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#1456229 - 08/03/2018 18:12 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Markus Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/12/2010
Posts: 2231
Loc: Clare, SA
Damn social media has utterly destroyed competent and accurate weather reporting. It seems to get worse by the day

I think the dailymail would have to be taking the lead on this in recent weeks though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ok_australiageo

Take a look at their opening 'points' and the vast majority of the general public still can't figure out that this is BS and based on absolutely nothing. The comments section is filled with people blaming the BoM saying 'they' always get it wrong, and the usual can't be mentioned debate and how this proves it wrong.

This alone shows well the extent of a problem that will never go away because the majority of people are utterly clueless when it comes to weather.

TBH I'm half tempted to start my own page. Seems pretty damn lucrative spreading as much misinformation and hype as possible. The trick is to be confident in your own BS and even if you're completely wrong there will be no accountability.

Idk if social media is making the problem worse or simply showing us the extent of gullibility in people that was already there but it makes you wonder about the future of humans lol.
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#1456521 - 10/03/2018 15:44 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 145
Markus, Nicely said.

I wonder if it is possible to get the traditional media (can't care/control the social crap), along to some sort of weather forum/event be it BOM/tourism or government (any level) backed. With the aim of holding a mirror up to themselves and seeking accountability. Or am I asking to much for facts to be included in a story?

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#1456563 - 10/03/2018 21:49 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Seina Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7642
Loc: Adelaide Hills
With regard to traditional media (e.g. News Segments on Free-to-Air), I distinctly remember a show called “Quantum” aired on ABC TV back in the 1990s, or was it the 1980s; don’t know, not going to bother at the moment with the finer detail on that. The point is – on that show, everything that was presented was factual – and all information was relevant, derived or deduced from factual content. Both explicitly and implicitly, directly and indirectly. This was my impression. The fact I can recall the show – documentary more-or-less, means its appeal, in terms of an honest representation of what was going on in the world of science, spoke volumes (no pun intended).

So in terms of the impact of traditional media on our understanding of the weather, my suggestion is to not simplify anything – to tell it as it is, like they did on Quantum smile .


Edited by Seira (10/03/2018 21:50)

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#1456575 - 10/03/2018 22:36 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 319
Loc: Kyabram
I recall Quantum great science show.It was cancalled and then replaced by Catalyst which was once a great show but i stopped watching it as it became less about science and more about opinions. It got a huge shake up after the statin episode but I still cant be bothered with it or trust it as its too one sided.

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#1456576 - 10/03/2018 22:37 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Seina]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5123
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Originally Posted By: Seira
With regard to traditional media (e.g. News Segments on Free-to-Air), I distinctly remember a show called “Quantum” aired on ABC TV back in the 1990s, or was it the 1980s; don’t know, not going to bother at the moment with the finer detail on that. The point is – on that show, everything that was presented was factual – and all information was relevant, derived or deduced from factual content. Both explicitly and implicitly, directly and indirectly. This was my impression. The fact I can recall the show – documentary more-or-less, means its appeal, in terms of an honest representation of what was going on in the world of science, spoke volumes (no pun intended).

So in terms of the impact of traditional media on our understanding of the weather, my suggestion is to not simplify anything – to tell it as it is, like they did on Quantum smile .


Good point. Present facts and allow the general public to arrive at their own conclusions. Problem is neither side want to do that anymore. The media either want to push their opinions or push a sensational headline which will increase traffic and therefore advertising revenue and the general public is either unwilling or unable to think for themselves anymore. As a society we are becoming less intelligent by the day and would rather be told what to think and what to say(repeat). Question is, how do we get back to the point where people actually wanted to learn and figure things out?


Edited by Brett Guy (10/03/2018 22:38)

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#1456595 - 11/03/2018 08:22 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ozone doug Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 1876
Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the West...
Things are getting pretty bad with social media. Anyone can be a expert and charge for it ,And add to that all the fake news now day's and photoshopping so called evidence .Its just blurring the reality for people that fall for it.And losing the trust of people .The world is bad enough with out false information. Brisbane weather is a example of it . Especially when the general media also fall for them. I don't know weather they believe him or just want a good story .
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#1456603 - 11/03/2018 09:10 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 145
Yeah agree ozone doug, it is trying to figure out how to get that disconnect between the traditional media and social, so that traditional forms can restore their credibility (big task). Right now they feed off each other.
This doesn't exist just for the weather either which is unfortunate.

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#1456624 - 11/03/2018 11:23 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 154
Loc: Roma, Qld
The problem lies in the fact that the traditional media completely and utterly miscalculated the impact of social media. They stubbornly kept (and keep) rolling out expensive to print and distribute newspapers - which by default only contain yesterday news. By the time they realised that people were buying less papers and the majority of the demographic they thought would never leave the format had smart phones and could access up to the minute information it was too late.
They had to shed staff to keep afloat which in turn started the vicious circle of reliance on leads from the public. The traditional media also started their own FB sites but mysteriously added paywalls to their www news sites.
The ‘public’ in turn had already become accustomed to free news and turned to those free social media sites.
So the journos really have no choice, they are under the pump to still file their reports but it has to be ‘current’ and attract an audience (click bait).
So grab some info (or a media release!) from a FB page, throw in a sensational headline and you can be sure that a good proportion of the people who follow that same FB page will click through the article.
Or even better the FB page will cross post the article as a form of legitimising their own claims.
It’s not all journos. I’ve worked with good local reporters who just want the public to know the facts but the issue with government agencies is that they are obliged to apply of level of rigour that the FB pages aren’t.
It’s a statistical thing but trying to put it simply, BOM has to give a report that’s got say an 85% chance of being right. The FB guys can (and do) throw out the 15% wildcards.
And that does not always make for a good headline.

Perhaps there’s a opportunity to legislate who can legitimately call themselves a weather forecaster?

The flip side is that the disaster management community do genuinely want as many people to know about impending events as possible.
So when BOM Qld has 115k followers on twitter but HSC has 700k on FB the question for those people is ‘is any coverage good coverage?’

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#1456628 - 11/03/2018 11:57 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Seina Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7642
Loc: Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: Brett Guy
Question is, how do we get back to the point where people actually wanted to learn and figure things out?

Generally, I would say an incentive would be needed to get back into the swing of not feeling overwhelmed by the 24-hour/7-day-a-week news cycle, and the bombardment of information with not enough time to adequately process and filter it all through for relevance and accuracy. An incentive could also be a twin-edged sword. For example, it might take a natural disaster for various demographics to go “hang on a minute – this is not on!”…Or it could be through our will, where it is realise information supply might slow down in order to be able to process all the unfiltered information out there. I’d think it would depend a lot on an awareness of the consequences of what would happen if facts were (more-or-less) drowned out by sensationalism in the face of crisis. It raises some interesting questions in itself.

Originally Posted By: wilyms
It’s not all journos. I’ve worked with good local reporters who just want the public to know the facts but the issue with government agencies is that they are obliged to apply of level of rigour that the FB pages aren’t.

That sounds like good insight smile , in some sense [the government thing that is].

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#1456629 - 11/03/2018 11:59 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: wilyms]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18734
Loc: The Beach.
Originally Posted By: wilyms
The problem lies in the fact that the traditional media completely and utterly miscalculated the impact of social media. They stubbornly kept (and keep) rolling out expensive to print and distribute newspapers - which by default only contain yesterday news. By the time they realised that people were buying less papers and the majority of the demographic they thought would never leave the format had smart phones and could access up to the minute information it was too late.
They had to shed staff to keep afloat which in turn started the vicious circle of reliance on leads from the public. The traditional media also started their own FB sites but mysteriously added paywalls to their www news sites.
The ‘public’ in turn had already become accustomed to free news and turned to those free social media sites.
So the journos really have no choice, they are under the pump to still file their reports but it has to be ‘current’ and attract an audience (click bait).
So grab some info (or a media release!) from a FB page, throw in a sensational headline and you can be sure that a good proportion of the people who follow that same FB page will click through the article.
Or even better the FB page will cross post the article as a form of legitimising their own claims.
It’s not all journos. I’ve worked with good local reporters who just want the public to know the facts but the issue with government agencies is that they are obliged to apply of level of rigour that the FB pages aren’t.
It’s a statistical thing but trying to put it simply, BOM has to give a report that’s got say an 85% chance of being right. The FB guys can (and do) throw out the 15% wildcards.
And that does not always make for a good headline.

Perhaps there’s a opportunity to legislate who can legitimately call themselves a weather forecaster?

The flip side is that the disaster management community do genuinely want as many people to know about impending events as possible.
So when BOM Qld has 115k followers on twitter but HSC has 700k on FB the question for those people is ‘is any coverage good coverage?’


Great post and all true. Write law to ensure only qualified mets can issue forecasts and reform the main stream media. Not easy but definitely required.

Sensationalism of weather events may feed the needs of some and be great for subscription bait but it affects the health and well being of the 1000's traumatised by the very mention of floods or cyclones.
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#1456676 - 11/03/2018 18:25 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 319
Loc: Kyabram
Then you get those people who continue to share random factless crap that aligns with their own "agenda" You know the ones:

Don't buy Cadbury easter eggs because they don't put the word easter on the packets anymore because that will offend muslims.

The post about the Queensland school principal who wrote to the parents that they wouldn't be banning pork in their canteen despite the request form the muslims.

The posts that say refugees get 4 times in social welfare payments than Aussie pensioners do.

The post that says a capiscum with four end bumps is female and a three bump one is male.

The post from an italian immigrant telling new Australians to get with the program or go home.

Simple Google searches can always find the truth about these posts and you challenge those that post this claptrap and they still stick with this crap and don't delete it and continue to post BS "factual" posts without checking anything.

Those that do post this want to believe it so they share and those that want to believe it will share it as well spreading the "truth" to those that want to believe and they never challenge it because it aligns to their prejudices and intelligence. It's on the net so it must be true.

Too many use Facebook a their only source of "facts/news" and that is so very scary,

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#1456687 - 11/03/2018 19:44 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2582
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
The trouble with journos is conceit. They think they are the vanguard. Of something. That something is the 'edge'. The edge of everything. The cultural edge. The weather and climate edge. The tolerance edge. The dietary edge. The fashion edge.


Edited by Knot (11/03/2018 19:44)
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#1456693 - 11/03/2018 20:15 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 154
Loc: Roma, Qld
won’t say where but I just read some comments I found extraordinary

: Cyclones are very predictable in their tracks ~

Followed by

Science is far more advance now than even 10 years ago. Models are far more capable of predicting steering patterns for these systems. I don't think there has been a system in the past 5 years which has "surprised" us in its tracks except for a system which jumped from Townsville to Bowen overnight (supposed to make landfall near Townsville, it jumped South to Bowen and possibly even further).. I think that was Dylan in 2014, but even that was widely influenced by other characteristics and its a long discussion haha.... bottom line is in the last 5 years there hasn't been a surprise package apart from "possibly" Dylan (if that was the correct system) smile ~


Err, wasn’t Debbie progged for Townsville until the last minute?
Didn’t Marcia suddenly hang a left on approach to the coast??
Let’s not even go there regarding sudden intensity change

If they were that predicable I doubt forums like this would exist

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#1456709 - 11/03/2018 22:37 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Kino Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2850
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
It’s not only the cyclone social media sites I saw one today warning about possible ‘black Saturday type conditions’ next weekend. A full 7 days away and hundreds of model runs.

Like the old saying goes “put information in the hands of a fool; they’re still a fool” or something like that wink

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#1456887 - 13/03/2018 08:15 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 154
Loc: Roma, Qld
Speaking of fools:

Bom's forecast says its a low chance of forming into a cyclone however may not come near the Queensland coast and if it does on Wednesday or Thursday
Do u have better technology than they do or just different opinions?
Page responded privately · 10 · 13 hrs
Remove
Higgins Storm Chasing
Higgins Storm Chasing Considering they're the outliers from every other agency in the world and their opinion clearly doesn't support any models at the moment... I don't really care what they think smile ~Thomas


Wow, just wow.

I do like this guy though:

We have decades of experience between myself and Jeff, we don't use "apps" for forecasts.. we use raw data ~Thomas

Hi before I join can you pm me your qualifications please this is a serious question I am deciding on joining



No reply to that of course


And no wonder it takes them 18 hours a day to generate a ‘forecast’ if they are truely using raw data (not models)
I used to find their page a source of amusement and a place to easily see the outlier scenarios but that stuff is just scary.

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#1456892 - 13/03/2018 08:33 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 154
Loc: Roma, Qld



Digital platforms inquiry
Issues paper26 February 2018

On 26 February 2018 the ACCC released an issues paper seeking feedback on issues relevant to its Digital Platforms Inquiry.

The ACCC is interested in a range of issues including:

assessing the market power of digital platforms
the implications of digital platforms for media content creators, advertisers and consumers
longer term trends in the media and advertising services markets
the effectiveness of existing regulation and proposals for change.
Submissions to the issues paper will close on 3 April 2018.

ACCC Digital Platform Issues paper link

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#1457044 - 13/03/2018 20:46 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 145
Excellent find wilyms. To add a little more to your post. You can also complete a questionnaire to be submitted to the enquiry. I would hope/urge that everyone has their input.

https://consultation.accc.gov.au/communications/consumer-portal/

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#1457230 - 15/03/2018 10:46 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Kino Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2850
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Surprised no one saw this as yet:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-15/hi...orecast/9549878

Our mates Higgins copping a pasting.


Edited by Kino (15/03/2018 10:46)

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#1457242 - 15/03/2018 12:00 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Kino]
ifishcq Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 31/01/2018
Posts: 88
Loc: Rockhampton
And so he should.
All my work colleges were running around here on Monday saying "A cyclone is going to hit Yeppoon in a couple days". "Higgins is saying its coming to CQ" they said.

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#1457258 - 15/03/2018 13:51 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Kino]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 154
Loc: Roma, Qld
Originally Posted By: Kino
Surprised no one saw this as yet:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-15/hi...orecast/9549878

Our mates Higgins copping a pasting.


Saw it, loved it especially the headline

Actually also a reasonably balanced article where they gave hsc right of reply (which was nonsensical and ironic at the same time)

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