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#42324 - 24/08/2005 21:16 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
boardrider, I think those figures are rather typical of an Australian house. I have an upstairs bedroom that behaves like that.

Some of my early data are here:
http://www.cyberspeights.com/EEH/Index.htm
:wave:
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#42325 - 25/08/2005 17:02 Re: Indoor Climate
TOM1111 Offline
Member

Registered: 27/10/2004
Posts: 2789
Loc: medowie near williamtown-octob...
my dad would love the $6 heating bill

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#42326 - 25/08/2005 21:17 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
I don't find it too hard to take either. wink

There's about $15,000 in extra building costs to recover, but I think I'll get that back eventually. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the house.
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#42327 - 26/08/2005 06:07 Re: Indoor Climate
TOM1111 Offline
Member

Registered: 27/10/2004
Posts: 2789
Loc: medowie near williamtown-octob...
im sure you would get that back.im sure on our heating and cooling costs but i think its well over $1000 a year

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#42328 - 01/11/2005 10:10 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
October is the month when the weather here goes from too cool to too warm. Common sense suggests that a house should be managed to deal with this change.

My eaves are designed to shield the big north windows from the sun from mid-October through to mid-March.

I began with a simple policy of changing all the climatic controls of the house on 1st October. That is:
* Change the clock control on the north curtains to closed in daytime (keep radiation out), opened at night (let radiation out);
* Open clear-story windows to allow ventilation by the stack effect, and set fans to eject warm air through these windows from midnight to 5 am;
* Re-set awnings to change the verandahs from sun-traps to shaded breezeways;
* To ventilate the house at night, open exterior doors before going to bed, and close them after getting up.

This year I postponed the last item until 1st November. I have found that the night air in October is too cold for comfort. In fact, my lowest indoor temperatures have been recorded during October nights when I had the doors open. My intention had been to begin to cool the heat bank for summer, but I found that did not suit the tenant!

The soil in the garden is warming up much faster than the edge-insulated soil under the slab. Both are near 20 degrees just now. The floor of the house has become very comfortable on bare feet.
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#42329 - 01/11/2005 10:17 Re: Indoor Climate
percy_04 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 22/05/2004
Posts: 1653
Loc: Unley, SA, Fine weather bubble...
our house seems to b staying relativly cool too...its 26 outside..and only 22 inside...was also 26 yest and got down to 15 degrees and 10 degrees outside both nights...our house does warm up more than it should tho...we dont have any blinds so the heat just seems to come in as it wishes...our house will b at about 27/8 come 7.30 tonite...when the blinds go in wont get much over 21/2

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#42330 - 01/11/2005 10:27 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
Blinds will help, percy, but heavy lined curtains with pelmets (to stop the icy waterfall effect)are much better. They cost a lot, but housewives don't seem to mind spending a lot on them out of the "re-decorating" budget.

Really serious energy-efficient house builders overseas use insulated shutters instead. Our mild climates hardly justify that.
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#42331 - 01/11/2005 10:33 Re: Indoor Climate
percy_04 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 22/05/2004
Posts: 1653
Loc: Unley, SA, Fine weather bubble...
yea i thought they would, but in Adelaide hot weather isnt really an issue its more keeping the cold weather out. We have the thickest insulation in all the walls and the roof so its actually quite warm in winter it can not go above 15 for 7 days and still b 16 inside. in our old house it would drop to 12 degrees eek but our house is more to keep heat in than keep it out.

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#42332 - 01/11/2005 11:40 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
I see, percy, that you are practically on a mountain-top. The climate must be quite different from Adelaide city centre. Your summer maxima could be about 3 degrees lower.
I can't really guess what it is like. Do you get a sea breeze? Any breezes at night?

Architects are always talking of "cool night breezes". Very few inland places get them.

Do you find yourself shutting doors and windows on summer days to keep the heat out?
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#42333 - 01/11/2005 13:04 Re: Indoor Climate
percy_04 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 22/05/2004
Posts: 1653
Loc: Unley, SA, Fine weather bubble...
yea we get breezes all the time - nice little gully wind spesh in the arvo.....we also do shut the doors and windows on those hot days too..but not really a lot

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#42334 - 02/11/2005 05:35 Re: Indoor Climate
NZAAS Offline
Member

Registered: 27/05/2003
Posts: 1086
Loc: Rain mentioned every forecast....
In Auckland we OPEN the doors and windows on a "hot day" to let the breeze in laugh
Quote:
Originally posted by percy_04:
yea we get breezes all the time - nice little gully wind spesh in the arvo.....we also do shut the doors and windows on those hot days too..but not really a lot

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#42335 - 02/11/2005 06:35 Re: Indoor Climate
TOM1111 Offline
Member

Registered: 27/10/2004
Posts: 2789
Loc: medowie near williamtown-octob...
Quote:
Originally posted by percy_04:
yea we get breezes all the time - nice little gully wind spesh in the arvo.....we also do shut the doors and windows on those hot days too..but not really a lot
i shut my doors and windows too and turn the AC on laugh

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#42336 - 02/11/2005 07:32 Re: Indoor Climate
Rainlover Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 4421
With this humidity it hasn't dropped below 25 all night inside making it very uncomfortable. Had the Air Con on yesterday as well, but with it being evaporative it isn't working too well with all the humidity...it has increased indoor humidity to 62% from the average of around ~45%.

Rainlover

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#42337 - 02/11/2005 08:55 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
I know you jest, boardrider wink but seriously, what weather makes you use the air conditioner? I see Williamtown gets only 9 days a year with maxima over 35 degrees.
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#42338 - 02/11/2005 09:10 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
NZAAS, many Australians who live on the coast have the same experience. It only works if the breeze is cooler than about 30 degrees, though. I live where summer days are much hotter.

Your tag "Rain mentioned every forecast" reminds me of my father's trip to Auckland in the 1940's. He was mightily impressed that the Farmers Co-op Department Store provided free courtesy umbrellas for customers at the pedestrian crossing on the street.
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#42339 - 02/11/2005 09:20 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
Rainlover, I find evaporative air conditioners a bit of a paradox.

As you say, they work very poorly in climates with high humidity: they may make the humidity unbearable.
So, they are suited to arid climates. But then, can you spare the water to run them? There is really only a semi-arid fringe area where they are practical.
Typically these coolers work on a "total loss" principle. They draw in fresh air and dump it outside. I don't know if anyone is working on a modification to make them more water-efficient.
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#42340 - 02/01/2006 13:29 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
The house struggles to cope with the holiday heat-wave.

Taking means for the last three days:

Temps__: Maxim; Minim; Mean_; Range
Screen_: 39.90; 22.50; 31.20; 17.40
Room___: 30.70; 27.10; 28.90; 03.60
Floor__: 27.80: 26.00: 26.90: 01.80
WaterT_: 32.40: 30.80: 31.60: 01.60
SoilOut: 26.90: 26.50: 27.70: 00.40
SoilIns: 22.10: 22.10: 22.10: 00.00

("Screen" is in the home-made Gimiboths thermometer screen described in this forum http://www.weatherzone.com.au/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005512
"Room" is read at head height on the door architrave between the master bedroom and ensuite, in the core area of the house;
"Floor" is at the floor-tile surface in the ensuite;
"WaterT" is in the water in a green 10,000 litre polyethylene water tank 80% full, under a verandah;
"SoilOut" is the sub-soil temp at 75 cm below the soil surface in the garden;
"SoilIns" is the sub-soil temp at 75 cm below the slab surface within the perimeter insulation.)

The reduction of max temp from 39.9 outdoors to 30.7 indoors is pretty good (though I say it as shouldn't) but 30.7 is not really comfortable, even with an oscillating fan running. Nor is the indoor overnight min of 27.1, achieved by having the main doors and windows open, and fans running all night in the clear-story and the bedroom. (Humidity is not a problem: it runs at about 50%.)
The indoor minimum is, unfortunately, more than four degrees warmer than the outdoor minimum. The thermal mass of the house, generally a great advantage, prevents it from cooling completely in the time available.
However, the mean indoor temp is more than 2 degrees lower than outdoors, because the sub-soil under the house retains a lot of its winter coolness: it is more than nine degrees cooler than the mean outdoor temp. The floor, with its very steady temp, lower than room temp, is influenced by this coolness. Pleasant on bare feet!
By contrast to the cool temps under the slab, the garden sub-soil mean temperature of 27.7 degrees would be about the same as the outdoor mean temp, except that it lags a few weeks behind.

People think that water tanks keep the house cool. My data show that they just about damp out daily temperature fluctuations, but do nothing at all for the daily mean temp.

Heat waves may occur again in the coming months. Unfortunately, the sub-soil under the house will have warmed up, and will not cool the house so well.
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#42341 - 26/01/2006 21:02 Re: Indoor Climate
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2067
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
Wall studs are thermal bridges.

Just now (8 pm), looking at the outside walls of my house, I can clearly see the pattern of timber within the walls. The walls are clad in "Granosite"; a textured acrylic stucco on fibre cement sheets.

Where there are timber studs and noggins, the wall is dry; between the timbers, where the wall is packed with glass-fibre insulating batts, the wall is wet.

This is what has happened. The day has been hot: 35 degrees outdoors and 28 degrees indoors. At 5 pm we had a thunderstorm with very heavy rain ( and pea-sized hail) and strong winds from various directions. This made the walls of the house very wet, with water trapped in the grooves of the textured acrylic finish. After the storm the outdoor temperature fell to about 21 degrees.

I have opened all the doors and windows to bring the house temperature down but, since the house is very heavy, it cools only slowly and the indoor temperature is still over 26 degrees.

The insulating batts do not allow the excess heat in the house to escape; the timber studs do. They are "thermal bridges" that warm the cladding, evaporating the water away.

I should have got a photo to show the effect.
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#42342 - 26/01/2006 22:36 Re: Indoor Climate
Natasha Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 04/09/2005
Posts: 444
Loc: Melbourne ( Prahran)
we dont have an air con because we dont want to have to have all doors & windows shut & lived in a climate controlled environ. It reminds us of raising fish in a fish tank where we would be the fish LOL
We have windows on the west & east. On a hot day In the morning we open the west windows & blinds & shut the east windows & blinds & the reverse in the afternoone.
In the evening we open all windows. We run 4 fans. Our house is double brick & rarely gets over 27c even in the hottest days. This is fine for us as unlike many Melbournains, we dont want to lived at a constant 18c - to 21c (the temp most of our neighbours & workmates seem to like)

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#42343 - 27/01/2006 12:38 Re: Indoor Climate
TrenthamStormchasers Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 15/04/2001
Posts: 6258
Loc: Trentham 705m
Double brick is faulous for having a cool house on a hot day!! Brick veneer however isn't as good.... long ago did I stop thinking of air conditioning as an evil, I love the fact that you are free to turn it on or off, but if it isn't there, you don't have the choice.

Footnote: air conditioning was the only thing that got a litter of Dobermann puppies through when they were tiny in Perth when the outdoor temperature was in the high 40's for a number of days...the adult dogs survived by having a bucket of water tipped over them every hour - the pups would have died without air conditioning.....

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