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#1222095 - 25/11/2013 13:53 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7851
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Its scary enough. Whilst I don't live anywhere there are Great whites, I work on the water with tourists 300 days a year and when you spend that much time on the water you come across things you don't want to see.

I would imagine keen surfers would be out there at every chance they get down south. So if the numbers of Big Great Whites are on the increase it only increases the chances they are going to encounter things they don't want to see as well. Yeah its a scary thought and no doubt a lot of the crew that a regular surfers down there are questioning things now. Its only human to be scared of getting eaten by something in the ocean.
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#1222096 - 25/11/2013 13:54 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7851
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Yeah that Doco was awesome Jax and Brett. Well filmed, great story and very interesting to watch.
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#1222105 - 25/11/2013 14:42 Re: sharks [Re: Jax]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5096
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Originally Posted By: Jax
Yes of course Brett, we should just all stay out of the ocean now that it is filling up again with giant man eating predators. And if some giant land based predator starts attacking people, should we just all stay off the land too?


That sort of respose is one of our biggest problems. Juvenile and condecending. I never said we have to stay out of the water. Just stay out of it if you are overly concerned about beinng grabbed by a shark. Apparently humans have a really large brain and apparently it gives us the ability to make informed descisions... Apparently. My point stands though. Do you think we should do something about all the horribly dangerous trees that are contantly attacking and killing people in this country? Becasue they are far more dangerous than sharks and when they kill thhey do it for absolutely no purppose whatsoever.Going surfing or diving for abalones or having a swim is not sommething we do for suurvival. It is something we do for recreation. Should we be killing animals like this just so we can enjoy our recreation and lesuire time?

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#1222187 - 25/11/2013 20:23 Re: sharks [Re: Brett Guy]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
Call it what you will, I say it's sarcasm well deserved.

"Do you think we should do something about all the horribly dangerous trees that are contantly attacking and killing people in this country? Should we be killing animals like this just so we can enjoy our recreation and lesuire time?" [sic]

Yes Brett, absolutely we should do something about the horribly dangerous trees. In fact someone ought to be employed full time teaching them to behave in a more passive and socially acceptable fashion; And absolutely not Brett, indeed, we mere humans should expect to be killed by animals while we enjoy our recreation and leisure time...


Seriously though, the regularity of attacks here in WA is unprecedented, and it is partially the result of the ban on killing great white sharks. Researchers say their diet doesn't include mammals until they reach around 3 metres, something to do with the lack of strength in their jaw cartilage. They also say that means it's unlikely that juveniles are implicated in attacks on people.

However, employ logic and you have to assume the ban has resulted in many more great white juveniles surviving over the past 15 years than otherwise would have. And that they are all reaching maturity, now. As in now literally, now this year and now last year and now next year. And they will now begin breeding, that's what reaching maturity means. So, well yeah...interesting times ahead.

I'm all for a healthy respect for the ocean and its inhabitants. But it's becoming obvious that there needs to be discussion about how to deal with the consequences of that ban. The 'just stay out of the water if you're overly concerned' lot might rethink when the attacks are weekly and not monthly. Maybe they simply don't realise that WA is pretty much a vast, hot sand dune with an amazing water attraction at it's edge. Staying on the dune isn't really an option for most people.

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#1222262 - 25/11/2013 23:58 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18617
Loc: The Beach.
I just read a reader response to "should the WA government kill the shark?" on the ABC news site.

Out of all the responses only one said yes. Here's her response.

"Like dogs, once they have a taste for blood they have learnt something. They must be killed before they teach the rest of the pack."

Proof that sharks are smarter than certain people.

Pack of sharks? If this silly cow did her research she'd know great whites are solitary until after the kill is made. One of those who commented was a previous shark attack victim and gracefully took full responsibility for his own actions.

The shark attack was the second fatal attack in WA this year. Perspective is a wonderful thing (for those who grasp it). I wonder what WA's road toll is so far this year?

Calls for a cull are nothing more than alarmist crap. Just as is the suggestion that one must stand on a sand dune to avoid shark attacks. Great Whites do not attack in 2 foot of water which is more than enough depth to cool the numpties down whilst maintaining a vigil.

If you swim in deeper water you accept the risk. It really is that simple.
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#1222266 - 26/11/2013 00:24 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
Lol, are they putting something in the Cairns water supply? You lot seem just a bit confuddled.


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#1222267 - 26/11/2013 00:45 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18617
Loc: The Beach.
Quick Jax jump in here....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-25/your-say-shark-catch-and-kill-policy/5114738 .....and support the redneck standalone and preserve those burning dune feet (thongs might work too wink ) because WA is the only place that has heat apparently .



We manage up here despite estuarine crocodiles (no Jax they don't just live in rivers), box jellyfish cone shells, stonefish, irukandji, tiger sharks and tropical cyclones. Must be something in the water smile


Pssst your road toll stands at 144 (Nov 17th) What, no outcry from the public? Because dying to a natural predator is so much more horrendous than being cut from the wreckage of a motor vehicle after being taken out by a drink driver or some silly twat sending a text.

http://www.police.wa.gov.au/ABOUTUS/Statistics/FatalCrashStatistics/tabid/1073/Default.aspx

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"water has c.30x the heat capacity of air. Someone drop the penny please for those fixated on the notion that the atmosphere is the driver ( preferably in 3D)".

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#1222269 - 26/11/2013 01:19 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
CF, I lived over your way for a while, I know about your creatures. Although back then the government wasn't taking a zero tolerance of crocs and searching for and removing them from areas humans use. Do you support that action they are now taking?

Did I even say WA had the monopoly on hot? No, I didn't think so. I know how utterly pleasant your clear inland tropical rainforest pools can be on a hot day though, Mossman Gorge was delicious. This is clearly becoming an apples and oranges conversation where the point is being lost, completely. Road toll...that is relevant how? Oh, people dying? So why not chuck in medicine gone wrong/shooting accidents/wars/obesity/rampaging rhinos ..... These things are no more relevant than Brett's falling trees or your road toll. Sticking to the issue will be useful, yes?

This is only the beginning of the apex predator in the ocean eating human problem. It will get worse, it is already getting worse. Maybe your kid or granny or parent or sibling or friend or workmate might be the next victim.

Holy crap, I'm calling for a discussion. Is that so terrible?

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#1222281 - 26/11/2013 08:44 Re: sharks [Re: Jax]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18617
Loc: The Beach.
Originally Posted By: Jax
Do you support that action they are now taking?



Absolutely not. If they fed Newman (our useless dictator) to one I'd be a very happy man.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-08/50-years-on-rodney-fox-reflects-on-a-life-changing/5080574
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"water has c.30x the heat capacity of air. Someone drop the penny please for those fixated on the notion that the atmosphere is the driver ( preferably in 3D)".

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#1222283 - 26/11/2013 09:03 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18617
Loc: The Beach.
Originally Posted By: Jax
Do you support that action they are now taking?



I have voiced my disgust on this issue too. We all know they are there. There have been two fatal attacks in Qld in a decade. Again perspective please. One was a child who's parents owned a home on the Daintree and actually fed the crocs off their boarding jetty to promote their croc tour business. When the river flooded above the height of the jetty one of their two children decided to go for a walk to the end of it .At their request the crocodile was left alone.

The other was a man named Arthur Brooker. Google it. He made a major mistake of returing to the same spot on the bank to cast out a crab pot 5 days in a row and opted to go in waste deep to retrieve it on his final day of camping because he wanted an early start. If he'd waited until the tide went out like on previous days he'd still be with us now. His family requested the croc be spared.

...in case you missed the link

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-08/50-years-on-rodney-fox-reflects-on-a-life-changing/5080574

This guy has devoted his life to saving these creatures after being all but ripped in half by one. Good enough for him, good enough for me !

Originally Posted By: Jax
Sticking to the issue will be useful, yes?



...and the issue is that people need to take responsibility for their own actions. The sharks have been there for millions of years as have the crocs and Brett's trees and my cars are relevant .

For people who get taken out by a falling tree or wiped out by a drink driver the choice was removed from them. For people who opt to swim where there are great whites the choice is their own.

There should be no discussion. If you don't want to be eaten by a shark stay in the shallows. It is absolutely that simply. If not then man up and accept the consequences of your actions. The area where the latest attack happened has seen 3 attacks in 10 years. On those odds even I'd surf there but then I'd be requesting that should I be that bloody unlucky that they leave the shark alone !
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"water has c.30x the heat capacity of air. Someone drop the penny please for those fixated on the notion that the atmosphere is the driver ( preferably in 3D)".

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#1222287 - 26/11/2013 09:14 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
No, the issue is that this is a problem that is only just now beginning and is going to get worse. The next decade will see more numerous attacks and deaths, and the decade after that even more again. Perhaps a law will be passed to ensure humans are only allowed to wallow in the shallows like toddlers.

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#1222311 - 26/11/2013 12:38 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7851
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
I reckon we put a few in Aquariums and bait the rest with poisoned seals. lol. poke wink
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#1222313 - 26/11/2013 12:51 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7851
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
I know that surfers sitting on the surface look a bit like seals and that's why a lot of people think it is a reason they get attacked. Mistaken identity.

If you read the story linked below. Surfers saw shark on bottom, it then surfaced, came at him, attacked, circled, attacked again and ate him. The latest attack from eyewitness accounts (the guy out there) said something similar. Shark nudged him, on surface then went over and attacked other surfer.

They certainly don't sound like mistaken identity. Almost like its happening quite casually and the shark is focused on eating something. That's a scary thought. Seals don't behave like a surfer. They would be fast, agile trying to escape.

Coroner Ruling from July 2012 Ben Linden attack
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#1222337 - 26/11/2013 15:05 Re: sharks [Re: Jax]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18617
Loc: The Beach.
Originally Posted By: Jax
No, the issue is that this is a problem that is only just now beginning and is going to get worse. The next decade will see more numerous attacks and deaths, and the decade after that even more again. Perhaps a law will be passed to ensure humans are only allowed to wallow in the shallows like toddlers.


Perhaps that law should be passed because if these people are too stupid to weigh the risk and accept it they should be treated like toddlers smile

By all means go out and surf but accept the risk. There is no reason to be there other than for self serving interests. Deal with it !

As Popeye's article says they attack from beneath and this had been known for some time now. You need to be in at least moderate depth to be attacked from beneath. It still leaves plenty of room for bathing. Alternatively go and surf in areas that haven't recorded shark deaths and reduce your risk wink
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"water has c.30x the heat capacity of air. Someone drop the penny please for those fixated on the notion that the atmosphere is the driver ( preferably in 3D)".

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#1222342 - 26/11/2013 15:37 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7851
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
The attack that set this run of fatal attacks going was in 2001 - Ken Crew off Nth Cottesloe Beach got taken in waist deep water. Probably in waters were tens of thousands of beach goers happily swam with toddlers, kids and probably people who were cautious with what depth they swam in. Whilst depth does increase your chances of attack, sharks and big sharks are free to swim where ever they want. If there is food be it fish, seals, rays, dolphins and if a shark is hungry then shallow water wont stop them.

I have seen some good shallow water sharks sightings here in Broome this year. Mostly big hammerheads but up to 3-4metres in length. The missus managed to film one in the shallows. The bloke on the stand up paddle board would have been having a wild experience.

Broome Hammerhead feeding.
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#1222354 - 26/11/2013 17:01 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18617
Loc: The Beach.
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"water has c.30x the heat capacity of air. Someone drop the penny please for those fixated on the notion that the atmosphere is the driver ( preferably in 3D)".

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#1222368 - 26/11/2013 18:19 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
"Keep that on the shy I reckon"...Lol, classic comment in your line of work Popeye. Next stop Divers Camp for that paddle board guy no doubt.

It's amazing how the ocean seems to almost melt the uptight out of people. Swimming/surfing/diving/paddling around - a lot of calm, sane, balanced and happy people walk among us thanks to doing those things regularly. I say that it benefits society, and honestly don't understand the negative attitude that judges them self-serving toddlers.

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#1222382 - 26/11/2013 21:03 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5096
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
No one is saying going for a swim makes you a self-serving toddler. What makes self serving toddler is the inability to accept the consequences of ones actions. Everybody knows full well the ocean is a sharks habitat. If you then decide to enter it you do so at yoour own risk. Would you go to Iraq for a holiday? If you did I don't think yoou could really complain if something bad happened. Back to the 'tasted blood and got a taste for it issue' and 'targeting humans for food' concept. I said it before, if these sharks actually wanted to eat the victim then there would be no bodies to retrieve. The grab them and wind up rejecting them. Unfortunately for the victims sharks don't have hands.
Yes Jax, there are more mature Whites around than there used to be. That was the idea of protecting them in the first place. Doesn't mean we should reduce their numbers. Why don't we start culling dirnk drivers while we are at it. If we killed them whenever they were caught then there would be far less chance of being killed by one wouldn't there? Same concept. And so what if the next victim is a relative of ours. Why should that mean I care more. As much as I love my family and friends they are no more or less important than any potential victim.

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#1222395 - 26/11/2013 21:35 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7851
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
I personally am not for culling but at the same time they don't inhabit the waters where I live and work. They have in the past down off Perth where we ran kayaking and snorkelling tours to Seal and Penguin Island of all places lol. Looking into that deeper water down there did send shivers down my spine some days and to be honest I am glad I don't have to operate in waters where Great Whites live.

Prior to 2001 I think it was many years since the previous fatal attack. Its been a procession ever since. You have to agree that since protection the numbers of dangerous sized sharks has increased as has 3m+ crocodiles in the Nth of Australia. Hasn't Nth Qld Cairns and surrounds just introduced a trapping and removal program for dangerous crocs over 3m+. Which a lot of the Nth Qld community is supportive of and will no doubt encourage tourism and safer waterways for public use.

Although there is a lot of anti cull attention bought to alot of forums/feedback etc, it is easy for those people to comment from their armchairs and feel like their comments are the right thing to say in a world where everyone flicks off a comment at the touch of a phone/spur of the moment. I am starting to see a feeling in the communities where these attacks are happening that it's freaking them out. Making them scared. The Margaret River community and to a lesser degree the entire WA community must be feeling the pressure of wanting something to be done. What that is I don't know. Culling? Not sure.. but as Jax said I honestly think its only going to become a more regular news headline. Better stop drinking Coronas now lol.
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#1222397 - 26/11/2013 21:48 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18617
Loc: The Beach.
Most people up here DO NOT support the croc removal program. Newman's popularity is plummeting and that is but one reason why.

The crocs are a tourism draw card.
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