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#1242707 - 16/02/2014 20:26 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
I think your both confusing that ,
there was only inference of personality in my post .

for starters i was attacking the use of statistics in this rediculously emotional torrent of posting on this topic .

secondly i whole heartedly and vehemently am discussted that Cold front continues to equate surfing to actually being " just a Hobbie " ....

just because pro divers know the dangers what makes them go through with it .
$$$$ ... i can guarantee if some people didn't have a taste for " top shelf " crustaceans ..... that they wouldn't take so many risks ..
This kind of arguement equates to drug dealers and the risks they take and know .....

TDS ... nothing i said was aimed at you .. only your " hell bent " take in defending statistics that you felt attacked ...

Please don't take this personally ... Thats whats wrong with this topic ... People feel like its going to effect them ... Just like GW ....

i think you guys need to take a rest , if you are being effected this heavily from idle banter .....

CF , lose the superiority complex that hamstrings you .... and take life a little less serious ...

"The biggest howls of protest come from a minority of the surfing community and the understandably emotional girlfriend of one of the victims."

do you realise how stupid this comment is ... One person lost their loved one , others have lost friends . No ones giving death threats to public figures , and be little ing people via constant spam in internet threads , and out getting stuck into government workers for doing their Job . ...

My association with this topic is a call for people with clearly too much time on their hands to wake up to themselves ....
get a grip ... everyone .
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#1242713 - 16/02/2014 20:45 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Next you'll be telling us that money isn't the motivator for the cull. The tuna fishermen support it because they are being paid to do it and the government support it because they believe this misguided policy will promote tourism which Barnett has admitted to directly. It's all about money $$$$$$.

Where your rubbish above falls over is that you have only ever attacked one side of the issue so spare me your total garbage about your only reason for being here. You ruined that when you started with the intelligence based on geography rot.

Originally Posted By: S .O.

I'm an east coaster thats lived on both sides of the fence , but i hate Both sides picking on the other . For me , ( and countless studies suggest ) levels of intellect are only hindered as one decides to move towards the equator .....


Southern Victoria is NOT on the east coast either. It's an eastern state but on the southern coast.

Originally Posted By: S .O.
i was attacking the use of statistics in this rediculously emotional torrent of posting on this topic .

secondly i whole heartedly and vehemently am discussted that Cold front continues to equate surfing to actually being " just a Hobbie " ....



confused Emotional torrent?

If you're heading where I think you are with surfing being a spiritual experience you'll have no trouble seeing the hypocrisy in culling marine life for the experience.
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#1242715 - 16/02/2014 20:50 Re: sharks [Re: ColdFront]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4219
Loc: El Arish
Shark shields better than drum lines: ALP

Shark shields used by the navy and police divers can reduce attacks without harming the animals and are safer than the West Australian government's controversial drum line approach, the opposition says.

Labor says up to 30,000 shields, which emit an electric field that repel but do not harm sharks, are sold globally every year and there is no record of anyone wearing one being killed by a shark.

Shark shields can cost up to $600 each, but opposition leader Mark McGowan said they were more effective than drum lines, which he said created hysteria, killed smaller sharks and cost millions of dollars.

"They're like a seatbelt in a car. They don't absolutely make you safe, but they make the situation better," he told reporters on Sunday.

Mr McGowan said grants could be offered for surf life saving clubs to lease shark shields and subsidies could be provided to surfers, divers and others at risk to purchase shark shields.

Tour guide Elyse Frankcom, who was attacked by a 3.5m great white shark in 2010 while snorkelling among dolphins with tourists, believes a shark shield saved her life.

The shark bit her legs, but she activated the device before passing out as a tourist helped her.

"Despite blood being in the water, despite an attack already, the shark was not seen once the shark shield was on," she said.

"I do definitely believe that this shield saved my life."

Fisheries Minister Ken Baston agreed shark shields had shown promise, which was why more than $220,000 had been given to the Oceans Institute at UWA to test and improve existing shark deterrents, like the shield.

WA company Shark Shield has also been awarded $300,000 over two years to develop new surfboard fins with an in-built electronic shark deterrent.

"It is intended to develop a deterrent device that can be retro-fitted to all modern surfboards," Mr Baston said.

He said they were part of a $22 million strategy including aerial patrols, jet skis, tagging, research and drum lines.

Currently, bull, tiger and great white sharks longer than three metres that are caught on drum lines within one kilometre of parts of the WA coast are being shot dead and discarded at sea.

There has been no official report yet into how many sharks have been caught, but it is thought to be more than 50, with seven killed.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/21500029/shark-shields-safer-than-drum-lines-labor/
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#1242717 - 16/02/2014 20:59 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Have a listen to the end of the video in Jax' link Yasi. It backs what you posted and says attacks have dropped 97% by adopting a non lethal approach.
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#1242719 - 16/02/2014 21:02 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
i haven't culled anything and haven't officially supported it .

I'm just sick of listening to those extremely opposed .

I do surf , and its got nothing to do with spirituality . I do however like surfing in Remote dangerous locations . not for the danger its just that you need to encounter danger to find and use spots a little out of the way or too hard for lazy people . I need also to escape the Metropolis's that effect my sanity , and much of that is to do with some of the emotive ramblings that get discussed in these threads .
Life is afar more simple in remote area's so i feel i need to experience it irregularly to escape the rat race . Its quiet and peaceful , and gives me time to reflect .
Now some people move away from the metropolis's or to more Nthn regions to espcape reality , the law or whatever .

Southern Victoria , and South Australia is just as much home turf . Is the home of GW's in Aust .... never have i called for protection in my local waters , and never have there ever been any whatsoever protections here , quite the opposite .Victoria leads the world in Marine and coastal parks .
And never have i stopped using them even hours after attacks nearby whilst in SA .

As for WA well thats for the populace of WA to decide ... and no one else ....
I felt that the years i have lived there taht i understand the politics , and more imprtantly understand their contempt for " Easterners " sticking their nose in things ....


As for the intelligence ... to take the words form Lee . " it was purely from some science I've read " ... its not racial , its not motivated its just factual that societies frutehr form the equator have advanced faster .... attack the science not the messenger .
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#1242722 - 16/02/2014 21:08 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
shark shields do not work ...
ask all those SA abalone diver friends of yours ...

they attract sharks in from far off distances , and only make them repell once within a metre or two ...

There is no way a GW with its mind in attack mode and approaching prey at great speed will stop at the last second by something powered by batteries smaller than your fist ....

And yes I've spoken to dozens of people who have owned them and some that have tested and or tried to defend them to others that have used them .
next .....
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#1242723 - 16/02/2014 21:15 Re: sharks [Re: S .O.]
T_D_S Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 17/03/2013
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: S .O.

As for the intelligence ... to take the words form Lee . " it was purely from some science I've read " ... its not racial , its not motivated its just factual that societies frutehr form the equator have advanced faster .... attack the science not the messenger .


Again, remind me where I said this???

If you are going to "quote" me... can you be factual? Or are you just trying to be a smartass? I'd has it a guess the later rings true! smirk
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#1242724 - 16/02/2014 21:16 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Yeah we should all just shut up and ignore this ridiculous policy because we are from the east. What an extraordinary statement. You do realise you don't reside in WA yeah? Yet here you are crazy

...and I hate to state the obvious but if you stayed out of the thread by your own admission you wouldn't need to visit dangerous ,remote locations to surf. It' not science. Not rocket science or otherwise. It's basic stuff.

However that isolation you crave is exactly that spirituality I touched on above and I get it. But you cannot expect that everything below the surface make way for you. You really need to take some of your own advice. Only one side of this debate has actually brought the science you refer to to the table.

I am far from emotional on this topic. Infact I have laughed so hard tonight my sides are hurting . The people fighting against this cull can see the answer to saving people from being eaten by sharks is as simple as staying out of the water, where as the other side has choked back tears whilst arguing to kill sharks so they can surf. 81% of Australians can see just how basic it is.

I doubt you even see the contradiction in your statement about abalone divers being paid. Many of their licences are worth several $million a year but they aren't crying out for sharks to be removed and have a healthy respect for them.

Yet the vast majority of surfers are there for pleasure just as I was. If I get back down to the surf I won't hesitate to re-enter the surf. I love it. But I am also prepared to accept the risk.
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#1242728 - 16/02/2014 21:30 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
Lee ...

I didn't per say Quote any exact words , just words to the effect like
" based on your numbers the statistics do not ring true to your own statement... what's wrong with being scientific about something??? " ....

I have enjoyed your posts for years ... lets not stop that ...

CF .
You don't understand W Aussies's .. I do i lived there for years .
No you should tend to your own flock and fix the abhorrent policies that QLD produce with netting before you start empowering yourself to tell people from WA to sort their [censored] out ....

Where have i said that i need have everything culled below the surface , before i enter the water ... truth is i've probably been closer to more whites than most rec. divers . just i haven't seen them .

If you tell me that a AB diver is in for the love ... i'll choke ...
they are mercinaries and nothing short of it . Only for the love of more money do they do it ... I know many ab divers ... I don't hold it against them , but i also hold them in the same high esteem as miners for their environmental contributions ;-)

obviously if you are laughing at others misfortune , then you are not human .

get to know the local politics , get to know the opposition .. clearly you don't know either .
claiming me to not know both , is your first mistake .
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#1242732 - 16/02/2014 21:45 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Yeah I'm laughing at other's misfortunes? What a desperate and absurd notion. You really are misguided and clearly an expert on WA too so the great shark debate is over yeah? Many of those people on the beach at Cottesloe were surfers !! Of course you've spent all your life across the southern seaboard .No doubt out of fear you'll somehow end up less intelligent if you progress northward. crazy

Glad to know it was only my first mistake though. Cheers for that.

Your attempts to stifle discussion by suggesting everyone NOT in WA is ill-informed or out of touch is concerning. Read back where I too once had an encounter with a Great White. Not a WA one but a great white just the same. Or didn't it understand WA politics when it came in for a look so it doesn't count? I was in WA before you were born for the record. Next you'll be telling me all those people on Cottesloe Beach were from Cairns too.

TDS you should be feeling all warm and fuzzy about now .

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#1242746 - 16/02/2014 22:36 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
S .O. Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2011
Posts: 1540
Loc: Southern Victoria
Please name a surfer you know that was at Cottesloe . I knew a couple , doesn't bother me either as it s in their neck of teh woods .
You said i wasn't an east coaster .... but if you had indeed spent time their you would know that anyone not in WA was an " Easterner " .
And perhaps you feel as though you know this as you are now on the same side of the Brisbane line as them ....
Good on you , i feel enlightened that it did not see you fit to eat ...
you should oblivously keep on educating the masses of your extensive knowledge of the subject .... lets be honest the experts know sweet F all about whites . why should anyone else be fit to comment ...

i didn't say you couldn't have a opinion , i just wish that you wouldn't ram it in the face of others or judge those that oppose it . me i'm just sick of hearing about it .... its a speed bump in the car crash that is modern society ... be influential , not disruptive .
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#1242747 - 16/02/2014 22:51 Re: sharks [Re: S .O.]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Originally Posted By: S .O.
I don't expect sharks to be removed


Originally Posted By: S .O.

I don't support culling


It appears you have changed your mind.

Originally Posted By: S .O.
... lets be honest the experts know sweet F all about whites . why should anyone else be fit to comment ...


Yet here you are and unintentionally supporting the argument that more research is required as suggested by scientists and shark "experts" due to a lack of knowledge of the species as opposed to culling them because we don't know what detrimental effect a cull may have on the species. Particularly given it now appears they take much longer than originally thought to achieve sexual maturity.

This has been put to the WA government for the record. Tourist dollars take precedence over common sense. .

The swearing isn't necessary either.

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#1242759 - 17/02/2014 00:05 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
I have just watched 60 minutes here regarding the shark cull debate in WA and what a 'real' and interesting take on things it was. Puts a lump in your throat hearing the story of the girlfriend of the latest attack victim. That's one story of many here in WA. One person amongst the many hundreds/thousands that are personally affected by these attacks.

Like I have said in the past I have been a fence sitter on this issue for a long time but recently and especially after tonight I am tending towards a managed cull mainly because of the radical single minded beliefs of the anti cull people. Unable to see both sides of the story and realise the issue currently at hand.

I know Coldfront will come back quoting something or putting up several arguments or putting endless crazy crazy crazy emotive icons to belittle his opponents in this attempt to debate this issue but if people just had a more well rounded understanding on the issue in the areas and towns then they would understand that a strictly managed shark program is worthy of a trial in the current time and situation.

This thread over the recent years has only ever popped up with the next fatal attack. This has been fairly regular during recent years. No doubt the shark management programs being implemented in WA currently will not stop the next attack but it has reached a stage where something had to be done. Its a hard issue but I think people need to be a bit more understanding of the entire issue rather than just jump on their personal bandwagon and expressing their hardline approach because it seem like the hardline approach is making people look heartless to those that have experienced such huge losses.
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#1242762 - 17/02/2014 00:14 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Interesting follow up interview on 60 minutes.

Extended interview 60 minutes
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#1242763 - 17/02/2014 00:31 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Still trying to use predetermination to stop opposing views I see Popeye. If you read S.O's posts you'll see the continued contradictions. If you'd like me to link up your emoticon filled swipes at Qld just sing out. It's great to see you support a cull because others are opposed Popeye. That's a logical reason.

You still have radical and common sense confused. By your own admission directly above you have stated the cull won't stop the next attack and that is why I am so deeply opposed to it. You've admitted it won't work but want it anyway. And I'm radical.

Thousands affected from 7 attacks in 3 years? Really?

You have car accidents and shark attacks confused. Yeah it's tragic that someone was attacked but guess what. Nothing you or that silly government of yours do will bring him back. NOTHING.

S.O's original post was right in one way and you've just highlighted the fact. The call for culls is an emotional one. Which has always been the strongest argument against it. It should be based on fact not emotion. Do you think Channel 9 give a toss about that victim's girlfriend? Do you not see the coincidence in a story on 60 minutes and another a few days ago with a guy that had his hand bitten appearing on a current affair? Now they'll find something else to exploit while you share in that girl's grief.

MONEY. That's all they care about. Preying on human emotions. They ran a story on an idiot that walked straight past a croc warning sign and stood at the edge of water fishing . You can guess the rest. Darwinism at its finest and yet they made out that the guy had done nothing wrong to demonise crocs.

My letter to the show was edited massively to suit their agenda. I wonder Popeye if you sit down and watch videos about car crash victim's girlfriends after they are cleaned up by a drink driver? It happens every single week and affects a damned sight more people and is people killing people. But 60 minutes knows it won't get an audience. They want to support the cull purely to force a reaction so they can milk it for all they can get. It's good business. They got you watching didn't they?

The victim's girlfriend has been paid and now they will move onto the next story while she mourns. Don't believe me? Watch the show next week.
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#1242766 - 17/02/2014 00:52 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Yawn...... Your arguments bore me to tears. Sorry Coldie but lately your long winded responses filled with quotes has done nothing but remind me again how to reference things. I am sure you got good marks at school but you still havn't scored well with me. Wrap a black balaclava over your head, jump on a surfboard and join the nutters over here in WA cutting baits off drum lines. Actually you should be able to head down to your local beach in Cairns and do that. lol What a joke this whole debate is. You guys don't have a leg, actually a toe to stand on. Give up before you make more of a fool of yourself.
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#1242767 - 17/02/2014 01:12 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Isn't it great that 60 minutes gave a real life story regarding the issue. Rather than people ranting and raving crap from a far.

I guess it gives people a better view on the real issue and what it is like on the ground here in WA rather from their secure little netted beaches and drum lined riddled beaches. People have been put off speaking up. I ask the question in general conversation daily to people and you would love to know the response I get. Yeah sure the majority of people see it as a controversial issue but its definitely split 50/50 at the moment. And honestly people who say they are against it are only following the flock in what they think they should be saying. The more the East coast netting and drum line programs are brought to the attention of Australians the better. It just makes the whole argument void.

If people want to say "let WA lead the way" haha OK then well lets see you guys get 12 people killed by Great whites and then see your responses.
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#1242769 - 17/02/2014 01:20 Re: sharks [Re: ColdFront]
Popeye Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 30/12/2006
Posts: 7918
Loc: Cable Beach - Broome WA
Originally Posted By: ColdFront
Thousands affected from 7 attacks in 3 years? Really?


A lot of those people attacked had families, close friends, work colleagues, school friends, where known amongst townfolk, sporting teams the list goes on. Easily 10's of thousands.

OK if you want me to be more realistic in the figures I would say its a national issue and a lot of Australians have had an opinion, have voiced their thoughts and have been influenced by various means to come up with an opinion. So its a national issue 22+ million people.
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#1242772 - 17/02/2014 03:39 Re: sharks [Re: terrified]
Adele Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/12/2010
Posts: 376
Loc: Somerset TAS
I decided to get in contact with a fishing friend of mine, to get his opinion on the cull. He has done extensive fishing along the south west, and also did a couple of years on the tuna farms in Port Lincoln area. This is his opinion.

The Western Australian government used to appoint a license for a person to shark net. The license was given to a person (not a vessel), and was non transferable. The last person who had this license stopped netting in 1999. He mainly fished around the Esperance area. Which my friend suggested is also a juvenile breeding ground for the Great White.

After the Great White had become a protected species, the government had put a stop on allowing Cray fisherman to put hooks on their pots. He thought this was amusing, as he had never known of anyone catching Great Whites this way. Although they used to catch heaps of Tiger Sharks. As he said there is an abundance of Tiger sharks. So they should have been able to keep this practise going.

With the population explosion of seals along the south west coast of WA, he said it is a major reason for the increased amount of Great Whites coming further up the coast. As well as following the whale migration.

He had also seen an increase in the amount of Great Whites in the Port Lincoln area in five years he was there.

However, when I asked him what he thought of the cull he said it was laughable. He couldn't believe that the government was wasting all this money on the baited drum lines. If the government was trying to protect people from shark attacks from Great Whites then this method was useless. The only chance they have of catching Great Whites greater than three metres was using either whale, or seal meat on the hooks. The only time he suspects that he caught a Great White on a hook was when he was fishing down near the Islands off Port Lincoln. He caught a seal accidentally on a 20 mm steel cable line. They had turned their back to get tools to release the seal when something had taken the seal whole. It moved the boat around for about five minutes before it snapped the cable. So it was pretty large in size, that is why they suspected it to be a Great White.

I asked my friend whether he thought bait lines would attract more sharks to the coast. He said it won't make any difference. Look at how many Cray pots are put along the coast with baits in them.

My friend isn't against culling the sharks at all. He said how the government has gone about it was stupid in his eyes. Barnett was using it for a political tool, to show voters that he was trying to do something. And certainly not for peoples safety. If he was serious about protecting peoples lives he would have given a few people licenses like they used to have on the quiet. This would of fixed the problem, and the public would be dumb the wiser.

Of course this is only one person's opinion, but I wonder how many other people from the fishing industry feel the same way. Again I have to stress as to whether there was a lot of research that went into this current bait drum line policy. Is it the best solution to fixing a problem were peoples lives are at risk.

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#1242786 - 17/02/2014 07:57 Re: sharks [Re: Popeye]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Originally Posted By: Popeye
Yawn...... Your arguments bore me to tears.


That's a mature response. You've played right into the hands of the media by your own admission. That piece on 60 minutes (which I didn't get sucked into watching) was designed to do exactly what it did to you. An ecotourism operator calling for the cull of a protected species?

Good post Adele .
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