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#1244319 - 23/02/2014 16:42 Crocs
desieboy Offline
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Loc: Broome

Croc seen near Cable Beach on Feb 22 2014.

The main question is : Is he in transit which they have a tendency to move round at this time of the year. Especially as the water temperature rises, looking for new territory or a mating partner.



Or is he lurking around looking for a nice fair skinned tourist for a quick snack ..lol shocked
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#1244320 - 23/02/2014 16:58 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
Popeye Offline
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Registered: 30/12/2006
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Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
He is becoming more of a local Des. I know of him and photographed him a few weeks ago same big pronounced snout. I have been talking a bit with rangers and the DPaW lately and have been at various beaches when he has been swimming past. I honestly think the crowd down there yesterday was giving him an opportunity to size up people and become reasonably comfortable around people.

He is big and is happily swimming in close to shore. When I saw him at Entrance around the corner there was a little kids party with girls running around in Fairy dresses along the shore. Its just a recipe for disaster. He needs trapping. Why do you think DPaW have just invested in 2 traps this week. Because of this croc mainly in the short term due to it being only a matter of time before he takes someone. That would be devastating for tourism.
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#1244321 - 23/02/2014 17:02 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
Popeye Offline
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He has probably made up 90 percent of sightings since August when he first came on the scene. If they can get rid of him it would stop all this fear in town. 1 croc is causing everyone to think there are heaps just cruising around Broome all the time. OK there might be resident in the creeks nth and south of Broome but this one is happy to swim around Broome peninsula. I have worked on the water for 14 years now with thousands of trips out and have only ever seen a small one. They are becoming more regular but I honestly think its this one lately which is stirring the pot.
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#1244322 - 23/02/2014 17:07 Re: Crocs [Re: Popeye]
desieboy Offline
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Yep I suppose your right if there hanging around the same spots for too long they definitely need moving on.





Although at Willie creek where there is a few resident crocs we found out that as soon as you get rid of one it creates a void for others to relocate into the creek. And as we found out from experience "better the devil you know that the one you don't know."
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#1244323 - 23/02/2014 17:11 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
Brett Guy Offline
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Hardly a recipe for disaster but if he can be removed without the need to kill him. Go for it. Fact is though he isn't doing anything wrong by being a croc and is highly unlikely to attack unless someone does something VERY stupid.

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#1244324 - 23/02/2014 17:16 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
Brett Guy Offline
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Originally Posted By: desieboy

Yep I suppose your right if there hanging around the same spots for too long they definitely need moving on.







Although at Willie creek where there is a few resident crocs we found out that as soon as you get rid of one it creates a void for others to relocate into the creek. And as we found out from experience "better the devil you know that the one you don't know."




That is actually a very good point. Most people don't know but croc numbers are self regulating. Crocs by nature are very territorial and get more so the bigger they get. It is not uncommon to see several 3mt ish crocs living in fairly close proximity but very rare too see a really big croc tolerating another male in his territory. Given the different behaviours displayed by different sized crocs(ie those 3m jobs being a bit like testorone fuelled teenagers and the really big fellas being a bit like gradpa-wise, experienced and patient), I know which situation I would prefer.


Edited by Brett Guy (23/02/2014 17:17)

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#1244325 - 23/02/2014 17:19 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
desieboy Offline
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The only problem with wild crocs is that you can't really trust what their intentions really are ...after all they are man-eaters!
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#1244326 - 23/02/2014 17:20 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
Popeye Offline
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Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
I think its at the stage now where DPaW need permanent traps in Willie Creek and Dampier Creek Have Willie Creek as a catching feature. If one gets taken out then let the next move down the coast and settle in and have this area as a Northern catching feature so to speak rather than have them snooping around town. Bit like Darwin Harbour.

Its a hard subject and everyone will cry 'its their habitat' and while it is, when a kid or local or anyone gets grabbed and they find crabs seething over a dead body the next day washed up on the beach it's not going to go down well with anyone.

Broome is famous for its Beach I would hate for it to get to a stage where people started fearing the place when with a smart and well managed trapping system in place Cable beach/Broome could remain a great family and visitor holiday destination.
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#1244327 - 23/02/2014 17:29 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
Brett Guy Offline
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Originally Posted By: desieboy


The only problem with wild crocs is that you can't really trust what their intentions really are ...after all they are man-eaters!




Actually you can trust them 100%. If you give them an easy opportunity to eat you then they will. Simple as that. I love em. Worked with them day in/day out for nearly 5 years. They are an animal that is beyond amazing. But luckily easy to avoid.


Edited by Brett Guy (23/02/2014 17:29)

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#1244328 - 23/02/2014 17:29 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
desieboy Offline
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Loc: Broome

One thing that people forget or don't realise more likely, is that Broome was always crocodile territory. Have seen some great pics of the massive 5 metre plus crocs that used to call Broome home.The old pearlers used to kill them to make it safer and in the off season hunt them for their skins. I suppose they would have almost exterminated them from around this area from about 1920s to 1970.

Been in town 30 years and for the first 20 never heard of anyone seeing one around here.
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#1244329 - 23/02/2014 17:36 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
Popeye Offline
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Registered: 30/12/2006
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Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Yeah that's interesting Des.

I read a post on facebook yesterday morning before this one was sighted by authorities. Guy ran down to waters edge waded out went to dive in and this croc surfaced immediately in front of him. I think that was kind of lucky.

Because Broome is on a peninsula, on an average day in Broome I would say that there would be many hundreds of people dotted along the entire coastline at various times of day, from sunrise to well after dark, fishing, walking, boating, kayaking, swimming, spearfishing, snorkelling. And that is only February. Give it another 6 weeks at Easter and those numbers will sky rocket up. This croc if it wanted could easily have a chance at taking someone if it wanted. It makes me wonder if they are as big a man eater as what they are made out to be. But given enough opportunities which it will have here you have to worry.
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#1244330 - 23/02/2014 17:47 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
ColdFront Offline
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Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
There are two documented incidents from last year where given the choice a croc will take a dog. One was an 8 year old girl pushed aside by the croc to take the dog standing behind her and the other was caught on video here. You'll need to cut and paste the link to watch it.

There is no doubt they will take people given the chance but we are certainly not their preference. This guy in the video had a big croc go around his back to grab his dog.

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/massive-crocodile-snatches-dog/x85mydt?cpkey=9d3b7186-9f9d-4f2e-a069-3a698862be9b%257c%257c%257c%257c

Surely the question should be asked though why the clown was down at the water's edge to begin with?
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#1244331 - 23/02/2014 18:00 Re: Crocs [Re: Brett Guy]
Firepac Offline
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Originally Posted By: Brett Guy


Actually you can trust them 100%. If you give them an easy opportunity to eat you then they will. Simple as that. I love em. Worked with them day in/day out for nearly 5 years. They are an animal that is beyond amazing. But luckily easy to avoid.


I completely agree, I have also had a fair bit of experience with them over many years. A large croc, 3.5M+, has a brain the same size and shape as the last two joints on my little finger. Having such a small brain for the size of the animal means they are almost totally instinctive, and being almost totally instinctive it follows that if you understand the animals behaviour then it is almost totally predictable. An awesome amazing animal indeed.


Edited by Firepac (23/02/2014 18:01)
Edit Reason: Spulling

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#1244332 - 23/02/2014 18:06 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
ColdFront Offline
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Registered: 29/06/2008
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Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach

Indigenous people are taken mostly but they accept the risk and often swim in water holes known to contain crocs. There have been two fatal attacks in Queensland in the past couple of decades and both were easily avoidable. One was a child who walked out on a boardwalk that was submerged 30cms due to flooding on the Daintree River. Unfortunately his parents ran a croc tours business and often fed crocs where he was taken. They requested the crocs be left alone.

The second was a man named Arthur Booker who returned to the same spot on a mud boast ramp each day to set a crab pot on the Endeavour River at Cooktown over the course of several days. It was on an isolated camping ground and the ramp had only recently been pushed through the mangrove forest after approval was given by authorities.

Rather than wait for the tide to drop as he had done each other day he decided to get an early start that day on the road so placed his camera and phone up the ramp and proceeded to wade in to retrieve his pot. It was the last thing he ever did. His wife also requested the croc be spared however the decision was made to kill it .Ironically it was a relocated croc that was caught near Cairns and put there a few years earlier.

I agree there is a certain amount of risk in heavily built up areas but the areas Newman is removing crocs from in Cairns is absolutely ridiculous. Taking crocs out of our waterways will be detrimental to the health of those systems. Take the crocs out and you'll have an explosion in catfish numbers which in turn devour fingerling species that ultimately end up on the reef.

Education is the key.
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#1244333 - 23/02/2014 18:50 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
desieboy Offline
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Loc: Broome

Last time they set a croc trap at Willie creek they caught the largest catfish I've ever seen about 170cms long but no croc. When the tide went out it was still seen hanging from the bait.

Never forget when I used to live out there a few years back I was cleaning some fish near the bottom of the landing ,as I was finishing up I turned around to see a 3 metre croc with his head above the water eyeing me off.

Later I realised I done 2 things wrong:

1. I had my back facing the water.
2. Cleaning the fish near the waters edge and throwing the guts in the creek.

As I was out there by myself at the time and no one else around I would have disappeared and nobody would have known what happened to me. cry
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#1244334 - 23/02/2014 19:23 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
ColdFront Offline
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Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
I remember reading this article the day it was originally printed back in the mid '80's.. It's one of those things that sticks in your mind many years on.



Taken by a crocodile


As told to Michelle Hamer
January 12, 2004







Philosopher Val Plumwood survived a crocodile attack while paddling in a canoe in Kakadu nine years ago.

"I was in a canoe on a side channel of the East Alligator River in Kakadu, looking for an Aboriginal rock art site. I had been out the previous day and it had been idyllic. This day began with drizzle, which progressed into torrential rain. By early afternoon I had a strong feeling of being watched and suddenly the canoe seemed flimsy. I had a sense of danger or vulnerability and decided I wanted to go back.

I started paddling back down the channel and hadn't got far when I saw what looked like a stick ahead of me. As I was swept towards it I saw eyes and realised it was a crocodile.

I was almost past it when there was this great blow on the side of the canoe. I paddled furiously but it followed, bashing on the canoe. I looked for a place to get out, but couldn't see one. I felt sheer terror. I saw a tree growing from the water near the bank and thought maybe I could leap into it. I got ready to jump and as I did so, the crocodile came up close. I looked straight into its eyes and it looked straight into mine. It had beautiful golden-flecked eyes. I remember those vividly.

I did the thing you're advised to do, to try to look fearsome: I waved my arms and shouted. It might work with tigers but it doesn't work with crocodiles.

Then I jumped, but it got me in mid jump. I saw this blur, a flash of teeth and water as it grabbed me between the legs and took me down for a death roll. I thought: "I'm not food, I'm a human being; I don't believe this."

There was searing pain, but the worst thing was the roll, which seemed to last forever. It pushes water in your lungs and it felt like my arms and legs were coming off. When it finished, my head came clear of the water and I coughed the water out of my lungs and started to howl with pain. Then the crocodile pushed me into the second death roll.

We came up again, and this time right next to me was a big, solid, branch so I grabbed on to it. I hung on grimly, thinking I'd sooner let it tear me apart than go through another death roll.

Then, suddenly, I felt the pressure relax and realised the crocodile had let go. I tried again to jump into the tree. This time it grabbed me around the leg - the upper left thigh, which was badly damaged.

It took me down for a third death roll. Again I thought I was going to die. I just thought it was going to take a long time over it, which seemed worse than having it kill me straight out.

But a minute later it let me go, again. I gave up on the tree and tried to throw myself at the mud bank. After several tries, I got to the top and stood up and couldn't believe it; I was still alive. It was an incredible rush of elation. Because I was still in danger, I flopped away, finding my leg was in bad shape. I had shock right through my body and was feeling pretty sick; I tried lying down but felt worse, so continued to walk back in the direction of the ranger's station. I felt just a glimmer of hope that I might survive.

The rain was still torrential and it took me hours to reach the lagoon between me and the ranger station. At this stage, I started to black out and had to crawl. But then the rain stopped and it was still, abnormally still, and so the ranger heard me shouting.

Then I had a 13-hour trip to Darwin hospital. I almost lost the leg in hospital but I recovered after almost a month in intensive care and another month of skin grafts.

It was really a life-changing event for me. Those final experiences have an incredible intensity - that's why they have such a life-changing power. You see things at that point which you wouldn't normally see; it strips away a lot of your illusions about life and death. It was quite a while before I took in the full extent of how it changed my way of looking at the world. It left me with a strong sense of gratitude about being alive, which has faded but never really gone, and a feeling that life is not to be wasted.

The experience also changed my overall theoretical outlook and had a big impact on the direction of my work. It forced me to rethink a lot of things - life, death, being human, and being food. Before the crocodile, I wrote about the value of nature, but after the crocodile, I started writing about how we see ourselves as outside nature, about the power of nature and our illusions that we can control it, that we're not embodied beings and are apart from other animals.

During the encounter I had a sense that it was all a dream, that it wasn't really happening. But I now think it's ordinary life and consciousness that is the dream. We don't understand ourselves as ecological beings that are part of the food chain - we're still fighting that knowledge.

During the attack, it seemed as if I'd entered a parallel universe where I didn't count for anything, I was just a piece of meat. So I've had to develop a different idea of eating and being food, where we must honour our food and the more-than-food that all of us are, including other life forms. I don't believe we do this when we treat other animals as no more than food.

It also changed my view of death. I used to be a conventional atheist, thinking that you live your life and the story ends completely with death, that there's nothing at all after that, no immaterial world you go on to without your body. Now I still think there's no other world, but I don't think the story ends with your death. The story passes on to the other life forms you nurture with your death, nurturing those who have nurtured you, in a chain of mutual life-giving."
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#1244335 - 23/02/2014 19:33 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
ColdFront Offline
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Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
I should add that in a rather cruel twist she died of snake bite many years later.
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#1244336 - 23/02/2014 19:38 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
desieboy Offline
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Loc: Broome


Yes Cold Front scary account of a crocodile attack and stalking and remember seeing her on sixty minutes I think it was, relating to it .Croc grabbed her in the crotch ..ouch

That could put you off kayaking in the Top End creeks and rivers that's for sure.
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#1244337 - 23/02/2014 20:10 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
ColdFront Offline
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Registered: 29/06/2008
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Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Yeah that is a shortened and cleaned up version of her original account. Part of her crotch was crushed and she used a jacket or similar to cover her wounds so she couldn't see them. The leg injury was even worse.

An amazing story of survival and they put her survival down to her high fitness levels.
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#1244338 - 23/02/2014 20:13 Re: Crocs [Re: desieboy]
Firepac Offline
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This may be a little pedantic but I dislike the term 'death roll' It is not a death roll insomuch as it is not primarily designed to kill although death is often the result. It is actually a feeding roll. A crocodile can't chew so it has to bite off chunks of meat that it can swallow. To do this it bites its prey puncturing the flesh with its teeth then spins to tear off a suitable size mouthful.

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