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#1451286 - 02/02/2018 12:03 Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 143
Hi All, This thread has been started so that discussion about the media (traditional & social) can be had. Topics such as sensationalism, false reporting, unqualified reports etc. are the perfect fodder.

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#1451287 - 02/02/2018 12:09 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ozthunder Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 3117
Loc: Mt Warrigal, NSW, Australia
This is not going to end well.lol
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http://ozthunder.com

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#1451288 - 02/02/2018 12:23 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 143
For me.

In terms of the social media side of things I find it arrogant that some have created 'businesses' out of effectively unqualified opinions.

I find it absurd that people follow these social media outlets believing it to be from qualified people/organisations.

I find it absurd that traditional media reports from unqualified people/social media sites.

As someone mentioned just recently already on this forum, which I agree with, social media seems to voice with impunity whatever they wish, but the flack is directed back towards the organisations eg. BOM.

Just some initial opinions.

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#1451309 - 02/02/2018 16:30 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
retired weather man Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/07/2007
Posts: 4539
Loc: Wynnum
Agree.
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#1451330 - 02/02/2018 18:04 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ol mate Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/03/2010
Posts: 1140
Loc: Ingham, North Qld
I'm happy for social media groups or amateurs to provide commentary, or even voice their thoughts on the various models and what they *may* bring, but charging a subscription and providing independent warnings, watches, advice's etc, even when the official BOM has not, is wrong. Even Weatherzone doesn't do this! I wouldn't mind paying for a subscription service if they are live-streaming an event, such as a cyclone or storm chase - that is basically commentary (no doubt they will also provide analyses of maps and forecasts as part of the chase).
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#1451387 - 03/02/2018 10:07 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Drought declared Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 20/02/2015
Posts: 168
Originally Posted By: bbowen
For me.

In terms of the social media side of things I find it arrogant that some have created 'businesses' out of effectively unqualified opinions.

I find it absurd that people follow these social media outlets believing it to be from qualified people/organisations.

I find it absurd that traditional media reports from unqualified people/social media sites.

As someone mentioned just recently already on this forum, which I agree with, social media seems to voice with impunity whatever they wish, but the flack is directed back towards the organisations eg. BOM.

Just some initial opinions.
BOM are just as bad and make a rod for their own back, by quoting an "above average" cyclone season, which crystal ball are they using?. Lenox Walker once said it will be a long hot summer buy these sprinklers? So we got the 74 floods instead?

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#1451390 - 03/02/2018 10:29 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18399
Loc: Burnett Heads
Originally Posted By: bbowen
For me.

In terms of the social media side of things I find it arrogant that some have created 'businesses' out of effectively unqualified opinions.

I find it absurd that people follow these social media outlets believing it to be from qualified people/organisations.

I find it absurd that traditional media reports from unqualified people/social media sites.

As someone mentioned just recently already on this forum, which I agree with, social media seems to voice with impunity whatever they wish, but the flack is directed back towards the organisations eg. BOM.

Just some initial opinions.


Yep agree 100% . As I said elsewhere , only qualified mets should be able to charge a subscription for forecasting and be regulated. I don't take any notice of Higgins and don't follow his site, however I wonder if some of the backlash from others that charge subscription also is envy based ,particularly when they have been guilty of the same sensationalism in the past themselves.

There are varying degrees of sensationalism so it is hard to enforce or draw a line. Bringing attention to a cyclone in the CS without mentioning that every model sends it east is deception imo. It is designed to draw an audience and hold it . What these fools fail to acknowledge is that the very mention of a cyclone fills some people with anxiety.

The Gillard government wanted more accountabilty in the media and its ironic that some are pointing the finger at the mainstream media now whilst exempting social media from blame. Or worse, blaming lack of intelligence in the audience. It is lack of regulation that has seen an explosion of "opinion"passed off as news in the msm.

Better regulation is needed. It has become a farce. Investigative media is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

....and BoM's above average TC comments / forecasts are historically based. Some people seem to struggle with this. If there wasn't demand for the statenent they would not make it. There is simply no way they can forecast the exact outcome of a season. Expectation is the issue, not BoM.
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#1451395 - 03/02/2018 10:57 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: ColdFront]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18399
Loc: Burnett Heads
Originally Posted By: ColdFront
What these fools fail to acknowledge is that the very mention of a cyclone fills some people with anxiety.



Actually, scratch that. Some of them use this very deliberate ommission as a hook.
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"When it comes to the weather, "occasionally" is better than "not at all".

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#1451396 - 03/02/2018 10:58 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ozone doug Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 1797
Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the West...
I agree with all this i don't like the subscription thing . The only thing i like is real time photos or video people post of what is actually happening at the time hail strong wind, shelf cloud to get a handle on whats happening .I don't agree with making a business out of it .Brisbane weather is probably one of the worst for going nuts.From what i saw when someone in this forum raised the flag. They give genuine storm spotters observers a bad name.


Edited by ozone doug (03/02/2018 11:06)
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#1451397 - 03/02/2018 10:59 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Drought declared]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 143
Drought declared here is what the BOM have said for the Cyclone outlook in the Coral Sea. (I have directly copied and pasted from their site.

*********
Summary of the Tropical Cyclone Seasonal Outlook for Queensland

A 54% chance of an above average number of tropical cyclones in the Coral Sea (average number is 4).

* In a typical year the Eastern Region experiences around four cyclones.

* On average, one cyclone crosses the coast.

* The outlook accuracy for the Eastern Region is low.
********

Judging by that I as yet can't make the same statement you have. Also the BOM take the responsibilty of their forecasts, if they get it wrong everyone lets them know, if right no one bats an eye. As occurred during that recent flood event. In terms of the social media, I believe far more damage is being done because the general public sees these at times crazy predictions and still in some way associate it back to the BOM.

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#1451403 - 03/02/2018 12:10 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5086
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
I personally don't have a problem with the social media sites. Even if they charge subscriptions. The caveat though is that our 'professional' media should be of a higher standard and should be calling the social media out for it's failings thereby holding the social media to a higher standard. Problem is professional media is just as bad as the worst social media sites. Sensationalism is running rife in print and visual news outlets and there is basically zero integrity to be found anymore. Especially in the commercial stations.

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#1451419 - 03/02/2018 16:36 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18399
Loc: Burnett Heads
Originally Posted By: bbowen
Drought declared here is what the BOM have said for the Cyclone outlook in the Coral Sea. (I have directly copied and pasted from their site.

*********
Summary of the Tropical Cyclone Seasonal Outlook for Queensland

A 54% chance of an above average number of tropical cyclones in the Coral Sea (average number is 4).

* In a typical year the Eastern Region experiences around four cyclones.

* On average, one cyclone crosses the coast.

* The outlook accuracy for the Eastern Region is low.
********

Judging by that I as yet can't make the same statement you have. Also the BOM take the responsibilty of their forecasts, if they get it wrong everyone lets them know, if right no one bats an eye. As occurred during that recent flood event. In terms of the social media, I believe far more damage is being done because the general public sees these at times crazy predictions and still in some way associate it back to the BOM.


Yep.
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"When it comes to the weather, "occasionally" is better than "not at all".

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#1452832 - 15/02/2018 15:17 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
JuzzyDee Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/01/2011
Posts: 57
Loc: Yeppoon, Qld
Had to revive this one after another atrocious joint venture by the Townsville Chronicle and Rockhampton Morning Bulletin. Apparently our weather hasn't produced sufficient FUD for them this season, so they've gone and found some lunatic who's predicting a cyclone based on sunspot activity, given his forecasts some sort of validation by claiming he successfully predicted Debbie and Yasi, and quote him telling us that a significant category cyclone will form by the end of the month and impact the coast in early March. Only in the very last lines of the article do they state that the official from the BOM doesn't go beyond 10 days and that so far the conditions aren't conducive to support his claims.

Surely these media outlets shouldn't be able to search these people out then parade it as breaking news.

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#1452834 - 15/02/2018 15:22 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
batty Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 04/12/2010
Posts: 410
Loc: Finch Hatton Gorge
yea just saw that too...... shocked
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#1452841 - 15/02/2018 15:53 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: batty]
gympieweather Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 22/09/2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Veteran Weather Station, Queen...
Originally Posted By: batty
yea just saw that too...... shocked


Not just Townsville Chronicle, it's breaking news in the Gympie Times Chronicle as well! Anything for a story it seems...

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#1452843 - 15/02/2018 15:57 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Squeako_88 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 23/09/2005
Posts: 457
Loc: Elimbah 4516
He said the exact same thing late last year in the sunshine coast daily https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/ne...autumn/3300618/ ... but he forecast the same crap year after year after year.


Edited by Squeako_88 (15/02/2018 15:57)
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#1452861 - 15/02/2018 17:02 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Long Road Home Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 08/10/2007
Posts: 8512
Loc: Northern Beaches Syd
I'd like to see some input from qualified Mets and how accurate they believe these 'social media' forecasts are in comparison to what they (the Mets) would be forecasting.

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#1452871 - 15/02/2018 17:28 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
cold@28 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/02/2011
Posts: 2419
Loc: Chillagoe
Seems like there's an across the board, across the planet intention to completely and utterly bamboozle and frighten the general population.

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#1453844 - 22/02/2018 09:55 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 439
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
And then you also get these types of predictions...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queen...e0c1ca83bf6d2e8

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#1453868 - 22/02/2018 12:05 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Flowin]
ozthunder Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 3117
Loc: Mt Warrigal, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: Flowin
And then you also get these types of predictions...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queen...e0c1ca83bf6d2e8


We have been doing it wrong all these years !

The September / October predictions will be the telling ones.
_________________________
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#1453877 - 22/02/2018 13:44 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ifishcq Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 31/01/2018
Posts: 76
Loc: Rockhampton
Now we are going to Cat 6

I bet the media will be lapping that up

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/categ...ter-says/527541

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#1454080 - 23/02/2018 15:46 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Kino Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2185
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Won't happen. NZ Cat 5 isn't even a true Cat 5 lol. How about they align with the rest of the world first, then they won't need Cat 6.

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#1455145 - 28/02/2018 18:12 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
rasaq Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 26/02/2018
Posts: 1
I am wonder about the different reports on social medias concerning weather conditions here in Kurdistan....
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#1455569 - 04/03/2018 07:29 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: ifishcq]
Nev Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 21/10/2006
Posts: 614
Loc: Waiheke Island, Auckland, NZ
Originally Posted By: ifishcq
Now we are going to Cat 6

I bet the media will be lapping that up

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/categ...ter-says/527541


Those wind speed figures quoted by NZ's Green Party leader and newly appointed Climate Change Minister are complete garbage. The NZ MetService uses the same TC Category Scale as the BoM, Fiji Met and JMA, i.e. a Cat 5 has 10-minute mean winds greater than 200 km/h with no upper limit (3-minute gusts may also exceed 280 km/h).

Some of the region's strongest recent TC's in terms of max 10-minute mean-wind include:

TC Winston in 2016 - Nadi 232 km/h, JTWC 253 km/h (1-minute 287 km/h)
TC Pam in 2015 - Nadi 250 km/h, JTWC 238 km/h (1-minute 270 km/h)
TC Monica in 2006 - BoM 250 km/h, JTWC 251 km/h (1-minute 285 km/h)
TC Zoe in 2002 - Nadi at 240 km/h, JTWC 251 km/h (1-minute 285 km/h)


Edited by Nev (04/03/2018 07:33)

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#1455575 - 04/03/2018 09:03 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 315
Loc: Kyabram
So Nev you can point out the truth and show us but the ABC didnt bother. They just reported what he said. So now those who trust the media will just go "wow i didnt know that" and accept what was said to be true because the media, as in the ABC reported it so it must be true because we all trust the ABC.

I've always said the media should just report the facts and leave their own spin and opinion well away from the facts. Why didnt the ABC investigate his claims as quoted and report those as well just as you have. Is that their job or not? Should we rely an the media to give us just what was quoted or should the media fact check and present to us both sides of an argument so we can make an informed decison?

Most people will just read what was publised and not question it, not question what the minster said and then we have a missinformed public because they only got one side of the story.

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#1455647 - 04/03/2018 17:08 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Nev Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 21/10/2006
Posts: 614
Loc: Waiheke Island, Auckland, NZ
Oops... of course I meant, '3-second gusts may also exceed 280 km/h' (not '3-minute gusts…')... blush

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#1455745 - 05/03/2018 10:04 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5086
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Cairns post and co running with a cyclone story today based on a social media site they reference as being 'the only person to predict last weeks townsville deluge'. Surely this crap has to be a good reason for professional media to be regulated. There should be severe penalties for this sort of crap.

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#1455917 - 06/03/2018 12:57 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Kino Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2185
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Wonder if the media and said social-media sites are feeling a tad sheepish today after NO models have a cyclone anywhere near the QLD east coast anymore?

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#1455923 - 06/03/2018 13:56 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 143
Unfortunately Kino, this is the part that never gets aired. It would be nice to see these sites and news sources forced to print retractions or the other side for balance.

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#1455930 - 06/03/2018 15:26 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2560
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
The only thing professional about the media is the pro bit if you know what I mean. And sadly, social media aids chinese whispers. Couple that with low IQ in the media and this sort of thing is to be expected.


Edited by Knot (06/03/2018 15:27)
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If you can't change something, there is only one option. Adapt!

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#1456078 - 07/03/2018 15:33 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
gympieweather Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 22/09/2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Veteran Weather Station, Queen...
It's not BoM's fault at all, it is the Media with exaggeration, links to the wrong source of information plus their own Bios on the story to keep it exciting...
Here we go again, I'm sure that this is out of context for a bit of drama.
Gympie Times
STORY
Cyclone chance firms as bureau remains on watch
by Cas Garvey (7 Mar 2018, 11:30 AM)
A monsoon trough is developing in the Gulf with the potential to form into a tropical cyclone at the weekend. Meanwhile Cyclone Hola formed overnight near Vanuatu (far right of picture).
THE weather bureau continues to be on cyclone watch, with the chance of two cyclones forming over the next week.

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#1456081 - 07/03/2018 15:56 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: gympieweather]
ifishcq Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 31/01/2018
Posts: 76
Loc: Rockhampton
Originally Posted By: gympieweather
It's not BoM's fault at all, it is the Media with exaggeration, links to the wrong source of information plus their own Bios on the story to keep it exciting...
Here we go again, I'm sure that this is out of context for a bit of drama.
Gympie Times
STORY
Cyclone chance firms as bureau remains on watch
by Cas Garvey (7 Mar 2018, 11:30 AM)
A monsoon trough is developing in the Gulf with the potential to form into a tropical cyclone at the weekend. Meanwhile Cyclone Hola formed overnight near Vanuatu (far right of picture).
THE weather bureau continues to be on cyclone watch, with the chance of two cyclones forming over the next week.


Had a similar thing to that story on local FM radio station here in Rockhampton today. Already the bread & milk has started to vanish from the supermarket shelves.

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#1456082 - 07/03/2018 16:38 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
gympieweather Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 22/09/2002
Posts: 143
Loc: Veteran Weather Station, Queen...
It's not so far out of context really because we know that TC Hola has already formed but not in our AOR. Then you have the current situation with the potential of another forming in the Gulf, being two cyclones. I believe TC Hola will go pole-ward before coming close to the East of Australia and the one in the Gulf will wobble but ultimately go West. When you combine this article with the hype that has gone on during the last two days of a cyclone crossing the east coast, it is really misleading to the general public with such blurred information being presented to them.

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#1456084 - 07/03/2018 17:15 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
scott12 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 10/11/2015
Posts: 983
Loc: maadi Tully area
“However, the one to watch will be at the end of February into March,” he said.
“I predicted Cyclone Debbie, Yasi, Oswald and Marcia.”

https://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/ne...c9d9e33dc529999

That's disgraceful to use that as a headline back in November..

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#1456086 - 07/03/2018 17:47 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Funkyseefunkydo Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/04/2007
Posts: 606
Loc: East Lake Macquarie
Noticed daily mail has a story running that this winter will be the coldest ever. Snow in places that don’t get snow. Quoting some Dave Taylor who has 4000 followers on FB page.

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#1456094 - 07/03/2018 18:53 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Steve O Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 02/03/2011
Posts: 3133
Loc: Beenleigh, QLD
Thats crazy, cant believe that stuff is going on. Start of spring Garry Youngberry on 9 was saying it was going to be dry as and bad bushfire season...

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#1456096 - 07/03/2018 19:23 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ozone doug Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 1797
Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the West...
Where's Ken Ring. He's been quiet lately lol. March you gotta watch always a cyclone somewhere in march.
_________________________
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BOM Stormspotter G0388 Roma S W Queensland Formerly Redcliffe.
https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IQUEENSL852

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#1456099 - 07/03/2018 19:44 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
scott12 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 10/11/2015
Posts: 983
Loc: maadi Tully area
Yeah well the odds are pretty high that we will get a cyclone in the Coral sea in March,any March, but you cant run a headline that specifies the actual week and that it will hit the coast 3 months out based on Sunspot activity..but the media sees no problem in doing just that...


and yep I also read that we are facing a veritable ice age this winter..and once again based on those pesky sunspots and the fact that's its been cold in the Northern hemisphere.....!

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#1456108 - 07/03/2018 20:46 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 439
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
The mention of cyclone seems to be a trigger for the media.
Not much ineterest when the forecast for tomorrow is same as today, and not that much different to yesterday.

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#1456118 - 07/03/2018 22:17 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5086
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Nothing wrong with theorizing on solar activity. Makes sense it would have an effect but making predictions is idiotic and professional media running with those predictions is borderline criminal.

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#1456229 - 08/03/2018 18:12 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Markus Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/12/2010
Posts: 2172
Loc: Clare, SA
Damn social media has utterly destroyed competent and accurate weather reporting. It seems to get worse by the day

I think the dailymail would have to be taking the lead on this in recent weeks though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ok_australiageo

Take a look at their opening 'points' and the vast majority of the general public still can't figure out that this is BS and based on absolutely nothing. The comments section is filled with people blaming the BoM saying 'they' always get it wrong, and the usual can't be mentioned debate and how this proves it wrong.

This alone shows well the extent of a problem that will never go away because the majority of people are utterly clueless when it comes to weather.

TBH I'm half tempted to start my own page. Seems pretty damn lucrative spreading as much misinformation and hype as possible. The trick is to be confident in your own BS and even if you're completely wrong there will be no accountability.

Idk if social media is making the problem worse or simply showing us the extent of gullibility in people that was already there but it makes you wonder about the future of humans lol.
_________________________
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http://markdawsonphoto.wordpress.com/

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#1456521 - 10/03/2018 15:44 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 143
Markus, Nicely said.

I wonder if it is possible to get the traditional media (can't care/control the social crap), along to some sort of weather forum/event be it BOM/tourism or government (any level) backed. With the aim of holding a mirror up to themselves and seeking accountability. Or am I asking to much for facts to be included in a story?

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#1456563 - 10/03/2018 21:49 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7448
Loc: Central Adelaide Hills
With regard to traditional media (e.g. News Segments on Free-to-Air), I distinctly remember a show called “Quantum” aired on ABC TV back in the 1990s, or was it the 1980s; don’t know, not going to bother at the moment with the finer detail on that. The point is – on that show, everything that was presented was factual – and all information was relevant, derived or deduced from factual content. Both explicitly and implicitly, directly and indirectly. This was my impression. The fact I can recall the show – documentary more-or-less, means its appeal, in terms of an honest representation of what was going on in the world of science, spoke volumes (no pun intended).

So in terms of the impact of traditional media on our understanding of the weather, my suggestion is to not simplify anything – to tell it as it is, like they did on Quantum smile .


Edited by Seira (10/03/2018 21:50)

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#1456575 - 10/03/2018 22:36 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 315
Loc: Kyabram
I recall Quantum great science show.It was cancalled and then replaced by Catalyst which was once a great show but i stopped watching it as it became less about science and more about opinions. It got a huge shake up after the statin episode but I still cant be bothered with it or trust it as its too one sided.

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#1456576 - 10/03/2018 22:37 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Seira]
Brett Guy Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 5086
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Originally Posted By: Seira
With regard to traditional media (e.g. News Segments on Free-to-Air), I distinctly remember a show called “Quantum” aired on ABC TV back in the 1990s, or was it the 1980s; don’t know, not going to bother at the moment with the finer detail on that. The point is – on that show, everything that was presented was factual – and all information was relevant, derived or deduced from factual content. Both explicitly and implicitly, directly and indirectly. This was my impression. The fact I can recall the show – documentary more-or-less, means its appeal, in terms of an honest representation of what was going on in the world of science, spoke volumes (no pun intended).

So in terms of the impact of traditional media on our understanding of the weather, my suggestion is to not simplify anything – to tell it as it is, like they did on Quantum smile .


Good point. Present facts and allow the general public to arrive at their own conclusions. Problem is neither side want to do that anymore. The media either want to push their opinions or push a sensational headline which will increase traffic and therefore advertising revenue and the general public is either unwilling or unable to think for themselves anymore. As a society we are becoming less intelligent by the day and would rather be told what to think and what to say(repeat). Question is, how do we get back to the point where people actually wanted to learn and figure things out?


Edited by Brett Guy (10/03/2018 22:38)

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#1456595 - 11/03/2018 08:22 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ozone doug Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 1797
Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the West...
Things are getting pretty bad with social media. Anyone can be a expert and charge for it ,And add to that all the fake news now day's and photoshopping so called evidence .Its just blurring the reality for people that fall for it.And losing the trust of people .The world is bad enough with out false information. Brisbane weather is a example of it . Especially when the general media also fall for them. I don't know weather they believe him or just want a good story .
_________________________
Cheers Doug. 491 Doug/ uhf ch40 When severe weather
BOM Stormspotter G0388 Roma S W Queensland Formerly Redcliffe.
https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IQUEENSL852

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#1456603 - 11/03/2018 09:10 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 143
Yeah agree ozone doug, it is trying to figure out how to get that disconnect between the traditional media and social, so that traditional forms can restore their credibility (big task). Right now they feed off each other.
This doesn't exist just for the weather either which is unfortunate.

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#1456624 - 11/03/2018 11:23 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
The problem lies in the fact that the traditional media completely and utterly miscalculated the impact of social media. They stubbornly kept (and keep) rolling out expensive to print and distribute newspapers - which by default only contain yesterday news. By the time they realised that people were buying less papers and the majority of the demographic they thought would never leave the format had smart phones and could access up to the minute information it was too late.
They had to shed staff to keep afloat which in turn started the vicious circle of reliance on leads from the public. The traditional media also started their own FB sites but mysteriously added paywalls to their www news sites.
The ‘public’ in turn had already become accustomed to free news and turned to those free social media sites.
So the journos really have no choice, they are under the pump to still file their reports but it has to be ‘current’ and attract an audience (click bait).
So grab some info (or a media release!) from a FB page, throw in a sensational headline and you can be sure that a good proportion of the people who follow that same FB page will click through the article.
Or even better the FB page will cross post the article as a form of legitimising their own claims.
It’s not all journos. I’ve worked with good local reporters who just want the public to know the facts but the issue with government agencies is that they are obliged to apply of level of rigour that the FB pages aren’t.
It’s a statistical thing but trying to put it simply, BOM has to give a report that’s got say an 85% chance of being right. The FB guys can (and do) throw out the 15% wildcards.
And that does not always make for a good headline.

Perhaps there’s a opportunity to legislate who can legitimately call themselves a weather forecaster?

The flip side is that the disaster management community do genuinely want as many people to know about impending events as possible.
So when BOM Qld has 115k followers on twitter but HSC has 700k on FB the question for those people is ‘is any coverage good coverage?’

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#1456628 - 11/03/2018 11:57 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7448
Loc: Central Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: Brett Guy
Question is, how do we get back to the point where people actually wanted to learn and figure things out?

Generally, I would say an incentive would be needed to get back into the swing of not feeling overwhelmed by the 24-hour/7-day-a-week news cycle, and the bombardment of information with not enough time to adequately process and filter it all through for relevance and accuracy. An incentive could also be a twin-edged sword. For example, it might take a natural disaster for various demographics to go “hang on a minute – this is not on!”…Or it could be through our will, where it is realise information supply might slow down in order to be able to process all the unfiltered information out there. I’d think it would depend a lot on an awareness of the consequences of what would happen if facts were (more-or-less) drowned out by sensationalism in the face of crisis. It raises some interesting questions in itself.

Originally Posted By: wilyms
It’s not all journos. I’ve worked with good local reporters who just want the public to know the facts but the issue with government agencies is that they are obliged to apply of level of rigour that the FB pages aren’t.

That sounds like good insight smile , in some sense [the government thing that is].

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#1456629 - 11/03/2018 11:59 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: wilyms]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18399
Loc: Burnett Heads
Originally Posted By: wilyms
The problem lies in the fact that the traditional media completely and utterly miscalculated the impact of social media. They stubbornly kept (and keep) rolling out expensive to print and distribute newspapers - which by default only contain yesterday news. By the time they realised that people were buying less papers and the majority of the demographic they thought would never leave the format had smart phones and could access up to the minute information it was too late.
They had to shed staff to keep afloat which in turn started the vicious circle of reliance on leads from the public. The traditional media also started their own FB sites but mysteriously added paywalls to their www news sites.
The ‘public’ in turn had already become accustomed to free news and turned to those free social media sites.
So the journos really have no choice, they are under the pump to still file their reports but it has to be ‘current’ and attract an audience (click bait).
So grab some info (or a media release!) from a FB page, throw in a sensational headline and you can be sure that a good proportion of the people who follow that same FB page will click through the article.
Or even better the FB page will cross post the article as a form of legitimising their own claims.
It’s not all journos. I’ve worked with good local reporters who just want the public to know the facts but the issue with government agencies is that they are obliged to apply of level of rigour that the FB pages aren’t.
It’s a statistical thing but trying to put it simply, BOM has to give a report that’s got say an 85% chance of being right. The FB guys can (and do) throw out the 15% wildcards.
And that does not always make for a good headline.

Perhaps there’s a opportunity to legislate who can legitimately call themselves a weather forecaster?

The flip side is that the disaster management community do genuinely want as many people to know about impending events as possible.
So when BOM Qld has 115k followers on twitter but HSC has 700k on FB the question for those people is ‘is any coverage good coverage?’


Great post and all true. Write law to ensure only qualified mets can issue forecasts and reform the main stream media. Not easy but definitely required.

Sensationalism of weather events may feed the needs of some and be great for subscription bait but it affects the health and well being of the 1000's traumatised by the very mention of floods or cyclones.
_________________________
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#1456676 - 11/03/2018 18:25 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 315
Loc: Kyabram
Then you get those people who continue to share random factless crap that aligns with their own "agenda" You know the ones:

Don't buy Cadbury easter eggs because they don't put the word easter on the packets anymore because that will offend muslims.

The post about the Queensland school principal who wrote to the parents that they wouldn't be banning pork in their canteen despite the request form the muslims.

The posts that say refugees get 4 times in social welfare payments than Aussie pensioners do.

The post that says a capiscum with four end bumps is female and a three bump one is male.

The post from an italian immigrant telling new Australians to get with the program or go home.

Simple Google searches can always find the truth about these posts and you challenge those that post this claptrap and they still stick with this crap and don't delete it and continue to post BS "factual" posts without checking anything.

Those that do post this want to believe it so they share and those that want to believe it will share it as well spreading the "truth" to those that want to believe and they never challenge it because it aligns to their prejudices and intelligence. It's on the net so it must be true.

Too many use Facebook a their only source of "facts/news" and that is so very scary,

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#1456687 - 11/03/2018 19:44 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2560
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
The trouble with journos is conceit. They think they are the vanguard. Of something. That something is the 'edge'. The edge of everything. The cultural edge. The weather and climate edge. The tolerance edge. The dietary edge. The fashion edge.


Edited by Knot (11/03/2018 19:44)
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#1456693 - 11/03/2018 20:15 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
won’t say where but I just read some comments I found extraordinary

: Cyclones are very predictable in their tracks ~

Followed by

Science is far more advance now than even 10 years ago. Models are far more capable of predicting steering patterns for these systems. I don't think there has been a system in the past 5 years which has "surprised" us in its tracks except for a system which jumped from Townsville to Bowen overnight (supposed to make landfall near Townsville, it jumped South to Bowen and possibly even further).. I think that was Dylan in 2014, but even that was widely influenced by other characteristics and its a long discussion haha.... bottom line is in the last 5 years there hasn't been a surprise package apart from "possibly" Dylan (if that was the correct system) smile ~


Err, wasn’t Debbie progged for Townsville until the last minute?
Didn’t Marcia suddenly hang a left on approach to the coast??
Let’s not even go there regarding sudden intensity change

If they were that predicable I doubt forums like this would exist

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#1456709 - 11/03/2018 22:37 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Kino Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2185
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
It’s not only the cyclone social media sites I saw one today warning about possible ‘black Saturday type conditions’ next weekend. A full 7 days away and hundreds of model runs.

Like the old saying goes “put information in the hands of a fool; they’re still a fool” or something like that wink

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#1456887 - 13/03/2018 08:15 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
Speaking of fools:

Bom's forecast says its a low chance of forming into a cyclone however may not come near the Queensland coast and if it does on Wednesday or Thursday
Do u have better technology than they do or just different opinions?
Page responded privately · 10 · 13 hrs
Remove
Higgins Storm Chasing
Higgins Storm Chasing Considering they're the outliers from every other agency in the world and their opinion clearly doesn't support any models at the moment... I don't really care what they think smile ~Thomas


Wow, just wow.

I do like this guy though:

We have decades of experience between myself and Jeff, we don't use "apps" for forecasts.. we use raw data ~Thomas

Hi before I join can you pm me your qualifications please this is a serious question I am deciding on joining



No reply to that of course


And no wonder it takes them 18 hours a day to generate a ‘forecast’ if they are truely using raw data (not models)
I used to find their page a source of amusement and a place to easily see the outlier scenarios but that stuff is just scary.

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#1456892 - 13/03/2018 08:33 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld



Digital platforms inquiry
Issues paper26 February 2018

On 26 February 2018 the ACCC released an issues paper seeking feedback on issues relevant to its Digital Platforms Inquiry.

The ACCC is interested in a range of issues including:

assessing the market power of digital platforms
the implications of digital platforms for media content creators, advertisers and consumers
longer term trends in the media and advertising services markets
the effectiveness of existing regulation and proposals for change.
Submissions to the issues paper will close on 3 April 2018.

ACCC Digital Platform Issues paper link

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#1457044 - 13/03/2018 20:46 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
bbowen Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/03/2011
Posts: 143
Excellent find wilyms. To add a little more to your post. You can also complete a questionnaire to be submitted to the enquiry. I would hope/urge that everyone has their input.

https://consultation.accc.gov.au/communications/consumer-portal/

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#1457230 - 15/03/2018 10:46 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Kino Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2185
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Surprised no one saw this as yet:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-15/hi...orecast/9549878

Our mates Higgins copping a pasting.


Edited by Kino (15/03/2018 10:46)

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#1457242 - 15/03/2018 12:00 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Kino]
ifishcq Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 31/01/2018
Posts: 76
Loc: Rockhampton
And so he should.
All my work colleges were running around here on Monday saying "A cyclone is going to hit Yeppoon in a couple days". "Higgins is saying its coming to CQ" they said.

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#1457258 - 15/03/2018 13:51 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Kino]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
Originally Posted By: Kino
Surprised no one saw this as yet:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-15/hi...orecast/9549878

Our mates Higgins copping a pasting.


Saw it, loved it especially the headline

Actually also a reasonably balanced article where they gave hsc right of reply (which was nonsensical and ironic at the same time)

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#1457266 - 15/03/2018 14:38 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2560
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
I wouldn't glorify the Bom as purveyors of forecasting 'truth' 180 degrees from Higgins ravings.
It has been the case, in short term and long term forecasts, too numerous to mention, that the Bom has been wrong. Leaving aside the subject of spurious press releases, fudged data etc etc which has only been highlighted by citizen weather enthusiasts. The media pedals Bom claptrap just as willingly as Higgins claptrap.


Edited by Knot (15/03/2018 14:40)
_________________________
If you can't change something, there is only one option. Adapt!

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#1457267 - 15/03/2018 14:41 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Knot]
Kino Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2185
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Originally Posted By: Knot
I wouldn't glorify the Bom as purveyors of forecasting 'truth' 180 degrees from Higgins ravings.
It has been the case, in short term and long term forecasts, too numerous to mention, that the Bom has been wrong. Leaving aside the subject of spurious press releases, fudged data etc etc


Agree 1000% - they are almost the same as Higgins - they determine what the Public should/shouldn't know and in doing so gave rise to the alternate weather sites. If the BoM would be more like the NOAA, for e.g., the perhaps these alternates wouldn't get much oxygen. Added to that the religious zeal re: 'climate change' also sees them lose all credibility IMO.

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#1457272 - 15/03/2018 15:10 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
NotsohopefulPete Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 24/12/2008
Posts: 1182
Loc: Toowoomba
Very serious accusations above!

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#1457273 - 15/03/2018 15:26 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Mike Hauber Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 13/07/2007
Posts: 3091
Loc: Buderim
Poor article. The prime criticism being that some farmer in SW Qld hundreds of kilometers away from where the heavy rain was forecast got only 7 mm. The type of thing fairly typical of the BOM bashers. More focus should have been made on the extremity of Higgins claims trying to compare the event to 74 etc.

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#1457278 - 15/03/2018 16:13 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Markus Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/12/2010
Posts: 2172
Loc: Clare, SA
The reality is the BoM do an inadequate job of weather forecasting in Australia. Their forecasts are so bloody basic these days (at least what is available for free) and their longterm forecasts so unreliable is it any wonder people are opting for alternative services.

I don't blame BoM though, I blame the government and their lack of funding.

As for the article, it makes no difference. He will twist the facts and his followers will believe it, and they will spread the mis-information further across the net and he'll end up with even more followers. The guy could get it wrong 100 times in a row and people would say, "yeah but you can't be right everytime", while these people simultaneously bash everyone else for getting it 'wrong'. Gotta love the point scoring world of weather forecasting lol.
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http://markdawsonphoto.wordpress.com/

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#1457281 - 15/03/2018 16:22 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Long Road Home Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 08/10/2007
Posts: 8512
Loc: Northern Beaches Syd
If I had a follower for every time I've seen "Don't worry about the haters, you guys do a fantastic job" in the comment section of Higgin's statuses, I'd probably have more than his page does.

True about the BoM, ever since their introduction of the automated forecasts, the accuracy has gone downhill. The event that sticks in the mind is the slow moving storm that dumped over 100mm in 2 hours on Penrith back in early 2012, people rescued from their homes by boat. The forecast for the day was something like "60% chance of a late shower". No human input = fail.

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#1457287 - 15/03/2018 17:23 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Steve O Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 02/03/2011
Posts: 3133
Loc: Beenleigh, QLD
The weather is serious business it affects everyone. How can you cut funding to an organisation like the BOM. There is so much wrong with Facebook everyone has an opinion thats how wars start. On the other hand it is one of the biggest changes to the modern world attached to the press of a button. Its just too easy until the next thing that comes along and revolutions how we do and see things it won't last forever.

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#1457292 - 15/03/2018 17:57 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
liberator Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/11/2010
Posts: 315
Loc: Kyabram
Then we get the media going mad for all of those huge downpours we were going to get a few months back - 200ml plus in some areas.

The media were having a feeding frenzy. Yeah we got about 70ml up this way but the way it was being reported it was the coming of armageddon and people were asking where's Noah's Ark? So whos at fault? The BOM for warning of the potential or the media for their feeding frenzy?

I still recall front pages of a paper who had pictures of the Melbourne streets flooding from many many years ago. Did it happen per these new stories. So whos to blame?

The BOM for the forecasts or the media for the sensationalist reporting? I don't recall it being as a significant event as reported below. Better to be safe than sorry if it did come off as forecast and not reported there would be calls for blood.

https://museumsvictoria.com.au/sciencewo...tes-march-2018/

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#1457294 - 15/03/2018 18:16 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
retired weather man Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/07/2007
Posts: 4539
Loc: Wynnum
As a former BoM employee I note the funding comments. These cuts began with a new Hawke/Keating initiative called " Efficiency Dividends " in 1985, which applied to all Comm. departments. Translated, this meant start getting rid of staff and start bringing in the machines to replace them to save money.

I left BoM 10 years later in the early days of automation when stations were still fully staffed 24/7 in most cases on larger airports, 21 hours on smaller airports.

We operated all equipment - radars, sondes, chart plotting - manually and on larger airports alongside the forecasters. If a developing weather situation was noted we notified the forecasters straight away and action was taken. Although we did routine 30 minute manual observations ( more in bad weather for aviation ) if no forecaster was available, we would ring up Brisbane and advise the duty Met. if something was cropping up, and again action was taken.

An example of staffing changes - in Townsville in the mid 80's, there were 26 staff - Technicians, Mets, Aviation briefing officers, Communication staff, Plotters, Weather observers/radar/sonde operators - covering 24/7.. Today, and I might be wrong here, Ken could verify, I think there are 1 to 3 staff, and soon to be zero, if not already.
_________________________
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#1457297 - 15/03/2018 19:19 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ozone doug Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 1797
Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the West...
I visited the Moree station in 2012 and was only one person running it at the time i was there in the morning and watched the weather radar/sonde and observer and spent about 1 1/2 hrs there.
_________________________
Cheers Doug. 491 Doug/ uhf ch40 When severe weather
BOM Stormspotter G0388 Roma S W Queensland Formerly Redcliffe.
https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IQUEENSL852

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#1457305 - 15/03/2018 20:33 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 439
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
I don't have a problem with the Facebook rogue forecasters, for a very simple reason. I don't use Facebook and I have no plans to.
I think a big missing part in this perceived problem is that all people need to be more discerning in what they read and believe. We are humans not sheep.

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#1457309 - 15/03/2018 20:55 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Flowin]
cold@28 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/02/2011
Posts: 2419
Loc: Chillagoe
Originally Posted By: Flowin
I don't have a problem with the Facebook rogue forecasters, for a very simple reason. I don't use Facebook and I have no plans to.
I think a big missing part in this perceived problem is that all people need to be more discerning in what they read and believe. We are humans not sheep.


People will never be more discerning. Most people simply *trust* and don't and won't believe people are out to hoodwink them or rip them off, until they are individually affected. It's unfortunate but most people won't even allow you to say anything different. But that's the way the world is.

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#1457316 - 15/03/2018 21:33 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Flowin]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2560
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
Originally Posted By: Flowin
I don't have a problem with the Facebook rogue forecasters, for a very simple reason. I don't use Facebook and I have no plans to.


A simple, effective strategy. I got into farcebook when it kicked off. But I gave it the flick ages ago. Got sick of reading what people had for breakfast he he.
_________________________
If you can't change something, there is only one option. Adapt!

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#1457317 - 15/03/2018 21:35 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Flowin]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7448
Loc: Central Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: Flowin
I think a big missing part in this perceived problem is that all people need to be more discerning in what they read and believe. We are humans not sheep.

People [plural] may be more discerning if individuals [singular] are not treated like sheep... I had a little LOL about that too smile .

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#1457354 - 16/03/2018 09:25 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Snowies Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/10/2001
Posts: 1987
Loc: Westbury
Be an interesting day if one of the social media sites (especially one taking money) is sued for their forecasts. Could easily be a farmer or a group of farmers who invest based on a climatic forecast for the season ahead or something similar. Not that anyone is likely to sue for a severe storm/flood that never comes. As the BOM found out in the late 90's, you're more likely to get sued for the forecasts/warnings you don't make when there is a large storm just down the road.

Many of these sites are quick to pick up the errors that other forecasting organisations have made, but are blind to their own - or at least have justified their own errors.

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#1457473 - 17/03/2018 04:13 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Knot]
Long Road Home Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 08/10/2007
Posts: 8512
Loc: Northern Beaches Syd
Originally Posted By: Knot
Originally Posted By: Flowin
I don't have a problem with the Facebook rogue forecasters, for a very simple reason. I don't use Facebook and I have no plans to.


A simple, effective strategy. I got into farcebook when it kicked off. But I gave it the flick ages ago. Got sick of reading what people had for breakfast he he.


Having coco pops today, yum yum laugh

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#1457474 - 17/03/2018 06:43 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2560
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
Ha ha. Good one
_________________________
If you can't change something, there is only one option. Adapt!

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#1457485 - 17/03/2018 08:55 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
We can only hope:

The only thing that has changed is that NO HSC administrator including myself will conduct any form of media interviews in the future. They manipulate and twist the facts of what we do or say to them.

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#1457510 - 17/03/2018 10:39 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Snowies]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18399
Loc: Burnett Heads
Originally Posted By: Snowies
As the BOM found out in the late 90's, you're more likely to get sued for the forecasts/warnings you don't make when there is a large storm just down the road.



I recall one of those events where a storm formed just west of Brisbane and ruined a weekend market. The media went to town on BoM for limited warning and yet I saw the warnings for severe storms the night before on the news IN THE WHITSUNDAYS.

I get sick of people blaming BoM for their own inability to comprehend variability or being too lazy to stick their heads out the window and look up. It's easy to crap on about the cuts and lack of funding every time a forecast goes wrong but ultimately it is really about one's own ignorance.

The weather is chaos and certainly seldom goes to plan. Maybe when people accept that fact they will stop blaming others.
_________________________
"When it comes to the weather, "occasionally" is better than "not at all".

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#1457516 - 17/03/2018 11:20 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ozone doug Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 1797
Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the West...
I was filmed and interviewed in 2010 floods in Roma .Ch TEN and Qld premier at my place Never saw the interview till a year later . We were warned but got trapped when a wall of water came water earlier than expected And was able to get next door that was a high house and watch our house go under.There was a big deal about the gas guys helping and being filmed at my place , Unfortunately stuff that was in my gaurge that i said to leave and i would see what i could salvage later was stolen probably about $1000 dollars worth I hope it was a mistake .. I was shocked at how i looked i suppose after a couple day with out sleep and dealing with the clean up inch of mud in the house and walls Glad i put a sand bag in the toilet before leaving Got to think of the little things lol.
_________________________
Cheers Doug. 491 Doug/ uhf ch40 When severe weather
BOM Stormspotter G0388 Roma S W Queensland Formerly Redcliffe.
https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IQUEENSL852

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#1457546 - 17/03/2018 14:15 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: ColdFront]
BIG T Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 24/01/2012
Posts: 1088
Loc: Albany Creek , QLD
CF I was there that day , it was the kelvin grove markets on a sat morning, was always going to be an epic storm day , we saw it coming in fast , checked radar , had a laugh and decided to take shelter on an eastern facing wall that had bench seats. Literally until the moment the wind hit , hardly anyone had taken any notice. There were gazebos going airborne and twisting all over the place and they all looked surprised. I couldn’t believe how some complained about no warnings , when in fact there was . Some folk just walk around in a daze ignorant of their surroundings I reckon.

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#1457715 - 18/03/2018 11:49 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
It’s about funding AND adaptation. Like I wrote earlier the mainstream media fluffed it completely about the rise and impact of social media.
Same with government agencies

Only those who have worked in them can possibly understand the bureaucracy (and BOM has part of that word in their name so what hope there!) and change in government has been described as turning a supertanker- it happens slowly.

The first adopters were those organisations who actually saw their ‘customers’ face to face. Think QPS and their often lighthearted Twitter feed.

Other organisations like BOM who just do their job and then passively release info have come along a lot later. They now produce high quality video forecasts along with all the normal day to day material. And when I say day to day I mean hundreds of products

But with, I assume, no new positions just like everywhere else and then funding cuts (either actual or worse by stealth where funding doesn’t keep up with inflation) the people working there are asked to do more with less

The real issue that comes with any government organisation entering the social media sphere is the expectation of instant information and updates. Because of the above net funding and resource cuts things take long and so the response time isn’t there. Even if you are lucky enough to have media people, they only work Monday to Friday so unlike the FB pages you can’t do a quick update over Sunday breakfast

So it’s a no win situation really - BOM is trying to be relevant by being in social media but by doing so is also making a rod for its back. They can’t be everything to everyone but are expected to be - as the point of truth.

More funding would help I’m sure but then joe public’s expectations just go up as well.

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#1457718 - 18/03/2018 11:58 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2560
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
Bom - 'the point of truth'
Hilarious.
_________________________
If you can't change something, there is only one option. Adapt!

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#1457732 - 18/03/2018 13:02 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Knot]
Kino Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/08/2017
Posts: 2185
Loc: Wollongong, NSW, Aus
Originally Posted By: Knot
Bom - 'the point of truth'
Hilarious.


Agree. The primary reason alternate weather info sites, even like Weatherzone, rose to such significance is directly attributable to the BoM and they ultra-conservative behaviours and refusal to adapt. I'll say again, contrast the NOAA, a publicly funded organisation, with the BoM and there is no comparison . The NOAA tell it as it is warts and all. The BoM 'censor' information.

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#1457783 - 18/03/2018 16:40 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: wilyms]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7448
Loc: Central Adelaide Hills
Originally Posted By: wilyms
They [the Bureau] can’t be everything to everyone but are expected to be - as the point of truth.

[], Bold Added.
I strongly agree. And that's my view -- not taking "sides" smile .

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#1457812 - 18/03/2018 19:52 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Knot]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
Originally Posted By: Knot
Bom - 'the point of truth'
Hilarious.


Sorry but you couldn’t be more wrong and have obviously never worked in disaster management. BOM briefings are the back bone of agency decision making.

I agree that the easily accessible, free, publicly available material leaves a lot to be desired but as per my previous post, that wasn’t why the BOM was originally conceived - at least not the extent of information demanded now.

Again, adaptation

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#1458139 - 20/03/2018 20:23 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Drought declared Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 20/02/2015
Posts: 168
The New Messiah has spoken.

Higgins Storm Chasing I will provide no formal comment towards the.... no actually yes I will because I don’t care. They need to be stood up and pointed out for their bureaucratic BS they feed Australia.
The recent animation that they provided was LAME and shows no truth in the ACTUAL global model forecast data that WE have access to on the same level as them.
Keep providing Australia with red tape forecasts meanwhile we will demonstrate exactly how it’s done

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#1458195 - 21/03/2018 08:33 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
Not sure what HSC is on about here (again)

BOMs spaghetti model animation shows two of the three models with a central or slightly western gulf position on Sat 24

HSC’s own spiel says

The exact forecast track of the system between ECMWF and GFS models is varying slightly at this point between the Western or Centre of the Gulf.

Sounds like alignment to me but then I’m not a premium member so I don’t get to see their full ‘forecast’ of a cyclone that hasn’t even developed yet

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#1458295 - 21/03/2018 18:11 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2560
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
I have noticed this increasing annoying trend in the media of giving Aboriginal folkloric opinions about weather event causation an airing. Now it is perfectly acceptable for people have to have folkloric tales about such matters. But what is not acceptable in my opinion, is giving such opinions a certain solemnity that in the end undermines the scientific method upon which meteorology presumably rests. I say this after reading an ABC sourced piece in WZ news that concludes with this nonsense

'What are the Larrakia stories about cyclones?
Manmam-ma, or cyclones, are a sign of a troubled planet, according to Larrakia woman and ethno-botanical researcher Lorraine Williams, .
They seem most frequent during dalay, which is the monsoon season running from January to March.
Some Larrakia people say that Cyclone Tracey was brought about by disturbances to the Darriba Nungalinya (Old Man Rock), the sacred site and tidal outcrop near Rapid Creek beach.
To the west of Darwin, in Arnhem Land, .
Burrmalala is regarded as a troublesome family member, and was detected by old people watching the sea breathing and white cockatoos flying away.'



This kind of non sequitur nonsense deserves no more ink wasted on it than a view espoused by a christian that Cyclone Tracy was punishment for transgressions. A publicly voiced opinion along those lines would be roundly condemned. And so should these views expressed by certain people of Aboriginal descent in the NT. Linking natural events like Cyclones to the breaking of taboos, breaking of religious edicts etc etc should be given no favourable focus in the media.

P.s I notice in the article the ABC writer couldn't even spell Cyclone Tracy correctly. Sheeesh


Edited by Knot (21/03/2018 18:21)
_________________________
If you can't change something, there is only one option. Adapt!

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#1458337 - 21/03/2018 23:40 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 439
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
.... Knot you are going into some dangerous territory with that post.

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#1458338 - 21/03/2018 23:46 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: wilyms]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 439
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
Originally Posted By: wilyms


HSC’s own spiel says

The exact forecast track of the system


That says it all for lack of credibility. Anybody who uses the word "exact" in relation to a forecast is not understanding uncertainty in forecasts, or deliberately ignoring uncertainty for a greater motive.
_________________________
Models are for estimating and gauges are for knowledge.

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#1458340 - 22/03/2018 00:47 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18399
Loc: Burnett Heads
Speaking of lack of credibility. No wonder people are confused when lazy news stations can't get the basics right.

_________________________
"When it comes to the weather, "occasionally" is better than "not at all".

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#1458345 - 22/03/2018 05:40 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: Flowin]
Knot Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/05/2014
Posts: 2560
Loc: Toronto N.S.W
Originally Posted By: Flowin
.... Knot you are going into some dangerous territory with that post.


Defending the scientific method against superstition has always been dangerous.
There is no place for folklore, myth, religion, whatever metaphysical jive from any quarter when it comes to cyclone causation. If the dumb as rocks media gets away with it than we might as well start casting lots and examining entrails.
_________________________
If you can't change something, there is only one option. Adapt!

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#1458360 - 22/03/2018 09:19 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: ColdFront]
wilyms Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 06/03/2013
Posts: 145
Loc: Roma, Qld
Yeah he really needs to wear a tie to be credible....... :-)

Just joking - for the record it’s the central pressure figure and that’s a fair gap from the estimated low 920s

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#1459581 - 28/03/2018 16:20 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 18399
Loc: Burnett Heads
Channel 7 at it again this morning, promising 400mm of rain for the Whitsundays next Wednesday. The fun starts Monday apparently so best go empty the supermarket shelves before the shops close for Easter.
_________________________
"When it comes to the weather, "occasionally" is better than "not at all".

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#1463471 - 09/05/2018 20:14 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Flowin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2017
Posts: 439
Loc: Pinjarra Hills, Qld
A factor at play with uninformed commentary, is the dimishing respect for the old two for one paradigm.
We are born with two ears and one mouth. So we should listen twice as much as we speak.
We are born with two eyes and learnt to write with one hand. So we should read twice as much as we write.
But now we have keyboards that we can use with two hands, so keyboard warriors are writing more...
Taking time read (research, learn etc) is critical. I often look for a second credible source

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#1464020 - 17/05/2018 23:44 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
Seira Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 27/08/2003
Posts: 7448
Loc: Central Adelaide Hills
Without traditional and social media use -- by presenters/users -- many people would probably not be aware of what is happening with the weather and climate, if it is not their primary focus. So I'd say that is at least one positive thing about the use of these resources as a medium for conveying information smile .

Another positive (negative connotations or not) is that this stuff is being discussed here smile .


Edited by Seira (17/05/2018 23:51)

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#1464987 - 05/06/2018 00:06 Re: Traditional media & Social media and the impact on weather understanding [Re: bbowen]
poida84 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 11/04/2002
Posts: 590
Loc: buxton,wollondilly
So after reading this whole thread i decided to leave Macarthur storm chasers as admin and removed all my photos from there.... i had issues with one of the admins there who has no idea about weather or how it works.

yet somehow he/she is an expert, post false information about upcoming weather or false reports. For past few years just kept getting worse..

i started to just stick to only taking photos of the storms and putting them up and not even do any warnings just left it for him/her to enjoy the glory or large reach going through the roof or doing local radio interviews which are very cringy as they treat her like a pro MET she would falsely predict armageddon coming in next hour (which never happens) started to get so ridiculous he/she thinks sleet falls at 8C or Snows at 6C she would claim large Hail is falling (i was nearby once no hail LOL)list goes on so yeh you get the picture.. after reading the above i realized how much i was a fool accepting the back lash in comments to defend the page because 1 person thinks they are weather genius... check the page out you will see what i mean..


thank you i feel much better now ill stick to photography and this forum still no more face palm moments...:D

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