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#1427967 - 13/07/2017 20:54 Re: Australian Politics [Re: RC]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 6904
Loc: Adelaide Hills.
Originally Posted By: RC
Originally Posted By: samboz


The current crop of Pollies are ALL shonky RW, (IMO) and interested in personal aggrandisement - not the future of Australia.



They are only following the will of the people.

The future of Australia requires investment now, action for that future now, and changes in the way we process information now...not in the future! So in that sense I disagree on both counts!

Invest in the present and the future will follow accordingly. Ponder about/dwell on the future and what it might bring, on and on and on, and one will lose sight and sense of the present moment! As far as I'm concern one doesn't resolve "issues" by feeding the fire.


Edited by Seira (13/07/2017 20:55)
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#1427991 - 14/07/2017 10:40 Re: Australian Politics [Re: RC]
ozthunder Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 2948
Loc: Mt Warrigal, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: RC
You can laugh all you like Coldfront, but they are.

Look at the national welfare bill, last I heard it was $160 billion a year and rising rapidly. Welfare is not something you associate with right wing parties. Look at all the rules and regulation we have. Workers are treated like they are made of cotton wool in this country. Again, not something you associate with right wing'ism.

Individuality and the rights of the individual play second fiddle to the whims of "society". A left wing attribute.


and the answer would be? something out of the Koch Brother's manual

You can always move to somewhere like South Africa to see how lack of welfare works.

Nice gated communities (just like we are starting to see here). Make sure your car locks are sound to prevent car jackings at the traffic lights.

There are dole bulgers, there are walking wounded on disability, but the numbers are much lower than people think.

Our welfare pales compared to most of Scandinavia. Those people rank as some of the most educated and happiest in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending
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http://ozthunder.com

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#1428053 - 15/07/2017 13:30 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
samboz Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/11/2014
Posts: 1613
Loc: Between Maffra & the Mountains...
Just for CF -

Malcolm Turnbull, Donald Trump,
and Vladimir Putin all die and go to hell.
While there, they spy a red phone and ask
what the phone is for.
The devil tells them it is
for calling back to Earth.
Putin calls Russia and talks for 5 minutes.
When he was finished the devil informs him that the cost is a million dollars, so Putin writes him a cheque..
Next Donald Trump calls the U.S. and talks for 30 minutes.
When he's finished the devil informs him that the cost is 6 million dollars, so Trump writes him a cheque.
Finally Malcolm Turnbull gets his turn and calls Australia for 4 hours. When he's finished, the devil informed him that there would be no charge and feel free to call Australia anytime.
Putin and Trump go ballistic and ask the devil why Malcolm Turnbull got to call Australia free.
The devil replied, "Since Malcolm Turnbull became Prime Minister of Australia, the Country has gone to hell, so it's a local call."
_________________________
Rain 2016 - 753.5mm.
J-173mm F-5mm M-66mm A-32.5mm M-24mm J-88mm J-143mm A-17.5mm S-89.5mm O-53.5mm Nov-61.5mm Dec - 26mm TOTAL 2016 - 779.5MM
Rain 2017. Jan-9.5mm Feb-23mm March-49mm April-40mm May-12mm June-12mm July-14.5mm to 0900 28th

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#1428060 - 15/07/2017 16:16 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ozthunder]
Ruckle Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 03/08/2005
Posts: 6079
Loc: Woodend VIC 579m ASL - where w...
Originally Posted By: ozthunder
Originally Posted By: RC
You can laugh all you like Coldfront, but they are.

Look at the national welfare bill, last I heard it was $160 billion a year and rising rapidly. Welfare is not something you associate with right wing parties. Look at all the rules and regulation we have. Workers are treated like they are made of cotton wool in this country. Again, not something you associate with right wing'ism.

Individuality and the rights of the individual play second fiddle to the whims of "society". A left wing attribute.


and the answer would be? something out of the Koch Brother's manual

You can always move to somewhere like South Africa to see how lack of welfare works.

Nice gated communities (just like we are starting to see here). Make sure your car locks are sound to prevent car jackings at the traffic lights.

There are dole bulgers, there are walking wounded on disability, but the numbers are much lower than people think.

Our welfare pales compared to most of Scandinavia. Those people rank as some of the most educated and happiest in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending


Happiest?

https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/suicide-rates.htm
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#1428152 - 16/07/2017 19:09 Re: Australian Politics [Re: RC]
Red Watch Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 14/03/2010
Posts: 279
Loc: Townsville
Originally Posted By: RC
You can laugh all you like Coldfront, but they are.

Look at the national welfare bill, last I heard it was $160 billion a year and rising rapidly. Welfare is not something you associate with right wing parties. Look at all the rules and regulation we have. Workers are treated like they are made of cotton wool in this country. Again, not something you associate with right wing'ism.

Individuality and the rights of the individual play second fiddle to the whims of "society". A left wing attribute.

You might have to complain to the pensioners, disabled and carers about reducing the welfare bill.
2016–17
$m
Assistance to the aged
63,057
Assistance to veterans and dependents
6,405
Assistance to people with disabilities
34,157
Assistance to families with children
37,084
Assistance to the unemployed and the sick
11,591
Other welfare programs
1,529
Assistance for Indigenous Australians nec*
2,161
General Administration
3,671
Total social security and welfare
159,654

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#1428164 - 16/07/2017 21:25 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Red Watch]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 6904
Loc: Adelaide Hills.
Originally Posted By: Red Watch
Originally Posted By: RC
You can laugh all you like Coldfront, but they are.

Look at the national welfare bill, last I heard it was $160 billion a year and rising rapidly. Welfare is not something you associate with right wing parties. Look at all the rules and regulation we have. Workers are treated like they are made of cotton wool in this country. Again, not something you associate with right wing'ism.

Individuality and the rights of the individual play second fiddle to the whims of "society". A left wing attribute.

You might have to complain to the pensioners, disabled and carers about reducing the welfare bill.
2016–17
$m
Assistance to the aged
63,057
Assistance to veterans and dependents
6,405
Assistance to people with disabilities
34,157
Assistance to families with children
37,084
Assistance to the unemployed and the sick
11,591
Other welfare programs
1,529
Assistance for Indigenous Australians nec*
2,161
General Administration
3,671
Total social security and welfare
159,654

Without a reputable source and valid context, what credibility does one think I'd give the above statistics!!! One has very little idea what I think of some of the.......stuff in here!


Edited by Seira (16/07/2017 21:28)
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#1428222 - 17/07/2017 17:24 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
bundybear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/12/2010
Posts: 2033
Loc: Between Bundy and Gladstone
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/lead...121bf12e2483644

So now we will have a 'indeginous' vote for parliament.

Who will decide the nominees for this? Will they be of pure blood or the 'chinese afghan' who count themselves as aboriginal?

I really feel sorry for the real aboriginals. How much money the govt gives to aboriginal affairs that is spent on those inner city dwelling aboriginals with blonde hair and blue eyes whilst those who really need/deserve help go without.

Sorry, but I see this as yet another farce.

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#1428226 - 17/07/2017 18:02 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Red Watch]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17327
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Originally Posted By: Red Watch
Originally Posted By: RC
You can laugh all you like Coldfront, but they are.

Look at the national welfare bill, last I heard it was $160 billion a year and rising rapidly. Welfare is not something you associate with right wing parties. Look at all the rules and regulation we have. Workers are treated like they are made of cotton wool in this country. Again, not something you associate with right wing'ism.

Individuality and the rights of the individual play second fiddle to the whims of "society". A left wing attribute.

You might have to complain to the pensioners, disabled and carers about reducing the welfare bill.
2016–17
$m
Assistance to the aged
63,057
Assistance to veterans and dependents
6,405
Assistance to people with disabilities
34,157
Assistance to families with children
37,084
Assistance to the unemployed and the sick
11,591
Other welfare programs
1,529
Assistance for Indigenous Australians nec*
2,161
General Administration
3,671
Total social security and welfare
159,654


This is fairly common knowledge. Hence why Keating introduced compulsary worker's superannuation for retirement. The disability element goes without saying.
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#1428355 - 18/07/2017 19:01 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Seira]
Red Watch Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 14/03/2010
Posts: 279
Loc: Townsville
Originally Posted By: Seira
Originally Posted By: Red Watch
Originally Posted By: RC
You can laugh all you like Coldfront, but they are.

Look at the national welfare bill, last I heard it was $160 billion a year and rising rapidly. Welfare is not something you associate with right wing parties. Look at all the rules and regulation we have. Workers are treated like they are made of cotton wool in this country. Again, not something you associate with right wing'ism.

Individuality and the rights of the individual play second fiddle to the whims of "society". A left wing attribute.

You might have to complain to the pensioners, disabled and carers about reducing the welfare bill.
2016–17
$m
Assistance to the aged
63,057
Assistance to veterans and dependents
6,405
Assistance to people with disabilities
34,157
Assistance to families with children
37,084
Assistance to the unemployed and the sick
11,591
Other welfare programs
1,529
Assistance for Indigenous Australians nec*
2,161
General Administration
3,671
Total social security and welfare
159,654

Without a reputable source and valid context, what credibility does one think I'd give the above statistics!!! One has very little idea what I think of some of the.......stuff in here!

Just for you Seira
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/library/prspub/4262560/upload_binary/4262560.pdf;fileType=application/pdf
And the Budget Paper itself.
http://www.budget.gov.au/2016-17/content/bp1/html/bp1_bs5-01.htm
Note....both links give slightly different figures for the 2016/2017 budget but they are called estimates and were done at different dates.


Edited by Red Watch (18/07/2017 19:08)

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#1428356 - 18/07/2017 19:12 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 6904
Loc: Adelaide Hills.
Thank you Red Watch.
_________________________
*Kindness is our ally.

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#1428359 - 18/07/2017 19:41 Re: Australian Politics [Re: bundybear]
Red Watch Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 14/03/2010
Posts: 279
Loc: Townsville
Originally Posted By: bundybear
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/lead...121bf12e2483644

So now we will have a 'indeginous' vote for parliament.

Who will decide the nominees for this? Will they be of pure blood or the 'chinese afghan' who count themselves as aboriginal?

I really feel sorry for the real aboriginals. How much money the govt gives to aboriginal affairs that is spent on those inner city dwelling aboriginals with blonde hair and blue eyes whilst those who really need/deserve help go without.

Sorry, but I see this as yet another farce.

The idea of ancestry is a farce, if your father is English and you mother is Spanish exactly how do you trace your roots.

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#1428365 - 18/07/2017 20:02 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Red Watch]
bundybear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/12/2010
Posts: 2033
Loc: Between Bundy and Gladstone
Originally Posted By: Red Watch



The idea of ancestry is a farce, if your father is English and you mother is Spanish exactly how do you trace your roots.


The farce is that you do not need to have any aboriginal genetics to be one. If you hang out with a group that are 'aboriginal' then they can declare you one even if your father is English and your mother Spanish.

This will entitle you to all the services that are provided for free. Meanwhile those who really deserve the help get nothing. That is wrong.

If my parents were English and Spanish I would call myself a cross bred. I would not be claiming to be either. In fact I am a cross bred mutt and have no real idea of my breeding. Perhaps I am part aboriginal as I have dark hair and brown eyes which is more than many claiming 'aboriginal' rights have. In fact I am closer to the land than many 'aboriginals'. I have a close physical and mental connection to it.

Perhaps I should put my hand up for a nice payment?

I also always refuse to tick any box that might define my ancestory. I do not know it so can not tick yes or no and feel that everyone is entitled to the same service whether they tick yes or no.


Edited by bundybear (18/07/2017 20:06)

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#1428418 - 19/07/2017 10:23 Re: Australian Politics [Re: bundybear]
ozthunder Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 2948
Loc: Mt Warrigal, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: bundybear

The farce is that you do not need to have any aboriginal genetics to be one. If you hang out with a group that are 'aboriginal' then they can declare you one even if your father is English and your mother Spanish.



I too do not agree with that. It should be like indigenous Indians in the USA, you must have Indian blood.

I highly suspect an indigenous ancestor in my family tree, but at present none of the commercial DNA tests like Ancestorydotcom, or National Geographic test for Indigenous Australian DNA, they only come back with Oceania, which means Auntie Jane could have been Indonesian, Tongan, New Guinea, or Indigenous.

However as BundyBear has said, in a perverse parody even if I had indigenous ancestry, that is not enough to claim Indigenous hertitage, you have to be accepted by the community. Not so with Indian in USA, you have the blood you are it.

One thing we do have to be careful with is that "blond hair, blue eyes' can quickly appear in mixed indigenous, more so than many other races.

Getting technical here --- too often we think black = African or Afro American. These people are genetically different in that most unless they have intermarried do not carry Neanderthal DNA. On the other hand Australian Indigenous do, as well as DNA from another extinct human, Denisovan. This is probably why some indigenous children have blond hair, and why even after 1-2 generations of inter marry they look white.
_________________________
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http://ozthunder.com

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#1428424 - 19/07/2017 11:09 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
samboz Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/11/2014
Posts: 1613
Loc: Between Maffra & the Mountains...
Most searches for definition of AUS Aboriginality are along the lines here -

https://aiatsis.gov.au/research/finding-your-family/before-you-start/proof-aboriginality
_________________________
Rain 2016 - 753.5mm.
J-173mm F-5mm M-66mm A-32.5mm M-24mm J-88mm J-143mm A-17.5mm S-89.5mm O-53.5mm Nov-61.5mm Dec - 26mm TOTAL 2016 - 779.5MM
Rain 2017. Jan-9.5mm Feb-23mm March-49mm April-40mm May-12mm June-12mm July-14.5mm to 0900 28th

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#1428425 - 19/07/2017 11:24 Re: Australian Politics [Re: samboz]
bundybear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/12/2010
Posts: 2033
Loc: Between Bundy and Gladstone
Originally Posted By: samboz
Most searches for definition of AUS Aboriginality are along the lines here -

https://aiatsis.gov.au/research/finding-your-family/before-you-start/proof-aboriginality


Government agencies and community organisations usually accept three ‘working criteria’ as proof or confirmation of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage:

being of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
identifying as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived.
All of these things must apply. The way you look or how you live are not requirements.Government agencies and community organisations usually accept three ‘working criteria’ as proof or confirmation of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage:



Years ago not many people admitted to carrying aboriginal blood especially if it was faint tint. Much like we didn't admit to convict ancestors. Therefor it was hidden from following generations.

I don't think that a person who is 1/64th aboriginal blood, born and raised in the middle of a city should be allowed any benefits related to aboriginality. Yet these are the people who are sucking up housing money, education money, grants moneys whilst a community in central australia go without.

And those that the govt will likely look to for advice on how to help aborigines.


Edited by bundybear (19/07/2017 11:25)

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#1428431 - 19/07/2017 14:16 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Red Watch]
RC Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 29/09/2007
Posts: 1935
Loc: near Rockhampton, Qld
Originally Posted By: Red Watch

You might have to complain to the pensioners, disabled and carers about reducing the welfare bill.


I was just making an observation about these people saying such and such a party is right wing or left wing or flapping wing. It is all in the eye of the beholder.

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#1428464 - 19/07/2017 19:26 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Mega Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 03/02/2003
Posts: 6288
Loc: Maryborough, Wide Bay, QLD
Government won’t explain why it gave $30m to Rupert Murdoch and Fox Sports

http://thenewdaily.com.au/entertainment/tv/2017/07/19/foxtel-funding-documents/

**** this. This makes me so mad. Murdoch doesn't need any more money or power.

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#1428468 - 19/07/2017 19:34 Re: Australian Politics [Re: RC]
Red Watch Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 14/03/2010
Posts: 279
Loc: Townsville
Originally Posted By: RC
Originally Posted By: Red Watch

You might have to complain to the pensioners, disabled and carers about reducing the welfare bill.


I was just making an observation about these people saying such and such a party is right wing or left wing or flapping wing. It is all in the eye of the beholder.

I was just pointing out that dole bludgers are a small part of the bill in a roundabout way I guess, that's all. I agree with the left right point you were making but you do realise there is left and right members in both parties thats why they are called centre left(ALP) and centre right (LNP).


Edited by Red Watch (19/07/2017 19:43)

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#1428470 - 19/07/2017 19:52 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Mega]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17327
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Originally Posted By: Mega
Government won’t explain why it gave $30m to Rupert Murdoch and Fox Sports

http://thenewdaily.com.au/entertainment/tv/2017/07/19/foxtel-funding-documents/

**** this. This makes me so mad. Murdoch doesn't need any more money or power.


That would be a down payment for helping them trash the NBN via the news wink
_________________________
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#1428484 - 20/07/2017 07:09 Re: Australian Politics [Re: bundybear]
BlueyZarsoff Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 14/07/2015
Posts: 98
Loc: Fountain Lakes (Sth East Melb)
Samboz , have to agree ... where is the line !!! i work with a guy who is gonna claim all he can for his young one coz his granny has 1/50th Aboriginal heritage (and he is fairer than me !!!! ) im irish/welsh .. what can i claim ???

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