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#1189374 - 14/04/2013 08:24 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
Editor's Plate: The Dangers of the Dangers of GMOs

We’ve written before about genetically engineered ingredients (most often referred to as GMOS, for genetically modified organisms), but we’ve never taken so comprehensive a look at the issue as we do in the Wellness Foods section of this website. I strongly urge you to take a look. And then to think hard about it.

Our story does a great job of summarizing credible research on the subject by both sides. And I want to say up front that we try not to take sides on this issue. While we count many Fortune 500 (or, quoting our own list, Top 100) companies among our readers, we probably have just as many smaller companies and ones committed to organics and all-natural products. Ones searching for a niche or trying to make a mark alongside the big guys. We love both groups.

So let me completely turn over the next few paragraphs to GMO Inside, probably the leading organization against GMOs. On its website, on the FAQ page, the group answers the question: “Why should we be concerned about GMOs?”

Human Health Risks: More and more studies point to the idea that there’s grave cause for concern about the health effects of consuming GMOs and the chemicals they are sprayed with, including food allergies, irritable bowels, organ damage, cancer.
Environmental Risks: Seventy-two percent of U.S. GMO crops are engineered to tolerate a certain type of herbicide. But the weeds that these herbicides used to kill are coming back bigger and stronger, creating herbicide-resistant “superweeds” that require greater quantities of more toxic pesticides to eradicate.
The Risk to Farmers in Developing Countries: Every 30 minutes, a farmer commits suicide in India due to meet rising debts, a phenomenon that has been steadily rising since the 1970s. While the causes behind the farmers’ crushing debt and resultant suicides are complex — ranging from unfair government floor prices for cotton to international trade agreements skewed in favor of other countries — GM seeds do appear to play a role.
The Risk to Organic Farmers: Even when a farmer isn’t growing GM crops, contamination can easily occur—through seed mixing or pollen drift from neighboring GM fields. While this contamination is troubling for those of us who wish to avoid GMOs, it can be an economic disaster for organic and family farmers.

That’s it. Just four points. And four of the weakest arguments I’ve ever heard. The boldfaced intros are compelling, but the supporting arguments just don’t hold water.
Nowhere do I see the “more and more studies” alluded to in bullet point one (which introduces the dangers of pesticides and other chemicals, not the dangers of the GMOs themselves). Are bigger weeds the biggest environmental risk they can come up with? Farmers in India committing suicide? How is that relevant? But I'll give them at least some points for the last one, the contamination of organic farms.
I’m sorry. With the superficial knowledge I had going into this subject, and knowing some of the leaders personally, I was hoping to be persuaded to at least abstain from taking sides. But if those are GMO Inside’s best shots, they leave me cold.
I’m bothered by fanatics on any issue. I don’t know where some companies’ fervor ends and market posturing begins. And with only one company (until now) certifying products as GMO-free, I wonder about the profit motive in pushing for labels.
Clearly, however, GMOs are one of those emotional issues. I witnessed that early in March at Natural Products Expo West. For a March 7 press conference and meeting, backers of the various GMO labeling initiatives booked a pretty big room, which legally held 178. I was one of 50 or so people huddled in the lobby. Several more people came, gave up and left during the hourlong event.
It was part press conference and part revival meeting. The emotions in that cramped room ran high.
At the end, I buttonholed an acquaintance from a small but very high-end food company. “I didn’t know you guys were anti-GMO,” I said. “We’re not…not really,” she said. “We’re getting pressured into it from Whole Foods and some other customers. We say we’re organic and natural, but they want non-GMO certification. The cost of the testing, the certification and the repackaging will price us out of the category. I don’t know what to do.”
My advice to her: Make a decision. Take a stand, and proudly stick by it. No one says you have to label “contains GMOs” on your packaging. Not yet, anyway. You just won’t be able to claim “GMO free.” You’ll lose the consumers who care about such certification but retain — within your current price point — the ones that don’t care. Unfortunately, she may lose Whole Foods as a retailer.
The genetically engineered salmon is a whole ’nother story. For some reason, that one scares me. Again, my research on the subject is pretty shallow.
GMO-free labeling is great. I’ll both defend it and be as oblivious to it as I am to gluten-free or peanut-free. If I cared, I’d welcome the label. I don’t, but I defend the rights of those who do care about such labels.
Just don’t force a warning label onto foods that do contain GMOs

http://www.foodprocessing.com/articles/2013/april-fusaro-editors-plate.html
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1189930 - 17/04/2013 16:43 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
Study reveals GMO corn to be highly toxic

A leaked study examining genetically-modified corn reveals that the lab-made alternative to organic crops contains a startling level of toxic chemicals.

An anti-GMO website has posted the results of an education-based consulting company’s comparison of corn types, and the results reveal that genetically modified foods may be more hazardous than once thought.

The study, the 2012 Corn Comparison Report by Profit Pro, was published recently on the website for Moms Across America March to Label GMOs, a group that says they wish to “raise awareness and support Moms with solutions to eat GMO Free as we demand GMO labeling locally and nationally simultaneously.” They are plotting nationwide protests scheduled for later this year.

The report, writes the website’s Zen Honeycutt, was provided by a representative for De Dell Seed Company, an Ontario-based farm that’s touted as being Canadian only non-GMO corn seed company.

“The claims that ‘There is no difference between GMO corn and NON Gmo corn’ are false,” says Honeycutt, who adds she was “floored” after reading the study.

According to the analysis, GMO corn tested by Profit Pro contains a number of elements absent from traditional corn, including chlorides, formaldehyde and glyphosate. While those elements don’t appear naturally in corn, they were present in GMO samples to the tune of 60 ppm, 200pm and 13 ppm, respectively.

Honecutt says that the United States Environmental Protection Agency (FDA) mandates that the level of glyphosate in American drinking water not exceed 0.7 ppm and adds that organ damage in some animals has been linked to glyphosate exposure exceeding 0.1 ppm.

“Glyphosate is a strong organic phosphate chelator that immobilizes positively charged minerals such as manganese, cobalt, iron, zinc [and] copper,” Dr. Don Huber attested during a separate GMO study recently released, adding that those elements “are essential for normal physiological functions in soils, plants and animals.”

“Glyphosate draws out the vital nutrients of living things and GMO corn is covered with it,” adds Honeycutt, who notes that the nutritional benefits rampant in natural corn are almost entirely removed from lab-made seeds: in the samples used during the study, non-GMO corn is alleged to have 437-times the amount of calcium in genetically modified versions, and 56- and 7-times the level of magnesium and manganese, respectively.

These studies come on the heels of a recent decision on Capitol Hill to approve an annual agriculture appropriations bill, even though a provision within the act contained a rider that frees GMO corporations such as the multi-billion-dollar Monsanto Company from liability. The so-called “Monsanto Protection Act,” written by a lawmaker that has lobbied for the agra-giant, says biotech companies won’t need federal approval to test and plant GMO-crops, even if health risks are unknown.

“The provision would strip federal courts of the authority to halt the sale and planting of an illegal, potentially hazardous GE crop while the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) assesses those potential hazards,” reads a letter to the House of Representatives that was delivered to Congress last month with the signatures of dozens of food businesses and retailers, as well as interest groups and agencies representing family farmers. “Further, it would compel USDA to allow continued planting of that same crop upon request, even if in the course of its assessment the Department finds that it poses previously unrecognized risks.”

Link
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1189936 - 17/04/2013 16:59 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
Quote:
Dow and Monsanto have now officially made the deal to move forward with the infamous 'Agent Orange Corn' you have heard of. This new corn will be made to be resistant to not only RoundUp but also 2,4-D, which is half of what Agent Orange was comprised of (the other half was 2,4,5-T). According to Beyond Pesticides, 2,4-D has been linked to "non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, endocrine disruption, reproductive and developmental effects, as well as water contamination and toxicity to aquatic organisms."


_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1190019 - 18/04/2013 08:21 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Andy Double U]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
Originally Posted By: Andy Double U
Interesting... So Yasified, would you be able to enlighten me and others as to exactly how much Roundup Ready/GMO grain finds its way into the human food supply chain directly? Say for instance, what percentage of Corn Flakes sold world wide is flattened GMO corn?


_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1190051 - 19/04/2013 11:26 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
An interesting article on World hungers, now wasn't part of the premise to introduce GM foods is that it would alleviate world hunger? Food security? again more lies on the part of the big biotech companies and others that push their barrows.




Does the world produce enough food to feed everyone?

The world produces enough food to feed everyone.
World agriculture produces 17 percent more calories per person today than it did 30 years ago, despite a 70 percent population increase. This is enough to provide everyone in the world with at least 2,720 kilocalories (kcal) per person per day according to the most recent estimate that we could find.(FAO 2002, p.9). The principal problem is that many people in the world do not have sufficient land to grow, or income to purchase, enough food.

Progress in reducing the number of hungry people

The target set at the 1996 World Food Summit was to halve the number of undernourished people by 2015 from their number in 1990-92. (FAO uses three year averages in its calculation of undernourished people.)The (estimated) number of undernourished people in developing countries was 824 million in 1990-92. In 2010, the number had climbed to 925 million people. The WFS goal is a global goal adopted by the nations of the world; the present outcome indicates how marginal the efforts were in face of the real need.

So, overall, the world is not making progress toward the world food summit goal, although there has been progress in Asia, and in Latin America and the Caribbean.

The Full story.

http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1190191 - 19/04/2013 22:10 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
A recently released report from Food and Drug Administration found that of all the raw ground turkey tested, 81% was contaminated with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Also, according to the National Antimicrobial Resistance Monitoring System, or NARMS, Retail Meat Annual Report, ground turkey wasn't the only problem. Antibiotic-resistant bacteria were found in some 69% of pork chops, 55% of ground beef and 39% of chicken.

In the meat NARMS tested, scientists found significant amounts of salmonella and Campylobacter -- bacteria that cause millions of cases of food poisoning a year.

Consumers demanding drug-free meat How to buy cheaper, better beef FDA to review antibiotic use in animals Food fraud on the rise
Of the chicken tested, 53% was tainted with an antibiotic-resistant form of E.coli, the report said.

Read more: http://tinyurl.com/ckogdwq
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1190219 - 20/04/2013 08:57 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
When/where will it end? once Monsanto have Genetically modified everything on the planet?

Tell USDA to Reject GE Eucalyptus

Tree biotechnology companies are requesting an unprecedented USDA approval: multiple varieties of genetically engineered (GE) eucalyptus trees to be grown in seven southeastern states, and possibly the Pacific Northwest. If approved, this will be the first GE forest tree to be commercially grown in the U.S. Paper and biofuel companies are planning on growing these trees on intensively managed monoculture tree plantations.

http://salsa3.salsalabs.com/o/1881/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=10521
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


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#1190375 - 21/04/2013 13:00 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Greg Sorenson]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics

January 06, 2009 at 04:20 PM | Permalink | TrackBack (0) ShareThisShareThis


Fact Check: Rice Crop Yield Improves With Global Warming, Higher CO2 Levels - Opposite of Alarmist Predictions

(1) http://www.c3headlines.com/

The CAGW climate change alarmists and "experts" fill the mainstream media with frightening tales of looming disasters, including crop failures that will lead to mass starvation - but when compared to global warming reality and actual world rice production and yield, the research and empirical evidence show output results are enhanced, not harmed

(click on images to enlarge, data source, rice image source)

Global warming CO2 and rice crop World rice production co2 levels global warming climate change alarmists 2012

The green-religion fundamentalists have a long history of making crop failure and mass starvation predictions. A 2010 study by a group of academia warming alarmists added to the collection of doom prognostications of coming crop failures, due to anthropogenic warming from human CO2 emissions.

As the above chart on the right indicates however, despite the modest global warming since the 1970's, and the massive increase of human CO2 levels, world rice production increased and continues to do so. Why?

Well, certainly better agriculture methods and technology made fools of the green 'Earth Day' fanatics. In addition, the latest research actually documents with irrefutable evidence that rice crop yield benefits from both warmer temperatures and higher CO2 levels.

Roy et al..."the five researchers from the Central Rice Research Institute of India conducted a three-year open-top-chamber field study to observe the effects of elevated as opposed to ambient atmospheric CO2 concentration (550 vs. 390 ppm), as well as elevated temperature (T, 2°C above ambient temperature), on dry matter production, carbon (C) and nitrogen (N) concentrations in plant parts, and their allocation in a tropical rice cultivar...Results of the experiment revealed the following responses in the elevated CO2/elevated temperature treatment:
(1) Dry matter accumulation in the aboveground portion of the rice plants was enhanced by 18.1% at maturity.
(2) Root biomass, leaf area index and net carbon assimilation rates also increased significantly.
(3) Grain yield was significantly higher (19.6%) in the CO2-enriched treatment.
(4) The net carbon yield increased by 24.2%.
(5) Nitrogen allocation increased significantly in leaf (13%), stem (14%) and panicle (17%) at maturity.
[K.S. Roy, P. Bhattacharyy, S. Neogi, K.S. Rao, T.K. Adhya 2012: Field Crops Research]

Conclusions:

1. Global warming alarmists' predictions of world hunger and mass deaths should not be believed

2. Green agenda-driven foretelling of crop failure and starvation from higher CO2 levels and warmer temperatures are obviously without much merit

3. Rice crop yield and production improvements will likely continue despite the doomsday predictions
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785mm Jan
799mm Feb
130 March
2019 Total 1714mm
2018 Total 822mm






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#1190405 - 21/04/2013 16:02 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
Originally Posted By: SBT
Conclusions:

1. Global warming alarmists' predictions of world hunger and mass deaths should not be believed


Now hang on... wasn't it the GM brigade that started that? after all that was their Mantra why we so desperately needed genetically modified foods...to feed the starving masses! and food security..

Bet they weren't using GM crops there.... grin grin grin
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1190419 - 21/04/2013 17:58 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Greg Sorenson]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
If you contact the original author I feel sure they will provide you with whatever additional information you need and it would surprise me not to see some GM crops involved in that study. Just click on the link above and it will send you directly to them.
_________________________
785mm Jan
799mm Feb
130 March
2019 Total 1714mm
2018 Total 822mm






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#1190739 - 23/04/2013 16:07 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
The other side to Chemical fertilizers (pity it wasn't the big M smirk )


Frantic search ongoing after deadly Texas blast

http://news.yahoo.com/frantic-search-ongoing-deadly-texas-blast-135733543.html

_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1190754 - 23/04/2013 16:36 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
Originally Posted By: @_Yasified_shak
The other side to Chemical fertilizers (pity it wasn't the big M smirk )


Frantic search ongoing after deadly Texas blast

http://news.yahoo.com/frantic-search-ongoing-deadly-texas-blast-135733543.html



And it's when things are said like those above that you know that those who espouse the 'altruistic and morally superior' compassionate values are really nothing more than narcissistic individuals who will pursue any and all means to ram their own agendas down other people's throats.

YS, I can't believe you could write that (and don't try to write it off as some sort of joke or say that you didn't really mean it). To wish ill of your fellow man is disgusting and really just goes to show how highly you value yourself.

Originally Posted By: _Yasified_shak
I have lived life on both sides of the coin being the typical consumerist junkie buying all the useless tech crap that i didn’t really need, i spent the first 3 years of my kids life driving 700+ ks a week to and from work, spending 2 hours a day in traffic, working for 10-12 hours a day just to make a “living” and did it make me happy? no, it didn’t there was no quality of life and at the end of the week there was no money left....

Basically i would get up in the morning and my kids would be asleep.... when i came home at night they were asleep.... i would work Saturdays so would again miss the whole day of being at home, then come Sunday i was knackered and did not want to do anything but my wife wanted to go out so we could do something as a family....
Finally we got to a point where enough was enough i was killing my self for nothing, my marriage was suffering, my kids did not have a dad so we sold the house that we were in for a tidy profit and bought a little shack in Qld outright and with the money we had left over invested that and we have never looked back or been happier, we don’t have to have the latest crap (we only buy something new if it breaks but more than likely will buy it second hand as it will last longer!) and our quality of life is so much better now.


Mate, your name isn't Dick Smith is it? You know him, dorky guy with glasses, made a motza out of consumerism in his electronics stores, has now seen the light and is warning everyone that they don't want what he has had/got. Funny thing is though, he still exists (as do you) based on money and sacrifices made at an earlier point in time and continue to subsidise your own lives based on the capitalist dollar today, shock horror, some of that money that you get back from your investments could even come from the very companies you say you despise so much on this forum.

Ughghg, you're so dazzled by your own brilliance that I know none of this will change your attitudes one iota, I just hope like hell though that others will see through your little charades for what you really are, a self centred individual pursuing a personal vendetta at the cost of your fellow people who are all trying to do the best for themselves and their families.

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#1190782 - 23/04/2013 18:50 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Greg Sorenson]
Tom1234 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1709
Loc: Port Stephens
Does anyone have any decent links to legit info on the GM food industry ?

Half page banners saying Monsanto is evil is not what i want to see.

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#1190792 - 23/04/2013 19:38 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Greg Sorenson]
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1620
Loc: Wangaratta
I work with GM improved turf grasses all the time... Walk on it everyday with bare feet and I have seen no Ill effects..... Bahahahahaha

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#1190862 - 24/04/2013 10:36 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Andy Double U]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
Andy Double U you only chime in here when you "think" that you have something to "add" otherwise you are noticeable absent.

Are you ROM's son or something? or is this ROM's second account? because the way you BOTH word your post's is pretty much exactly the same.......

Point is "some" think that the chemical industry is perfect and can do no wrong.. here is your proof right here that it is dangerous, and is not the first time it has happened.

_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1190867 - 24/04/2013 11:22 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Greg Sorenson]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
lol YS. Nice to know my absence doesn't go unnoticed, thing is though, I'll only post when I think it is worth it. Spamming up a thread with one anti-gm beat up after another is tiresome and boring. No matter what anyone says, you'll never see the world in any other shade except for the one your rose coloured glasses allow you to see in.

Your continuation with your sadly deluded ramblings do you no favours, in fact one could even say that when people resort to macabre posts wishing ill on others based on a pure generalisation, they have nothing. That is you buddy, you have nothing.

Thanks for the ROM comparison! grin I know for a fact that whilst others in these forums may not strictly agree with what ROM says or how he says it, there is plenty of respect out there for him.

I'd like to say this though, despite our obvious ideological differences, I will never wish ill on you or your family for I respect the fact that in our society, diversity and difference of opinion is how things ultimately advance. Unfortunately, the impression that I have seen displayed from you is that the feeling is not mutual. It's pretty sad really.

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#1190875 - 24/04/2013 11:55 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Andy Double U]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
Yes, just like ROM.
His favorite pastime is to resort to personal attacks and belittling when he can't get his point across, or to hit the "ignore button" because he doesn't like what he reads, yes very mature.

The way it is portrayed here is that i am the only one who thinks the way i do, the reality is far from it.
There are plenty more on these forums that share the same views as i but they simply do not want to post for the constant verballing, personal attacks and the like when the other side can't come up with a plausible rebuttal, mods are constantly modifying his post with the direction of attack the topic not the person"

If people stuck to the actual topic then there would be a lot more people who would join into the conversation, and that is the last word i will say on the matter.
_________________________
Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?

Humans think they are the fabric of society,when they are merely part of the thread.


Top
#1190876 - 24/04/2013 11:55 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Greg Sorenson]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
What is it with you people and your personal attacks? I see it elsewhere with people attacking Cee Bee, I see it here with YS - and all because they are just as passionately convinced that they are as right as you others are who do the attacking. Sorry Andy W, but I find yours the most offensive posts on this page.

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#1190879 - 24/04/2013 12:09 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Greg Sorenson]
KevD Offline
Occasional Visitor

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 5236
Loc: Bellingen NSW 2454
Absolutely agree, cannot believe that you can post this: "Your continuation with your sadly deluded ramblings do you no favours, in fact one could even say that when people resort to macabre posts wishing ill on others based on a pure generalisation, they have nothing. That is you buddy, you have nothing." and then add that, oh, by the way, no illwill to you or your family.
Has been great to see YS, CB and others stand up the onslaught of reproduced WUWT posts on this forum and still keep going despite the ongoing personal attacks, but the venom in that one Andy W goes way over the top...you should apologise mate.

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#1190881 - 24/04/2013 12:23 Re: Farming, food production and consumers [Re: Greg Sorenson]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
When you being kicked from behind Andy, it shows you are in front!

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