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#1270418 - 19/07/2014 07:30 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
And the reason the pro russian seperatists are labled terrorists is because the ukranian govt want to link their fight with the wider struggle against terroriism. Not because they are actually terrorists. Like them or hate them ( and I hate them) they are freedom fighters. Anyway. Regardless of that fact it is a tragic circumstance that can only cause more trouble in the long run with russia and its nutjob leader.

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#1270419 - 19/07/2014 07:31 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 4553
Loc: Brisbane
Both the US and Russia in the past, equipped with the best technology available, have shot down commercial airliners that weren't flying through a war zone.

This plane was taking the cheapest option in flying through an active war zone that other airlines were avoiding. They flew over an area where military aircraft had been routinely shot down in the days preceding.

I would suggest this is a case where poorly trained military forces have been provided with equipment that they were not adequately trained to use to the extent they could correctly identify a military from civilian target.

That in a case like this, some would suggest this was an intentional act, based on as yet limited available evidence shows the extent of prejudice some people still carry. It is horrendous allegation to make and surely not justified based on what is known at this point.

I think the worst accusation that might be made at this point is that the plane was clearly shot down and those responsible have not admitted their error. This might cause me to think it was rebel separatists using weaponry from the russians who had previously denied providing such support.
_________________________
This post and any other post by Locke is NOT an official forecast & should not be used as such. It's just my opinion & may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, refer to Australian Bureau of Meteorology products.

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#1270420 - 19/07/2014 07:47 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Pretty much bang on Locke. I know a lot of people probably think that given what has transpired the language used to describe the incident is not really all that important. In my opinion however it is the most important thing at the moment. Calling it terrorism is basically accusing putin of intentionally shooting down civilian aircraft and that can only lead to further trouble. Language is massively important in a situation like this.

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#1270452 - 19/07/2014 13:14 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
desieboy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/12/2002
Posts: 3838
Loc: Broome

One is for sure we can call it a terrible act whether done intentionally or not .Thoughts go to the friends and relatives of the ones who lost there lives.
_________________________
Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get.
- Mark Twain

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#1270454 - 19/07/2014 13:32 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: Locke]
KevD Offline
Occasional Visitor

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 5236
Loc: Bellingen NSW 2454
Originally Posted By: Locke

I would suggest this is a case where poorly trained military forces have been provided with equipment that they were not adequately trained to use to the extent they could correctly identify a military from civilian target.

Just one app on their smartphones could have prevented this - if I can look up at a plane above me and identify it using a freely available app why can't they? Appreciate it is not going to identify military aircraft but should at least identify the civilian ones?

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#1270455 - 19/07/2014 15:01 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: KevD]
duckweather Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 20/12/2010
Posts: 2769
Loc: Wantirna, Vic
My heart and prayers go to those who have lost family and friends in this terrible incident.
I thank god my nephew got home safely. We have just discovered that two of his friends, who he was on holidays with in Europe last week, weren't so lucky. They were taken by this tragedy. We, as with many others, are stunned at the moment.

Duck.

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#1270467 - 19/07/2014 17:41 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: KevD]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 4553
Loc: Brisbane
Originally Posted By: Bello Boy
Originally Posted By: Locke

I would suggest this is a case where poorly trained military forces have been provided with equipment that they were not adequately trained to use to the extent they could correctly identify a military from civilian target.

Just one app on their smartphones could have prevented this - if I can look up at a plane above me and identify it using a freely available app why can't they? Appreciate it is not going to identify military aircraft but should at least identify the civilian ones?


Plenty of places in Australia where you couldn't do that with your smart phone.
_________________________
This post and any other post by Locke is NOT an official forecast & should not be used as such. It's just my opinion & may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, refer to Australian Bureau of Meteorology products.

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#1270470 - 19/07/2014 18:39 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
KevD Offline
Occasional Visitor

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 5236
Loc: Bellingen NSW 2454
Fair enough, but not so many in Eastern Europe. Guess the rather glib point I was trying to make was that there is so much technology out there now that can identify aircraft it is astonishing someone could make this mistake.... Unless they are so battle hardened they simply do not care.

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#1270484 - 19/07/2014 21:51 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Maxim_you Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 19/06/2014
Posts: 62
Loc: Russia
It is a shame to me with our government which secretly delivers to terrorists the weapon from which killed innocent people

I hope that Putin and his terrorists will go to the Hague and will incur fair punishment.

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#1270568 - 20/07/2014 15:56 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
No point you being ashamed Maxim. Not your fault. But I have to admit Putin is a worry from what can see. Always has been. It's not so much giving te rebels the weapons that bothers me it is more that it seems like he has almost single handedly started this war himself for some unknown reason.

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#1270599 - 21/07/2014 07:54 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Locke Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 4553
Loc: Brisbane
Saw on the news this morning that MH17 was 2000ft below and North of its planned flight path when shot down. Unconfirmed reports are that the pilot had discussed being shadowed by several military fighter jets shortly before it was shot down.

Meanhwhile, Qantas, British Airways and Air France had all been avoiding flying over the area in question before this tragedy occurred.

Still a lot of unanswered questions and plenty of people leaping to conclusions before were a long way from having all the facts to hand.
_________________________
This post and any other post by Locke is NOT an official forecast & should not be used as such. It's just my opinion & may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. For official information, refer to Australian Bureau of Meteorology products.

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#1270603 - 21/07/2014 08:36 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23724
Loc: Townsville
Without the box...it will be hard.

Politics wont find the truth
_________________________
2015/16 Storms
13 Storms 2500km travelled

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#1270611 - 21/07/2014 10:19 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Things Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/11/2009
Posts: 8400
Loc: Blair Athol, SA
Only truth politics will find is how useless they all are wink

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#1270622 - 21/07/2014 11:28 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
If it turns out it was mistaken identity by the rebels then the black box wouldnt reveal much anyway. On the other hand if there is something more sinoster at play then no wonder it has dissapeared.

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#1270624 - 21/07/2014 11:56 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23724
Loc: Townsville
Can at least prove flight level.

Can find out if the pilots did in fact notice they may have been followed by fighter jets moments before as per a possible rumour.

Will also see if the pilots had any warning in the seconds before impact. All important parts of a investigation.
_________________________
2015/16 Storms
13 Storms 2500km travelled

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#1270625 - 21/07/2014 12:00 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Dawgggg Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 25/03/2007
Posts: 23724
Loc: Townsville
There should be no reason to take the black box. So why may they be trying to hide it?
_________________________
2015/16 Storms
13 Storms 2500km travelled

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#1270631 - 21/07/2014 12:34 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Dawoodman Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 14/03/2010
Posts: 1271
Loc: Thoopara; Prossie/ Bayswater
Qantas had altered its course a while ago, people should quit the negativity on Malaysian Airlines. This is an airline now struggling to stay afloat financially due to the MH370 saga, This justifies why the airline may choose the cheaper option. Secondly, the movement both vertically and its drift to the north suggest that is was told to make room to avoid traffic (It was still a busy corridor) and that there were better conditions to the north. Big difference if you are in the jet stream or not or on the particular side of a High or Low. Pilots do this quite often as there is generally reward and praise for saving fuel.

The stars lined up that day to doom MH017

It doesn't help that Russia paint its cargo planes white.

And people need to be sceptical of anything Ukraine, the rebels or Russia say; espionage and the backwards and forwards slander the people will make both sides seem as guilty.

I wouldn't be ashamed Maxim. almost every weapon in that part of the world will be Russian made or linked to russia. Russia gave the rebels the means to fight for a cause. America gave Al qaeda the means to carry out much of it's atrocities. Russia didn't press the button (If it turns out the rebels did it)
_________________________
The storms are always beyond the horizon, behind the trees or parting above your head

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#1270645 - 21/07/2014 15:00 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Mick10 Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/11/2001
Posts: 25465
Loc: Kirwan, Townsville - NQld.
Malaysian Airlines is a government run airline. Surely the Malaysian Government will stick by it. After the incident earlier in the year the public would have been just getting over that one before this one had occured.
One must certainly feel for the employees of the airline. they have lost workmates and friends, both incidents this year have certainly not been the fault of the airline.
_________________________
Kirwan, Townsville Nth Qld -
June 2019 total - 27.8mm (21.2mm)
July 2019 total - 0.0mm (14.9mm)
2019 Yearly total to date - 2049.9mm (1129mm)

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#1270669 - 21/07/2014 18:33 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: Dawgggg]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5159
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Originally Posted By: Trav dawwggg
There should be no reason to take the black box. So why may they be trying to hide it?


Like I said if there is something more sinister to hide (like the possible fighter planes you are talking about) then there is a lot of reason to take it. Even it is still just a mistaken identity case the Russians will look at it to check if there is anything incriminating which is probably unlikely but if there is it won't be returned until t is wiped that's for sure.

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#1270675 - 21/07/2014 19:57 Re: Aviation, Flying, and your flying / travel experiences & photos / movies... [Re: tornadochaser_76]
Mick10 Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/11/2001
Posts: 25465
Loc: Kirwan, Townsville - NQld.
surely the pilots would have reported being tracked by fighter jets. no reports from ATC of anything like that or any distress call at all.
_________________________
Kirwan, Townsville Nth Qld -
June 2019 total - 27.8mm (21.2mm)
July 2019 total - 0.0mm (14.9mm)
2019 Yearly total to date - 2049.9mm (1129mm)

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