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#1250675 - 24/03/2014 10:09 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
ABC New 24 have announced they are broadcasting the hearing live at the moment:

www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/
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#1251109 - 25/03/2014 16:51 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Anthony and Christine Foster - George Pell not telling the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2UC7pFyAho
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#1252099 - 28/03/2014 19:56 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Rape victims' parents say George Pell vowed to review Church compensation payments


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-28/ra...payouts/5353008

Watch the full report on Lateline at 10:30pm on ABC1.

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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1252110 - 28/03/2014 20:37 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
vid...
Breakthrough for Foster family in battle with Catholic church
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-28/breakthrough-for-foster-family-in-battle-with/5353278
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1260199 - 17/04/2014 09:34 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Quote:
>If this were some dumb corporation – some downtown retailer, say – a far lesser abuse scenario would have seen heads roll, many and large. Were the abuser Joe Blow, he'd be jailed as a rock spider. Were the abuse organised, secret, power-protected, woe betide, especially the ringleader.


http://www.watoday.com.au/comment/cleani...l#ixzz2z5yKOb9L
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#1260257 - 17/04/2014 17:55 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
1996 Four Corners Program 'TwiceBetrayed' in four videos. Banned in Victoria and unavailable since that 1996 viewing.

Part One.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMsbRR40X4g
Part Two... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj_ZHfXfsPg
Part Three..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA9MGawM7hc
Part Four... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVTnYhcAwPg

Is here also...
http://www.snapaustralia.org/
....right hand side /down two flicks

FOUR CORNERS
Investigative journalism at its very best

TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT
LOCATION: abc.net.au > Four Corners > Archives
URL: http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/s72926.htm

Broadcast: 27/05/96
Twice Betrayed
This story is about the crisis within the Roman Catholic Church over sexual abuse. After decades of inaction, the Church is facing its day of reckoning as a legal and financial showdown looms. Four Corners reveals the cover up that left the victims twice betrayed.

and now in 2014

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/paedop...0408-36bb7.html
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1261943 - 02/05/2014 07:53 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Royal Commission hearings into the handling of abuse in the recent past is finding the catholic bosses/bishops as well as insurance companies all conspired against the victims to minimise and conceal what has been going on.
Some of the Orders that came out from the mother country were all paedophiles /problem clergy ..sent out to the 'colonies' basically to get rid of them.
Christian bros for example started off with four and became the biggest group of abusers of the lot./Bindoon etc
While abuse and concealment of paeds in other Orders runs right up to present day ..not historic at all.

Read the transcripts before you start blurting out how that 'cant be true!'
Unfortunately it is!

There's only one other human organisation I can think of to compare the vatican to and that's the North Korean Government.

Dear leader is dear leader because dear leader says so.



Edited by Arnoldnut (02/05/2014 07:54)
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#1267514 - 25/06/2014 14:29 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/bb3eaadf-9283-41ef-9694-e560738d186a/case-study-14,-june-2014,-sydney.aspx
you may need cut and paste the link to the live Royal Com
ArchBishop Wilson is speaking at the moment.....

Do hope some are watching and the testimony is about Canon Law vs Aussie law
.....full circle hey!
http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthreads.php/topics/189700/Canon_Law_vs_Australian_Law


Edited by Arnoldnut (25/06/2014 14:34)
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1268233 - 30/06/2014 13:15 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
todays live hearing Case 13
...Marists <= LINK

gone to lunch at the moment
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1268344 - 01/07/2014 16:22 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Convicted child sex offender appears in witness box at royal commission

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2014/s4036672.htm
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1268700 - 05/07/2014 11:03 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Vatican refuses to hand over documents to royal commission

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2014/s4039920.htm
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#1273927 - 21/08/2014 12:02 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
Live feed of George Pell appearing by videolink before the Royal Commission at 4pm today

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/791fd480-ba30-45bc-ba79-cbad85f27023/case-study-16,-august-2014,-melbourne

(you'll need cut and paste I'm afraid???)
Richard Leder, melb's catholic archdiocese solicitor being questioned at the moment.


Edited by Arnoldnut (21/08/2014 12:04)
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1273936 - 21/08/2014 14:09 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
'The clash between canon and civil law at the Royal Commission

One of the problems with Towards Healing that Professor Patrick Parkinson identified was that it appeared to be inconsistent with canon law.

The hearing into the Melbourne Response now makes it clear that it also suffered from the same problem. Toward Healing required reporting to the police wherever the civil law required it. In all States, there was a requirement to report children at risk, but not all of them applied to clergy. Victoria, for example, had no obligation on clergy to report.

New South Wales was the only State that required the reporting of “historic abuse”, that is, where the complainant was then an adult.

The 1996 Towards Healing document required bishops to comply with all reporting laws for sexual abuse. The Melbourne Response had no equivalent, but then it did not need one, because there was no requirement to report any abuse, historic or otherwise.

But a common feature of both schemes is that the assessor under Towards Healing and the independent Commissioner under the Melbourne Response were also authorised to be the bishop’s delegate for the purposes of carrying out a preliminary inquiry under canon 1717 of the Code. By reason of Art.1(4) of the decree, Secreta Continere of 1974, the allegations and any information under such an inquiry were subject to the pontifical secret. The imposition of the pontifical secret was confirmed in the amended procedures under Sacramentorum Sanctitatis Tutela of 2001 and again in 2010. There were no exceptions for reporting to the police until 2010 when a dispensation was given when there was a civil law requiring reporting. That dispensation did not apply to Victoria because until this year, there was no law requiring reporting. The pontifical secret still applies.

Until 2010, any compliance with S.316 of the Crimes Act in NSW was in breach of the pontifical secret, but a way was found around canon law by having counsellors do the reporting. Counselling a victim was never part of any canonical procedure to discipline the priest.

In Melbourne the Independent Commissioner had the right to report to the police if he considered it appropriate, but subject to his obligations of confidentiality. He was obliged to encourage the complainant to take the matter to the police, “where appropriate”.

In evidence both to the Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry, the Independent Commissioner, Peter O’Callaghan indicated that he never personally reported any such matters to the police, and the most that he would do would be to arrange for the complainant to see the police if they indicated a willingness to do so. Indeed, O'Callaghan was challenged on 20 August 2014 as to whether he positively discouraged complainants in two cases to report their abuse to the police. He denied, that, and no doubt the Commission will be making a finding of some sort on that issue.

Since O'Callaghan did himself report any allegation or evidence to the police, issues of the breach of canon law did not in practice arise in terms of reporting to the police. However, because there was a compensation panel involved, his report containing the allegations and the finding on the evidence were submitted to the panel. This constituted a breach of the pontifical secret in his role as the bishop’s delegate under canon 1717.

In January 1997, Cardinal Castrillon the Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy wrote to the Irish bishops who had submitted their Framework Document in 1996 for comment. It contained a proposal for mandatory reporting. The Congregation advised that their proposals for mandatory reporting “ give rise to serious reservations of both a moral and a canonical nature” and that “the procedures established by the Code of Canon Law must be meticulously followed under pain of invalidity of the acts involved if the priests so punished were to make hierarchical recourse against his Bishop.” In other words, if bishops report these crimes to the police, any canonical action to discipline the priest will be rendered invalid if the priest appeals to Rome.

In the Nestor case, considered by the Royal Commission, Bishop Wilson had placed Fr Nestor on “administrative leave”. The Congregation ordered his reinstatement because the appointment of the assessor in that case did not comply with the requirements of canon 1717, and in any event, the concept of “administrative leave” only applied once a canonical penal trial had started and not before.

There were other cases in Melbourne where Archbishop Pell’s decisions were set aside by the Congregation for the Clergy for similar reasons. Professor Parkinson has said,

“The complaints procedure has been grafted onto existing processes, or created alongside existing processes, but without having any formal standing in the rules of the Church...The lack of consistency between the complaints procedure and the law of the Church has been a problem in the Catholic Church in Australia….As a consequence, the best intentions of the Church leadership in Australia concerning the removal of offenders from ministry have not always been achieved.”


This is still going to be a problem for both the Church and the Royal Commission, particularly because of the imposition of the pontifical secret under canon law. The whole problem could be resolved if Pope Francis accepted the demand of the United Nations that it abandon the pontifical secret over its internal inquiries and that it make reporting to the police of all allegations mandatory.

On 26 July 1990, Dr Nicholas Tonti-Filippini, a Catholic ethicist advised the Australian bishops:

“For the sake of the Church, reasonable suspicion of a crime must be reported to the authorities. Any attempt to contain it within an in-house investigation and management risks bringing the Church into disrepute.

The chickens have now come home to roost, as Dr.Tonti-Filippini predicted.'

....a quote from the author of Potiphar's Wife. Kieran Tapsell ....this afternoon we will all hear Cardinal Pell's explanation to the Royal Commission by webcast at 4pm.
_________________________
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1274204 - 24/08/2014 08:14 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
I got myself banned here a few times because I was talking heresy apparently.
Everyone had plenty to say about how wrong I was ....where are you now guys?
http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthreads.php/topics/189700/Canon_Law_vs_Australian_Law

This is about protecting children from paedophiles ....nothing else!
No need to be confused now as Pell has been well exposed by the Royal Commission for the clown that he actually is.

(if you look back you will see I never named this thread ...I don't care what flavour you are ....if you abuse kids you are in my gun)


Edited by Arnoldnut (24/08/2014 08:16)
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1274207 - 24/08/2014 08:36 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
Arnoldnut Offline
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Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1557
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
many have been working for years on this ...here's a comment on the Salesians whom I have been attempting to stop from hiding paeds in the pacific islands ...we have had a few extradicted and are jailed in melb now.

Here what the guy who did my legal review had to say...
http://vid1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/Michael_Scull/Rally2011/ParkinsonIntview.mp4

and our call to parliament for a hearing in victoria..
http://vid1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/Michael_Scull/Rally2011/AnnBarkerParliamentStepsSm.mp4

I think it important that all parents are aware of the fact paedophilia in the catholic church is far higher incidence than in the general public
and on top of that they have a culture of hiding the same.

What came first we can only wonder.


Edited by Arnoldnut (24/08/2014 08:37)
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#1278767 - 04/10/2014 14:36 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
ipex Offline
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Registered: 15/05/2014
Posts: 161
Loc: Katoomba, NSW
Pell should be jailed in my opinion. He should be brought back to Australia and put on trial. He personally KNEW of priests and brothers abusing kids and instead of reporting the perpetrators to police, they were just moved on to other churches, parishes and schools. Failure to report serious crimes like this (and in fact, aiding and abetting them) is itself a serious crime. He would not get away with this if it was a secular organisation - say, a workplace, a government department or a public school. The man should be brought to justice, as should many others in the Catholic Church.

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#1278835 - 05/10/2014 13:23 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: ipex]
Cheers Offline
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Registered: 26/05/2007
Posts: 1109
Loc: sevenhills nsw
Originally Posted By: ipex
Pell should be jailed in my opinion. He should be brought back to Australia and put on trial. He personally KNEW of priests and brothers abusing kids and instead of reporting the perpetrators to police, they were just moved on to other churches, parishes and schools. Failure to report serious crimes like this (and in fact, aiding and abetting them) is itself a serious crime. He would not get away with this if it was a secular organisation - say, a workplace, a government department or a public school. The man should be brought to justice, as should many others in the Catholic Church.


I'm 100% with you . Totally agree.

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#1278847 - 05/10/2014 15:34 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
ipex Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/05/2014
Posts: 161
Loc: Katoomba, NSW
Originally Posted By: Cheers
Originally Posted By: ipex
Pell should be jailed in my opinion. He should be brought back to Australia and put on trial. He personally KNEW of priests and brothers abusing kids and instead of reporting the perpetrators to police, they were just moved on to other churches, parishes and schools. Failure to report serious crimes like this (and in fact, aiding and abetting them) is itself a serious crime. He would not get away with this if it was a secular organisation - say, a workplace, a government department or a public school. The man should be brought to justice, as should many others in the Catholic Church.


I'm 100% with you . Totally agree.


It's great that the tide is turning enough to be able to express these opinions. Just a few years ago, comments like ours would likely get you banned from many/most forums - as I know from experience.

But it hasn't turned far enough and won't have done so until Pell and his cronies are rotting in jail. We just need politicians and lawmakers brave enough to purse justice - most of them are too afraid because Roman Catholics are still a significant (and powerful) minority, and unfortunately votes are deemed more important than justice.

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#1324617 - 14/04/2015 14:09 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: SBT]
Cheers Offline
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Registered: 26/05/2007
Posts: 1109
Loc: sevenhills nsw
Originally Posted By: SBT
Both arnoldnut and myself have access to the very documents that the catholic church use as Stanadard Operating Procedures when a case is bought forward by a victim and let me just say that the only thing they are interested in is stopping any investigation from gaining publicity. Usually accomplished by threats of ex communication as a starting point. Not exactly what you would expect to see from a religion that is supposed to care about it's parishoners now is it?

My guess is that Pell will suddenly be promoted to a special post within the Vatican and he will remain there until he dies as a means of stopping him from being investigated. Arnoldnut is right, the church itself is bullet proof but individuals aren't. No religion has any standing above the law.

If a crime has been committed and you played an active part in hidding it then you are guilty of conspiracy to prevert the course of justice no matter what position you hold within any organisation. If you knowingly fail to notify the police of a crime you are also guilty of a similar offence.


I was having a look at these old posts and you are spot on SBT with your guess about Pell being promoted to a special post within the Vatican.

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#1324676 - 15/04/2015 10:18 Re: Royal Commission Catholic Church [Re: Cheers]
ozone doug Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 1863
Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the West...
I was church of england .And was abused when young ,Thought that was normal till later shocked .Guess what my thoughts are now about religion. And i see Dr Creflo A Dollar, Jr. lol what a name hey. Wants his followers to buy him a $63 million dollar Jet so he can spread the word lol.makes my blood boil. mad
Sorry Trav on this one realistic.
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