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#1108508 - 07/06/2012 22:17 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Blizzard]
avalon Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/07/2007
Posts: 1332
Loc: Mt Macedon Vic 870m elev
It was in Lithgow PD. Im sure it was 72. We were house bound without power for the whole day. My Uncle drove us the next day to my Aunts at Lidsdale, it took absolutely ages and there was still heavy snow on the ground. it was a scary drive, five of us in a Ute. Before seatbelts!

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#1108663 - 08/06/2012 22:57 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Southerly_Buster]
Laurier Williams Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/02/2001
Posts: 2116
Loc: Millthorpe, 970m, Central W NS...
Originally Posted By: Southerly_Buster
Originally Posted By: DaveM

Road too wide to be a back road so it's most likely the highway and I suspect like Blizz the around the top of the River Lett Hill or even a tad towards the Hassans Walls section of road (near the picnic area/lookout of today) is the most likely area and on the old road. That's my strong impression of the view.

I'd say you're right. It says the photo was taken near "South Bowenfels", so probably on the old 40 bends looking south towards Hampton.

To me, the country matches the view you get looking east from the top of River Lett Hill, just before the first sharp bend coming down the hill. Compare the photo with this Google Maps image [here] noting especially the ridge lines, change around a few trees to allow for 40 years of development, and allow for the fact that the photo seems to have been taken on a telephoto lens or fairly heavily cropped. I believe you can make out the escarpment between Mts York and Victoria through the murk in the background and the powerlines in the foreground - interestingly the powerlines still exist.

I don't think it's on the forty bends, as they ceased to be part of the GWH in 1958 when the deviation was built [see here], although the old pretty heavily tree-lined road still exists today. I also can't think of any section of the Jenolan Caves Road with similar topography - the only sections from Good Forest through Lowther to Hampton that are exposed to the east are much higher than the surrounding country.
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#1108670 - 08/06/2012 23:22 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Conquis]
Laurier Williams Offline
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Registered: 01/02/2001
Posts: 2116
Loc: Millthorpe, 970m, Central W NS...
Originally Posted By: Conquis


Yes, very well found, Conquis. As PD noted, the newsreader sounds the same as on the radio bulletin I have on my site - namely Paul Maclay. The mp3 of the full radio news bulletin is [here] , and apart from the interest in the snow situation, I love the liesurely way in which radio and the news was presented back then. Listening to the TV program and the news broadcast, I think what the program producers have done is use a concoction of video with the taped archive of the radio news as the soundtrack. Paul was a great newsreader, but I don't think he was good enough to do the radio and TV news bulletins simultaneously - they both occurred at 7pm and were different products.

What caught my attention in the TV program was the zoom in on the hand-analysed surface chart which is time/dated 11am 19 July 1965. The surface situation certainly doesn't look as if it could have produced such a cold outbreak, though it certainly delivered the moisture. Obviously, upper conditions were at work, and I've gone hunting back through the NCEP reanalysis charts to piece the situation together. When I get this stuff presentable, I'll post a link to it - it is quite fascinating.
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#1108674 - 08/06/2012 23:57 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: avalon]
Laurier Williams Offline
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Registered: 01/02/2001
Posts: 2116
Loc: Millthorpe, 970m, Central W NS...
Originally Posted By: avalon
It was in Lithgow PD. Im sure it was 72. We were house bound without power for the whole day. My Uncle drove us the next day to my Aunts at Lidsdale, it took absolutely ages and there was still heavy snow on the ground. it was a scary drive, five of us in a Ute. Before seatbelts!


The only references to snowfalls on the CT in 1972 I have in my notes were:

7-8 July: Snow extensive along the tablelands, but only light with a few moderate falls. Heaviest falls appeared to be in the Orange and Oberon districts - up to 6 inches snow on Mt Canobolas and 3-4 inches in the Oberon area late morning of 7th. Great Western Highway closed for several hours during the night and early morning of 8th and several district roads cut.

11-12 August: Snow extensive along the tablelands, but only light with a few moderate falls.

By comparison, the early September 1970 fall (in which the Chrysler Plainsman featured), was a real whopper:

1 September: Continuous snow during the afternoon gave Mount Victoria 25cm, Blackheath 23cm and Wentworth Falls and Oberon 15cm snow on the ground. Molong, Blayney, Mudgee, Taralga and Hill End also reported snow. Road and rail traffic were disrupted. Widespread but lighter snow was reported from the Blue Mountains and Orange areas on the previous day. The Age (2/9/1970): "Snow fell throughout Monday night and until 10 o'clock yesterday (1st) morning at Katoomba, isolating the town. Police feared for the safety of 60 bushwalkers in the Grose Valley." SMH (2/9/1970): "Snow cut the Great Western Highway and Bells Line of Road; bus services temporarily abandoned and postal deliveries severely hampered. 10 inches fell at Mt Victoria, 9 at Blackheath and Wentworth Falls, and 6 at Oberon. Most districts above the 2,500ft contour had heavy snow and hundreds of cars were abandoned by the roadsides, worsening traffic congestion...Stranded motorists filled hotels in Lithgow. Late last night many were preparing to sleep in their cars. Fifty cars were stranded for several hours near Yetholme...but they were able to continue their journeys when the road was cleared at about 12.30pm [1st]. Later the highway was again closed and was unlikely to be reopened until this morning."

avalon, are you sure it wasn't 1970?
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#1108697 - 09/06/2012 09:58 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Laurier Williams]
GrizzlyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/06/2011
Posts: 2101
Loc: Yetholme [1180m] Central Table...
Originally Posted By: Laurier Williams
Originally Posted By: Southerly_Buster
Originally Posted By: DaveM

Road too wide to be a back road so it's most likely the highway and I suspect like Blizz the around the top of the River Lett Hill or even a tad towards the Hassans Walls section of road (near the picnic area/lookout of today) is the most likely area and on the old road. That's my strong impression of the view.

I'd say you're right. It says the photo was taken near "South Bowenfels", so probably on the old 40 bends looking south towards Hampton.

To me, the country matches the view you get looking east from the top of River Lett Hill, just before the first sharp bend coming down the hill. Compare the photo with this Google Maps image [here] noting especially the ridge lines, change around a few trees to allow for 40 years of development, and allow for the fact that the photo seems to have been taken on a telephoto lens or fairly heavily cropped. I believe you can make out the escarpment between Mts York and Victoria through the murk in the background and the powerlines in the foreground - interestingly the powerlines still exist.

I don't think it's on the forty bends, as they ceased to be part of the GWH in 1958 when the deviation was built [see here], although the old pretty heavily tree-lined road still exists today. I also can't think of any section of the Jenolan Caves Road with similar topography - the only sections from Good Forest through Lowther to Hampton that are exposed to the east are much higher than the surrounding country.


I still think it was near the 40 bends section very close to South Bowenfells. The problem in the photo is the steepness and angle of slope of land immediately adjacent the highway, this just does not agree with the any part of River Lett hill from Hartley. The other thing is of course the fact that the photo does say "South Bowenfells", and also given the amount of snow its more likely to be a view to the SSW from 40 bends section immediately on the edge of South Bowenfells. That is what other people from Lithgow think too so I tend to agree. But of course I cannot be 100% sure. You would need to find the exact spot on the highway where there is such a slope.

That 1965 event really is a weird one with that synoptic pattern where you would not expect so much snow. Maybe the climate has already warmed so much that this cannot happen anymore in such a synoptic setup. Laurier, looking foreword to to more details on that event form you when you track them down.

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#1108699 - 09/06/2012 10:07 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: GrizzlyBear]
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10173
Loc: Blue Mountains
Thanks Laurier, PD and all. The steepness and angle of the slope of land might now be notably different from that time as well. A lot of the roads have been upgraded in this area in recent times.

It seems like that 1970 fall was the one my wife experienced with her family. They were at Rylstone. She was pretty young but remembers the snow clearly.
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#1108711 - 09/06/2012 13:19 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Blizzard]
Southerly_Buster Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 3344
Loc: Southern Sydney
I think it's worse for Generation Y'ers like myself who never got to experience the glory days in the 60s and 70s. As the old saying goes "better to have loved and lost.." I'm still fascinated by these accounts though, keep it up.

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#1108717 - 09/06/2012 15:27 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Southerly_Buster]
avalon Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/07/2007
Posts: 1332
Loc: Mt Macedon Vic 870m elev
PD is that 1st of September fall described in 1972? Or is that the one with the Chrysler pic in 70?
Maybe i have my year wrong, if it was 1970 then i would have only been 4 years old, i think i was a bit older.I usually have a good memory, everyone remarks on it, it annoys people cos im always going on and on about things from yonks ago.
The snow happened overnight, we werent expecting it. Although i do remember being out shopping with my mum in Main Street the afternoon before and there were sago snow showers.
It would have been the second week of the aug/sept school hols because my dad wasnt with us, he would have been back in Wollongong at work, he only ever got the first week of the august school hols off.
Two other events that may help date that Lithgow event was a snowfall in Oberon a few days before and floods in the Hawkesbury a few days after. Us kids had never seen snow so my Grandparents took us out to Oberon after hearing of a good fall.

When it was time for us to go home at the end of the hols my dad came back from the 'gong to pick us up and on our way back home we were stuck on flooded roads around Richmond/ Castlereagh.
Anyhow, who knows! Maybe that snowfall has been lost in time. As you said earlier snow events were a dime a dozen around there back then, im sure they havent all been recorded.

The snowfall in late May '74 that is mentioned (i think) on Blizz's site is referred to as "light"
I was in that one as well and i wouldnt have called it light. Police were turning people back on the Bells Line at the Mount Wilson turn off, we were allowed through and got stuck in deep snow at Clarence for a long time behind jack knifed trucks. The army guys from Lithgow were out guiding cars down Scenic Hill and there were inches of snow on the ground in central Lithgow all day. It was brilliant and a great surprise very early in the season.
We were attending my cousins wedding, Not many brides have their wedding pics taken in snow in Australia, Luckily she had the big 70s platform shoes on!





[/quote]

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#1108770 - 09/06/2012 22:36 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: avalon]
Laurier Williams Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 01/02/2001
Posts: 2116
Loc: Millthorpe, 970m, Central W NS...
avalon, 1972 doesn't seem to fit with the flooding. The list of moderate floods at Windsor Bridge [here] doesn't list anything for September 1972, and rainfall in Sydney metro west in late August [here] and early September [here] was negligible. The same applies elsewhere in the Hawkesbury basin.

However, the snowfalls of 23-25 May 1974 could be a contender. There was light snow on the CT on 23 and 24 May with up to 5cm cover reported. Then on 25 May there were substantial falls. The SMH for 26 May, referring to the previous day, said "Snow fell over all the Blue Mountains between 9am and 9pm leaving drifts up to five feet deep." It also said the GWH was blocked for 4 hours between Leura and Bathurst. Snow melt and very heavy rain on 26/27 May led to a 10.24m flood peak at Windsor, close to major flooding. The rainfall figures are [here] for western Sydney and [here] for the CT. If the three-term year was still in operation in 1974, holidays may have been around then, and this certainly matches your other recollections - snow a few days earlier in Oberon and the day before in Lithgow, heavy snow, difficulty on Bells and the flooding.
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#1108856 - 10/06/2012 17:15 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Laurier Williams]
avalon Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/07/2007
Posts: 1332
Loc: Mt Macedon Vic 870m elev
Looks like my memory is about as reliable as C.T snow these days. The flooding i experienced must have been after the May 74 snow, that wedding we attended was on the 25 May 74 and the report of heavy snow after 9am that day fits perfectly.

As for the other time,i cant see how it could have been the big fall in '70, i spoke to my younger sister and she could clearly remember it and she was only born at the start of 1969. I cant think that she would remember something like that at 18 months old.

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#1108916 - 11/06/2012 07:40 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: avalon]
ducksta Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 28/04/2008
Posts: 200
Loc: Lithgow NSW
Hi,
I think i may have posted these links before but i thought i would post them again for people who may not have seen them.

They are of historic snow pictures of Lithgow and Leura. There are some great pictures so check them out!

http://www.historicphotographs.com.au/se...perpage=0&rnd=0

http://www.historicphotographs.com.au/se...ear=0&endYear=0

http://www.historicphotographs.com.au/se...ear=0&endYear=0

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#1109680 - 15/06/2012 19:47 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: ducksta]
floody Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 18/07/2006
Posts: 346
Loc: Bowral
The Bowral shots are AMAZING. Nothing even close to that in the 25 years I've lived here, although there was a 30cm fall in the early 1960s (I'd love to know the date of that...). 5-10cm is normally a big fall for here but there has been no decent settled snow here since 2007.

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#1109765 - 16/06/2012 18:23 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: floody]
Rain Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 31/10/2006
Posts: 12
Loc: Frenchs Forest
My references to those years are:
1970: 16-18 of August saw depths of up to 15cm across the Central Tablelands. 1st of September saw widespread snow across the Central Tablelands with 23cm on the ground at Blackheath and Wentworth Falls recording 15cm!
1972: Snow was extensive across the Central Tablelands on 7/8 July and also 11/12 August but only light to moderate ground coverage.
Also:
6 cms on Barrington Tops on 19 Aug 1970

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#1110366 - 21/06/2012 11:53 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Rain]
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10173
Loc: Blue Mountains
RIP Jim Nugent, died today. A much loved Blackheathen & snow tragic and supplier of many classic snow photos to my site. Bring in the snow for us tomorrow Jimmy...we will miss u at tennis.
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#1110377 - 21/06/2012 12:28 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Blizzard]
DaveM Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 4681
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Sad day for you there Blizz - very sorry to hear that. Such a shame to keep losing these wonderful people with long memories and great stories.

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#1110930 - 23/06/2012 16:51 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: DaveM]
GrizzlyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/06/2011
Posts: 2101
Loc: Yetholme [1180m] Central Table...
Hey Blizz, not sure if you have been on Mount Sugarloaf near Newcastle, there is a plaque there in the memory of the first recorded snowfall on the peak on July 19th 1965. The peak is 412m, but the snow when it falls use to settle to about 350m. Snow also settled there in the 1984 event perhaps the only other known date.

I had a thought that perhaps we will need to start putting up plaques in the BM for the last recorded snowfalls, certainly one can go at WW for 2005. I think we certainly need a plaque for the May 2000 event at perhaps Lawson?, the 1984 event at Woodford? and the 1965 event at Springwood?.

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#1110933 - 23/06/2012 17:25 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: GrizzlyBear]
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10173
Loc: Blue Mountains
Not a bad idea! Maybe I should start a little website page with the last settled fall over 1cm for all alts or something. wink

I think I have been on Mt Sugarloaf but I was fairly young so don't have a strong memory of it.
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Local weather news on Twitter: BlackheathWx

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#1110943 - 23/06/2012 18:03 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Blizzard]
Piaggio Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 19/08/2010
Posts: 13
Loc: FL350

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#1110957 - 23/06/2012 19:52 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: Piaggio]
GrizzlyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/06/2011
Posts: 2101
Loc: Yetholme [1180m] Central Table...
Good pic there, looks like a little winter playground up there, would be great if that happened every year.
Doubt it will happen again though, RIP snow. I should find that picture of the plaque at least I have it somewhere.
Website sounds good Blizz, Yes about 1cm could be the criteria, needs to be a settled fall as a minimum. I would not count a few snowflakes, so often in the media people scream it snowed somewhere but in fact it was only a snow flake not a snow fall. Then you have to be careful a snowfall is not confused with a hail fall too.

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#1111147 - 25/06/2012 09:21 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings [Re: GrizzlyBear]
avalon Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/07/2007
Posts: 1332
Loc: Mt Macedon Vic 870m elev
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6443/bluemountains19900003w.jpg
The second of two settled snow falls i experienced whilst living in Wentworth Falls in 1990.
When i moved up to the B.M. it was generally accepted that as long as you lived higher than Boddington Hill you would see settled snow fairly often. It is sad to think that it has been 7 years since snow settled in WF.
I have been trying to think about where is the lowest elevation that i have seen snow in Australia, probably here, i saw some settled(but light!) snow just out of Gisborne in VIC at just under 500m. Other than that i would say right at the very toop of Macquarie Pass near Robertson. A very decent fall in 84.


Edited by avalon (25/06/2012 09:29)

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