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#1249399 - 16/03/2014 14:50 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Love to see you move on rain gauge. Express your thoughts, respect others thoughts rather than attack others and I don't see a problem. cheers
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#1249401 - 16/03/2014 14:51 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
rain gauge Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/02/2006
Posts: 4556
Loc: Gorokan NSW 4klm West of the ...
I'll bow out of this conversation until I see an intelligent post..
Have a nice day.
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#1249403 - 16/03/2014 15:04 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
rain gauge Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/02/2006
Posts: 4556
Loc: Gorokan NSW 4klm West of the ...
This brings me to the final and most important fact that is being ignored by commentators and the media who are hungry to publish any tiny rumor, theory, or fantasy that crops up without reference to real knowledge or even the most basic of calculations. The area in which this aircraft may have impacted is vast, huge, enormous. Thousands and thousands of square kilometres of featureless ocean. A quick wiz around in a few aircraft will not turn turn up anything unless the aircraft went down very very close to that initial search point. Beyond that you need to assemble considerable assets, personnel who are trained in SAR observation, model and plan the search area, gather data from disparate and convoluted sources, establish probabilities to prioritise the use of those assets allowing for range and capability (FLIR, surface scatter radar, night vision etc) collate, analyis, verify, plot and confirm each and every bit of information reported from every flight, every report from non search sources, and then task surface assets to the most promising of those possible sightings. This takes time, regardless of how many a/c, ships, submarines, satellites, dirigibles, drones, or whatever you have at your disposal. Aircraft can cover large areas but often miss things due to their speed over the ground and safe operating height. Ships and boats collect more accurate detail in their search paths but are much slower to cover a given area, and the width of their "swath" is much narrower. Add further to the equation the fact that this area of ocean already contains considerable debris and rubbish, litter, flood and storm debris, has considerable small vessel and non reporting traffic, has widely varying weather and visibility conditions, sea surface states, strong currents, crosses several international borders and national areas of responsibility and duristriction and you can see how finding some floating seat cushions, luggage, flotsam and jetsam, spread over a wide or small area, and all of this over an ever increasing search field, is not a simple, easy or quick task. We will find this aircraft, and we will likely find the CVR and FDR if
the water is mostly shallow.(50 to 100mts). But it will take time and maybe quite a long time if its deeper We have to be patient, methodical, and only deal with the established and verified facts, not the wild speculation of the media and commentariat. We need to do this out of respect for the people who have lost friends and family and who must be having the most terrible time...
That is all


Edited by rain gauge (16/03/2014 15:08)
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June Rain. 127.5mm
YTD-557.1
2018 rainfall-1125.1mm





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#1249408 - 16/03/2014 15:15 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
rain gauge Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/02/2006
Posts: 4556
Loc: Gorokan NSW 4klm West of the ...
also to ad to that The black boxes do transmit a homing signal. The models aboard a 777 do so for up to 60 days. These signals are of two kinds. The first is an RF signal around 200mhz, and the second is an acoustic "ping". However the signals are not particularly powerful and the RF component will not travel through seawater. Only very low RF frequencies travel any distance under water and require and extremely long antenna, not practical for a black box. Hence the acoustic 'ping' for finding wreckage under water. This acoustic signal will travel some distance under water but not a great distance. (Detectable at maybe 5-10 km depending on the amount of background noise, temperature layers, what other debris are on top of it etc. It is only detectable from on or under the water and can not be heard from the air or satellite. It is a "last mile" location device. Therefore the idea of "homing in" on the black boxes is fallacious until you are fairly close and can do a fine grid search, with the right specialised equipment... All this information came from an aviation friend of mine.


Edited by rain gauge (16/03/2014 15:17)
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June Rain. 127.5mm
YTD-557.1
2018 rainfall-1125.1mm





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#1249420 - 16/03/2014 16:09 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
desieboy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/12/2002
Posts: 3838
Loc: Broome

Ok r g Your done a bit of good research and that's a lot of information about the search for the aircraft wherever it may be, (nothing that I didn't know already though).

But still doesn't tell us much or anything about what may of happened to the plane ??

"And that's what we are are talking about"
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#1249422 - 16/03/2014 16:31 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
You sometimes wonder if only 239 people were on the plane in situations like this. Sure the pilot had a few issues and the 2 fake passports made people initially scream terrorism but I wonder what levels authorities can go to detect if anyone else entered the plane on ground level. They may never be able to know.

To me gaining access via ground crew, would make getting on board a lot easier, accessing the planes electricals and carrying onboard what ever supplies they needed rather than going through the terminal.
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#1249425 - 16/03/2014 16:35 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
If the profiling of the pilots, cabin staff and passengers comes up with zip then you would have to think could there be anyone else on board. Late night flight, busy airport, on ground security would have its security breach potentials.
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#1249426 - 16/03/2014 16:36 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744

Okay, about these guys supposedly travelling on stolen passports...any ideas about why this pic is (so obviously) photo-shopped? The media around the world ran with this picture but none (that I'm aware of) mentioned the sloppy crop and paste.



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#1249434 - 16/03/2014 17:10 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
desieboy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/12/2002
Posts: 3838
Loc: Broome

Jax I have seen that mentioned a few days back in the media about it being the same legs but not sure where...
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#1249437 - 16/03/2014 17:24 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
I'm not surprised someone noticed Desieboy, but I am surprised it hasn't rated much of a mention (that I'm aware of anyway). Were they asking questions where you saw it, such as why did the Malaysian's offer up such an obviously photoshopped image of two persons of interest? I think authorities decided these two guys were not involved (I might be wrong about that though), but that doesn't make the dodgey image thing go away.

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#1249447 - 16/03/2014 18:09 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: Jax]
desieboy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/12/2002
Posts: 3838
Loc: Broome

Yes I know it is a bit average that they would such a sloppy job when all the eyes of the world are looking at you. That whole thing seemed a bit strange and still does ...hopefully they fix up the passport loopholes soon.
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Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get.
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#1249551 - 17/03/2014 14:02 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
desieboy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/12/2002
Posts: 3838
Loc: Broome

This is a bit of what happened to the plane so ...or that's what has been reported....

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Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get.
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#1249581 - 17/03/2014 16:33 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 4553
Loc: Brisbane
The more I hear about this the more I'm willing to consider that maybe their are hostage negotiations already taking place which are being kept from the public perhaps as part of the demands of whoever took the plane.

The failure of the Malaysian government to share key information at vital stages when it would have certainly been relevant to any search operations seems almost inexpicable otherwise.
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This post and any other post by Locke is NOT an official forecast & should not be used as such. It's just my opinion & may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, refer to Australian Bureau of Meteorology products.

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#1249604 - 17/03/2014 18:17 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
desieboy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/12/2002
Posts: 3838
Loc: Broome

Yes totally agree Locke there is a lot more going on than meets the eye and being told about the whole affair.
It seems intriguing what has been announced then contradicted the next day by the Malaysian government so they must have their reasons otherwise someone else would have maybe taken over the whole search etc by now.

Suddenly the Chinese aren't saying anything about it either ..the mind boggles.. confused crazy
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Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get.
- Mark Twain

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#1249606 - 17/03/2014 18:24 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 4553
Loc: Brisbane
Yes. If there were delicate behind the scenes hostage negotiations occurring it might explain a lot although having said this it does begin to sound a little like a crackpot conspiracy theory.
_________________________
This post and any other post by Locke is NOT an official forecast & should not be used as such. It's just my opinion & may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, refer to Australian Bureau of Meteorology products.

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#1249608 - 17/03/2014 18:29 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23724
Loc: Townsville
Im betting at the moment the passengers are alive and are in the middle east.
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#1249634 - 17/03/2014 21:29 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Nerd65 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 446
Loc: Cranbrook, Townsville
One piece of technology that I haven't seen mentioned regarding this unfortunate event is HF over the horizon radar (OHR). Australia operates such a system and although the area around Malaysia is at the extremity of its coverage detection of aircraft in this area wouldn't be out of the question. The actual range at any time would vary due to ionospheric propagation conditions. It would be no surprise if China and India also had OHR's.
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#1249677 - 18/03/2014 00:01 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Interesting blog article on shadowing across asia into potential landing points.

MH370 shadowing another 777 through radars.
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#1249679 - 18/03/2014 00:12 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Highly unlikely but how likely is it to pass over several countries without detection without some form of disguise.

It would be sad to have it ditched into a remote part of the ocean but it seems likely that is what has occurred. I just cant see it remaining hidden somewhere. To pull that off would be a miracle.
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#1249706 - 18/03/2014 11:01 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
rain gauge Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/02/2006
Posts: 4556
Loc: Gorokan NSW 4klm West of the ...
I think it's most likely the plane is in a million pieces on the ocean floor...Trouble is which ocean floor.
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June Rain. 127.5mm
YTD-557.1
2018 rainfall-1125.1mm





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