Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1439433 - 28/10/2017 10:21 Atmospheric Rivers
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but will ask anyway.
Has anybody heard of "atmospheric rivers" in the Australian context?
There is a body of science developing in the US about these, apparently channels of water vapour flow, and of interest to heavy rain events in California.
More info is here: https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/atmrivers/
Noted in the US that they occur outside the tropics.
If it has been discussed before a link to post would help me.
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1439434 - 28/10/2017 10:28 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Chris Stumer Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/01/2010
Posts: 1611
Loc: Kingaroy
It would be interesting to see if Australia gets them and what would happen if an atmospheric river did occur in South east Queensland.

Top
#1439435 - 28/10/2017 10:35 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
Chris, I think SEQ is probably unlikely due to sub tropical climate and perhaps coast orientation. But perhaps somewhere like west coast Tas?
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1439437 - 28/10/2017 10:42 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Kino Online   content
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 1272
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Originally Posted By: Flowin
I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but will ask anyway.
Has anybody heard of "atmospheric rivers" in the Australian context?
There is a body of science developing in the US about these, apparently channels of water vapour flow, and of interest to heavy rain events in California.
More info is here: https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/atmrivers/
Noted in the US that they occur outside the tropics.
If it has been discussed before a link to post would help me.


Very interesting....you could argue NW Cloud bands are similar?

Top
#1439445 - 28/10/2017 12:11 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
KevD Offline
Occasional Visitor

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 5079
Loc: Bellingen NSW 2454
Originally Posted By: Flowin
I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but will ask anyway.
Has anybody heard of "atmospheric rivers" in the Australian context?
There is a body of science developing in the US about these, apparently channels of water vapour flow, and of interest to heavy rain events in California.
More info is here: https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/atmrivers/
Noted in the US that they occur outside the tropics.
If it has been discussed before a link to post would help me.

You see them in the UK as well (as I suspect Aus as well) - there have been some huge floods in the mountains in the west of the UK as a result of a river lining up and not moving for some time. When I've seen it happen the moisture originates way down south and moves in a narrow corridor into the UK...
EDIT: I did a quick search and saw this: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228384-300-atmospheric-rivers-caused-the-uks-worst-floods/


Edited by KevD (28/10/2017 12:12)
Edit Reason: searched and found a link...

Top
#1439498 - 28/10/2017 17:14 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
Thanks KevD
That UK example seems to align with what Wiki says as well

"They also are the major cause of extreme precipitation events that cause severe flooding in many mid-latitude, westerly coastal regions of the world, including the West Coast of North America, Western Europe, and the west coast of North Africa."

NOOA page also has an example from Norway.
I get the impression maybe not relevant, or at least not strong for Australia, perhaps because we don't have high mountains in a west coast region. But maybe relevant for NZ?

Top
#1439507 - 28/10/2017 19:42 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
This paper is something that maybe of interest for this topic. http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~andrea/papers/Gimeno_etal_2016.pdf
Note that it is only a draft and still subject to review. It is too technical for my knowledge but some of the Weatherzone community may understand it.
Seems to say that AR are infrequent in Australia, see page 15, and not consistent location.
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1440917 - 10/11/2017 08:23 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
The MIMIC TPW version 2 which is an experimental global product of total precipitable water is useful to see ESTIMATES of the concentration of atmospheric water movements. This link presents a global scale image, and the site also allows a view of Australia region. I emphasise ESTIMATES water movement because it is a hybrid of Satellite post processed data and model data.
http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/mt...4hrs&anim=html5
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1440922 - 10/11/2017 09:28 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Blair Trewin Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 13/07/2001
Posts: 3699
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
A northwest cloud band is indeed the approximate Australian equivalent - what you're looking for is a mechanism to transport large quantities of moisture from the tropics/subtropics to higher latitudes. The parts of the world where they're most prominent tend to be ones where there's significant topography on or near the west coast.

Top
#1440924 - 10/11/2017 09:47 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Blair Trewin]
Kino Online   content
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 1272
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Originally Posted By: Blair Trewin
A northwest cloud band is indeed the approximate Australian equivalent - what you're looking for is a mechanism to transport large quantities of moisture from the tropics/subtropics to higher latitudes. The parts of the world where they're most prominent tend to be ones where there's significant topography on or near the west coast.


Cheers Blair! grin

Top
#1441368 - 16/11/2017 22:03 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
I agree water movement in vapour transport is an influence.
So would the upcoming wet period forecast for Qld be an AR event or something similar?
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1441374 - 16/11/2017 22:33 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Greenyellow dawn Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 08/02/2017
Posts: 13
Loc: Sutherland NSW
Originally Posted By: Flowin
NOOA page also has an example from Norway.
I get the impression maybe not relevant, or at least not strong for Australia, perhaps because we don't have high mountains in a west coast region. But maybe relevant for NZ?


Yep, indeed, remembered a few years ago for the pure curiosity of it, I typed into google the wettest places in the world, after learning that death valley in the states was the hottest and driest. Apparently this Milford Sound on New Zealand's south island is the wettest place on earth. Seemed to be located in mountains on the west coast of their south island.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milford_Sound#Climate

Man oh hell, they get almost half of Sydney's yearly rainfall every month.

Top
#1441379 - 16/11/2017 22:50 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
Beautiful area in south NZ. I went to Doughtful sound nearby to Milford sound about ten years ago. Found it amazing the environment that develops that far south with high rainfall
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1441381 - 16/11/2017 23:00 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7166
Loc: Adelaide Hills.
Atmospheric Rivers would imply the convergence of airstreams.

Top
#1441383 - 16/11/2017 23:04 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
The recent ECMWF rain forecasts for 6-10 day period from now look like offering a moisture feed from tropics for western Qld
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1441385 - 16/11/2017 23:05 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Seira]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
Originally Posted By: Seira
Atmospheric Rivers would imply the convergence of airstreams.


Agree with that
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1441532 - 17/11/2017 21:41 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
Latest water vapour images suggesting increasing moisture feed from tropics
http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/mt...4hrs&anim=html5
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

Top
#1441535 - 17/11/2017 22:06 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Greenyellow dawn]
Kino Online   content
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 1272
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Originally Posted By: Greenyellow dawn
Originally Posted By: Flowin
NOOA page also has an example from Norway.
I get the impression maybe not relevant, or at least not strong for Australia, perhaps because we don't have high mountains in a west coast region. But maybe relevant for NZ?


Yep, indeed, remembered a few years ago for the pure curiosity of it, I typed into google the wettest places in the world, after learning that death valley in the states was the hottest and driest. Apparently this Milford Sound on New Zealand's south island is the wettest place on earth. Seemed to be located in mountains on the west coast of their south island.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milford_Sound#Climate

Man oh hell, they get almost half of Sydney's yearly rainfall every month.


Wettest on earth? Cherapunji in India gets 10000mm a year as can Bellenden Kerr in QLD.

Top
#1441537 - 17/11/2017 22:09 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Flowin]
Kino Online   content
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 1272
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Originally Posted By: Flowin
Originally Posted By: Seira
Atmospheric Rivers would imply the convergence of airstreams.


Agree with that


They refer to the mass transport of moisture in the atmosphere leading to major rainfall events.

Top
#1441540 - 17/11/2017 22:29 Re: Atmospheric Rivers [Re: Kino]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
Originally Posted By: Kino
Originally Posted By: Flowin
Originally Posted By: Seira
Atmospheric Rivers would imply the convergence of airstreams.


Agree with that


They refer to the mass transport of moisture in the atmosphere leading to major rainfall events.


Agree with that too

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Who's Online
16 registered (ThunderBob, Cheers, Snowies, Kino, Mick O'Halloran, Sidney, Homer, Steve777, Foehn Correspondent, duckweather, Perfect Storm, ashestoashes, slipperyfish, Simon James, 2 invisible), 338 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Today's Birthdays
avalon, philiphart, Ravenous2411, Sasho
Forum Stats
29421 Members
32 Forums
23735 Topics
1469483 Posts

Max Online: 2925 @ 02/02/2011 22:23
Satellite Image