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#867953 - 11/06/2010 09:23 Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble
split_city Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 02/11/2008
Posts: 1034
Loc: Port Noarlunga, South Australi...
Quote:
Search under way for missing teen sailor

Conditions are poor and "quite dangerous" where a US teen is believed to have hit trouble during her Jessica Watson-style sailing bid around the world.

But Australian authorities involved in the search mission say hopes are high 16-year-old Abby Sunderland will be found safe and well.

Abby was past the halfway mark of her solo sailing trip on Thursday and sailing just off Australia's west coast when she hit trouble, activating two manual distress beacons


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/1067914/rescue-under-way-for-missing-teen-sailor

Quote:
Before she set off, there were questions among some in the sailing world over whether she was too young to make the journey on her own. The timing was also criticised because she was crossing the Indian Ocean during the stormy southern hemisphere winter.

TJ Simers, a sports columnist for the Los Angeles Times, called the attempt "child endangerment".

"I just don't understand the idea of risking life. This kid's going to be out there all by herself. Death is a possibility. Bad weather. Are you kidding me? Who's responsible for this? She's a kid," he wrote.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/10/abby-sunderland-sailor-yachtswoman-teen-sea-search

Here we go. Is this really what we want teenagers to start doing? How young is too young? We have 13 year olds climbing Mt. Everest and now another 16 year old attempting to sail solo around the world but is in trouble. When will it stop? How young are these kids going to be when trying to set a new record?

Oh, but it's just Tall Poppy Syndrome again *rolls eyes*

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#867965 - 11/06/2010 10:33 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: split_city]
lightning chaser Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 18/06/2007
Posts: 548
Loc: nowra NSW
is there any requirement for sailors travelling around the world to have some sort of travel insurance to pay for any possible search and rescue mission? The way i see it it's quite a different situation to your average weekend fisherman who can be rescued in most cases by the volunteer coastal patrol. diverting naval ships / aircraft to search the area ala tony bullimore costs a hell of a lot of $ and if it becomes a regular thing i'm sure we will all get sick of our taxes funding it ( there are a lot of other things i'm sick of funding but thats for another day ). Having said all this i do feel differently about professional fisherman after tuna etc a long way offshore, at least they are doing something productive.

in the article it mentions she was 2000km off morrocco, this kind of distance would be prohibitive to search and rescue aircraft flying over the area, and given that the nearest ship is 2 days away frankly if her boat has sunk well i don't like her odds.
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#867968 - 11/06/2010 11:13 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: lightning chaser]
dave7 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/04/2004
Posts: 1169
Loc: South Heathcote,Central Vic
parents got more $ than sense...most 16 year old parents couldnt afford to let their kids do 'dumb' things like this & most would be to responsable to allow it anyway....navy ships chew up $ anyway,no matter what they get up too...lota diesel...just gives them somthing productive to do instead of sailing around sight seeing...(greaty training exercise to be out in rough seas) or protecting us against the dangerous boat people....not saving tax $ at all....either way...military paid to sit around most of the time...typical Gov. Dept....agree Insurance should be compulsory for these hair brained adventures.

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#867981 - 11/06/2010 14:24 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: dave7]
AaronD Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 1017
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
that's a good point dave. It is a similar situation with rescue helicopters and similar things. if they arnt being used for operation they are being used for training to keep hours up and currency etc.
if they dont use the helicopters they have to try and justify why the government is paying so much money on a piece of equipment that isn't being used.

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#867990 - 11/06/2010 16:52 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: AaronD]
Dale Small Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/11/2001
Posts: 4824
Loc: Greymouth - West Coast, NZ..
Apparently a Qantas airbus has located her but only has 2 hours of fuel remaining before having to bail.. from ABC reports she is alive but it will be at least another day or so before any vessel is within reach of her.. now, whos going to pay for that Airbus to go up there and look for her?

The second question.. what the hell is she doing in the southern ocean during the winter season?!

Correction.. Indian, approaching the southern.


Edited by Dale Small (11/06/2010 16:55)

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#867996 - 11/06/2010 17:58 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: Dale Small]
split_city Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 02/11/2008
Posts: 1034
Loc: Port Noarlunga, South Australi...
Who cares how much it costs? She's a "hero" and an "inspiration" to others her age. Isn't this worth more than any bill the taxpayers have to pick up? wink

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#867998 - 11/06/2010 18:25 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: split_city]
Dale Small Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/11/2001
Posts: 4824
Loc: Greymouth - West Coast, NZ..
Not much of a hero when dual epirbs go off in the middle of nowhere, a chartered aircraft has to find you, your vessel is inequipped & not worthy of sailing those latitudes & all you did was try and beat your friend who left a couple of months earlier.. now have to battle another 40 or so hours until emergency vessels come save you.. its time this garbage stopped, its always up to the aussies to fork out for these adventurous mistakes.

Sorry, im angry. Good on Jess for making it but this silly so and so just had no idea. Her brother might have made it but he did it in the right time of the year.

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#867999 - 11/06/2010 18:45 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: Dale Small]
dave7 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/04/2004
Posts: 1169
Loc: South Heathcote,Central Vic
'if' she survives she'll still make good $ outa the story...hope they make media $ go to pay for any costs...hero?...dumb & or media seeker...dunno what airbus was gunna do...prob. lift her spirits if nothing else...hangin on for your life wont be fun...

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#868156 - 13/06/2010 09:20 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: split_city]
ozthunder Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 3346
Loc: Mt Warrigal, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: split_city
Who cares how much it costs? She's a "hero" and an "inspiration" to others her age. Isn't this worth more than any bill the taxpayers have to pick up? wink


Hands up any 14 year olds who want to sail around the world.

What about a 13 year old crossing the Simpson desert unassisted.

How about a reality TV show were 15 year olds have to journey into Dafur or Iraq.

What about some 14-15 year old's who want to take part in a big brother house.


What I am getting at is the line has the drawn somewhere and we treading awfully close to unacceptable risk and exploitation of teenagers.
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#868166 - 13/06/2010 10:14 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: ozthunder]
Simmah Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 03/07/2001
Posts: 2548
Loc: Wollongong - NSW
Teenagers are getting "older" these days.. its really quite bad.. Young people exposed to adult situations, whether by there own choice or otherwise, and its not just "achievements" such as these... Lived in wagga and was SHOCKED at seeing girls and boys as young as 14 drinking and partying (and being sexually active) on the weekends and during the holidays etc.. But then again, there is very little facilities and activities for young people to do in that town.. Living in Wollongong there is quite a similar situation happening really... lower socioeconomic areas seemingly increase the potential for young people being exposed to adult situations.

And walk around the local malls and you see young people, girls mainly, dressed in clothing that is (i feel) high suggestive and very inappropriate...

AND seeing my 12 and 13 year old (girl) Cousins "in love" with boys and having boyfriends and will "love forever" is highly amusing but again, inappropriate
..
When i was 15 this sort of thing wasn't going on... I didn't know what love was, let alone in love... the girls weren't in suggestive clothing and we weren't out boozing up every weekend.... all that sort of thing started happening at maybe 17, but 18 onwards really.... it was a pretty clear line when you'd look at 15 compared to 18... you could tell the age etc... these days the line is really quite blurred...

I'm not about to point fingers as i believe its a combination of things that are at the root of this sort of problem and im not sure what we can do to reverse it... but as Ozthunder suggests above continual exposure to adult situations isn't the answer... the line needs to re drawn and re drawn fast...


Apologies for the off topic rant... now on topic

NO, Australian tax payers should NOT be footing the bill for her rescue... ultimately it should be her family/management etc and if that fails, her countries govt... not Australia...


Edited by Simmah (13/06/2010 10:18)

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#868167 - 13/06/2010 10:18 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: ozthunder]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
If she was not up to this task (and heading out in those southern seas in winter does seem a rather odd thing to do) then questions should be asked.

However, as to costs and what should be provided, I'm reminded that the costs of keeping weak, undersized new born babies alive in hospitals runs into hudreds of thousands of dollars. there's a lot of that going on. Yet I rarely if ever see anyone questioning the costs of that.

Many of those multiple births (caused increasingly by use of fertility drugs) result in weak little babies that would die if not for intensive, expensive medical intervention. Why is that not questioned?

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#868182 - 13/06/2010 12:11 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: ant]
Flooding rains Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 15/04/2009
Posts: 2787
Loc: Townsville
Really dont know how to respond to the above. Can't for the life of me figure out how new born babies enter the spectrum........
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YTD- 1316mm.
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#868331 - 14/06/2010 15:10 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: Flooding rains]
Beltane Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 15/10/2001
Posts: 463
Loc: Warriewood 2102 NSW
These so called "adventurers" and their greedy parents have an ego problem, with financial gain (if they succeed) well in their sights. Any such voyages should NOT be allowed to start WITHOUT the parents posting a SURETY [One Million Dollars] to cover the rescue costs anywhere in the world (refundable if no rescue required)!!!

Taxpayers should NOT be left holding the "can" for the stupidity and greed of the participants and their parents!
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#868356 - 14/06/2010 18:08 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: ant]
Jason P Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 07/10/2008
Posts: 472
Loc: Lismore, Northern Rivers
Originally Posted By: ant

However, as to costs and what should be provided, I'm reminded that the costs of keeping weak, undersized new born babies alive in hospitals runs into hudreds of thousands of dollars. there's a lot of that going on. Yet I rarely if ever see anyone questioning the costs of that.


I agree with FR....your comment has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is in poor taste IMO. Alot of those using fertility drugs to get pregnant are using them as a last ditch measure to try and get pregnant. The joy of birth is an awe inspiring thing whether born undersized or fully grown.

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#868398 - 14/06/2010 23:42 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: Jason P]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
Costs of rescuing a person in a boat, vs costs of keeping newborns who would otherwise die. It's very valid. How do you weigh the costs of one vs the costs of the other? In the case that costs are not paid, someone dies.

As for it being "in poor taste", that's a great way of trying to stifle an argument, but I'll ask again, why are the huge costs of keeping sickly babies alive OK, but rescuing a person in a boat not OK? Why are the costs of the rescue questioned, but the costs of keeping un-viable babies alive not questioned? Both costs are to the taxpayer.

The costs are similar, although I think that in the end, the babies' costs are greater.

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#868415 - 15/06/2010 08:21 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: ant]
Flooding rains Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 15/04/2009
Posts: 2787
Loc: Townsville
'un-viable', 'sickly', these days most of these babies survive. Whether being born due to IVF or natural circumstances, the parents have every right to try and have children and to try and keep them alive. The baby certainly isn't going out into the middle of the Indian Ocean in winter and trying to beat a record only set a month or so previous with poor planning and execution. This 16 year lead a perfectly healthy life and chose to go do an incredibly risky thing, a baby hasn't even had the opportunity yet.

And yes it is in poor taste, no way should trying to save or keep a baby alive be questioned. As I say there is an increasing amount of survival and 'miracle' stories these days. And yes I am far happier sending my taxes to a hospital then out into the Indian Ocean for trying to save a stupid sailing exercise. Of course we can't leave her out there though so there should also be no question about rescuing, the question should be based around if it should happen in the first place. Anyway if there is any path this thread should take, it isn't this one.
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YTD- 1316mm.
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#868417 - 15/06/2010 08:24 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: ant]
Shultzy Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 24/01/2008
Posts: 845
Loc: Beresfield - near Maitland, NS...
ant, I have to agree with the abovce comments. This is a very touchy subject o bring in to a seemingly unrelated discussion. Although I can kind of see the links, the risk of this discussion becoming offensive is too high.

I think that if there is going to be a 1million dollar surety over climbing Everest, or sailing around the world, then there needs to be a 1million dollar surety on everything we do every day! What happens if a roll off the lounge, break my neck, and the hospital spends a million bucks trying to fix me up? Sure, therre is more risk climbing Everest say, but isn't that what insurance premiums are for?
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#868422 - 15/06/2010 09:04 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: Shultzy]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
Not sure I would have used the babies as an argument Ant! smile However, when the drunks and the people who like to experience with backyard chemistry (ie. illegal drugs) start paying their own way in the health system then I will be more than happy to agree with an argument that people who persue risky endeavours like sailing solo around the world should be made to foot the bill for their own rescue. Until then, I am more than happy for my tax payer dollars to go towards chartering an airbus to save a young person that has actually set out to do something that will help them grow as an individual. This could have just as easily happened to Jessica Watson, one rogue wave can change the aim of the game in one moment.

Society has progressed to where we are at through the risky endeavours of others and it is this great pioneering spirit that helps to further humanity. ODing losers are a drag on our society and the systems that were put there to help people in times of genuine need.

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#868438 - 15/06/2010 10:42 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: Simmah]
AaronD Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 1017
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Originally Posted By: Simmah
Teenagers are getting "older" these days..
......
When i was 15 this sort of thing wasn't going on...


Totally Agree Simmah, i dont know how old you are but im only 25 and i look back to 8 or 10 years ago and the way even the very rebellious kids were back then i dont think seem to be as bad as the 13 year olds now.

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#868449 - 15/06/2010 12:24 Re: Another teen sailing solo around the world: In trouble [Re: AaronD]
Shultzy Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 24/01/2008
Posts: 845
Loc: Beresfield - near Maitland, NS...
I'm not sure about teens becoming 'older', but for sure the publics expectations of them are much lower. I mean, even the way simmah and Aaron are talking is basically signing every teens fate. Even if you don't want it to happen, you expect it to happen. Adults expect teens to goof off, so wha do they do? Goof off.

Looking back before the trade unions forced teens out of the workforce, before the term 'teenager' was even around, there was no goofing off, only solid work, in tight communities. As soon as the trade unions enforced rules about working ages, the became a 'limbo' period where you were not a kid in primary learning, and you were not working either. This is where the word 'teenagers' was introduced, and all of a sudden expecations started to drop. Unless something radical changes, expectations will never ever rise, and things are going to get worse and worse...
_________________________
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I'd appreciate it if you could visit my new website dedicated to freelance photography / web design - www.jacobshultz.com.au - Thanks!

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