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#1306918 - 11/02/2015 00:06 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17197
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
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#1306962 - 11/02/2015 12:34 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Mick10 Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/11/2001
Posts: 24701
Loc: Kirwan, Townsville - NQld.
just had Labor Kim Robert Carr blasting the current government on Sky News for failing South Australia, its workers and the nation in failing to deliver a submarine program. saying this country is an island nation that needs to have a decent ship building program.

what Senator Carr fails to tell the people is that Labor took $16b from the Defence budget while in power. Now money has to be put back into that budget to pay for the ships and this submarine programes while the Libs take the heat on not enough money for a proper pay rise for ADF personal. Labor put the submarine program on the back burner and failed to do anything on it. The air warfare destroyer program is 4 years behind schedule costing an extra $700 million dollars. Why? because the Australian ship building productivity rate is twice as slow as other ship builders around the world. And now labor as the galle to come out and blast this government. A journo asked the Senator what did Labor do while in government? His response is that they took due diligence and care and proper consultation before loosing government (so its ok for Labor to do it, but not the Liberals?). Of course after stumbling through that answer he cut the press conference and walked away.

Not a single Navy ship was completed in the 6 years of Labor government. Not one. of course under Labor it was ok to recycle old UK Navy ships and bring them here instead of building them in Australia (aka HMAS Choules). But lets not get too picky about which government is allowed to have ships built here and those that arent.
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April 2017 total - 12.2mm (62mm)
May 2017 total - 177.6mm (32mm)
2017 Yearly total to date - 692.8mm (1122mm)

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#1306964 - 11/02/2015 13:00 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17197
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
You need to get over it Mick. Labor are not in government. Perhaps it would have been wiser for Abbott not to sign off on $14 billion of problem plagued F22 raptors all in one hit? Labor are not in government and do not hold the balance of power in the senate . Barely any of the Coalition's budget measures are being approved in their original form so NO, they haven't past many of their measures they announced in May last year Mick. That is tripe. They have had to water down much of it to get it through because it was fundamentally unfair. How many more shots will they take at medicare? Where is Abbott's "signature" PPL scheme. This government has been a disaster. Hence the spill. Though I must say I am happy with the outcome. Turnbull would hav kept this government in for another few years at least .ABbott will bring it down so leave him where he is.

Look over there >>> >>>> >>> labor made us do it. Labor this, labor that.

I'd have thought the state election here would have shown the LNP and its supporters that Australians are sick to death of this atrocious government blaming labor for everything. The game is up.

Oh and Abbott took a promise to build subs in Adelaide to the election. You know what a promise is yeah Mick? No cuts to the ABC or SBS. No new taxes. No cuts to child care. No changes to superannuation. No deals with independents.
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#1306970 - 11/02/2015 13:41 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Mick10 Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/11/2001
Posts: 24701
Loc: Kirwan, Townsville - NQld.
we have been through this before CF. The long list of lingering pains from the previous government are still in effect today. very easy to sit there and that Labor are not longer in government but if you spent every day of your working life trying to fix up other peoples mistakes then i am sure you would be faily critical of that person. and for the record, Labor and the Greens vote together, any fool can see that, which means Labor and the Greens hold the majority in the senate.

now if you read my above post i was critical of labor becuase they failed to look ahead and preplan for the submarines in their two terms. now this government is stuck in a situation of having to play catch up from the previous government and being blasted for it now by the people who didnt deliver. Now you are crictial of abbott for thinking ahead 4 years (before the jets are built) and solving RAAF's aircraft abilities for the next 35 years?

obviously going by what you are saying abbott should just say stuff it, i will wait for another government to take care it. then we can blame them for not doing anything about it now.

BTW, the $14b price tag is over the 35 year life time period of the jets. and the RAAF pilots who fly the things from what i read are very happy with the purchase.
_________________________
Kirwan, Townsville Nth Qld -
April 2017 total - 12.2mm (62mm)
May 2017 total - 177.6mm (32mm)
2017 Yearly total to date - 692.8mm (1122mm)

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#1306971 - 11/02/2015 13:45 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17197
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Lingering pain. Mwhahaha. Spill anyone? Let me guess, it's because of labor's mistakes that 39 LNP back benchers think Abbott is a tosser?

Hockey's budget has been an unmitigated disaster. How did blaming labor work out for the Queensland LNP? I am hearing that Labor will be invited to form government "any minute now". I bet that cuts through the tories like a knife through butter having lost the unlosable Queensland election. For 74 seats to a wipe out after just one term.


Now how's that blame the other guy rubbish working out for them?


...and what catch up Mick? Good government only started yesterday according to Abbott. No wonder they are playing catch up. The world's leading economists claim Labor handled the GFC the best of any western country and that our Debt to GDP is one of the lowest (the lowest in developed countries). They are envious of our position but the tories know best.


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#1306981 - 11/02/2015 14:56 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Mick10 Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/11/2001
Posts: 24701
Loc: Kirwan, Townsville - NQld.
nice graph. always nice to look at the present and not think 20 years ahead. never mind that over the next 5 years our debt growth is forecast to grow at one of the highest of those countries listed above. so while it still remains low "compared to other countries" (but who really cares where their debt goes) what happens 20 years down the track?

i am sure 10 years back greece and italy were saying "eh we will be right". the loss of the QLD LNP government was terribly bad, just as bad as Labors loss 3 years earlier but in reverse!! lol. what happens in Qld in the next 3 years will be interesting, good luck to Labor (when they get started) on trying to fix the problems. for the sake of this state i hope we get a stable government.

but election losses, leadership spills and peoples opinions do not solve the overall issue this country has and will continue to have. Labor tried to get into surpus but failed. the libs are trying to do the same thing but more aggressibly because obviously the way labor tried didnt work. so its pretty obvious that both sides admit something has to be done. but this is the government making the tough decisions now before its too late. i guess the Australian resevere bank governors warning means nothing?

if you are happy to continue to paying a billion a month to a foreign bank making them richer instead of putting that money into our education or defence, or the NBN or the NDIS, or welfare then that is fine. just keep thinking the way you do.
_________________________
Kirwan, Townsville Nth Qld -
April 2017 total - 12.2mm (62mm)
May 2017 total - 177.6mm (32mm)
2017 Yearly total to date - 692.8mm (1122mm)

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#1306984 - 11/02/2015 15:00 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17197
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
Funny you should mention "Make them richer". That's exactly what Newman's asset sales would have done.
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#1307001 - 11/02/2015 17:23 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
bundybear Offline
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Registered: 28/12/2010
Posts: 2005
Loc: Between Bundy and Gladstone
Did I mention that the govt could cut wasteful spending?

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/dont-menti...7-1227215960658

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#1307011 - 11/02/2015 18:19 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Mick10 Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/11/2001
Posts: 24701
Loc: Kirwan, Townsville - NQld.
another measure passes the senate while the government is "on a gap year" according to Labor. funny that this is one of the pieces of legislation that labor actually legislated while in power but didnt introduce and have been blocking since the last election. Now the cross benches have backed it. and the funding comes out of big business, another criticism towards the government (that its supports big business) that Labor has been trying to block.

But wait >>>>>>> look over there, we cant blame Labor for it can we??
Shock horror that the Greens tried to block it as well, who would have thought?

"THE government has achieved its first budget win for the year, gaining Senate assent for a $1.4 billion cut to research tax incentives for large companies that was originally proposed by Labor in last year’s budget but then opposed following the change of government.

Finance Minister Mathias Cormann won the support of six crossbench senators for the bill, which puts a cap of $100 million on the amount of research and development spending that can be claimed by big companies under an incentive scheme that involves the government footing 40 per cent of the bill.

The $1.4bn savings over the next four years will come from about 25 large companies."

"But the policy was never legislated even though Labor kept it as part of its policy costings all the way to the September 2013 election.

After the election Labor reversed its position to oppose the savings.

Joe Hockey and Senator Cormann yesterday said the changes were “sensible” because small and medium companies would get a concession."

http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthreads.php/topics/1307001/Re_Australian_Politics#Post1307001
_________________________
Kirwan, Townsville Nth Qld -
April 2017 total - 12.2mm (62mm)
May 2017 total - 177.6mm (32mm)
2017 Yearly total to date - 692.8mm (1122mm)

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#1307041 - 11/02/2015 20:25 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 17197
Loc: Wide Bay..Near the beach
You know people on the right are getting desperate when they started borrowing your sarcasm.

Recently you were blaming labor for stopping the budget measures. Now you're telling the government passed legislation today? Which is it Mick?

Not sure what you don't understand but I'll say it again. Labor do not hold the balance of power in the senate !! The legislation that has been blocked because it was UNFAIR...
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#1307049 - 11/02/2015 21:37 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
AKM80 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 11/10/2011
Posts: 519
Loc: Marian, QLD
From what I and almost everyone else can see, the government is unable to get anything through because both sides aren't out to better the country, they are out to oppose anything the "other" puts forward just because they can! Both sides are pathetic......I don't think Tony has done a bad job considering what he has been up against.

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#1307078 - 12/02/2015 09:35 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Mick10 Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/11/2001
Posts: 24701
Loc: Kirwan, Townsville - NQld.
Originally Posted By: ColdFront
Recently you were blaming labor for stopping the budget measures. Now you're telling the government passed legislation today? Which is it Mick?

wasnt it you that said labor are doing what the libs did in opposition, now they have to go to PUP to pass legislation?

i think you answered your own question.

And as i said, Labor and the Greens vote together. So together they hold the balance. They have more votes than the coalition does.

i appreciate what you are saying though CF. i am critical of Labor blocking budget savings measures that they themselves introduced. i dont expect labor and the greens to approve of everything, that would negate the purposes of an opposition and the purpose of having two houses for debate. but when bill shorten admits that savings have to be made but then Labor continue to block their own savings measures thats when i get angry. they are doing it to be obstructionists and not for the benefit of the country.
_________________________
Kirwan, Townsville Nth Qld -
April 2017 total - 12.2mm (62mm)
May 2017 total - 177.6mm (32mm)
2017 Yearly total to date - 692.8mm (1122mm)

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#1307109 - 12/02/2015 13:35 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
desieboy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/12/2002
Posts: 3105
Loc: Broome
I think its about time Australia changed its political arena so constructive desicions and consensuses are made on relevant issues and acted upon.

All this bickering between the political parties is soooo negative and does not reflect well on our political status at home or overseas not to mention it constipates the governing of the country.

Clearly this system we have at the moment is absolutely outdated and is a pile of crap.

The whole system needs to be revamped so this country has a relevant ,valid government before its too late.

Surely we all need and want to go ahead as a whole and build something we can be proud of for now and the future for this beautiful nation we call Australia. wink

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#1307135 - 12/02/2015 15:30 Re: Australian Politics [Re: desieboy]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
Originally Posted By: desieboy
Clearly this system we have at the moment is absolutely outdated and is a pile of crap.

The whole system needs to be revamped so this country has a relevant ,valid government before its too late.


I understand that you (along with many others!) have some serious issues with the current system. I think it's very easy to focus on the negatives of our system to the detriment of its advantages.

What I'd dearly love to see and what would be most helpful is for people to specify their grievances and provide solutions for those grievances. The real difficulty with undertaking this process is figuring out what effect a particular proposal would have in the overall scheme of things.

So for example:

A coalition supporter at the moment may have some serious grievances with the way the senate is currently used. The logical conclusion to prevent the senate from being used in an obstructionist way, aka, as a tool to tear down a government for the sake of it is to abolish it.

Consequences.

Well we only need to look at Queensland. Up here, opposition parties are rendered pretty much useless from election to the next. Opposition members warm the seats like spectators at a tennis match because they have no power, no influence over the game that is in play.

Once you start lifting the covers on our system and the way it operates I think you'll find that it's actually not too bad. One only needs to cast an eye over the British system, the American (blurrrk!) and even sections of the kiwi system to see how the Australian system tries to make amends for their shortfalls.

After handing out how to vote cards at the recent state election, I was disheartened to see people from all sides casting judgement on particular voters, pointing out that they seemed too stupid to vote. I'm sorry, but our government is made up of representatives of the people for the people, therefore everyone can and should vote irrespective of what walk of life they hail from. It's also a big part of the reason why people should never have to become 'qualified' to become a member of parliament, because the moment you do that, you will automatically exclude some people from being eligible to run for office.

Everyone has a right to throw their hat into the ring and the voters have a right to cast their judgement at the ballot box, and that includes donkey voters who don't want their vote to go anywhere.

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#1307137 - 12/02/2015 15:45 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Brett Guy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 4840
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Here is my take ADU(although it has a couple of things that would need work).

ALL money that goes to any politician or political party MUST come from the public purse at a set amount per sitting member. NO donations from the private sector or unions or any 'wining and dining' allowed. The ONLY contact any private member of the public can have with politicians(in a business sense that is) must be official and in an official location etc. Politicians must suspend ay day to day running of a personal business while a member of parliament and may NOT make any decision that can directly affect their personal business. Voting should be made optional not compulsory and a candidate must receive a minimum percentage of votes to win a seat. And that is as a proportion of eligible voters not as a proportion of the number of people that actually did vote. This would mean politicians would have to earn votes rather than get them because people have no choice. And finally campaigns must be run to specific timetables.ie All costings etc must be submitted and made public by a set date before an election so independent people can sort through them. Obviously this is a very general concept but I am sure you get the point. It is to make politicians earn votes rather then buy them or trick them out of people. Any breach of the rules will be met with expulsion and immediate and total loss of future pension(to keep the pricks honest)

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#1307140 - 12/02/2015 15:54 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Ben Quinn (BSCH) Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/06/2001
Posts: 2987
Loc: Caboolture, ~45km north of Bri...
Agree 100% - by far the biggest problem the WORLD has, not just Australia, is money in politics. There's a strong movement in the US at the moment to get money out of politics - I suspect they've got a good chance of succeeding too

http://www.wolf-pac.com/

There are a few groups pushing for it but this one in particular has a lot of momentum behind it. Cenk Uygur from the Youtube Channel "The Young Turks" backs it strongly which is a big part of it's momentum I would say.

I personally think the broader system works with maybe some adjustments needed here and there, but if you were looking for a silver bullet to knock out the vast majority of corruption and outside influence, getting money out of politics would be it IMO.

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#1307157 - 12/02/2015 16:36 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Mick10]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4035
Loc: El Arish
Originally Posted By: Mick10
another measure passes the senate while the government is "on a gap year" according to Labor. funny that this is

But even funnier....

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Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

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#1307164 - 12/02/2015 16:58 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Andy Double U]
desieboy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/12/2002
Posts: 3105
Loc: Broome
Originally Posted By: Andy Double U
Originally Posted By: desieboy
Clearly this system we have at the moment is absolutely outdated and is a pile of crap.

The whole system needs to be revamped so this country has a relevant ,valid government before its too late.


I understand that you (along with many others!) have some serious issues with the current system. I think it's very easy to focus on the negatives of our system to the detriment of its advantages.

What I'd dearly love to see and what would be most helpful is for people to specify their grievances and provide solutions for those grievances. The real difficulty with undertaking this process is figuring out what effect a particular proposal would have in the overall scheme of things.



What about a general assembly which is not bound to any political party governing the country in the best interest of all the population . Made up of persons who may be chosen because of their ability to give intelligent input into the running of the country and who come from all works of life not just someone is became aligned with a political party for their own gain.

I agree with Brett too about our voting system ,where those who want to vote do so and people aren't forced into voting for some party they don't want to or making a donkey vote instead.
In a democracy you shouldn't be forced to vote.

If people feel strongly about some issue it should be put to a referendum and let the people decide.

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- Mark Twain

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#1307228 - 12/02/2015 21:26 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Crookhaven River Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 05/05/2010
Posts: 629
Loc: Crookhaven Heads N.S.W 14m AS...
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#1307229 - 12/02/2015 21:41 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Night Rain Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 22/03/2010
Posts: 260
Loc: Maleny Qld
Someone sent this through this evening which I thought you may like to read.
Our Government - Miranda Devine - The Telegraph
This government has talent. Give them time to fix Australia!!
ONE year ago yesterday, Kevin Rudd was prime minister, talking to a stuffed toy in his last video message.
That final act of eccentric narcissism summed up the farcical Rudd-Gillard-Rudd years. It was never about the country.
It was all about them. From the home insulation scheme that killed four young men to the jettisoned border protection that delivered 50,000 illegal boat arrivals, no institution was unscathed. And yet Rudd was hailed a great success in his first year, as he set in train the calamities which would saddle the nation with a $250 billion deficit.
He was the most popular prime minister in our history, so successful his party gave him two turns in the Lodge, despite his personality defects.
By contrast, Abbott in his first year is slandered daily and trounced in opinion polls by Bill Shorten.
Friend and foe denounce the Budget and declare their dissatisfaction with the government’s progress, as if he can magically fix in 12 months what Labor took six years to wreck.
The elite consensus is that our system of government is broken. But the Prime Minister disagrees.
“It’s not the system which is the problem; it is the people who, from time to time, inhabit it,”
Mr Abbott said last week.
Of course it’s the people. Governments and the market are not just machines that operate themselves.
They need people of good character and competence to run them.
So before we dig into the bucket of complaints about the first year of the Abbott government,
consider the quality of the people on its benches.
For starters, there are three Rhodes Scholars: Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull, and Angus Taylor.
Two more ministers have degrees from Oxford University : George Brandis QC, and Josh Frydenberg,
who has the added distinction of a master’s degree from Harvard. Two other MPs also have master’s degrees from Harvard, among the seven MBAs, two MPAs and four PhDs on the government benches. Two more have masters of philosophy from Cambridge.
Fulbright scholar Greg Hunt has an MA from Yale. Former WA treasurer Christian Porter has an impressive four degrees. And he’s a backbencher.
Three government MPs are medical doctors, including Dr David Gillespie, a gastroenterologist who won independent Rob Oakeshott’s old seat of Lyne.
He is also a farmer, one of 16 in government.
There are also teachers, bankers, journalists, engineers, research scientists, economists, small business owners, a shearer, a carpenter, a wool classer, an air traffic controller and even a crocodile catcher. That real world diversity is a stark contrast to Labor benches, dominated by union officials, party administrators and political consultants.
Also on the government side are at least 30 lawyers, and five former police officers, including Jason Wood, once a detective senior sergeant in Victoria’s organised crime squad and counter-terrorism unit.
Governments and the market are not just machines that operate themselves.
They need people of good character and competence to run them. So before we dig into the bucket of complaints about the first year of the Abbott government, consider the quality of the people on its benches.
Luke Simpkins was also an officer with the Australian Federal Police and an army officer for 14 years.
Senator David Fawcett had 22 years as an army officer and experimental test pilot, along with a science degree and an MBA.
Another backbencher is Brigadier Andrew Nikolic, possessor of three master’s degrees, with wartime roles in Afghanistan and Iraq as chief of staff and deputy commander. Among numerous awards is the Conspicuous Service Cross.
These are just some of the high achievers representing us on the government benches.
They could be earning a lot more money with a lot less scrutiny and scorn than they get in parliament.
Like all politicians, they do it for reasons both altruistic and self aggrandising, but most express the desire to serve.
Take Angus Taylor, 47, one of 2013’s record influx of MPs. The father of four is a farmer’s son from Nimmitabel, a Rhodes Scholar who travelled the world as a management consultant and started a business of his own.
His role model is his grandfather, William Hudson, commissioner and chief engineer of the Snowy Mountains Scheme who, “abhorred snobbery and judged people on character and conduct, not rank. He worked prodigiously and was extra¬ordinarily humble. The Snowy was never about him.”
In his maiden speech last December, Taylor said: “Some people say politics is about power. I do not agree. It should be about leadership, service and making an enduring difference to the lives of others. I hope the work I do ... makes a real difference and will one day make my children proud.”
This is the quiet truth, away from the headlines about Clive Palmer or Jacqui Lambie.
Galvanised by the political farce of Labor years, the Abbott government is full of people driven to revive the nation. They are serious people who will make the machinery of government work again.
So before we bag a one-year-old administration full of new MPs, let’s give them a chance, as the Prime Minister says, to be their “best selves”. Judging by their CVs, their best is as good as it gets.

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