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#444401 - 06/01/2003 20:54 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Peto Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/2002
Posts: 124
Loc: Killarney SE QLD, 757 mts ASL
This is an interesting little poem I found at home today, and is penned by a fellow by
the name of John Carew. Quite a clever and captivating piece of poetry I my
opinion-thought I'd share with everyone here and see what you all think!

In the beginning
there was Earth, beautiful and wild,
And then man came to dwell.
At first he lived like other animals,
feeding himself on creatures and plants around him.
And this was called IN BALANCE WITH NATURE
Soon man multiplied
He grew tired of ceaseless hunting of food;
He built homes and villages.
Wild plants and animals were domesticated.
Some men became farmers so that others might
become industrialists, doctors or artists,
And this was called Society.
Man and Society progressed.
With his God given ingenuity, man learned to feed,
clothe, protect and transport himself more efficently so he might enjoy life.
He bulit cars,houses on top of each other and nylon.
And life was more enjoyable
The men called farmers became efficent
A single farmer grew food for 28 industrialists, doctors and artists.
And writers, teachers; and engineers as well.
To protect his crops and animals, the farmer produced substances to repel insects, diseases and weeds.
These were called pesticides.
Similar substances we made by doctors to protect humans
These were called medicine.
The Age of Science had arrived and with it came
a better diet and longer, happier lives for more members of society
Soon it came to pass
That certain well fed members of society
Disapproved of the farmer using Science.
They spoke harshly of his techinques for feeding, protecting and preserving plants and animals.
They deplored his upsetting of the Balance of Nature;
They longed for the good old days
And this had emotional appeal to thr rest of society.
By this time farmers had become so efficent.
Society gave them a new title:
Unimportant Minority
because societycould never imagine a shortage of food,
Laws were passed abolishing pesticides, fertilizers and food preservatives.
Insects, diseases and weeds flourished.
Crops and animals died.
Food became scarce.
To survive, industrialists, doctors and artists
were forced to grow their own food.
They were not very efficent.
People and governments fought wars to gain more agricultural land.
Millions of people were exteriminated.
The reamining few lived like animals,
feeding themselves on creatures and plants around them.
And this was called IN BALANCE WITH NATURE.


:cheers:
-Tony

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#444402 - 07/01/2003 09:44 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
W W Offline
Member

Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 1227
Loc: Cobar 31.50S, 145.83E, 243m ...
Good poem Tony
pretty true also,& yes lets hope the last bit doesn't eventuate

Heather laugh

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#444403 - 07/01/2003 12:53 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Fine Elsewhere Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 02/09/2002
Posts: 1873
Loc: Albany.W.A.
Interesting poem Tony - was it entitled "The Balance of Nature"?
Hay Question : Not trying to be unkind, knowing how short fed is over there, but when u have round bales left from previous year that have not been kept in the shed, when do u feed them out. 2 schools thought here today - use oldest first & keep new ones till old run out OR use new ones while fresh & keep old ones to use if new bales run out? No this is not a trick question - i would just like to know what other peole do?
Charts look like there is a chance of rain 4 u Heather?
:wave: FE

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#444404 - 07/01/2003 21:15 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
mcg Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/11/2002
Posts: 213
Loc: Hunter Valley
Hi all...
Hay answer...we use the old bales first, but the better of the old go to the wet cows and the older bales go to the dry cows and the steers. But we don't antisipate having any surplus ever again the way it is looking.
Things have gone off again and the new growth is withering in the paddock. We are watering what we can but that is only a minute portion. Keep on feeding....
Heather by the look of the map you shoud be having rain...are you?
We had a dry storm tonight....we got a little excited and then nothing...next time hopefully.
Talk to you all soon i hope

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#444405 - 07/01/2003 22:45 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Peto Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/2002
Posts: 124
Loc: Killarney SE QLD, 757 mts ASL
Yes FE you are correct...copies of it were distributed at a recent Ag Force meeting (which my parents are members of) and I just found it the other day lying around the office desk.

In regard to the hay question, around here it mostly depends on the animals you are feeding, for example animals requiring maximum nutrition such as breeders or dairy cows in lactation would be fed the best quality hay, whereas dry cows or steers would be fed the older, poorer quality hay.

The majority of the hay we use is in the form of small square lucerne bales (used for feeding cattle while in the yards) is kept undercover in the shed, along with half a dozen round bales of barley straw, fed out when we are finishing cattle on oats. This increases the roughage content in their diet so as protein and other nutrients doesn't pass straight through the animal.

Hope this is of some help to you FE.
:cheers:
-Tony

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#444406 - 07/01/2003 22:59 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Rainlover Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 4421
With dairy cows, I thought that they could only be fed silage(sp?) as they required high protein food, and I thought normal dried out hay didnt have this protein. confused

Also, where do all the farmers here get there seed from?

And what is the difference between Broad Beans, Faba Beans, Tic Beans, and Mung Beans?

Do many farmers here grow clover? Is it used as anything besides a green manure crop?

:cheers:

Rainlover laugh

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#444407 - 08/01/2003 14:32 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Peto Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/2002
Posts: 124
Loc: Killarney SE QLD, 757 mts ASL
You're actually spot on there RL in regard to the hay question...dairy cows do need a high protein diet and silage is the most common type of feed used.

However, good quality lucerne or forage sorghum hay is often fed out when silage or other forage is short and while the general protein and nutrition content is lower than silage, it still is nutritious enough for them to produce milk.

In regard to the "bean" question, I'm afraid I really can't help you there as these crops are not very common in this area. Most crops grown around here are of a fairly limited spectrum, with sunflowers, corn and sorghum (summer) and barley and wheat (winter).

Clover (both red and white varieties) is used in pasture and improved pasture around here and in your area as well I would imagine. It is widely used in improved pastures in Southern Australia to prevent Grass Tetany in cattle (a severe magnesium deficency, mostly leading to death if not picked up on). If prolific in pastures cattle will bloat on it (being a legume), but this can be controlled by either bloat oil in their water, capsules inserted orally or drenches.

Hopes this info is of assistance RL.
:cheers:
-Tony

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#444408 - 08/01/2003 14:59 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Fine Elsewhere Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 02/09/2002
Posts: 1873
Loc: Albany.W.A.
Good answer Peto, i can't add to that other than to say clover is our very best pasture for animal growth, if u r lucky enough to have a really good clover pasture & have good conditions for hay making it makes outstanding hay that animals prefer over all other hay!
:cheers: FE

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#444409 - 08/01/2003 15:06 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Rainlover Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 4421
Thanks guys. :wave: :wave:

Is lucerne grown just for fodder? Or can it be used as a soil improver(green manure), or for human consumption?

Also I have heard about bloat a number of times, is it a condition where the seed in the cows stomach sort of roughens up the sides of the stomach, making them sick?

Also, do many of you grow Tree Lucerne?

Rainlover laugh

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#444410 - 08/01/2003 17:20 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Peto Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/2002
Posts: 124
Loc: Killarney SE QLD, 757 mts ASL
Lucerne is actually an incredibly useful form of green manure, probably one of the best green manure crops available. It provides an abundance of green leaf at the peak of its growth and as a legume, it fixes nitrogen from the air to the roots of the plant, which means artificial nitrogen fertilizers are not required to be added to the soil before the next crop.

Bloat in cattle is caused by a build up of gas in the rumen, which encopasses two stomachs that enable plant material to be regurgitated and broken down. When cattle are fed the fresh growth of any legume, a gas from the legume is relased in the process of digestion and this accumulates in the rumen. The gas, which cannot be expelled, eventually builds up until the stomach bursts and the animal promptly dies.

However, if a beast shows signs of bloat, the animal can be stabbed on the top left side and the gas can be safely relased. Another method of control is to administer a large dose of vegetable oil orally via a drench gun. The vegetable oil somehow breaks down the gas and the animal survives.

Lucerne Trees are not grown in my area (South QLD), however I think FE grows a plot for his deer herd...if you have any questions he would be the man to talk to.
:cheers:
-Tony

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#444411 - 08/01/2003 17:56 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Rainlover Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 4421
Thanks Tony :cheers:

One question I have is why do some cows get fed lollies, mars bars, chocolate etc? I have seen it on Landline before, but I'm not sure what it was used for. confused

Rainlover laugh

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#444412 - 08/01/2003 18:05 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
mcg Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/11/2002
Posts: 213
Loc: Hunter Valley
Tony you explain things so well.
We breed Brafords so we don't have problems with bloat. When the feed (clover and Lucern) is really fresh we feed hay out to the cattle before we put the cattle onto the green feed to lessen the amount of green feed passing through their system too quickly. I am sure that Tony could explain that better than i am able to sorry.
Lollies, as far as i know, are given to the cattle to give tham energy when the feed is low and the food they are being given is of poor quality.

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#444413 - 08/01/2003 19:29 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
TrenthamStormchasers Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 15/04/2001
Posts: 6258
Loc: Trentham 705m
Certain breeds of dogs also have a predisposition to bloat - Dobermanns, Weimeraners & Great Danes being 3 of the worst affected breeds. The problem seems to be more predominant within certain body types as well eg: narrow deep chested animals. Is this the same with cattle? Is there a predisposition within some and does body type have anything to do with it?

I ended up with a Dobermann bitch who had a predisposition to bloat (she also seemed to have missed out on the reflex that closes the stomach when it is full and could pack food all the way up her gullet to the back of her mouth (making breathing somewhat difficult). I ended up carrying a tablet of apomorphine with me at all times, but fortunately total control over her habits and environment meant that that was one thing I didn't have to use on her...hoses to open the gullet and injections of apomorphine with crossed fingers that the stomach or intestines hadn't started to twist yes.......

Btw, silage is a great way of fixing gastroenteritis in dogs (haven't tried it myself) - 1 dessertspoon morning and night (I keep a small grass pile under silage conditions for this purpose) and it will clear gastro problems up faster than antibiotics and can be used safely with pregnant & lactating bitches.

Cheers,

Jane

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#444414 - 08/01/2003 21:02 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Peto Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/2002
Posts: 124
Loc: Killarney SE QLD, 757 mts ASL
Thanks for your positive comments mcg, very much appreciated!

Jane I think you are right in regard to certain breeds having predispositions to various conditions such as bloat... British breeds are probably more susceptible to bloat due to their smaller frames, whereas larger framed Bos Indicus or Bos Taurus cattle and crosses (such as mcg's Brafords) probably aren't worried by it as much or at all.

:cheers:
-Tony

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#444415 - 08/01/2003 21:06 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Beachy Offline
Member

Registered: 31/05/2002
Posts: 511
Loc: Peninsula
Jane, charcoal is fantastic for helping dogs with digestive conditions. Although more for flatulance, it assists with bad breath as well. If you require some for your dog, I can recommend where to get it from.

smile

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#444416 - 08/01/2003 21:39 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
TrenthamStormchasers Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 15/04/2001
Posts: 6258
Loc: Trentham 705m
Thanks for your thoughts Beachy, but unfortunately cardiomyopathy got Tegan at the age of 9 & a half (that runs in families too, and I wish I'd taken the bad molar out that she had & she might have lived a bit longer).

Charcoal is good for flatulence I agree (and bad breath of stomach origins), but unfortunately doesn't have an effect on bloat - depending on how far the dog is into the episode you can do a number of things, but all are pretty radical. Punching into the stomach with a sharp instrument is one that you only do as a last resort, an injection of apomorphine (at the vet)or a tablet under the bottom eyelid (the vet suggested I carry a tablet and sterile water, but a vet nurse taught me the eyelid trick which is faster) work well, making them throw up using washing soda (1st thing to try if you catch it early enough and you have 30 minutes to wait for a result), inserting a hose into the stomach (if it hasn't twisted and you don't have anything else) and a healthy dose of prayer........

Having a dog die of bloat (which a friend had to watch and was powerless to do anything because the bitch had gone into shock after the bowel twisted) is horrendous, and it can happen sooo fast - almost before your eyes..... I watched Tegan literally 'blow up' in front of my eyes the last time she bloated badly.....

Does it happen this fast with cattle?

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#444417 - 08/01/2003 22:17 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Boy from the Bush Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 15/08/2002
Posts: 67
Loc: Mungindi, 180km west Goondiwin...
You beat me to it Peto with that poem the balance of nature. I found it on the back of an irrigation for profit book and was going to post it. It was first published in 1970, but seems to be a timeless piece. It is interesting to note that the author was a scientist, teacher and humanitarian.

Onto the topic about the luceana trees I read in the Qld country life about a place near Moonie (southern Qld) that had some planted, it does cope bit of a touch up with the frosts but apparently grows ok that far south.

see all later

:wave: :cheers:

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#444418 - 09/01/2003 10:58 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
mcg Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/11/2002
Posts: 213
Loc: Hunter Valley
We like the Brafords because they have the Bos- indicus content that gives them resistance to bloat, ticks and eye problems. We don't like the fact that they put so much into their calves they fall away very quickly in hard times. We have had to take all the calves and hand rear them, still in good times they turn off some really lovely vealers, yearlings. Can't have it all can we!!

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#444419 - 12/01/2003 16:53 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
Fine Elsewhere Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 02/09/2002
Posts: 1873
Loc: Albany.W.A.
Hi all, 5mm of rain - keep park lawns green & won't hurt dry feed too much, lot of westerly wind. For those in SA if this front could interact with the moisture up in NT u might get some moisture, but theres not much in the front by itself. Thanxs for ideas feeding old hay, in the drought 2 years ago we learnt that when animals are hungary they will eat old hay they would'nt touch the year before! Doubt it had any feed value other than filling space in tummys.

Now a word of warning on GST returns. Some of u might be like me & leave payment to last min at local PO. If u do be careful - friend of mine did that last return & posted off paperwork as she made the payment. ATO conveniently recon it took then over 14 days for return to get to them, so she incurred rather nasty penalty for late logement of the RETURN not the payment being late! U can overcome this by posting off day or so before closing date,and will know when they got it by when cheque goes thru the bank statement.Obviouswly the softly, softly attitude to GST is over, i'd would'nt be surprised if Govt coffers r bit low this year with payment for war on terror & droubt stating to show thru other sectors other than just rural areas - but then i'm a "cynical old ba*****rd"
:cheers: FE

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#444420 - 12/01/2003 20:00 Re: Chewing Straw - Over the back fence.
mcg Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/11/2002
Posts: 213
Loc: Hunter Valley
HI all
Great to hear about the rain FE.
Thank you for the GST warning. I knew that the picnic would end soon i just wasn't sure when.
I have heard that the penalties will be harsh so we had all be very diligent from here on in. I won't be able to do my book work late now will i?
Take care all........ :wave:

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