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#1241142 - 11/02/2014 01:19 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
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Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7772
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
I think the NSW fisheries or Qld department put those detailed reports out. I guess they are relevant sources. The numbers of fatal attacks were not on there but its easy enough to do a search on recent fatal attacks in NSW and QLD from Great whites. There are not many.
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#1241143 - 11/02/2014 01:34 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Arnost Offline
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Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3908
Exactly - there haven't been any recent fatal shark attacks at major/popular beaches that are netted or have drum lines. Netting and drum lines demonstrably works. More of it please. It's not a difficult choice between a toothy fish and a human life.
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#1241144 - 11/02/2014 01:38 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Adele Offline
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Registered: 29/12/2010
Posts: 376
Loc: Somerset TAS
An independent report by Bond University into shark nets found that “due to the environmental impacts of shark control activities, it is not recommended that either shark nets or drum-lines be introduced into Western Australia. Please find the attached report."

http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/occasional_publications/fop108.pdf

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#1241146 - 11/02/2014 01:55 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
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Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7772
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Interesting read there Adele but I don't recall WA wanting to use nets which that study seemed to focus on. There was limited info on the drum lines other than they were a successful way of catching the targeted sharks except the Bull shark. Its interesting how the article is focused on nets yet he doesn't recommend drum lines either. Why didn't he focus his study on that if that was what research is required. Is that study any use at all for the proposed WA shark program. Not really.
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#1241148 - 11/02/2014 02:02 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Jax Offline
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Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
Yep, and that is why the WA government chose not to use nets. They will be putting in 72 drum lines - there are 388? drum lines in Queensland. They took into consideration what the Bond Uni report said and went with the method that would have the least impact on non target species. It is a shame that report did not have a section specifically on drum lines, without the netting info tied into it. You can get a good idea of what it would have been though, if you read page 26 of the South African report I have linked two, maybe three times now (only a couple of pages back last time). It has details of what was caught on drums, what was caught in nets, and the release figures of both. Very little is caught on drums other than sharks, from memory four or seven catfish and a turtle. The turtle was released and lived. Not sure about the catfish. That is for one whole year. Otherwise, all sharks. No dugongs. No whales. No dolphins.

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#1241149 - 11/02/2014 02:16 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Adele Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/12/2010
Posts: 376
Loc: Somerset TAS
The report is about shark hazard mitigation with both nets and/or drum lines.

This is a direct quote in the executive summary.

"Shark Control Programs do not, as many people perceive, provide a continuous barrier that prevents access to beaches by sharks. Instead they aim to reduce the number of sharks that can potentially cause harm to humans through the use of shark meshing nets and/or drum-lines.

This is also a direct quote on page 10,
"Prior to their installation, there were 37 shark attacks (18 fatal) at NSW beaches and following installation there were 23(1 fatal)(Green et al., 2009). The rate of fatalities is highly unlikely to be a result of meshing activities, but is likely to be a function of improved beach front response time and first aid procedures."

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#1241152 - 11/02/2014 02:35 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Adele Offline
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Registered: 29/12/2010
Posts: 376
Loc: Somerset TAS
I also feel that he had to to include netting, as it is so heavily used on the east coast. I am glad nets have not been included in WA. Happier still if there was no cull at all.

Although if it could be scientifically proven that the cull would be beneficial, then I would consider it. But at the moment I feel killing the sharks are in vain with the current information available.

To be honest I am more paranoid about stingers over here than sharks. I remember getting stung by a jelly fish off Como jetty when prawning when I was a little girl, and that hurt enough. Whereas the stingers here can kill (shudder). Next thing there will be a jelly fish cull. LOL

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#1241153 - 11/02/2014 02:42 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
I think the drop from 18 fatals to 1 is pretty good evidence the nets made a difference. What time frame was that over? First aid procedures will have improved with time, but even now and with modern technology to get medical help to the scene faster than would have been possible when those nets went in is still no guarantee a life will be saved after an attack.

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#1241163 - 11/02/2014 09:18 Re: sharks [Re: Adele]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17849
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Originally Posted By: Adele

To be honest I am more paranoid about stingers over here than sharks.


That's because you haven't succumbed to the red neck hysteria about sharks.

The media are the reason these people can't fathom what the odds of 1,000,000 to 1 represent for surfers. SHAAAAAARRRRRRKKK.

If you value human life so much Arnost it may be time for you to lobby the WA premier to keep people out of the water because that's the best way to save them. Over 200 people drowned in Australia last year wink
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#1241164 - 11/02/2014 09:46 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17849
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Here's one million dots on a page. Don't forget to scroll across . There's your odds in Australian waters as a surfer according to the sport's own data. wink Don't forget to zoom in too. it's more fun that way laugh laugh


http://www.vendian.org/envelope/dir2/lots_of_dots/million_dots.html
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#1241166 - 11/02/2014 09:49 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17849
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
...and you can reduce them to zero if you play in the shallows .
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#1241197 - 11/02/2014 12:55 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
Quote:
In 2000, Perth businessman Ken Crew was killed in front of hundreds of horrified beachgoers while wading in knee-deep water off Cottesloe. Officials believe the culprit was a 13-foot great white shark.
Link


Quote:
A man has been attacked by a shark while fishing on a beach in waters that were only knee deep.

Alan Saunders was bitten on both legs by the Grey Nurse Shark off the coast of New South Wales in Australia.
Link

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#1241223 - 11/02/2014 14:54 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17849
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
LOL. He's a lucky bugger. A 13 foot shark in knee deep water would be beached wink
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#1241233 - 11/02/2014 15:55 Re: sharks [Re: ColdFront]
dlcat1 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 875
Loc: Melbourne (NE burbs)
Originally Posted By: ColdFront
Here's one million dots on a page. Don't forget to scroll across . There's your odds in Australian waters as a surfer according to the sport's own data. wink Don't forget to zoom in too. it's more fun that way laugh laugh


http://www.vendian.org/envelope/dir2/lots_of_dots/million_dots.html


It is US data, but I rather like this one. Now I don't surf so maybe that 1:1000000 would look different if I did, but right now I'd prefer my share of the public money spent on one of those top causes.

http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/injury_and_death_statistics/Documents/Injury_Facts_43.pdf

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#1241240 - 11/02/2014 16:28 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1530
Loc: Southern Victoria
Coldfront ,

I've personally seen bronze whalers BREACH not beach , themselves onto dry reef chasing salmon . They will wash up with a wave , get their target and then wait , wriggle around until the next wave washes them off .....

As for the First aid reference to more people not being killed by shark attack in the Green et el 2009 ..... welll clearly they are not talking about white sharks above 3M is size .. people surviving great white attacks , is even higher odds than general populace being attacked by all other sharks .

Even if they just bite/ mouth you , you bleed out .... and before you type Rodney Fox .... there is plenty of evidence to support that he was not bitten by a White , but infact a large Bronze Whaler .

Again your statistics are short on accuracy . There would be lucky to be 200,000 people who regularly have put themsleves within danger of Great White Attack , in the last 40 years ....
and teh deatsh are in the Dozens within that period .... so not a million to one .

And lastly , I'm pretty sure a spandex suit will stop nay potential threats from even your deadly irukandji jellyfish .
How ever , no amount of body armour short of a submarine will save you from a white bigger than 4m and getting up to 6M and the mass of a mini bus .
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#1241258 - 11/02/2014 18:15 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17849
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Glad to see you finally showed your hand S.O.

The surfing numbers are not my data. They come from the surfing bodies themselves. Even if we play your game against the evidence I linked and say 1 in 200,000 (I'd like your evidence too thanks) those are still massive odds and entirely preventable by simply finding another hobby. If you don't like the risk DON'T DO IT. Skydivers die more often than shark attack victims but we aren't out culling parachutes.

Of course I only put up the surfing stats to play the game on Jax' terms and didn't include kite surfers, snorkelers, scuba divers, swimmers ,jet ski riders etc, etc, etc,.

I wonder how the spandex will do against the crocs up here? It doesn't offer any protection from stone fish either . The point that you completely ignored is that entering the water for recreational purposes is a CHOICE and it is arrogant to believe we should kill everything in it so we can surf. Take the risk or don't.

dlct1 great link and thanks for sharing. Yes you raise a very moral point about spending $24 million on CULLING sharks when that money could be spent far more wisely elsewhere, but then curing cancer won't help tourism numbers wink Also you are playing with fire showing comparative stats. It doesn't suit the agenda for killing sharks so the kiddies can sleep at night.

As for the knee deep guy that's just plain ol' bad luck and had he stayed on land he wouldn't have gotten bitten. It really is basic stuff.


Can you please link me to the evidence that Rodney Fox was attacked by a bull shark? Silly bugger has been wrong for decades and I'd like to let him know.


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#1241405 - 12/02/2014 11:34 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
Showed your hand? Game?
Not surprised to see that language, at all. Pfft!


Edited by Jax (12/02/2014 11:39)
Edit Reason: No point trying to be delicate.

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#1241500 - 12/02/2014 16:53 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17849
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Game is language? LoL.

Maybe as you've chosen to weigh back in you can share your view on the relatives and friends of the SA attack victim requesting that the shark be left alone instead of responding on behalf of other posters?

It certainly flies in the face of the claims made here that there is an overwhelming support for the cull. The polls suggest otherwise and if the relatives and friends don't want it killed that should be respected.
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#1241533 - 12/02/2014 17:44 Re: sharks [Re: S .O.]
T_D_S Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 17/03/2013
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: S .O.



Again your statistics are short on accuracy . There would be lucky to be 200,000 people who regularly have put themsleves within danger of Great White Attack , in the last 40 years ....
and teh deatsh are in the Dozens within that period .... so not a million to one .



I ain't getting involved what this threads topic is but for the sake of statistics reputation-

regularly would be once a week and 48 is a few dozen... so, 52*40*200,000 = 416,000,000/48 = 8666666.667 or 1 in 8,000,000????


... Statistically Obtuse
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#1241638 - 13/02/2014 00:43 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17849
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Originally Posted By: Jax
Very little is caught on drums other than sharks No dugongs. No whales. No dolphins.


(my bold)

Hmmmm. Dolphins stealing baits of the drum lines have even been foul hooked through the body.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_lines

"Drum lines are also responsible for bycatch, inlcuding dolphins and sea turtles, both of which are fully protected in Australian waters."

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/drum-lines-kill-harmless-species-report-20131224-2zvtk.html
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