation received at its surface between 2001-2006. This decline was primarily the result of increased cloud cover, however a much smaller contribution came from increased aerosol concentrations.

The Northern Hemisphere underwent slight brightening during this time, but was overcompensated for by a strong dimming of surface solar radiation in the Southern Hemisphere - whose surface area is largely dominated by ocean.
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#1135488 - 25/10/2012 14:21 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
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Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
Quote:
...but was overcompensated for by a strong dimming of surface solar radiation


Can you please explain what you mean by the above?
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“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1135491 - 25/10/2012 14:32 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
CeeBee Offline
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Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637
Basically it's to do with the amount of sunlight received at the surface. More clouds and aerosols will reduce the amount of surface solar radiation, resulting in dimming.

Have a read of this article for more info.

ENLIGHTENING GLOBAL DIMMING AND BRIGHTENING
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#1135514 - 25/10/2012 16:04 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
From your link:

CAUSES OF DIMMING AND BRIGHTENING.
The decadal variations in SSR cannot be explained by changes in the luminosity of the sun

The observed SSR variations therefore have to originate from alterations in the transparency of the atmosphere

Aerosols can directly attenuate SSR by scattering and absorbing solar radiation (direct effect), or indirectly attenuate SSR through their ability to act as cloud condensation nuclei (CCN), thereby increasing cloud reflectivity and lifetime.

So logically (assuming the above is right):

The Northern Hemisphere atmosphere, [because of all the pollution and crap spewing out of North America, Europe and particularly Asia since the 1980's] was less transparent and so reduced the surface solar radiation (SSR) and therefore the surface (logically) cooled; while the Southern Hemisphere atmosphere [mostly ocean and which doesn't have all the crap in the atmosphere] was more transparent and so increased the solar surface radiation and therefore (logically) warmed.

[Is my logic is correct?].



Edited by Seabreeze (25/10/2012 16:19)

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#1135519 - 25/10/2012 16:19 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
CeeBee Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 25/02/2012
Posts: 2637
It looks to me that the Southern hemisphere had more cloud cover than the Northern hemisphere which would explain what happened.

The article stated clearly that the amount of cloud cover had more of an influence than aerosols from pollution.
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#1135520 - 25/10/2012 16:33 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: CeeBee]
Brett Guy Offline
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Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 4896
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Out of curiosity CeeBee. The article states very clearly that increased cloud cover has a large impact of surface heating yes? Taking that in reverse wouldn't this logically mean that a reduction in cloud cover would have the oppisite effect ie an increase in surface temps. Has anyone in the AGW crowd given us a number to indicate what the cloud cover was like 'before' the warming really got cranking and might this not be a reason for the warming in the first place. A natural phenomonen that is part of a whole pile of long term cycles. I mean. We are being told that cloud cover is a strong enough factor to counter AGW after all.

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#1135522 - 25/10/2012 16:36 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Brett Guy]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
Quote:
It looks to me that the Southern hemisphere had more cloud cover than the Northern hemisphere which would explain what happened.


Can you please substatiate that?
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“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#1135535 - 25/10/2012 17:02 Re: Interesting Articles about AGW [Re: Arnost]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
Originally Posted By: Arnost
Quote:
It looks to me that the Southern hemisphere had more cloud cover than the Northern hemisphere which would explain what happened.


Can you please substatiate that?



Hmmm. Didn't think so. As usual what you so confidently say CeeBee - turns out to be completely unsupported and misleading.




And so what I sarcastically said earlier - is a lot of complete baloney using your logic. As is your claim that dimming and cooling is an explanation for the temperature hiatus.
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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