My experience with organic is that its mostly grown by small operators that take care growing and picking the product right.

Its always going to be better than industrial food that is grown at the cheapest possible cost.

Non organic growers can produce fantastic food as well, however they can not compete with industrial grown products.
And our marketing systems don't care what stuff tastes like, or that you took extra care growing it they just buy on price.
At least if you grow organic you should be able to distinguish your product from industrial food

I grew non organic crops that were every bit as good to eat as organic products.

I could not compete with the industrial growers that just grew as cheap as possible and produced poor quality food.

Unless you are organic you cant get a premium for good food, our marketing system only works on price not quality

DOH! double post there!

We are hand santizing ourselves to extinction. Like some Ray Bradbury scifi novel of the 1950's where a space ship with measeles is refused landing permission because every off world colony has been disease free for 1000 years. We are destined to become a germ free feeble shadow of what nature intended us to be all because of the ceaseless advertising that everything is covered with germs and that they are somehow extremley bad for you. In some cases they are, but in the majority of them they aren't. Swine flu is a classic example. Just as people survived the plague, todays modern epidemics have the same culling effect. The weak die, the strongest survive. Harsh? Yes of course it is but nature isn't all cuddly koalas.

All us over 50's grew up in an era where we drank untreated rain water on a daily basis, we had stinking grease traps and a dunny out the back that wasn't a flush job and night soil carter was a job not a swear word.

If the kid down the street had chicken pox the entire street went down to play with him so we got it too. Childhood diseases like mumps, mealsels, chicken pox, glandular fever etc where all looked on as not something to be scared of but necessary for people to be exposed to so as to build up a resistance to them and as a right of passage. Yes children died of these diseases but the strongest survived. (I survived 4 bouts of malaria as a 14 to 15 year old and have had Ross River Fever as well in my late 40's so i do actually have experience in catchinglife threatening diseases).

Someone in a street comes down with chicken pox these days and it's almost like it was an epidemic of the plague or something. From my childhood friends I can remember 1 had asthma but he 'grew out of it' when he started smoking when we joined the Army. Never did we see anyone with such a thing as a peanut allergy for example, nor ADHD either for that matter, nor nits.

We also didn't have crystal healing, psyhic massages (whatever the hell they are) never used "Ancient Wisdom" because it hadn't been invented yet, accupuncture, healing stones, chiropractors (where treated with suspicion and regularly jailed for fraud) not a legitimate? (as far as I'm concerned they should still be being jailed for fraud) member of the medical fraternity - the only scientifically and I use the term loosley, produced oils we used where either euycalyptus or gonna oil, not some crap dreamed up by yet another homeopath (a con artist who also used to be jailed for fraud on a regular basis) who has a special product to sell us at a one off reduce sale price and don't you know it's organic so it must be safe and so it goes on.

Organic used to mean something, it now doesn't now. Just as a homeopathic cures are basically nothing but high priced sugary placebos the word Organic is about as usefull when making a decision to buy fruit and vegetables as the words Sale and Bargin are to make a purchasing decision. They are a lure, nothing more, and just like a barramundi chasing a lure you are being conned by a bright shiny flash that says "I'm good to eat because I'm better than everything else".

It is a just word hijacked by advertising to attribute a meaning to something that shouldn't have one placed on it. You can attempt to make it legitimate by placing it under a government standard but in the end it is just hype.

You're in superb form SBT and being 73 years old, I admire your sentiments!

The draconian regulations all happen in occupational health and safety too. For example, you can't even use peanuts in a charity cooking event without advertising safety warnings. Heavens, in the 1950s people ate peanut butter like crazy without all this business about peanut allergies.
And we are all being told it's to do with 'promoting a just and caring society'.

It's all to do with keeping politicians and lawyers in a job. People don't really 'care' for each other at all. It's all 'gimme, gimme'.

It wouldn't be any different even if the peanuts were organic.

Tut Tut Keith,I think you will find we ate peanut paste in the 50,s

Nope! "Peanut Butter" here in Vic and maybe South Oz in the 1950's.
"Peanut Paste" was eaten elsewhere in Oz and they had different labels on the same jars in the different states to prove it.
Now that was real "catering to the customer's tastes".

Queenslanders also had "ports" when we had "suitcases"

And Queenslanders had "bikinis", the source of much envy!
And as far as we knew, West Aussies had Perth and the wild Kalgoorlie mining boys or was that the girls!
And Pearl luggers at Broome

I still eat Peanut Paste. I refuse to be Americanised.

Qlders had togs. Southerners had bathers.

Always been 'Peanut Butter' in SA and VIC. It's not an american term.
Actually a little bit of research points out that QLD invented the term 'peanut paste' because dairy farmers did not want peanut butter competing with butter for market share lol...

No, it was peanut butter...at least the brand we had (I've never heard of it being called a 'paste', unlike fish paste). And it was (and is) yummy on hot toast with melting margerine.

Anyone remember Peck's Paste? 'A little bit goes a long way'?

As a side commentary, most people had 'undies'. Queen Victoria had 'bloomers'..which have sold recently for $14000.

Keith, I still enjoy a little bit of Peck's paste on hot, buttered, white toast when I go to Mum's. I refuse to even think about what it might contain ?!?!

Anyone remember Peck's Paste? 'A little bit goes a long way'?

I remember that, I think it was fish butter tho.

I never knew the Vics and Crow eaters were turncoats on the peanut paste issue.

Next year when its introduced to Tasmania we will see what they call it.

At risk of continuing to be off-topic in this thread.... I think QLD & WA are the turn-coats if they are the only people in the world that changed from butter to call it paste lol....

As for Pecks Paste, still widely available in SA..... in a few different varieties....

there are a few different thing (soft drink for Example) that have different names in each state One is Called kirks in Qld, Shelly's in NSW and Marchants in Vic (i don't know what they are called in the other states but they are exactly the same products.
I have noticed however when we go shopping that there are a lot more products popping up that are labled as organic including a lot of "homebrand" items.

"Home brands" are being pushed by the big supermarkets as the profits are higher but there may be quite a few nasty stings in the tail for the super markets with increasing amounts of their own "Home brand" products.
"The Australian" had an article the other day on the increase in Home branded products.

My personal experience with Home brands is that some products are quite OK. Some are mediocre at best and some are just plain lousy and barely edible.
I personally are swinging back to buying name branded products as against buying the cheaper Home brand products even though we are on a pension.

The big question surrounding home brands is that most of the products are sourced from the cheapest supplier, generally overseas, so a disruption to the supply chain or a global shortage of a product and the supply of cheap product dries up in favour of the home market of the supplier or better paying markets elsewhere.
And in failing to support local brand names the supermarkets will have destroyed local suppliers and supply chains by refusing to buy from them at a fair and profitable price and the super markets and as the overseas sources of product dry up, their customers will consequently be left sitting without any of that product on their shelves.

The other big danger for the supermarkets is their greed and the likely hood that more and more products will be placed under the Home brand banner.
Super markets would need less shelf space in this case but customer choice then becomes restricted.
As most of the home brand products are sourced from sometimes doubtful hygiene production, ie China and most SE Asian countries suppliers are of variable quality and hygiene standards and surreptitiously grow a lot of vegies in human sewerage waste that has very doubtful treatment processes but with very high yields of vegies and etc.

It is inevitable that at some time, a major health / food hygiene/ food contamination outbreak will occur in out sourced "home brand" products. And the Supermarket chain concerned is not then in a position to just take a brand named product off the shelves and continue with a variety of other branded named products with no specific blame attached to the supermarket chain but will be hung out to dry with it's own brand on a contaminated product and all that entails in the customer's eyes.
And the replacement products won't be easy to find as the local producers and supply chains are no longer in existence in a volume that would satisfy the supermarket's demands and any supply of replacement product from overseas will be subsequently viewed with great suspicion by the customers.

It's a super market profit making decision but i really wonder if those same executives who are pushing the Home branded products for the increased profits have thought through the long term consequences for the company if a major food contamination problem for some reason affects the super market owned Home branded products.

Then again as I have come across this in big business before, why should those executives worry about such a thing as cynically, they know they will be long gone by the time a major Home brand food contamination problem creates a serious credibility issue for a supermarket chain.
Not their problem will be their reply.
And if some customers get seriously ill from imported home branded products, well bad luck mate!
And for the supermarket chain concerned, very bad luck but you wanted the profits so accept the consequences of your greed.

"It is inevitable that at some time, a major health / food hygiene/ food contamination outbreak will occur in out sourced "home brand" products"

I could not agree with you more ROM.

I have had some experience with certification coming from some of our neighbour countries and while its cheaper to buy a forged certificate or bribe an official there will be no safety in food from there

Home Brand or Generic Brand Products Russian Roulette.

I am a member of Saltskippers. A health group who's members suffer from a range of medical conditions that can be made more manageable by limiting the amount of sodium consumed each day. The limit is 120mg over 100g of product and this is used to treat around 25 differnt conditions ranging from Meniere's disorder to PMS/PMT, diabetes hypertension, kidney diseases etc.

Anyway - in 2002 I did some research into generic branding after a member posted some information about a low sodium version of home brand tuna that he had found. He had found a Coles branded Tuna that was in a 440g tin and the NIP (Nutritonal Information Panel) showed it as being 128/100 so slightly over the limit but by combining it with naturally lower sodium items can make an acceptable meal. So I trundled out and bought said can only to find that this can's NIP said 475/100. So after scanning the lable on my can and comparing it to his we discovered something interesting. The lables apart from 2 minor things where identical. Country of origin for my can was the Phillipines, his was from Chile. Both lables used the same ink colouring, design layout, same bar code except his can had a diffent lot number embossed in the lid to mine.

Coels/Woolies/Aldi whoever supplies the lables for the cans, the lables are printed in Australia BEFORE the product is canned so they have no freakin idea what the actual nutrional information panel is so they just use a sort of average to round it out. (and this is quite legal people) Now we have a Food Standards mob in Australia called FSANZ (Food Standards Australia New Zealand) who are supoposed to ensure that all food imported conforms to their guidelines but get this, they don't test unless someone detects a problem. (out of date Olive Oil imported into australai, refiltered with a masking agent added - product was found to be dodgy importer ordered to remove from stock and destroy but couldn't because their shipping records could find out where they had shipped it to - just one of 1000's of examples of how useless FSANZre in the real world). Even then they can only enforce a lable change if there is a second importation of the same product.

So say we get a batch of fish from XYZ country which is 300% higher in sodium than what the NIP says. The batch is tested by whoever imported it when it arrives but the test sample shows a higher than expected sodium content but what the hell it's just salt right? It would cost 200% more than what it is actually worth to have the lables changed so what do they do? Nothing. So onto the supermarket shelves it goes and we consume it thinking that it is safe to eat. It isn't thereby triggering a heart attack, kidney shut down, vertigo so bad it requies a fortnight or longer stay in hospital, etc.

OK so no big deal you may think for 99.9% of the rest of the population who doesn't follow this diet but it could effect you in other ways. I then started tracking where the consignments where being placed (I had contacts in Woolies at the time) so I used a couple of their tuna products. The same consignment could be only sent to one state and then not to every store in that state. In places like the NSW /Vic border or Qld/NSW border they can source from 2 different warehousing areas. Tracking a consignment these days is a bit easier but still there could be the potential for a problem. Say in a recall.

In a nutshell the problems are:
1) Generic Branded products may or may not actually contain what they are supposed to.
2) They may be distributed across every store in australia or only to a select few.
3) 9 diffrent countries may have been used for one product like tuna which is currently on the shelves of every supermarket in Australia but has almost identical lables.
4) The difference in NIP may seem trivial for most people but for us it is vital that we can rely on the producers/canners to get it right.
5) The product you bought today will never be the same you buy in a month. Sure it will say Home Brand Baked Beans but where did they come from this week?
6) There is NO food security involved with generic brands. It could be sourced from genetically modified sources which some people think is a bad thing and others don't give a flying tinkers cuss about.
7) The move to 'Organic Home Brands" brings everything I have said above into sharp focus. This weeks "organic beans" may have been fertilzed with human poo in china, while last week they came from some dodgy plantation in the Phillipines with cyanide contaminated land and next week they could be the left overs from a production run here in Australia. How would you as a consumer know which was the one from Australia?
8) Not every generic branded product is as bad as this but could you tell which ones are safest?
9) Unless you have been trained on what to look for most people wouldn't have the slightest clue what I just revealed. They see baked Beans and think it is the same product everyweek and herein lies the deceptuion of the supermarkets. It may taste a bit different but what the hell it's cheap right????

So Generic Brand Russian Roulette anyone?

I will never, ever again buy a generically branded food product. If that means paying more for my food then so be it.

I am not a rabid Organic Foods advocate - quite the opposite but I do like to be able to tell at a glance where my foods come from and not rely on some shonky supermarket chain, who's only responsibility is to their stockholders, to provide me with a suitable food product.

You've just left me about speechless SBT, and that's no mean act!
Sincere Thanks!