Hi, I'm new here. :wave:
We are fruit growers (Apricots & Olives)in the Riverland region of SA.
WE are on 60% allocation, future forcasts seem even grimmer.
We are all hoping for big rains in the catchment.
Rumours are we could be facing zero allocation after July this year if there's no rain.
Of course this has got me and other growers worried. No water means no income.
We try to think positive, weather the storm (so to speak) everyone says it will rain **** loads soon. fingers crossed they're right.
Annual rainfall here is roughly 300mm, last year (at our place) was just 160mm. Funnily enough was 330mm (above average) year before(05).
Even if we get 1000mm this year (most unlikely lol) it doesn't make a huge difference to the Murray as we are too low, the rainfall needs to be in the catchment area.
Then there's the proposed weir at Wellington,at a cost of $110million! Call me silly but wouldn't that $110m be better spent on buying back water licences from willing growers?
Drying out Lake Bonny and other wetlands...and other band aid sollutions are all on the drawing board to help save our river.
They say the river Murray is dying, I say it was murdered by overuse and abuse.
When I moved my young family here 12 years ago the future was very bright, We worked hard to turn a unproductive and neglected fruit block into the successful business it is today... for what? to loose it all due to the missmanagement of the river systems by the goverment.
Anyway I've raved on enough.
Anyone else here murray river irrigators?

Hi teela, Whilst I don't actually own a farm myself, I work every day on cotton properties throughout the Darling Downs which is located in southern Queensland and is ofcourse at the very start of the Murray-Darling catchment area. Not suprisingly all cotton growers share the same fears as you, I would say that all growers have zero allocation next year. This year most growers have had a very low or zero allocation. Next year looks like a daunting season without water but I guess we are able to grow dryland sorghum to keep some sort of cash flow. Anyway best of luck with the coming season (I love the olives and dried apricots!), keep your chin up, things will change soon.

I have a suggestion to the cotton growers - move them to Asia or somewhere where it actually rains!!
Continues to astound me why we try and grow cotton in some of the driest places in the country (eg NW Plains).

Hi Teckert,
Whilst I understand that areas like the NW plains is rather marginal, areas like the Darling Downs is quite suited to cotton growing because of its ideal summer rainfall and beautiful vertisol soils. In years of normal rainfall in the Darling Downs, there is quite a large area of dryland cotton planted. Whilst cotton can be grown in high rainfall regions, it is only possible to do so during the dry season. You see for management and farming reasons it is ideal for cotton to be grown in dry areas because it allows the grower to control the irrigations (would you believe cotton does not like to be waterlogged).

I too often wonder why they started growing cotton in those sort of marginal areas, heck at one stage they wanted to grow cotton in SW Queensland. Personally I think alot of the cotton could be grown up in the northern parts of Australia, such as the ord river region (small plantings already are grown there), north Queensland and possibly even around Katherine. But whether that can be done is a another question.

Just one more thing, as many would be aware, some mayors in western NSW are petitioning the Feds to get them to buy Cubbie Station in western Qld with a view to stopping the water storage there and sending it down the Darling River.

In the interests of getting the facts straight - at least on Cubbie I have included here for you a recent summary I obtained from various Australian Geographic articles that I think puts the Murray Darling water crisis into perspective.

By way of explanation, 1 Ml = 1 megalitre = 1 olympic sized pool.
1 Gl = 1 gigalitre = 1 000 Ml

Cubbie Station has a total water storage capacity of nearly 500 000 Ml or 500 Gl. (Does not mean that much is stored there at all times).

Of this only 90 000 Ml (90 Gl) is used for irrigation - keep this in mind as this is part of the Qld total.

In any year, out of the total Murray Darling system:

Qld uses 250 Gl,
NSW irrigators take 6 000 Gl,
Victorian irrigators take 4 000 Gl
South Aust take 500 Gl.

Add to that a combined stock & domestic industrial and town use of 460 Gl.

Add all that up and you get a total of 11 000 Gl extracted out of the Murray Darling. (remember, Cubbie uses 90 gl of this in a good year)

The total in it? 13 800 Gl.

Certainly taking the water from Cubbie and putting it back in the river would be a help - but probably only for those immediately downstream!

When put in perspective the reality is that far too much water is extracted from the Murray now - over the whole system and this is ultimately the challenge facing water managers in the MD basin today and indeed other catchments.

G'Day there teela & Adam Ant

I have for a long time not understood all the argument that seems to go on with water allocations & still don't. I must confess the talk that continues without end about it has driven me to turn the radio off at times.
From what you both are saying & Adam your post was very enlightening, it does seem to me who knows nothing about it that far too much water "is" being taken from "yes" all our rivers for crops which in my mind could be better produced somewhere else.
I wish to refer to rice & have been at a loss to understand why it is that out on the hot sun baked plains from Wagga Wagga on the Murrumbidgee River rice is grown ? I have been out there & new irrigation banks are still being constructed by the Sturt Hwy around Hay for what I presume are rice paddies like there is no tomorrow ???... I do understand that other cereals can be grown in these sites as well if the price is not right etc & this has happened in recent years with rice. With the peak watering time of late summer the evaporation waste in this environment for rice must be horrendous, all for the sake of producing a crop that surely could be better produced in the Top End....Sure as hell they could grow rice at the Ord one would think ?
The trajedy of all this will be if our rainfalls in the South East of Aus do in fact decline that whole towns like Coleambally & the rice Mills infrastucture that surround them for these regimes may in the future not be sustainable...Well maybe for rice that is
I'm all for moving these unsuitable crops up to the Top & saving the ones that are suitable while there is still time. I know Olives don't need much water teela so Good Onya !

Just on a final comment I would close down Cubbie tomorrow as what I think they are doing is outrageous

Happy trails from a retired dry-land farmer

Thankyou Mr Ant, you seem to be a wealth of information on cotton growing in Australia.
I can't say I'm a big fan of cotton or rice growing here in Australia.
There are now big almond orchards popping up everywhere, everyones talking about them being the next boom crop.
Almonds demand a huge amount of water,infact they use as much water as cotton. I know! Its amazing that a hard dry (but very tasty I must admit) nut needs so much water but apparently it does.
Where do they think all this water is going to come from in the future?
Shouldn't there be a trend to growing crops less demanding on water? I would have thought so,and that is indeed why I planted my olive trees.
Most of these Almond orchards are owned by big companys and managed investment funds.
What ever happend to the family farm?
By the way. Theres a family here who are trialing growing different types of Date Palms. Hooray, this is more like it, this is what I wanna see. The Date Palm is a desert dweller and not only are they drought tollerant they can cope with a bit of salinity too. A perfect choice for our area.

I guess we all know you can present figures to suit any argument, depending on how selective you are!!!! :rolleyes: adam ant why don't you state the average flow of the river compared to Cubbies allocation!!!
I've been going to a property that is on the Culgoa below Cubbie for 20 years and there is a very obvious difference. Speaking to the manager a few years ago, he said they were expecting a flood that would cover 60 000 acres of their farm. Due to Cubbies pumping the river didn't even break the banks!

Hi J.C.,
Firstly can I say I am definately not endorsing Cubby Station! Hell my good mate is the next farm down stream, so I do know what happens. All I was doing was stating some interesting figures that I read and I thought others may enjoy. If you need to know, from what I have read cubby represents 30% of the total average diversions from the lower balonne river. You have to understand that Cubby will only fill to capacity in a 1 in 10 flood event because water is diverted from the flood plain, not the actual river (which is why your farmer friend didnt experience a large flood). In the years in between they have a 5 000 ML water allocation from the St George irrigation project, which is 7% of total allocation from that project. They are not taking 500 GL every year from the lower balonne river like some people might be thinking. It is easy for someone who is not involved in the cotton industry to knock it, yes I have a vested interest in it (my work) but so does something like 10,000 other country people. I am not sticking up for cubby station here I am merely stating the facts.

Adam i'm not advocating the closure of the cotton industry, but we all know things as they are aren't sustainable. Sure the cotton industry employs alot of people but other farmers would employ people if they had acess to this water.
Do you think it's fair that Cubbie diverts this 1 in 10 year flood so the people below don't get any of it? Why don't they take there limit every year? Wouldn't be because there is no water for them to take?

Hi J.C., Ofcourse I think its unfair that cubbie absorbs a large amount of that 1 in 10 flood event, as that water as you said would have flooded the plains of many other farms downstream. But rightly or wrongly the Queensland government has allowed them to do it. They can't take there limit every year because the water has to go into the floodplains for them to do that, hence the reason they fill up to capacity every 10 years. Like I said in years inbetween they are allocated water like any other cotton grower. Whether cubbie or any other cotton grower are allowed to do this in the future is unsure but if you had read my earlier posts I have pointed out that in the future I can see the cotton industry moving up to the Ord and NQ areas and possibly around Katherine where they could grow cotton in the winter. J.C. all I was trying to do from that earlier post was to point out that removing cubbie would only benefit a small number of farms downstream (like your friends), I was just stating the facts from the magazine from a very neutral position.

Adam I get what you are saying and have been saying the same thing for ages. Closing cubby down has been touted as the remedy to fix the Darling. WRONG....DEAD WRONG!!! As you have pointed out in those figures you provided earlier they take a relativly small percentage of the total flow of the Darling's flow. I cannot see how this would fix the Darling when all it would do is allow other farmers downstream to pump. NSW takes far more water than Cubby and yet nobody seems to complain about them like they do about cubby. It is about time people understood that unless there is rain there will be no water in rivers. Irrigators cannot be blamed for the current flow of the river because they are not even pumping. And if it was not for storages and wiers etc the Darling and the murray along with most of their tributaries would be dry. Then who would greenies blame...nature??????

I am no fan of cotton the amount of spray that is used is madness and rice is no better with the water it uses. I think that orchards and vinyards are just as bad because at least with an annual crop if there is low water a farmer can either not grow it or reduce the amount he grows. Trees and vines need water EVERY year even if they do not produce. But geez if it was not for exports and jobs that these crops create there would be nothing and nobody out there apart from sheep stations and roo shooters. So eveybody hope(and pray if you are that way inclined) for rain and craploads soon. The rivers need fixing up in respect to flows but the blame games and band aid solutions that are floating around will not fix it. All they will do is stuff up some farms who are doing the right thing and people with fatter wallets will keep on going.

That's why I think that having Turnbull in charge of water is utter madness. He is a banker and is fixing to make himself a truckload of money out of this. Water should have a set value and should not be a comodity. When sombody is making a profit from a resorce, they will sell as much as they can every year and hope they get another good "crop" of water to sell next year. They also will get very strict on what water can be caught for private use. Just watch the cities when they start recycling water from storm water. They will want all of those tanks to be tken away as they reduce the runoff they can use and from then on sombody will "own" rain, and that will be a black day.

Well said Adon. Being an ex dairy farmer from near Rochester were suppled from Eildon system off the Western Waranga Channel. When GMW brought in TWE ( transferable water entitlements or water right, 30% of the water was not being used. A lot of that water was in Pyamid Hill and Boort areas and they expected that water to return upstream. That didn't happen as those areas decided to put in summer irrigated crops also water could not moved out of that particular system. That changed permanent water rights are now sold out of this area. Most of water out Goulburn Murray area now goes to these investment towards Mildura.
I made a prediction when I sold out eighteen momths ago, that there will not be any water in the Goulburn Valley in 10 years for farming.
The Snowy scheme was built to supply water into Murray and Snowy Rivers. Heavens knows what they do with now.
The rain will come one day if we are around to see it. It has been predicted that not alot until 2010-2011 both are supposed to very very wet years. That prediction is based on the moon cycles.

Today's announcement from the PM: No water for irrigation next season. Hardly a surprise but ...

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,21583143-31037,00.html
Ron

Was not the first Australian, large scale, plantings of cotton at Ord River? Did not this venture fail even after tremendous expenditure on infrastructure?
My memory is not too good, and I'm not 'having a shot' at any statements made earlier.

Hi inclement, you are right in saying that one of the first large scale plantings occured on the Ord. However this venture failed for a number of reasons. Cotton growing was stopped due to poor fibre quality and insecticide resistance in Helicoverpa armigera, both of which were symptoms of a production system that failed to recognise the limitations of the environment, ie they grew cotton in the wet season when really they should have been growing it in the dry.

In recent years a production system in which cotton is grown during the dry season (March to October) to avoid key insect pests has been researched. Combined with IPM, Bollgard varieties and resistance management, insecticide usage has been reduced to less than 5 sprays per season, with acceptable fibre quality and yields similar to the Australian average.

Why on earth can they not grow hemp up there??? That stuff is so much more usefull than cotton and has many more uses. Just because some dim witted polly thinks that it is a drug, they have stopped a magnificent fibre/oilseed crop from being grown. I think that it uses about the same amount of water but the fibre yeid is much higher.

Rice cannot be grown in the Ord. It has been attempted but the huge flock of wild geese love the flooded fields and ample feed that rice gives out. Especially in the dry season. Dunno water other crops could be moved up there from the SE as most others need cool weather at some stage to set fruit. I must say one thing though. People seem to really go after cotton and rice growers and others for using too much water but at least these blokes can opt not to grow a crop or reduce the area if they don't have te water to grow it. Grap growers and all other permenant crops require water year in year out just to survive let alone produce food. Nobody seems to give a stuff about that but so much water is flowing down stream this year to keep trees alive that will not produce this season. That sux IMO dairy cockies and grain growers are copping no water whatso ever yet fruit growers and bloody almonds are still sucking water for next to nothing. Managed investment schemes should never have been allowed into irrigation as they are a false economy and are pushing up water prices to un beleivable prices because they have so much money to burn. Yes the river has a crapload of water taken out for irrigation but remember that in the last few years, most farmers have not been able to take water esp from the darling. They have not been sucking the river dry, there was bugger all to begin with. I see it as a problem with a water market. While there is money to be made from water, it will be treated like a crop and as much will be sold as possible. It makes no sence for a company to keep water in storage just incase it rains heaps and the dams overflow and potential income is lost over the wall. Until water has a set price, and people cannot make huge amounts of money from trading water, there will be no improvenemt IMO. Yes we need rain and improvments in infrastructure to cut down on waste but you will still see farmers desperate for water in future droughts if those flows are returned to the river for enviro reasons.

I am not an irrigator and I am not sure of how Enviro flows work but from what I can figure out is that an enviro flow is let out with the intention of flowing out to sea. Seems that flows released for irrigation are not counted as enviro flows upstream of where they are taken out for use. Is this right? Seems stupid that these flows are not seem as enviro flows right upto the point of being diverted. Afterall they ARE flowing down the river.

G'day Adon, I totally agree that hemp should be used more, unfortunately its big brother will always give it a bad image. Also by the sounds hemp just isnt profitable in Australia, the price is volatile and we cant compete with the two biggest producers Europe (because of subsidies)and china (because of extremely low labour costs). Also there just isnt any facilities to process the hemp in Australia. So until our pollies pull there finger out I cant see the hemp industry ever starting in Australia. Heres a good website to read over.

DPI&F

Cheers adam at least I am not the only one!

adon said: "People seem to really go after cotton and rice growers and others...." which is correct, but NOT simply for the amount of water taken from the system. A major gripe is the contaminating pesticides. etc., which leech into the stream and polute downstream ventures.

I have been across the Darling Downs a few times in my life starting about 50 years ago.
It is magnificent country but the last time I was across there in about 2000, I was horrified by the huge turkey nest dams every few kilometres.
Each dam had about 4 of around 400 or 500 mm pipes into them , busily pumping water out of the Condamine, water which would have ultimately flowed into the Darling.
My contempt for the greed of the cotton growers was really cemented when I repeatedly came across furrow irrigation on barley crops, one of the lowest value crops around.
There were no high value crops, just masses of water being used in high temperatures to grow a low value crop.
In the early 1970's I flew gliders out of Waikerie in SA.
Between Waikerie and Loxton there was just mile after mile of dry, desolate looking farmland.
At both of these towns there was, what I thought at the time as quite an area of citrus.
Now when I drive that route, all I can see is bloody grape vines with practically no breaks in the vines in the 75 kms between the two towns.
And that is only one small section of the river.
It is entirely understandable that our rivers and wetlands are in deep strife when I see the greed of both the irrigators and the political class who have benefitted from all the irrigation licence fees flowing into government coffers.
It is interesting that there is almost no support for the irrigators amongst dryland farmers who regard irrigators as amongst the greediest of all rural industries in the manner in which they appear to stop at nothing to get as much water as possible regardless of the interests of all the other groups in the community as well as the environmental destruction factor.

Mankind needs three things to survive;
Water
Food
Shelter
So what does he do?
He pays big, big dollars for shelter as in fancy McMansions, fancy clothes and all sorts of useless adornments.
Food he expects to get real cheap, always to have as much as he wants and if there is the slightest blemish he will complain loud and long.
Water, he expects that to be given to him. It must also run out of a tap when demanded, must be clear and pure and preferably be delivered for no charge.
Somehow, in Australia, we have managed to get this whole situation **** about face and now we and our environment are paying a very heavy price and we will be paying a much heavier financial, industrial and social price far into the future.

ROM I reckon it would be really interesting to comare the percentage of the weekly wage food was in the 50's to what it is today. I reckon that it would have been a lot higher then. You are right on what you have said before. People expect food and all essentials for next to nothing so their pay can be spent on the luxuries in life. A house is a essential but not a McMantion. Clothes are essential but not the high fashion fad clothes worn by most everyone. Food is essential but not the ridiculous "dining experience" that rich people seem to "need". Transport is essential but seems people in cities refuse to use public transport even if it is accessible to them. The list goes on and on. We do seem to have to the wrong way around and I think it is the way that the products we buy are priced at.

It also has somthing to do with the amount of profit that the middle men of the world seem to take for simply shuffling the produce along. How is it that a high fashion pair of jeans that cost $200+ can be made in a chinese factory for maybe $2. Sombody is taking people for a ride. It seems to be widespread through most things that people buy and use. Somehow and someway businesses should not be allowed to take huge profits when the price to produce it is low.

I have an official historical table and graphs of Monthly Murray Darling Dam Inflows for Hume & Dartmouth Dams from 1892 to current 2010(Courtesy MBD Commission), on my new upgraded, updated, modernised web site under articles section for anyone who may be interested at
http://www.holtonweather.com
Also, keeping the Murray River Basin discussion on the agenda for irrigators and farmers, etc,as most pollies seem to be good at forgetting it with this election!

Ok... tad slow on the uptake here, by like five months!

Adon, you might find the graph below answers your question:


Quite a while back I found a very interesting paper on Trends in Australian Agriculture. It was written in 2005 but still resonates with a lot of the feelings out there today. Check it out here. The graph above was sourced from this paper.