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#446691 - 08/09/2008 09:32 Eat Less Meat!!!
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
This should help you struggling farmers...not!!!
"Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chair of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), said people should have one meat-free day to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

The economist, who is vegetarian, said diet change was important in reducing environmental problems associated with rearing cattle and other animals.

Dr Pachauri is due to give a speech in London on Monday under the title: "Global Warning: the impact of meat production and consumption on climate change".

The IPCC evaluates climate data for the world’s government and last year earned a joint share of the Nobel peace prize.

“Give up meat for one day (per week) initially, and decrease it from there," he told the Observer.

"In terms of immediacy of action and the feasibility of bringing about reductions in a short period of time, it clearly is the most attractive opportunity."

Other small-scale lifestyle changes would also help to combat climate change.

Dr Pachauri said 18 per cent of all greenhouse emissions was due to animal production.

He said small changes in lifestyle would make a difference to global emissions, but called for Governments to act to reduce the number of livestock reared.

But the move has been criticised by farmers and the meat industry.

The National Farmers Union said "simplistic measures" to reduce meat consumption would "create more problems than they solve".

A spokeswoman said: "The NFU is committed to ensuring farming is part of the solution to climate change, rather than being part of the problem."

Stuart Roberts, director of the British Meat Processors Association, said he was "disappointed" by the comments.

He said: "The British meat industry already takes its environmental responsibilities very seriously and I believe methane levels on UK farms are actually falling already.

"We have been working closely with the NFU to reduce emissions in our process. It's important this is all kept in context."

Joyce D'Silva, Ambassador for Compassion in World Farming called on Britons to reduced their meat intake.

"If we continue to consume meat and dairy at the current rate both animals and the planet will suffer.

“Factory farming is unsustainable and inhumane. The best thing people can do is eat less meat and dairy and eat only higher welfare - organic and free-range."
Eat Less Meat!!!

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#446692 - 08/09/2008 20:29 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
RC Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 29/09/2007
Posts: 1914
Loc: near Rockhampton, Qld
Being a vegetarian she wouldn't have an agenda to push would she...

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#446693 - 08/09/2008 20:52 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Shayne Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 26/01/2006
Posts: 5816
Loc: Cedar Grove SEQ
<===puts on best hippy voice...

Plants have feeling too man....salad is murder!

sorry...i couldent resist..ill get back in my box now...
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#446694 - 08/09/2008 21:16 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Jacci Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 26/04/2008
Posts: 673
Loc: Top End, Storm Capital of Aus ...
Meat?
We should be cutting down on baked beans to help with global warming.
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#446695 - 09/09/2008 07:16 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bd bucketingdown Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2008
Posts: 6033
Loc: Eastern A/Hills SA
"Stop eating meat' a misguided approach to climate change

Monday, 08/09/2008

Australian farmers and researchers say comments from one of the world's top scientists, that people should stop eating red meat, are misguided.

The chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Rajendra Pacchauri says consumers must reject red meat, because methane emissions from beef and sheep are making a big contribution to climate change.

Australian scientists say food supplements and breeding could reduce livestock emissions in cattle by 30 per cent within a few years.

Melbourne University researcher Dr Richard Eckhart says Governments must wait for the science to catch up, before calling for people to stop eating meat.

"Not all the land that is currently under grazing is suitable for any other form of agriculture," he says.

"And so you can't have it both ways; you can't have a world which needs more food and then say we need to cut the emissions from food production"

(PS. After eating a large bean salad recently I must agree Rainbird!)

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#446696 - 09/09/2008 15:52 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Jacci Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 26/04/2008
Posts: 673
Loc: Top End, Storm Capital of Aus ...
hahaha omg! laugh laugh laugh
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#446697 - 09/09/2008 16:08 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Thunderstruck Offline
Lightning man

Registered: 10/05/2001
Posts: 14820
Loc: Seaford Meadows, SA
Give me strength :rolleyes:

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#446698 - 09/09/2008 17:12 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
When the great Pachauri says 'You can't eat meat again!'
We go (fart) Heil! (fart) Heil! and say 'Go breathe methane'!

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#446699 - 09/09/2008 19:08 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Lets have a look at some other foods as well.
Pachauri should demand the that the production and consumption of rice should cease as well.
Rice paddies are estimated to produce between 50 and 100 million tonnes of methane each year.
Methane is about 20 times as potent a green house gas as CO2.

The fact that a few million or so people could starve to death if the political class was to follow the more extreme dictates of the stop global warming at all costs section of the AGW ideologists shouldn't and so far does'nt seemed to have worried the global warmers in the least when they are making so many of their crazy demands.

Perhaps the problem now is the total disconnect and complete loss of understanding by the cities as to where their seemingly never ending supply of cheap food comes from.
As an illustration of this, I have taken the liberty of quoting from an article on today's American "Agriculture on Line" site which really illustrates how even highly educated city people are so ignorant about how the world food production and supply systems operate and by implication do not have a clue as to where their own food comes from.

Quote;
This failure to understand the differences between the needs of agriculture and other sectors was made clear to us a month ago in a conversation we had on a flight to a meeting we were attending. On this particular flight our seatmate turned out to be an MBA student from a major university. As a part of the usual chitchat, he asked what we do and we told him about our work in agricultural policy.

The discussion turned to high grain and oilseed prices and we explained that if the US or some other country had maintained reserve stocks of grains and oilseeds, the release of these stocks would have moderated the level of price increases we are seeing in the markets.

His response was "But, with world trade we don't need to maintain reserves. If a country runs short, it can just import it from somewhere else in the world."
In a perfect world, he might be right about the balancing role of trade.

This perfect world would need to have a significant number of countries involved in the production of exportable surpluses of the various grains and oilseeds. In addition the carryover stocks would need to be balanced among a number of countries as well. As some Enron employees found out, when you have all of your eggs in one basket, your risk rises dramatically.

For six grains (barley, corn, oats, rice, sorghum, and wheat), just two countries, the U.S. and China, have held an average of nearly 58% of the world's ending stocks over the last ten years (1998-2007).

To make things more risky, the difference between the high and low stocks of these two countries, 239 million tonnes, is greater than the highest level of carryover of the rest of the countries in the world, 217 million tonnes in 2001. Most of the world's carryover stocks are in two baskets -- the U.S.and China.

To read the full article go to the Ag-on-Line article.

In the end it is the stupidity of statements from highly placed people in the AGW camp who have made some quite extraordinarily ignorant statements, as Pachauri has so aptly done, will go a long way towards towards the destruction of the crumbling edifice of the AGW theory.

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#446700 - 14/09/2008 08:33 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
warrumbungle Offline
Member

Registered: 17/10/2006
Posts: 95
Loc: Coonabarabran
Some of you smarter chaps than myself might be able to answer a small question that has been floating inside my head for awhile.
Is methane or other greenhouse gases produced when grass decomposes and if so is this taken into account when the figures are done.
Cheers

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#446701 - 14/09/2008 15:13 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Jacci Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 26/04/2008
Posts: 673
Loc: Top End, Storm Capital of Aus ...
Though not quite specific on grass decomposition,
there is some information regarding methene production in plants. Grasses are plants too, belonging to the classification 'Liliopsida' wink

Here's a good link:

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0111-mpg.html

I hope this helps. smile
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#446702 - 14/09/2008 18:21 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
warrumbungle Offline
Member

Registered: 17/10/2006
Posts: 95
Loc: Coonabarabran
Thanks rainbird. Interesting article.

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#446703 - 09/10/2008 11:47 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
From what I have been able to find on a quick Google search methane breaks down in the atmosphere into two main components which are carbon dioxide and water. Mind you the time to make this change varies from 6 to 8 years but it does breakdown eventually. Methane collectors have been implemented in rubbish dumps in Perth for a number of years and the gas is burn to produce electricty. I know it is a piddlingly small amount but it is a start.


I didn't spend the last 1,000,000 evolving to become the top of the food chain to start grazing like a cow. There is always a place for meat on my plate and that is right next to the potatos.
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202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 688mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#446704 - 09/10/2008 12:01 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
Thing is, if you remove all meat from humanities diets what's going to replace it? For hear half the world's population I'm going to guess rice and guess what rice fields produce plenty of? wink

:cheers: Will
_________________________
YTD Rainfall = 281.0mm (Avg to March 117.0mm)
MTD rainfall March = 34.7mm(Avg 41.3mm)
February 2011 total = 203.9mm (Avg 37.8mm)
2010 Rainfall: 759.3mm (Annual Avg: 521.5mm)

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#446705 - 09/10/2008 17:24 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Meat is the main source of protein in the developed world and amongst the better off in the less developed countries.
The poorer people make do with the pulses, ie; peas, beans, chickpeas lentils and etc for their protein.
Red meat is also a source of iron which is needed to counter anemia of the blood circulation system.
The lack of Iron is a significant dietary deficiency amongst a large number of the rice eating nations as the iron content is very low in rice which in turn leads to severe long term health problems amongst the poor who cannot afford a wide ranging diet.
To counter this, a few years ago rice was modified using GM technology to have a much higher content of iron.
This is the so called Golden Rice due to it's colour.
Sadly because the Golden Rice was genetically modified, the fanatical and anti GM crazy deep greens have done everything in their power to prevent and completely stop the release of Golden Rice varieties.
The fact that this GM rice can prevent illness and improve health and prevent premature death amongst millions of the poorest people on earth just does not alter one bit the greens such as greenpeace's opposition to the release of this rice.
The lives of millions does not count to these anti GM fanatics.
If people die well too bad but we can't allow that terrible GM rice to get out into the market.
Somebody might get ill from consuming it.

Over the years there are other examples like this from the greens.
Sorry folks! I just can't hide my complete and utter contempt and derision for the death dealing double standards of this comfortably off fanatical green rabble that are prepared to let others much poorer than themselves suffer ill health or death rather than see their own fanatical anti GM beliefs challenged.

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#446706 - 09/10/2008 17:36 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
If you are interested in just how much and what we do eat as GM additives in our food from the home of the anti GM foods movement, ie; Europe, then try this EU funded web site GMO Compass

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#446707 - 09/10/2008 18:18 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
LOL ROM, don't hold back!! But I have to say I agree with you 100%, and yes I do have vested interest in people eating meat as we do breed beef cattle.

The hypocrisy of the green movement never ceases to amaze me, on one hand everything has to be pesticide and residue free because of all the nasty cancer causing chems that get sprayed on our food and when scientists actually develop varieties of crop that deal with pests without having to resort to, or not having to use as much of pesticide, well that is bad too. I think the reason I've heard bandied around is that if you have plants that are resistant to attack from various insects and diseases that they will proliferate in areas where they aren't wanted. I guess it is theoretically possible but I am yet to see a crop variety grow completely out of control, I know our cattle are pretty quick to find any soya bean seedlings from the fella next door, hope this counts as me doing something green!!

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#446708 - 09/10/2008 23:24 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
I was doing a few extra jobs over the xmas holidays about 20 years ago at one of the meatworks here in Townsville. Bagging blood and bone. Great job (for building upper body strength) when you got past the smell but one afternoon we where invaded by some so called animal rights nutters.

They where whining about cruelty to animals etc and carrying on like the fwits that they can be when I casually pointed out that the female leader was wearing a pair of suede ankle boots, had a leather belt and handbag. She claimed that suede was man made and the leather belt and hand bag was made out of fake leather. Not a chance it was chrome treated (gives it a lovely greenish tinge) and when i pointed out that suede comes from pig skin she threw up on the spot.
Never heard a peep out of the rest of them as they took off at a great rate.

Boss slipped me a couple of scotch fillets for my efforts. Sweet.
_________________________
202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 688mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#446709 - 10/10/2008 15:12 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
I read this on another forum..the winning entry from an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term (Political Correctness):

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Speaks for itself. Next thing you'll hear will be that someone has been awarded a PhD for researching the molecular construction of the clean end of methane-emitting bovine orifices.

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#446710 - 29/11/2008 22:56 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Thanks Keith I have added that to my Memorable Quotes document and I will trot it out when ever I am able to.

Of course we could always just shoot the greenies and save the planet that way. having witnessed first hand the Greenies efforts in protecting a north queensland rain forrest by attempting to cover it in human waste, sanitarty napkins, tampons, condoms, broken bongs, shopping bags and dried tubes of glue and disposable nappies I would gladly help bulldoze a few dozen for the planet.
_________________________
202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 688mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#446711 - 30/11/2008 13:11 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
And I'll join you, Wobbly. But I will still be critical of the PC mob. No matter what the issue.

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#446712 - 30/11/2008 16:02 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Shayne Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 26/01/2006
Posts: 5816
Loc: Cedar Grove SEQ
a dirty hippy hunt...count me in.. :p

lots a meat on the BBQ here today...pork ribs in Jim Beam sauce, lamb cutlets, oyster steak...and a few big fat slabs of spec bacon...arghhh...no wonder im round!!

dirty greenies will get my meat when they pry it from my cold dead hands!!
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#446713 - 01/12/2008 10:25 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
Mmmmm meat...

Had a nice cook up last night on the BBQ with about a kilo of steak, 2 kilos of sausages and a fair bit of bacon in the BBQ fried rice...

I think there was a joke that raised its head in the Garden thread in the lounge about using greenies as fertilisers - similar to blood and bone or Charlie Carp :lmao:

:cheers: Will
_________________________
YTD Rainfall = 281.0mm (Avg to March 117.0mm)
MTD rainfall March = 34.7mm(Avg 41.3mm)
February 2011 total = 203.9mm (Avg 37.8mm)
2010 Rainfall: 759.3mm (Annual Avg: 521.5mm)

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#446714 - 05/05/2009 21:42 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
My kids just bought me and the wife a lovely 4 burner BBQ with attached side burner with hood and temp gauge. Celebrating 30 years of marriage with a fry up of some of my favourite critters. Pork, chicken, beef, mushrooms and eggs. I suppose I would be in the minority because I am prepared to kill and butcher my own meat. Somehow gutting and skinning a soy bean just doesn't count as being prepared to go all out for your beliefs now does it?
_________________________
202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 688mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#446715 - 06/05/2009 09:17 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
I don't know, it can be pretty traumatic - those soy beans are just so human like...

Only reason I won't butcher my own meat - for the time being - is that I don't know how. I'd botch it for sure, so until I learn (got a few mates who work at the local abby's) I'll respect the critters and get the pros do their thing.

If it's game meat however, then I'll do it for sure. Would love to have a roast venison shoulder for tea... mmmmmmmm

:cheers: Will
_________________________
YTD Rainfall = 281.0mm (Avg to March 117.0mm)
MTD rainfall March = 34.7mm(Avg 41.3mm)
February 2011 total = 203.9mm (Avg 37.8mm)
2010 Rainfall: 759.3mm (Annual Avg: 521.5mm)

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#446716 - 06/05/2009 14:59 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Shayne Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 26/01/2006
Posts: 5816
Loc: Cedar Grove SEQ
mmmm...Meaty Meat meat!...(salivates then falls off chair).. :doh:

i gave butchering a go a while back...as long as you hang, skin, bleed and cleanly gut (dont puncture any of the digestive track, bowel or bladder) the hapless critter that your about to convert to BBQ fodder you cant go to far wrong..hanging, bleeding, skinning and gutting also helps the carcus cool quicker and gives the meat less chance of spoiling!

its all relative..start out with chicken (plucking an interesting way to pass time) and small game and work your way up...if its wild game that you have hunted yourself, accurate shot placement and an appropriate firearm also helps.. unfortunately for me..last hare (mmm stuffed roast hare with garden veges and home made gravy) i shot was with the Swede...not much left to dress... frown

geeze im hungry now!
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#446717 - 06/05/2009 16:53 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
Haha - try a hare with a 9.3 - almost takes it to medium rare before it hits the ground again...

Yeah I've done a few small and medium game (rabbits, hares and goats). Thing is, if I've put in a lot of work to get a doe, I don't want it to go to waste by me stuffing up the butchering process - and I have more respect for the critters than to unleash a meat cleaver wielding me on them haha.

But I plan on going to a few of the game dressing demos that are on a few times a year and try and pick up the tips that way.

:cheers: Will
_________________________
YTD Rainfall = 281.0mm (Avg to March 117.0mm)
MTD rainfall March = 34.7mm(Avg 41.3mm)
February 2011 total = 203.9mm (Avg 37.8mm)
2010 Rainfall: 759.3mm (Annual Avg: 521.5mm)

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#446718 - 06/05/2009 17:14 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1620
Loc: Wangaratta
We have rabbit issue at our local cricket club that are creating havoc all over the ground... got one this morning... in an old rabbit trap... apparently illegal, but i'd rather break a rabbits leg than my own in a hidden burrow. The irony is, the ground is in town so no shooting, no baits due to poor carcase tracking (dog walking etc), snares don't work, and we can't rip burrows as they mostly live under a house.... Hmmm traps work fine.

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#446719 - 06/05/2009 21:06 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Shayne Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 26/01/2006
Posts: 5816
Loc: Cedar Grove SEQ
are ferrets legal down there?..drop a few in a hole and have a net handy over the other entrances..terrified rabbits everwhere!... :p .. perhapses a .22 and some subsonic hollow points...
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#446720 - 07/05/2009 06:43 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Cattle-ist Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 25/03/2008
Posts: 100
Loc: Liston , Wylie Creek
Have you tried carbon monoxide poisoning the rabbits ? Put a pipe over the exhaust pipe of a car,truck,ute or old banger , older vehicles are better because they dont have the pollution gear on .... that`s the stuff we want . Put the pipe down the hole making sure to cover up ALL the holes including the hole the pipe is put in ( to create a seal ) , leave the vehicle running for at least 15 minutes with the pipe down the hole . Time may vary because of the size of the warren .

As a kid I remember my father taking us to "clean up the rabbits" by getting the bulldozer do dig the little buggers out ........... we got 42 out of one burrow system .... ranging in size from the ones you can fit in a hand to 4-5 kilo monsters .

Another time we had a lot of Papua New Guinean school kids who were at a local boarding school , come to stay overnight (25-30 so black the only way to see them at night is to ask them to smile) . We had some timber heaps that hadn`t been burnt and were full of rabbits , we were going to light them all up , but they said just one .... they organized themselves into two rings around the heap and when the rabbits started coming out they were greeted by all these black kids flayling away with big sticks some only missing each other by inches ...... They didn`t get many , the rabbits chose to go back in the fire than risk death by black fella .

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#446721 - 07/05/2009 07:34 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1620
Loc: Wangaratta
Thanks for the tips but we are talking about the centre of a residential zone... the bunnys only scratch tucker holes about the size of a foot on the oval. They actually live under the near by houses in an adjacent court... little buggers. Have tried a high powered air rifle but can't get close enough. Spot lighting will only arouse suspicion.

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#446722 - 07/05/2009 08:14 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
What sort of snares have you tried? If it's possible, use a wire trace over the entrance to a burrow. Another option is to wait until there's a fair number out on the field and place landing nets over the burrows. Once the nets are in place just walk through the oval and scare them back to the burrows. As they bolt in they should become sufficiently tangled to allow you the time to get over to them and catch them.

:cheers: Will
_________________________
YTD Rainfall = 281.0mm (Avg to March 117.0mm)
MTD rainfall March = 34.7mm(Avg 41.3mm)
February 2011 total = 203.9mm (Avg 37.8mm)
2010 Rainfall: 759.3mm (Annual Avg: 521.5mm)

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#446723 - 07/05/2009 08:38 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Simmosturf Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 17/03/2008
Posts: 1620
Loc: Wangaratta
There are no burrows mate.

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#446724 - 07/05/2009 10:35 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
There's got to be burrows somewhere! Just got to look a bit harder.

If they're under someone's house a quiet word in the owner's ear about foundation subsidence should get them on board with any attempt at extermination!

:cheers: Will
_________________________
YTD Rainfall = 281.0mm (Avg to March 117.0mm)
MTD rainfall March = 34.7mm(Avg 41.3mm)
February 2011 total = 203.9mm (Avg 37.8mm)
2010 Rainfall: 759.3mm (Annual Avg: 521.5mm)

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#446725 - 07/05/2009 14:43 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Shayne Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 26/01/2006
Posts: 5816
Loc: Cedar Grove SEQ
no burrows??...hares maybe...mmmm roast hare..

now the exhaust idea..i like that...makes me wonder if i only piped the gasses down one exit to an active warren if it would flush the cotton tales out into the open from the other entrances...hmmmm...just be ready with the old shotty... laugh and if not the exhaust...a "bee smoker"...just fill the warren with that..see if i get some motion..

now..back to MEAT :p ...decided that roast rack of lamb and the obligatory tato's and pumkin are on the menu tomorra night...and ive got a nice big lump of scotch fillet from the butcher for Saturday night...looks like BBQ time...now..some chops and cutlets and it should be carnivore heaven here on the weekend..
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#446726 - 07/05/2009 15:14 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
You don't normally get hares in those numbers nor causing that much damage. But I agree on the "mmmm roast hare.." bit wink

I'm itching to get out and get me some free range critter. Alas uni will keep me firmly tied to my desk for the next month or two and there's also the hurdle of safe storage in a rental (landlords don't look kindly on people who bolt a steel safe to their houses...)

:cheers: Will
_________________________
YTD Rainfall = 281.0mm (Avg to March 117.0mm)
MTD rainfall March = 34.7mm(Avg 41.3mm)
February 2011 total = 203.9mm (Avg 37.8mm)
2010 Rainfall: 759.3mm (Annual Avg: 521.5mm)

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#446727 - 07/05/2009 15:37 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Shayne Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 26/01/2006
Posts: 5816
Loc: Cedar Grove SEQ
i never had an issue with my safes bolted into rentals..if you utilize a built in robe and be careful how you do things, none ever needs to know...except you and the weapons licensing branch!

built in robes often have a separate bit of carpet to the rest of the room, so lift out the carpet and underlay (if fitted) and bolt away..you can always place the carpet back into position when you move on..

my safes bolted to the floor and screwed into the wall in a built-in here...couldn't steal it without destroying the whole cupboard...
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#446728 - 07/05/2009 16:51 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
Unfortunately no go with this one. The owners had just finished a reno on the place before we moved in, so its all brand new carpet (incl. in the WIR). I'm tempted to pick up a commercial one then weld in some boiler plate to get it over the magical 150kg mark...

:cheers: Will
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#446729 - 19/07/2009 23:53 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Shayne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4i9_kkg30o or maybe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTPz59y5538&NR=1 either one would fix the bunny problem :rofl:

Roast leg of pork on the new BBQ tonight. One more that can't give me swine flu. :rolleyes:
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202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
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2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
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#446730 - 20/07/2009 14:29 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
Shayne Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 26/01/2006
Posts: 5816
Loc: Cedar Grove SEQ
mmmm AA12..with the Frag12 rounds..here kitty kitty..if i used incendiary i could shoot it and cook it at the same time..

sir boab...your an evil man.. wink
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#446731 - 30/08/2009 22:27 Re: Eat Less Meat!!!
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Yep and proud of it. Hmm soft nose silver tip with tracer, kill, , skin, gut, mince and cook all in one bullet. Sweet.

Elmer Keith - Famous gun writer from the 1930's to 1980's, hunter and cowboy had many sayings but my persoanl favourite was one anti gun nut who asked him, tongue in cheek, what he would use when hunting mice, his reply "a .44 I don't give any critters an even chance".
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202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 688mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#1005672 - 12/08/2011 13:20 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: SBT]
LydiaZou Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 08/08/2011
Posts: 2
yes, it's also a good method for our environment! support, but not don't eat. but less
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#1006074 - 14/08/2011 23:28 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: LydiaZou]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
I firmly belive that meat has a place in everyones diet regardless of how queasy you feel when eating it. probably without exceptinon nearly every child was raised omn meat and meat products from birth and it is only later in life when they suddenly 'grow a consience' that they feel that eating meat is somehow obnoxious.

I should also mention that I am a founding member of PETA in north Queensland - That People Eating Tasty Animals not the other numpties. If the creator didn't want us to eat meat he/she wouldn't have made them taste so damn good.
_________________________
202mm April 2017
Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 688mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#1006100 - 15/08/2011 09:43 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: SBT]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
I eat meat, I seem to need it. If I need to lose weight, I cut right down on processed carbohydrates and eat more meat, and off the weight goes. I was at the Canberra rally against Live Exports yesterday, and all the speakers were advocating that we export meat, not live animals. No one was saying we should not be eating meat... the reality is, people do eat meat.

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#1006153 - 15/08/2011 18:27 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ant]
Brett Guy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 4840
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Hang on a second! shouldn't we be eating more meat. That way we kill those damn methane prducing cows!
Also an interesting thought is the fact that apparently AGW is caused by human activities injecting extra greenhouse gasses that are not pert of the natural cycle. If that is so then cows farting don't matter. Do they?

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#1006192 - 16/08/2011 06:49 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Brett Guy]
RC Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 29/09/2007
Posts: 1914
Loc: near Rockhampton, Qld
LOL export more boxed beef..... What a simplistic solution.... Of course all those advocating that have no intention of actually working in said meatworks.. A meatworks that can only be open around 8 months of the year and has to somehow compete with mining wages to find staff to work those 8 months..


The local meatworks has told me their exports of boxed beef to Indonesia have been stopped since the live export ban...

So much for that brainwave...


http://qcl.farmonline.com.au/news/nation...er/2256805.aspx

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#1006207 - 16/08/2011 09:41 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: RC]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
There are two aspects to the very long history behind the early proto-human's consumption of meat and both fly in the face of the various anti-meat zealots.

From Berkeley Uni in California ; Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet
Quote:
BERKELEY-- Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods, according to a physical anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley.

It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain, said Katharine Milton, an authority on primate diet.

Without meat, said Milton, it's unlikely that proto humans could have secured enough energy and nutrition from the plants available in their African environment at that time to evolve into the active, sociable, intelligent creatures they became. Receding forests would have deprived them of the more nutritious leaves and fruits that forest-dwelling primates survive on, said Milton.

Her thesis complements the discovery last month by UC Berkeley professor Tim White and others that early human species were butchering and eating animal meat as long ago as 2.5 million years. Milton's article integrates dietary strategy with the evolution of human physiology to argue that meat eating was routine.

Read the full article.

The second part of the advantages conferred to humans through meat eating which out of all the species on Earth is a unique characteristic confined to the human species alone is the cooking of meat and other foods.
My Doc put me wise to this a few years ago when he told me that cooking of meat and other foods releases a lot more nutrients a lot easier for the human gut to absorb and therefore for more and better nutrients are made available which in turn has led to greater brain development in the human race.

The following article on the cooking of food by our ancestors is based on a paper in "Science" which, as usual, is behind a pay wall [ Again!! mad ]

Did cooking allow for the increase in human brain size?
Quote:
Science has a fascinating review about the history of cooking and its relation to human evolution. Richard Wrangham, a Harvard primatologist, has been pushing the idea that the expansion in Homo erectus' skull size was the result of additional energy released by cooking meat:

What spurred this dramatic growth in the H. erectus skull? Meat, according to a longstanding body of evidence. The first stone tools appear at Gona in Ethiopia about 2.7 million years ago, along with evidence that hominids were using them to butcher scavenged carcasses and extract marrow from bones. But big changes don't appear in human anatomy until more than 1 million years later, when a 1.6-million-year-old skull of H. erectus shows it was twice the size of an australopithecine's skull, says paleoanthropologist Alan Walker of Pennsylvania State University in State College. At about that time, archaeological sites show that H. erectus was moving carcasses to campsites for further butchering and sharing; its teeth, jaws, and guts all got smaller. The traditional explanation is that H. erectus was a better hunter and scavenger and ate more raw meat than its small-brained ancestors.
But a diet of wildebeest tartare and antelope sashimi alone isn't enough to account for these dramatic changes, says Wrangham. He notes that H. erectus had small teeth--smaller than those of its ancestors--unlike other carnivores that adapted to eating raw meat by increasing tooth size. He argues that whereas earlier ancestors ate raw meat, H. erectus must have been roasting it, with root vegetables on the side or as a fallback when hunters didn't bring home the bacon. "Cooking produces soft, energy-rich foods," he says.
To find support for his ideas, Wrangham went to the lab to quantify the nutritional impact of cooking. He found almost nothing in food science literature and began to collaborate with physiologist Stephen Secor of the University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, who studies digestive physiology and metabolism in amphibians and reptiles. Secor's team fed 24 Burmese pythons one of four diets consisting of the same number of calories of beef: cooked ground beef, cooked intact beef, raw ground beef, or raw intact beef. Then they estimated the energy the snakes consumed before, during, and after they digested the meat, by measuring the declining oxygen content in their metabolic chambers. Pythons fed cooked beef spent 12.7% less energy digesting it and 23.4% less energy if the meat was both cooked and ground. "By eating cooked meat, less energy is expended on digestion; therefore, more energy can be used for other activities and growth," says Secor.

Secor also helped Wrangham and graduate student Rachel Carmody design a pilot study in which they found that mice raised on cooked meat gained 29% more weight than mice fed raw meat over 5 weeks. The mice eating cooked food were also 4% longer on average, according to preliminary results. Mice that ate raw chow weighed less even though they consumed more calories than those fed cooked food. "The energetic consequences of eating cooked meat are very high," says Wrangham. (Emphasis added )

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#1006240 - 16/08/2011 13:07 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ROM]
Markus Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/12/2010
Posts: 2055
Loc: Clare, SA
It seems most people these days have lost touch with reality. If not for meat we would not exist as we do today. As for the greenies don't get me started on them, pretty much blackmailing labor into a carbon tax amongst all their other rediculous schemes, but i won't go there. Here where I live like most parts of Australia we have serious rabbit, fox, cat and deer problems as well as the usual suspect birds. I see no problem eating any animal as long as it aint carnivourous due to obvious reasons. Me and dad kill and butcher a lot of our own meat. We have contacts with local farmers and often shoot hare just with a 22 then go home, butcher clean and eat. Also deer in the last ten years have become very widespread and damaging to local vegetation so we shoot and eat them as well, much to our pleasure (mouth watering at the thought). Any foxes, blackbirds etc I have no problem in blowing them to hell with a .308. Conservation hunting is crucial IMO.

What really ticks me off about this all really is how much people have lost touch with the true struggle that is life. They expect to go to a supermarket and get all the food they need at demand and especially the vegetarians, i mean how unhuman can you possibly get. I remember my grandfather telling me how through the great depression people were starving and they actually lived off rabbit for quite a while due to no other food being available. Im fairly sure if these so called vegetarians were near starved to death and had no choice to eat meat what their decison would be and as for forcing their children to eat just vegies that in my opinion is a crime. I once asked at school if anybody had ate rabbit or venison or such with a unaminous WTF is wrong with you thrown back. So being myself i made a rabbit stew and tricked a few into eating it and they didn't notice any difference but lost it when i told them. The second thing is all the people around here who believe killing the deer is wrong. Well its that or watch all the natural vegetation destroyed and all our native animals gone.

Society is spoiled and really need to take a step back and determine whats really important, not wasting efforts on producing reports saying why we shouldn't do what is programmed into our genetics
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#1006291 - 16/08/2011 16:33 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Markus]
bundybear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/12/2010
Posts: 2005
Loc: Between Bundy and Gladstone
I think we are omnivores. grin

We will sometimes have a 'vegetarian' dinner. But we may have a carnivorous breakfast of bacon and egg.

Meat can provide a large amount of nutrition in a small amount. Young children can get the iron they need from a small amount of meat or a large amount of beans. I know which my kids would eat.

When my son was small he didn't really like meat. Not sure if it was the taste or texture or the fact the lazy snot had to put energy into something like chewing. I fed him home made pate' on toast instead. He loved it.

We eat meat nearly every day but that is because it is a convenience food. Takes little effort to prepare and cook. To provide the same nutrient otherwise involves more time in the kitchen and brainpower to think of what to cook.

Meat like everything else should be eaten as part of a balanced diet.

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#1006374 - 16/08/2011 21:36 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: bundybear]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
If you find an old farmer type who is in his late eighties or around 90 years old plus and still has all his marbles, get him talking about the Great Depression days of the early 1930's
And ask him about "underground mutton".
That will probably bring a chuckle or two as "underground mutton" other wise known as rabbits which were in plague numbers in those days, saved many, many a rural and town family from serious hunger and even slow starvation in those bad years of that Great Depression.
An old friend of mine, Ian, regularly use to regale me with stories of walking, if you could call it that, for a half mile at a time up to his knees in sand alongside of the rough tracks that passed for roads in those days as the immense and continuous rabbit warrens dug into the Mallee sands caved in under his weight.
At times and I have only seen it a couple of times as small boy along the Wimmera River near water in the early 1940's, the ground just moved with the rabbits when they were in plague numbers.
During drought years such as in the 1930's and early 40's, the plague rabbits used dig their warrens in the scrub and then eat the bark off the roots of the Mallees and other trees to get the moisture and in some cases that killed the trees.

My old friend Ian, told me his grandmother who was obviously a very astute business women, actually had a farm given to her.[ probably 160 acres as that was a selection size in those days around here.]

A young couple had come up from the big smoke ie; Melbourne and settled on a [ farm ] selection nearby but with the bad years and bad prices and dry years of the late 1920's and early 1930's they just had no hope of getting anywhere.
One day they turned up at Ian's grandmother's house with their baby and small child and they told Ian's grandmother that they knew they had no hope of making any sort of a reasonable living from farming and so they were abandoning the farm and heading back to Melbourne.
Don't overlook that they were going to walk the 350 kms all the way with a baby and a small child and with little or no food or money.
They said to the grandmother who had helped them a lot as she did with many less fortunate than herself, you have been very good to us as long as we have been here so here are our farm's titles as it is no longer worth anything to us and we can't sell it because nobody has any money to buy it.

Ian's grandmother was quite shocked and she told them she couldn't take their farm but they insisted so she said, well you have the baby and your child so you will take one of my quietest milking cows for milk for your children plus some other food and a small cart to carry everything and you will take a pig also that you will be able to sell later on.
And that was how Ian's grandmother had a farm given to her.
Such were those bad times.

And just a thought after reading the Markus and Bundy's posts
Who are most likely to be the survivors and who will collapse and probably die by the wayside as they demand that somebody do something if a major disaster struck our civilisation and all the vast infrastructure and net work of technology that now keeps our cities, our society and our civilisation functioning just simply collapsed with the consequent failure of water, food supplies, energy , transport, medical and etc and etc.?

Couldn't happen and in any case people will figure a way out most will say.
But it has happened, many times to many past civilisations as those who know their history will know only to well.

A considerable number perhaps would figure out how to survive but for many No!
Those who would survive would rapidly figure out that all the old habits of city life would have to be discarded and only the real essentials needed to survive would have to be developed, understood and used.
Knowledge and skills that an increasing number and maybe most of our present generations are losing and for some have already lost the basic knowledge of nature and the red in claw and tooth psychology needed to develop the skills of survival in a natural environment. A natural environment that is to them, an increasingly unknown, hostile, dangerous and foreign environment.
As an example of this I think of the young Japanese tourist of a few years ago, the archetypal mega city resident who set off to walk or ride a bike [ can't remember which ] across the Nullabor. When he didn't turn up on time a search was organised for him.

He was eventually found near death from the lack of water in the shade of a water filled bore tank out on the Nullabor.
Yes, he survived but for some time the authorities had to maintain a watch over him as he wanted to commit suicide from the shame of very nearly dying from thirst with unknown to him, readily accessible water only the few centimeters thickness of a concrete tank wall away from him.

With over one half of all of mankind now living in cities of over 100,000 population that is where our increasingly centralised civilisation is heading.

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#1006378 - 16/08/2011 22:01 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ROM]
bundybear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/12/2010
Posts: 2005
Loc: Between Bundy and Gladstone
I ate enough roo tail stew as a kid to be partial to other things these days. Same goes for the crumbed brains, lambs fry and tripe.

My kids know where their food comes from. They have seen steak go from paddock to plate. Seen the milk come from the cow to become their breakfast milk, yoghurt, cheese, cream, butter.

They know that the bruised fruit that isn't up to table standards will reappear with the bad bit cut off in a fruit salad or if enough of them in jam or pies.

They have had to share bath water before when the tanks got low.

Every year we get flooded in at home. Last time there was no way of resupplying anything for a week or more. It wasnt' a problem to us. I stock up for those times. Fresh bread doesn't worry us. We can make it or an even better damper.

Life may be that little bit harder some days in the bush but I wouldn't swap it for the city. I had to giggle at the waste of money the council recently spent on a forum here to decide how they could better cope with flooding. For goodness sake. When you can't get more than 200 metres from your front gate for flooding there is no use installing a make shift shop 10k's away. The money would be better spent ensuring mobile phone reception for those who are flooded in to be able to call for help if needed. Spend the money educating people how to survive for themselves.

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#1006411 - 16/08/2011 23:55 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: bundybear]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Yes I agree that we have turned into a nation of softies. My grandfather was basically indentured for 7 years hard labour with the WA Dairy Corporation in 1928. Be very carefull about ticking boxes on postcards requesting more information about 10 acrce farms in the WA Bush or you could find that you have actually signed a consent to emmigrate and work for peanuts clearing tuart forrests and turning them into dairy farms. He and his family survived in the WA Bush by eating what he could catch/trap/snare and having been a "Wild Life Redistibution Manager" (Poacher) in England he had little trouble seeing that his family was well fed. My dad was also a bit of a handy forager and I have inherited some of his skills but not anywhere near my late grandads ability. Like "Hey Michael would you like to see how I catch trout in the Collie River"? Needless to say it involed a borrowed tennis net, a dead roo, some fencing wire and lots of maggots but no fishing lines. (And he never got caught in over 60 years) I have tucked into my share of "Black Duck" - swan - without knowing what it was, roo, rabbit and real ducks. In all that time his mainstay was meat with whatever veges they could eke out of the poor soil.

I killed and butchered my first sheep, a 'killer' as a 17 year old in 1974 and have done in many times since then, I hunt and fish for recreation. I can kill quickly without causing distress as that is what makes meat tough and I can do it humanely. I take no great pleasure in taking a life but if that is what it takes to provide my family with food then I am capable of doing it. I eat what I kill/catch.

Hunger makes you a quick learner grandad always used to say.
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Best 156mm 19/5/17
2017 Total 688mm
2016 Total 649mm
2015 Total 375mm
2014 Total 1032mm
2013 Total 715mm







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#1006936 - 19/08/2011 17:41 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: SBT]
MC Thomas Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/12/2004
Posts: 1119
Loc: Melbourne
I think I must be one of those softies. I have never killed a warm-blooded animal nor do I want to. But then I eat meat so what does that make me? I am happy to catch, kill and clean fish, that's my limit.

I totally agree though, most people get meat from a supermarket were it is all nice and clean. This really creates a seperation from where the meat actually comes from, which is an animal!

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#1006973 - 19/08/2011 21:31 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: MC Thomas]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
MCT, I'm an old country guy. I eat a lot of meat. I have killed numerous animals both small and large, both tame and vermin and worst of all over the years, some loved personal and family pets.

I used to kill our farm sheep for meat for my household.
Nearly always except for some very cruel and nasty killers, I did that killing with a near sickening revulsion at the thought that I was taking the life of a living animal, a living even thinking animal that like myself knew fear, could express joy as they gamboled around, could show hate when they attacked a common enemy, could show affection for one of their own kind and sometimes even for those not of their own, could show true loyalty as I have seen even a wild galah remain for days along side of his / her road killed mate, something that really tore at my heart.

I would look at the eyes of those animals and could see the intelligence that is a part of and the reason for "life".

Yes, I also am a softie and don't regret it one little bit

And yet I and my family also had to eat to survive and just like every other omnivore on this planet I also had to kill those further down the food chain to live so kill I very reluctantly did until I could no longer stomach the killing and just let somebody else perhaps less squeamish than myself do the killing and that perhaps in a kinder and more humane way using a stun gun before the animal was slaughtered.

But I could also at times kill without compunction such as crows [ more correctly Ravens ] which took out the eyes of the ewes while they were down and giving birth and then those same crows would attack the new born lamb and kill it by pecking it to death or i could very happily kill foxes which ate just the tongues of new born lambs which mean't a terrible slow death for those lambs.
I could and did kill rabbits in their dozens and hundreds and thousands for what they did in destroying so much wild life here in Australia by stripping it bare during the great rabbit plagues of yesteryear.
I have killed thousands of stinking utterly revolting plague mice.
I have and will kill wild and feral cats at every opportunity and very occasionally a wandering domestic cat which does lead to somebody wondering where their beloved puddy tat might have gone. But if you ever saw what a hunting cat does to small defenseless creatures and birds then you also would kill them without any compunction.

Sadly, killing is a part of natural order of events and of Nature. It always has been. It always will be.
Those vegetarians who are so full of and so sure of their righteousness just simply don't even comprehend that those non animal products they are so fixated on were grown at the expense of lives of billions of tiny creatures whose habitats and lives were destroyed so that others further, much further up the food chain could acquire and eat what they believed and demanded as their right. Or those tiny critters were destroyed by the chemicals used to grow those non animal products.

Just because the tiny critters may not be visible to the naked eye and just because they are not furry and cuddly and photogenic, does that make those tiny critters less important than the fury cuddly, photogenic creatures so beloved of the do gooders and the environmentalists ?
Truth is that those tiny barely visible and even tinnier invisible critters in their immense numbers far beyond measure are far more important to mankind and the planet that any of the furry, cuddly, photogenic creatures so beloved of all the do gooders of this planet.
And yet their lives are not counted in the eyes of so much of humanity and we kill them in their billions so that we might eat and survive.
Nature, red in tooth and claw. Always has been! Always will be! And we are just another part of nature.

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#1007038 - 20/08/2011 16:11 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ROM]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
As an omnivore I feel I have an advantage but admittedly I have also been vegetarian/vegan in the past mostly due to health reasons as opposed to environmental or ethical - though I can totally see the validity of all arguments. Its strange but lately cow meat smells really off to me - it seems to carry with it the stench of death & [censored]... and trust me when something like that assails the senses - you won't eat it. It's a big turn off - as a result I am eating less and less red meat. I would like to try locally produced and farm butchered pig /cow meat as opposed to buying meat that has been killed and processed through an'abattoir'. Since seeing the trembling face of that mooie that was subjected to watching it's brethren killed and cut up in front of it's very eyes something has changed inside of me. Once that awareness and change happens -there is no going back so I am embracing this change in myself and seeing it as an opportunity to eat ethically.

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#1007058 - 20/08/2011 18:56 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sara B]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
You really spoilt your very valid comments Chunky by closing with "to eat ethically".
The use of term "to eat ethically" in the context of this discussion on eating meat would, I think, generally be a highly emotive term most used by those who are intolerant of any other opinions, beliefs and behavior that does not fall into line with their own strongly held personal beliefs on what you should and should not be allowed to eat.
And those same "ethically correct" persons as a consequence both hypocritically and and shamelessly attempt to use highly emotive language as propaganda to try and induce a feeling of guilt in others as well as elevating their own highly self esteemed and self centred selves to some high moral ground that is far superior to the shamelessly guilt free, food of all kinds consuming proletariat that indulges in this disgusting meat eating behavior and consequently is far beneath their "ethically" and "morally superior" non meat eating selves.

Chunky, I would be really surprised if you actually mean't to use "ethically" in the context of this discussion in the way you did as that hard line is not how the rest of your post reads at all. And it was a post I could understand and sympathise with your feelings and your reactions at least until those last couple of words.

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#1007171 - 21/08/2011 12:10 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ROM]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
You don't have the right to judge me or my opinion and target me personally. I suggest that you start reading up on what 'Bullying, Harassment & Discrimination' actually is - because there are actually very real legal implications associated with trauma & victimisation. Lately there are many people like you - out on the prowl - looking for a victim. Please don't take your anger and frustration out on me as I find it unacceptable.
If I feel that killing animals in an abattoir is unethical - based on my growing awareness - then that is my opinion - based on my own thoughts and feelings on the matter. I have every right to an opinion and every right to state my opinion on a public forum. You have every right to have a different opinion but instead you are attacking me and it makes me feel like I cannot post here without being on the butt end of your aggression. Bullying is a form of violence and is detrimental to human health & wellbeing. If you wanted to discuss your opinion on ethical eating - and what that means to you or by referring to factual information - please go ahead. Noone is stopping you.
You could and should do that without denigrating my own personal viewpoint on what ethical eating is. What you are doing is trying to use a form of bullying to stop healthy discussion and in fact you have gone a step further and are assuming that you have the right to judge me. I'll be judged in a court of law or by God himself... but not by you.
Cheers


Edited by chunkyluxtrax (21/08/2011 12:20)
Edit Reason: Speciesism results in monoculture...

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#1007174 - 21/08/2011 12:39 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sara B]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Chunky, apologies if it seemed to you that I was attacking you. I never intended that in any way.
I read your post and for the greatest part of it I could understand your feelings and reactions and I respected that and had absolutely no problem with that but I was non plussed by your ending as the rest of your post never came across as tending to extremes. Rather to me you were merely expressing your personal choice and to me, quite acceptable beliefs on your food choices which is entirely your right and your right to do so without interference or moralising on mine or anybody else's part.
All that until those final words.

I stand by my comments on the use of terms like "to eat ethically" as that immediately implies that somehow the writer of those words is morally and infinitely superior in their own opinion to those who do not chose to live the way the writer does and frankly I also am sick of being somehow branded as an evil doer by many do- gooders [ which you didn't do and which I didn't class you as a do-gooder at all and still don't ] for eating the way that nearly all of mankind still prefers to eat and the way that mankind and his ancestors long before him have lived and eaten for maybe a couple of million years past.


Edited by ROM (21/08/2011 12:49)

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#1007282 - 21/08/2011 23:38 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ROM]
Markus Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 02/12/2010
Posts: 2055
Loc: Clare, SA
ROM im glad your one of the people who respect the smaller creatures as they play huge roles in the ecological sustainability of their particular area.
One thing i want to explain from my personal point of view which i may have come across differently in my previous post is the killing of animals side of things. When I go shooting it only ever has two purposes, conservation hunting and obtaining food. I personally dont enjoy ending somethings life but if it means saving the rightful inhabitants of the area then im all for it. When it comes to butchering that really isnt a nice job and i would certainly perfer to not to have to do it but since the meat is used an not wasted then theres no wrong to be done. However people who go out to shoot kangaroos in the hundreds and leave them there to die well i feel disgrace for them.

I just believe that a mixture of meat and vegetation should present in everyones diet as its what we are designed to eat
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#1007285 - 21/08/2011 23:57 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ROM]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
Originally Posted By: ROM
Chunky, apologies

Accepted.
I'm not really interested in entering debate about superiority... because I think that detracts from the focus - which for me is on the wellbeing of the cow. My ideas of ethical eating are pretty simplistic at this point in time but that might change into the future according to circumstance or situation.

Generally- I want food in my belly that has been cared for: all the animals needs met and from an animal that is happy. When I look around CQ in any paddock, any one of those cows would fit that description. But beyond that I want the cow to be round up from it's happy life foraging around the field, in a way that is sensitive to the animals wellbeing, including it's feelings. We all know when animals are distressed because we can recogise signs in their behaviour. I think current transport modes to abbattoirs are generally a little stressful to the animal depending on the distances travelled and the level of care provided. Smaller producers that transport their own animals can obviously exercise more control. The situation for a farm butchered cow will probably involve several cows rather than hundreds so transport mode is probably more diverse and needs looking at on a case by case basis.

Then when the animal enters the abbatoir holding yards I would like to think that there is also a level of appropriate care provided in the form of food, water, shade and barriers /seperation from the killing areas. Ideally the cows are spoken to in a kind manner and treated gently.... it's been so long since i have been in an abattoir - probably about time I go and check it all out again. As for the slaughtering practice, I again would prefer that the cow is treated with respect and not just as flesh.
This animal has happily wandered the fields for most of it's life, and has family relationships with the other cows as well as with it's owner. I often see cattle running up to the gate if they think their owner is arriving (anticipating some tasty treat no doubt) and I have also seen how the cows mourn when some of their kin are taken away... so yeh for me ethical means being conscious of the fact that the cow is actually a living being that has sensibilities & feelings. I feel like cows are good natured beings, peaceful and docile and they deserve to be treated equivilant to any other animal with respects to welfare & animal rights. As for whether they have thoughts I do not know.... I have never ever seen a cow look up at the sky to watch a passing plane... but if anyone else out there has seen that behaviour, please let me know because I have often wondered about it. Obviously their feed is on the ground so thats where they focus most of their attention.
anyways back to the slaughter... I would like to see practices that reduce the level of distress to the animal. In the abattoir it is such a processed operation, no doubt it becomes very mechanical for the operators and the wellbeing of the animal is not exactly the high priority whereas cleanliness and efficiency probably would be.
I don't think it is asking too much to ensure that cows do not see the cows in front of them being slaughtered and cut apart, there should be some mechanism for maintaining separation and to ensure they are not overhearing or sensing the distress /fear of the cows that went before them. I think smell must also play an important part where it is probably obvious to the cows that 'something is up' when they smell blood /guts of other cows. So washing down between cows or whetever other mechanisms to reduce the impact.. Ensuring the cows are blissfully unaware of whats about to happen is important to me and any effort to stun, sedate or desensitise the cow prior to the event would be my personal preference. Ultimately the cow will be killed - I know thats not pretty...

So for me, not suggesting that anyone needs to take my opinion on board, I take issue with the processing of cattle as a meat product without any consideration of their being, their life, their feelings. I think that we need to respect the cows that will feed us and that the good care that farmers provide to their cattle should be carried on through to the slaughter. I mean it's not like cattle can be debriefed before hand or anything but geez they are living beings and I cannot help but identify with their pain and fear. I am not criticising those people who do not feel the same way - I am just trying to explain where I am coming from. The products that suit other people will not necessarily suit everyone. In this day and age consumer power is growing and personally I am going to be a discerning customer and want to source products from animals - who in every aspect of their living state have been treated with respect.
Thats why I said in earlier post that I want to source farm butchered meat. I have friends who all go in for a few cows and put them on a mates property and then someone looks after them, they normally employ a farm butcher to do the killing and my brother-inlaw helps with the butchering because he is qualifed - then they all divy it up and have meat all year round. So for me thats a much more acceptable practice though I understand not everyone can source meat in this way and that majority of people rely on the supermarket/ local butcher.

As for my distant ancestors, they would have sourced food from the wild, most of them probably subsisted on bread & potatoes (lol) and would have kept their own animals if indeed they even had that luxury. I believe agricultural practises have changed significantly in the last 200 years due to the globalisation of trade.. so the wider debate of meat-eating is not something I am even talking about here.

Going back to ethical eating, I kind of like the hunterer gatherer method which is pretty much impossible in this day and age - but the kangaroo harvest by singleshot to the head for example represents a method that I feel is acceptable. The roo never knows what is coming probably feels no pain. These days there is probably no way for the roo to know it's being hunted but I also imagine that indigenous hunters had to use great skill and cunning to catch their prey and I kind of like the idea that the wild animal also has the chance to get away - hunters do not always get their kill. Just seems more natural to me, more reflecting of the true connection that humans have with their environment & prey and I can't help but having that as a preference.

But again - just so noone thinks I am implying that they do not eat ethically - this is just my version of ethical eating... I don't generally discriminate on practices for veges, pesticide free local grown is the best and we have plenty of it locally. I do prefer free range chickens and eggs...I love wild caught reef fish and with my uncle being a spear fisherman and enjoying fishing myself - that's another bonus of living in my region...

anyways ROM - I simply accept that everyone is different because that helps me get by in this world -
If you do want to explore the opinions on ethical eating that are out there, here are a few links
http://www.sustainableinsight.com.au/shop/ethical-eating-by-angela-crocombe-260-page-book.html
http://www.apo.org.au/video/rosemary-stanton-ethical-eating
http://www.bfa.com.au/Portals/0/BFAFiles/PDFs/p18-19%20Ethical%20Eating.pdf
http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s2024960.htm
as you can see there is a lot of divergence and diversity in this topic - personally it is of very recent interest to me and I am really at the information gathering stage because currently that is not how I am living my life... change doesn't happen overnight.. and I need to work out what is practical, achievable and affordable for me and inevitably my version of eating ethically may not actually be the same as anyone elses anyway.
I respect every individuals right to exercise free choice on the matter so pls respect my right to have my own opinions. I breathe the same air as everyone else, no different really.


Edited by chunkyluxtrax (22/08/2011 00:07)

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#1007327 - 22/08/2011 10:13 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sara B]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
Thanks Clunky. And my apologies again.
I made two bads in my post.
First I just assumed your definition of "ethical eating" was the same as those of the animal liberators and outfits like PETA who have deliberately set out to destroy the farming of animals of any type and are trying to force onto the society their ideaology that we should not be allowed to keep any animals at all, including pets, let alone kill them for human consumption.
The term "ethical eating" I immediately associated with these extremist organisations.
Your definition of "ethical eating" as I read it is a thoroughly pragmatic and worthy plea for humane and caring respect for animals and their welfare even though they will be used as food. And that for any reasonably thinking person is something that should be fully supported by everybody who has any sort of compassion and a respect for life of any sort.

When using the internet forums one of the traps that we are warned of is the loss of the nuances of vocal speech which in our everyday personal interactions with one another plays a very significant role in ironing out those subtle appreciations that the written word does not and can rarely convey.

And that was my second bad in that my post was poorly constructed so as to make it appear that I was attacking you which was never my intention.
Rather I was ranting on the type of psychology that the animal libbers and the likes of peta who use terms similar to "ethical eating" to try and enforce the concept of their own moral superiority and to convey that they are superior morally and ethically because they are against keeping animals of any sort let alone killing animals for their meat and for human consumption.


And Markus, I think you and I are on pretty much the same wavelength there so thanks for that.

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#1007405 - 22/08/2011 17:33 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ROM]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
Originally Posted By: ROM
When using the internet forums one of the traps that we are warned of is the loss of the nuances of vocal speech which in our everyday personal interactions with one another plays a very significant role in ironing out those subtle appreciations that the written word does not and can rarely convey.


That is very well articulated and I couldn't agree more.

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#1008630 - 29/08/2011 21:08 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sara B]
Ree Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 24/01/2010
Posts: 873
Loc: Balnagowan, 20km nth Mackay
My family eat meat 2-3 meals a day, I would very unpopular if I tried to cut it out.

I grew up not knowing much about farming and not much about where my food came from, except a supermarket. 20 years on ....... I am on an acreage and have a free range pig farm that also supplies us with pork, we have some cattle for our beef and I have edible gardens (all my plants are edible or useful in someway). Everything tastes better and the meat is alot tastier and tender.

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#1008685 - 30/08/2011 05:38 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Ree]
Sara B Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/01/2011
Posts: 318
Loc: Dugandan
Thats what I am working towards Ree

Though atm I am still buying meat from the supermarket... I'm not going to beat myself up about it. Gotta eat what is available until I establish the right connections and networks to be more discriminating in my choices & despite my best intentions I also eat macca's at times. I guess that we can all have ideals but putting them into practice takes concerted effort and more - the building and working towards self-sufficiency (no doubt with blood sweat & tears along the way).

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#1008753 - 30/08/2011 11:10 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sara B]
Ree Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 24/01/2010
Posts: 873
Loc: Balnagowan, 20km nth Mackay
Chunky, I eat out and get takeaways I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I don't want my kids to miss out. Imagine how kids at school would react if they hadn't been to Macca's or Hungry Jacks.

It would be sometimes impossible and alot of hard work to be totally self-sufficient but semi self-sufficient is very satisfying. Sometimes (alot lately) the weather doesn't do what it should and different climates restrict what you can grow, I am not going to stop eating something I like for example brussel sprouts because they don't grow here. But in times like cyclones and floods the last few years when supermarkets have been stripped we don't lack anything. It's great to watch my kids for after school snacks head out into my gardens and eat strawberries, bananas, raspberries, mulberries, beans etc. Good luck, PM me if you have any questions.

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#1009917 - 04/09/2011 11:55 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Ree]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
You might like to find your local Permaculture organisation for some help in becoming self or semi self sufficient guys. These people are realists, not hippy green wayne kerrs who want to turn you into vego's. Sure some of them are (vegans/vegos/whatever) but the majority believe that a complete system can be achived even in an urban backyard. No it isn't easy, there are no instant fixes but it can be done. It is more in tune with living with the land instead of flogging yourself and the land into doing what you want it to do and this includes meat production.

As to methane causing increased green house gases what the 'experts' don't tell you is that methane breaks down over about a 7 (+/- 1 year) year period and doesn't accumulate as they say it does. Sure increasing it can cause problems but they aren't permanent as whatever is produced eventually breaks down.
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#1009964 - 04/09/2011 17:56 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: SBT]
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
A good site to follow is Milkwood

This young couple seem to have their heads screwed on and are pretty pragmatic when it comes to permaculture.
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#1079274 - 21/02/2012 18:53 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: SBT]
kimhumpries Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 02/02/2012
Posts: 15
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Climate change is a human error and we should take any step to stop it.
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#1079284 - 21/02/2012 19:08 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: kimhumpries]
Brett Guy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 4840
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
What everyone also seems to forget is that the numbers of animals emmiting methane was the same in pre-human history as it is now. It's just that now all thoose animals are on farms and not in the wild. ie methane emmissions no different now than there used to be.

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#1079421 - 21/02/2012 22:17 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Brett Guy]
adon Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 19/08/2004
Posts: 5251
Loc: Not tellin!
Originally Posted By: Brett Guy
What everyone also seems to forget is that the numbers of animals emmiting methane was the same in pre-human history as it is now. It's just that now all thoose animals are on farms and not in the wild. ie methane emmissions no different now than there used to be.


Well maybe you are right but I think that maybe the make up of animals is a little different. Yes there were lots of animals similar to cattle in the past but were they the same in their grazing habits and the breeding may make them more "hard" on their surroundings and their distributions is different(Australia had no sheep/cattle/goats etc.)

But really people eat meat as it has more bang for the buck nutrition wise than other protein sources. Telling people not to eat something that we are designed to eat is silly and really is just a caused that has jumped on the AGW bandwagon in an effort to suck people into turning veg for any reason as long as they give up. Wonder when AGW finally falls over, what will the vegies try to con people with afterwards?

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#1079483 - 22/02/2012 00:29 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: kimhumpries]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Originally Posted By: kimhumpries
Climate change is a human error and we should take any step to stop it.

Prove it. It shouldn't be all that hard. They have only been investigating this for how long now?
Come on and tell me the science is in, that the IPCC is infallible, that the AGW is a real and explainable action caused by humans, that the IPCC/CRU are entirely correct even though they haven't been caught hundreds of times fudging figures, blackmailing those who oppose them and colluding in hiding what they have discovered. Let them release their raw data, let them show the world that they have a theory that holds up to scutiny and I might, just might agree with you. The only science in cAGW is political science.
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#1079529 - 22/02/2012 09:38 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Ree]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 4035
Loc: El Arish
Originally Posted By: Ree
Chunky, I eat out and get takeaways I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I don't want my kids to miss out. Imagine how kids at school would react if they hadn't been to Macca's or Hungry Jacks.


Missing out? missing out on what? Heart disease? obesity? plastic food? a mass produced toy that will be broken before it gets home? Have a look at the "nutrition" panel on the back of Maccas "food" they are laced with sugar,salt and 1 burger contains more than your daily allowance of fat in 1 serve.
And what is the benefit of eating out? it is in no way cheaper than making a meal yourself, it would cost around $30 to feed a family of 5.

Our older children have not been to Mc Donald's now for about 4 years and our younger children have never been to Mc Donald's and do you think they are missing out? NO they are not, what are your children going to remember you for when they are older? the quality time you spent with them or the times that you took them to "Maccas"
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#1079711 - 22/02/2012 19:59 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
Brett Guy Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 4840
Loc: Bently Park, Cairns
Yeah. I sort of agree with that. Even though I eat it there is nothing good about fast food. Cook em up a great bit of roo on the BBQ and yoou will be doing them a much bigger favour.

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#1079855 - 23/02/2012 07:42 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Brett Guy]
adon Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 19/08/2004
Posts: 5251
Loc: Not tellin!
Yep fast food is easy and lazy. Yep I eat it too on the occasion but I live an our away from the nearest(don't really put the local cafe in the same box cos it is better than that crap) so I dont get tempted unless I am in the bigger towns.

I reckon your into something there Brett, I love roo! Had some the other night in a resturant and LOVED it! less forgiving to cook that lamb/beef though.

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#1079949 - 23/02/2012 12:20 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: adon]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
Fast food from the big chains is dreadful stuff. It smells to me like it's already half-digested. There was a Southpark episode that made that point rather crudely!

Feeding it to kids on a regular basis is just lazy parenting, it's manufactured food, full of salt, sugar and fat and an amazing array of chemicals to do various things. That "craving" for McDonalds is for the sugar they load it with, yes the hamburgers.

Food from a local takeaway that makes most of its own stuff is a bit different, it's fatty and salty, but for occasional eating it won't do harm. I reckon mincing a bit of roo meat into the hamburger patties would be a great way to go. Good hamburgeries make their own patties.

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#1080281 - 24/02/2012 10:30 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: ant]
Sandfly Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 18/10/2010
Posts: 828
Loc: Rockhampton
Who can afford to eat meat these days anyway? I prob have 2 serves a week, and it's usually cheapest cuts like trotters, neck or chicket legs & wings, saussages. Prime cuts like steak, chicken breast, or lamb is for now only Miners or Corporate Executives
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#1080363 - 24/02/2012 13:55 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sandfly]
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
I don't understand the economies of anyone buying meat at supermarkets. In this area it's at least twice as expensive as the butcher.

I have actually started myself to eat less red meat, not out of consideration of animals (which I love nevertheless), but for health reasons. And it saves money! Everything has been given to us for our use and benefit; the issue is whether we do that humanely, not whether we do it at all. I think also that our good health is far more important than that of a herd of cows. For one thing I need it. It's how most of us are made, though some can go without. For that reason it's fine if people want to cut it out completely but they will struggle to find an equivalent iron intake. Better to consult a nutritionist beforehand, I think.

So I am eating it only twice a week or so and have lost 4 kilos in the last 7 weeks.

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#1080413 - 24/02/2012 16:04 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sandfly]
adon Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 19/08/2004
Posts: 5251
Loc: Not tellin!
Originally Posted By: Sandfly
Who can afford to eat meat these days anyway? I prob have 2 serves a week, and it's usually cheapest cuts like trotters, neck or chicket legs & wings, saussages. Prime cuts like steak, chicken breast, or lamb is for now only Miners or Corporate Executives


Well I would not go that far but yes it is expensive. However when you see the price for meat in the place you buy where ever that may be. Just remember that the person who is growing the stock where the meat is coming from is not getting anywhere near the price for the animal in the sale yards. Today the market price for a lamb was around $4.50/kg carcass weight and for cattle it is around $2/kg. Now the processors rightly say that there is a lot of waste that comes from an animal(guts/bone ect.) but they usually have some market for this stuff so IMO that is not where the costs come in. It is the transport, refriguration and middle men along with huge amounts of red tape that processirs must go through now to comply with health/aminal welfare and god knows what other standards that are chucked in there by big brother/nanny state governments that are at fault here. These regs and rules have shut most of the smaller processors out of the market and now there are only a few processors left doing huge numbers every week. They buy animals from hundreds of km away to keep their numbers up. All coming at extra cost to you the people who eat it.

I grow lamb, so in a way I am insulated from at least some of the prices people are paying. However I still feel that meat, for what it is(highly nutritious food with good bang for the buck bulk wise), is not over priced. Compared to a packet of chips that now are $1.50 for 45g at the cafe in town. This is not even one full potato! All it goes through is a peeler and a slicer and then som hot oil and into a packet( yes there is more but sheesh!) Now the poor bugger growing that spud is probably getting around .20c/kg for potatoes must be scratching his head seeing how a thing he got paid about 5-10c for is now worth $1.50 wouldn't he?

There are so many examples of where food when you consider how it is made for you, is so well overpriced yet meat seems to be to first thing to spring to mind.

While we are on the subject, did anybody notice if the price of bread dropped at all from this time last year? Funny' cos wheat dropped about 30% or more. Same with beer and so many other things that come from grain. The price fell so quickly and by so much that most farmers out here made NOTHING from pretty handy crops. And yet we are told that we are facing a challenge in feeding the world! Well I am simply not planting crops for grain this year and will be just sticking to lambs. At least they are paying their way.

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#1080430 - 24/02/2012 16:39 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: adon]
Sandfly Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 18/10/2010
Posts: 828
Loc: Rockhampton
Well be need to bring back farmers markets, where local produce can be sold straight to the buying public. The producers will get better prices, the shoppers get better fresher items, and the giant corporations that currently run the supermarkets will fade away as a bad memory.
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#1080701 - 24/02/2012 23:27 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sandfly]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
I love proper markets. They used to have a brilliant one in Queanbeyan, run by rotary, at the showgrounds, and people did bring their stuff, even bits of meat they'd butchered, bread they'd baked, veggies they'd grown, soap they'd made. And then it got shut down, I have NO idea why. They tried to run a little one near the river, but it just died. Such a market allows the really small operators to sell what they grow or make, and create a market for themselves. There's heaps of people who will prefer to buy at such markets, and talk to the person who grew the food.

My mother grows apples and makes her living selling them direct to people who take the trouble to come out to the farm and buy them. Fact is, in recent years, we could easily sell twice as many as what we've got, demand is through the roof.

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#1080858 - 25/02/2012 09:37 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: Sandfly]
adon Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 19/08/2004
Posts: 5251
Loc: Not tellin!
Originally Posted By: Sandfly
Well be need to bring back farmers markets, where local produce can be sold straight to the buying public. The producers will get better prices, the shoppers get better fresher items, and the giant corporations that currently run the supermarkets will fade away as a bad memory.


However you will quickly find that foods you buy every week will not be available all year round from markets and while this is not a bad thing, it would take some getting used to. Having to eat only what is in season would be quite a challenge and I suspect there would be some boring food during winter.

Also all of the regulations regarding....well everything to do with food and selling it makes farmers markets pretty hard for most farmers and I reckon a lot of them would either want to take a break on the weekend or be working on their farms instead of being at a market selling produce.

Also for the average farmer out here where I am selling wheat direct to the public would be impossible.

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#1177274 - 26/02/2013 17:37 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: bd bucketingdown]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14146
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Farmers markets can work in rural areas but the distances that farmers have to travel can be a hassle Adon and what you sell also has a problem as you pointed out - selling wheat to teh general public wouldn't work - well except for my missus who makes heat packs with wheat but then she only buys about 40Kg a year.

A stall holder next to us (we sell candles at Willows Markets on Sunday mornings) on most weekends travels from the Burdekin to Townsville. A 3 to 4 hour drive that he does once a week so he can sell direct to the public for 5 hours (offically) on a Sunday. He has to cover costs, pay wages for his two helpers and make a profit. The veges he sells are top quality, harvested within 24 hours of you buying them and yes you pay a premium price but the upshot is that it is as fresh as you can get and you can preorder whatever is in season and he will supply whenever he can. At the end of each day he sells whatever is left to a couple of cafes in Townsville which he delivers to on his way out of town.

North Shore development (Townsville) also has a Farmers Market on a Saturday but at an average of $75.00 a site for the day it is too exepnsive for him to bother with.
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2017 Total 688mm
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2013 Total 715mm







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#1177312 - 26/02/2013 18:18 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: adon]
bundybear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/12/2010
Posts: 2005
Loc: Between Bundy and Gladstone
Originally Posted By: adon
[
However you will quickly find that foods you buy every week will not be available all year round from markets and while this is not a bad thing, it would take some getting used to. Having to eat only what is in season would be quite a challenge and I suspect there would be some boring food during winter.



Most of my fruit and veg comes direct from farmers or farmers co op shops.

I have no boring food because I freeze/bottle/dry seasonal things so I can enjoy them throughout the off times.

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#1183373 - 14/03/2013 17:08 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: bd bucketingdown]
FAC Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 10/09/2012
Posts: 4
Loc: Canberra (Sth side)
The Farmers market in Canberra (at EPIC) is pretty good. Runs every Saturday morning. Lots of variety in the goods on offer, meat (some game meats included), fish, veggies, fruit and great bread. It isnt all cheap compared to what you nay get a Woolies or Coles however i dont think you can compare the difference in food quality or fresahness (no matter what the two supermarket chains try and tell you) so i'm happy to pay the extra. Plus i know that the money is going back into the producers pockets rather than being distributed between all the 'other hands' that it took to get coles and woolies their produce leaving little for the producer (farmer).
Is still 'source' my own meat from time to time on a few properties that i have access to. Adds something different to the diet when you can have free range pig and venison on your plate.

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#1183485 - 14/03/2013 22:22 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: bd bucketingdown]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
I miss those markets, they used to move to Queanbeyan in the afternoon, to the showgrounds, and it was awesome. Great stuff for sale, you couldn't help but buy it. I don't know what happened, but it stopped. Some of the local town markets provide an outlet for small local farmers and producers, but I don't think you could earn a living from it.

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#1198857 - 13/06/2013 15:02 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: bd bucketingdown]
Finn Felton Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 10/06/2013
Posts: 4
Imagine if all the people of the world stop eating meat then the consumption of wheat, rice, and vegetable will be increased, which in turn, increases the demand of more vegetarian food and so farming will be done in larger scale. I don't know whether it will have good or bad impact on farmers.
_________________________
Kopi Luwak

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#1199163 - 15/06/2013 13:59 Re: Eat Less Meat!!! [Re: bd bucketingdown]
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
_________________________
YTD Rainfall = 281.0mm (Avg to March 117.0mm)
MTD rainfall March = 34.7mm(Avg 41.3mm)
February 2011 total = 203.9mm (Avg 37.8mm)
2010 Rainfall: 759.3mm (Annual Avg: 521.5mm)

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