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#1431171 - 18/08/2017 17:17 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
samboz Offline
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Registered: 16/11/2014
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Well we've had Pauline in mufti and Dep/Leader of Nats turned Scotch, it's all happening out there.... grin

None of us can change the course of events nation wide, how about we treat the thread with that in mind and not be abusive of elected reps and each other.

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#1431174 - 18/08/2017 17:47 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
RC Offline
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Registered: 29/09/2007
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Loc: near Rockhampton, Qld
All it is doing it making people even more cynical of politicians.

Now they are saying any politician can not have indirect pecuniary dealings with the federal government. Which is fair enouth, but what is "indirect"?

If a pollie has superannuation and the superannuation company benefits from dealings with the federal government does that mean they politician should be sacked?

It is a pity the country is playing second fiddle to the political games now in play. Amusingly Bill Shorten did not stand aside when he was opposition leader and under police investigation over the rape of a sixteen year old girl.

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#1431175 - 18/08/2017 18:06 Re: Australian Politics [Re: RC]
ColdFront Offline
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Registered: 29/06/2008
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Loc: Burnett Heads
Originally Posted By: RC
Amusingly Bill Shorten did not stand aside when he was opposition leader and under police investigation over the rape of a sixteen year old girl.


He was cleared of any wrong doing. Just as several NRL players were last year after the woman kept changing her story. Big difference to pollies who have actually been found to be illegitimate under section 44. If he was guilty he or even under suspicion of guilt he would have been charged, but I suspect you already know that.

These National members are all PROVEN to have dual citizenship but won't step aside. Massive difference.
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#1431179 - 18/08/2017 18:32 Re: Australian Politics [Re: RC]
Mega Offline
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Registered: 03/02/2003
Posts: 7046
Loc: Maryborough, Wide Bay, QLD
Originally Posted By: RC
Amusingly Bill Shorten did not stand aside when he was opposition leader and under police investigation over the rape of a sixteen year old girl.


Wow, I can't believe you could even draw that comparison to begin with.

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#1431180 - 18/08/2017 18:34 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Red Watch Offline
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Registered: 14/03/2010
Posts: 441
Loc: Cranbrook, Townsville
If anyone doesn't understand the laws of automatic citizenship by DESCENT you have to have been born to a citizen of that country as Joyce was and he has been a dual citizen since birth. Australia has the same law as New Zealand so if an Australian citizen goes on holiday or on a working visa to another county their children born there are automatically Australian citizens. So unless all the MP's were born to North Korean citizens living in Australia that country cannot FORCE citizenship on them, that is why it is called automatic citizenship by DESCENT. And as far as I know the only automatic citizenship laws are for birth or descent not because someone wants to mess with the Australian Parliament which in that case the High Court would rule it invalid.

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#1431185 - 18/08/2017 19:01 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
RC Offline
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Registered: 29/09/2007
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Loc: near Rockhampton, Qld
Originally Posted By: ColdFront

These National members are all PROVEN to have dual citizenship but won't step aside. Massive difference.


Well no Coldfront. That is the thing, the high court has not done the investigation yet and clarified the law. You may recall most of these MP's are not on the list of citizens of those other countries. Neither have they applied for citizenship themselves. Excluding Canavan who we are told someone else gave him citizenship without his knowledge.

They are simply under "investigation" so to speak until the high court clarifies the law as it is vague, much like Mr Shorten was under investigation at one stage, but he never stood aside.

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#1431186 - 18/08/2017 19:06 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Mega Offline
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Registered: 03/02/2003
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Loc: Maryborough, Wide Bay, QLD
Can you tell me why the two Greens senators stepped aside straight after finding out their dual citizenship, yet Joyce feels he doesn't have to?

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#1431189 - 18/08/2017 19:19 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
RC Offline
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They were not born in Australia Mega, that is the difference.

Some commentators even think they jumped the gun and should have sought clarification. But being senators they knew their role would simply fall automatically to another Greens member with no election required.

http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2017/08/barnaby-joyce-joins-the-citizenship-imbroglio.html

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#1431190 - 18/08/2017 19:25 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Steve777 Offline
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#1431192 - 18/08/2017 19:33 Re: Australian Politics [Re: RC]
Mega Offline
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Registered: 03/02/2003
Posts: 7046
Loc: Maryborough, Wide Bay, QLD
Originally Posted By: RC
They were not born in Australia Mega, that is the difference.

Some commentators even think they jumped the gun and should have sought clarification. But being senators they knew their role would simply fall automatically to another Greens member with no election required.

http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2017/08/barnaby-joyce-joins-the-citizenship-imbroglio.html


Hmmm, that's fair enough, but regardless, you would think that it's the responsibility of the politicians to check up on all of this before they run for parliament. Apparently the question is there in the paperwork - so why just assume you aren't a dual citizen and tick off on it to begin with?

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#1431193 - 18/08/2017 19:46 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Steve777 Offline
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Those allegations against Bill Shorten were completely cleared. I would even say the fact that the Coalition parties and their media allies have not in any way attempted to use them against him speaks volumes. No more to say on that.

----

Originally Posted By: samboz
None of us can change the course of events nation wide...

True. Indeed I don't think we can even change each others' minds

Originally Posted By: samboz
how about we treat the thread with that in mind and not be abusive of elected reps and each other

I always regard public figures as fair game, not other posters. In any case, there's no need for abuse.

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#1431203 - 18/08/2017 21:47 Re: Australian Politics [Re: RC]
Red Watch Offline
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Registered: 14/03/2010
Posts: 441
Loc: Cranbrook, Townsville
Originally Posted By: RC
They were not born in Australia Mega, that is the difference.

Some commentators even think they jumped the gun and should have sought clarification. But being senators they knew their role would simply fall automatically to another Greens member with no election required.

http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2017/08/barnaby-joyce-joins-the-citizenship-imbroglio.html

It is called citizen by descent, Australia has the same law so a member of the Australian Government should have known if his father was a New Zealand citizen when he was born there is a good chance he would be a citizen by descent ya think . And let me spell this out to you .......you don't have to be born in that country to be a citizen by descent and he should have known that seeing our law is the same.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-16/ba...grattan/8812432


Edited by Red Watch (18/08/2017 21:55)

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#1431232 - 19/08/2017 15:05 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
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Registered: 29/06/2008
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Originally Posted By: ColdFront


I'd probably be more worried if I were Nick Xenaphon.


Told ya ! smile

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-...819-gxzu0g.html
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#1431233 - 19/08/2017 15:13 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
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Registered: 29/06/2008
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Loc: Burnett Heads
Meanwhile Turnbull is in Tasmania praising the Liberal state government saying Tasmania can lead the country in renewable energy after condemning Weatherill in SA for his renewable commitment. The hypocrisy of this PM is astounding.

With the government clearly ineffective and the turmoil surrounding his two illegitimate members it is time for the GG to grow a pair ,get out of the Liberal party's pocket and do his job.

Originally Posted By: RC
They were not born in Australia Mega, that is the difference.



Section 44 does NOT discriminate. What part is so hard to understand? Under the law they should not be there. As stated by pretty much everyone over the past couple of weeks, ignorance is NOT a defence. Even the right wing commentators such as Steve Price have made this abundantly clear.
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#1431238 - 19/08/2017 15:35 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
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Says it all really....

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#1431246 - 19/08/2017 16:28 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Mega Offline
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Registered: 03/02/2003
Posts: 7046
Loc: Maryborough, Wide Bay, QLD
You would think that it's only a matter of time before a member of the ALP gets caught up in this dual citizenship business too, tbh.

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#1431248 - 19/08/2017 16:30 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Mega]
ColdFront Offline
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Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18422
Loc: Burnett Heads
Originally Posted By: Mega
You would think that it's only a matter of time before a member of the ALP gets caught up in this dual citizenship business too, tbh.


Agreed ,and if they do they should go too. The law is the law.
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"When it comes to the weather, "occasionally" is better than "not at all".

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#1431251 - 19/08/2017 16:58 Re: Australian Politics [Re: ColdFront]
Markus Offline
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Registered: 02/12/2010
Posts: 2186
Loc: Clare, SA
This whole dual citizenship thing is getting beyond ridiculous. These people are getting paid thousands upon thousands per week to argue over menial crap whilst a continuously growing list of important issues are being pushed to the side it seems.

I'm still quite young, has our system always appeared to be this useless? or is this a new thing. My knowledge of politics is fairly limited so I'm likely missing a lot of things outside of the news cycle, but what has the government done lately that is positive for this country?
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#1431253 - 19/08/2017 17:06 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Markus]
Kino Offline
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Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2305
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Originally Posted By: Markus
This whole dual citizenship thing is getting beyond ridiculous. These people are getting paid thousands upon thousands per week to argue over menial crap whilst a continuously growing list of important issues are being pushed to the side it seems.

I'm still quite young, has our system always appeared to be this useless? or is this a new thing. My knowledge of politics is fairly limited so I'm likely missing a lot of things outside of the news cycle, but what has the government done lately that is positive for this country?


It's useless because of us the voters - we prefer to vote for the sugary hit rather than the issues that will guarantee our future.


Edited by Kino (19/08/2017 17:06)

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#1431262 - 19/08/2017 19:25 Re: Australian Politics [Re: Kino]
RC Offline
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Registered: 29/09/2007
Posts: 2289
Loc: near Rockhampton, Qld
Originally Posted By: Kino

It's useless because of us the voters - we prefer to vote for the sugary hit rather than the issues that will guarantee our future.


That is just our culture though. I do not know what happened, but it has got really bad. Too many people too well off.

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