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#877575 - 18/08/2010 11:21 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Andy Double U]
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
Do we have a link to the statement by those experts? I could only find (a whole lot of) stuff about Dr Stiglitz, whose credentials especially lie in the area of 'market socialism'.

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#877576 - 18/08/2010 11:23 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Andy Double U]
Cheers Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 26/05/2007
Posts: 1117
Loc: sevenhills nsw
Killed because dodgy employers didn't do what employers should do.

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#877577 - 18/08/2010 11:28 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Oh yes - as for Stiglitz

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704204304574543503520372002.html

FFS! He's one of those who's "considered" opinion steered the world to the financial crisis we just had! I guess they hand out the Nobel to the likes of him and Krugman in the same way they handed out the Nobel peace prize these days - i.e. whatever's politically correct...
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#877578 - 18/08/2010 11:28 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ColdFront]
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10344
Loc: Blue Mountains
Originally Posted By: ColdFront


.. Excellent comment and a point I have been subtley rattling on about for the past few weeks. Indeed that applies to some here and I will NEVER understand that mindset...



I think its important to understand that mindset. I think it applies to us all in different ways. How many of us know that certain things are bad for our health and yet we just go along with them without really questioning them? Me!

Recognising the silliness and stupidity within myself without condeming myself about it helps me to be more accepting of the views of others.

Politically, I'm just as 'stupid' or 'misguided' as the person I disagree with. I have to see that clearly, then I will be able to listen more carefully to my opponents point of view. Otherwise my ego gets in the way and I will think that I am 'better' than them.

Its bloody hard to think clearly and without our egos getting in the way but it sure beats the alternative.
_________________________
BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#877579 - 18/08/2010 11:32 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Keith:

The letter is here: linky
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#877580 - 18/08/2010 11:33 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Keith]
Cheers Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 26/05/2007
Posts: 1117
Loc: sevenhills nsw
Originally Posted By: Keith
Do we have a link to the statement by those experts? I could only find (a whole lot of) stuff about Dr Stiglitz, whose credentials especially lie in the area of 'market socialism'.

Here we go again Keith,REDS UNDER THE BED!

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#877582 - 18/08/2010 11:37 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Blizzard]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
It's important to always remember that economics is not a science. Even economists will admit that. It doesn't follow rules like those of nature. It's based on human behaviour in as such, ranks along with sociology, psychology and other fields of human behaviour. This is why it is so hard for them to predict what will happen. They have theories and models, but when it all goes awry, they can only account for it after the fact, by looking at what happened.

What I do know is, in Feb last year everything here was great, the american financial crisis was in full swing and we were watching from the sidelines. I went to the US for a month's skiing and saw what looked like the start of a Depression, people lining up for things, everyone knew (or was) a person who'd lost their job, and the house of cards effect was going full bore.

I came back in march to find it starting here, my job was gone, the whole atmosphere had changed.

And somehow, Labor's spending short-circuited what was happening, it stopped (or paused).

The idea came from the US, a while back Mr Bush sent cheques out to all taxpayers. I got one! Pumping money into the economy, it's actually quite tricky. Labor did the US thing of giving people money who'd spend it, plus setting up the insulation scheme and school building scheme. The idea of those was to do soemthing useful (insulation and school buildings) but also, to quickly pump money into the economy.

Well, it worked. Anyone who has been to the US and seen the GFC effects will find it a very sobering experience. And I still wonder if what we're seeing is the start of the end for the american pyramid scheme economy.

Peopel can speculate, but we'll only know after the fact.

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#877583 - 18/08/2010 11:42 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Cheers]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Cheers:

When an economist says: "I don’t have an awful lot of confidence in market prices" - it's time to call the men in white suits as he has certainly lost his marbles... Either that, or admit that he's a socialist. I direct you to the WSJ article I linked above...
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#877584 - 18/08/2010 11:43 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Cheers]
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
Originally Posted By: Cheers
Originally Posted By: Keith
Do we have a link to the statement by those experts? I could only find (a whole lot of) stuff about Dr Stiglitz, whose credentials especially lie in the area of 'market socialism'.

Here we go again Keith,REDS UNDER THE BED!

Wilson Tuckey at your service. LOL

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#877588 - 18/08/2010 12:12 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Keith]
Rime Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/06/2001
Posts: 1444
Loc: Perth,WA
I can't believe the hypocrisy I have read in the last few pages. It is ironic. Andy and Arnost come out with very strong arguments and no one bothers to counter the argument other then make accusation of being biased and stuck on a mindset when they themselves are stuck on a mindset. It is pretty obvious that Coldie is stuck in his ways as much as Andy and Arnost.

Fair enough to stick to your own convictions. I admire that even though I may disagree at times with that conviction, but you must have some other point of argument against what is being said and a reason why you disagree with it.

We are always stuck in some form of mindset one way or another, but that mindset can change with time given a good argument or personal circumstances. I think it is pretty obvious by now that I am conservative and most elections I will either vote for a Coalition candidate or an independent candidate who is conservative leaning, but I haven't always been like this. Truth be told, I once was a supporter of the ALP and to a smaller extent, the Greens. My mindset had changed as I got older. I now will never vote for either of these two parties in a month of Sundays.

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#877589 - 18/08/2010 12:22 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Keith]
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
Thanks for the insight into the States Ant. You hear comments like: "Worst recession since the Depression" but for us here in Australia who fared pretty well, it isn't until you hear an on the ground account of what things were/are like that you can truly appreciate the potential that we seem to have so far averted.

Andy, my comment re debt was more aimed at the rather pathetic 'lowest-denominator' approach of the Liberals and their campaigns - I suppose I should really have expected anything more from them, but still its disappointing. My comment was aimed more at the lack of context surrounding the whole debt issue; something that you have provided clarification on.

Now with Mod hat on:
Can I also thank you all for continuing what has been a pretty good, mature debate. Here we are at 15 pages and so far we've had virtually no problems. Keep it up.
_________________________
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#877590 - 18/08/2010 12:25 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ant]
Rime Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/06/2001
Posts: 1444
Loc: Perth,WA
Originally Posted By: ant

The idea came from the US, a while back Mr Bush sent cheques out to all taxpayers. I got one! Pumping money into the economy, it's actually quite tricky. Labor did the US thing of giving people money who'd spend it, plus setting up the insulation scheme and school building scheme. The idea of those was to do soemthing useful (insulation and school buildings) but also, to quickly pump money into the economy.


This was the problem though. The US already was in high debt and their interest rates were already relatively low. There was nothing in the US to create a stimulus other than the government pumping cash into the economy.

Australia was a completely different ball game. The government had no debt, our budget was in high surplus and our interest rates were high enough to create a stimulus. Added on this, China's growth was still strong enough to keep our resource boom from dwindling. There were not many developed economies in the world that had this to boast about when the GFC hit.

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#877592 - 18/08/2010 12:33 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: bigwilly]
AaronD Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 1017
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
i dont understand this whole recession that that went on.. from my point of view, in the last 2 years I have finished uni and scored a decent job while managing to have money to spend and save (both like crazy) and take out a loan and pay it back.. my family has extended their home loan to get $100,000 of extensions to the house and we have not struggled.
were not well off neither are we below the poverty line but i mean if i ddint watch tv or read the papers i would have thought nothing wrong.. so someone has obviously done something right.

is it the big corporations that are the ones affected? the people on multi-million dollar wages who are greedy and invested all their money all over the place to make more of it??

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#877595 - 18/08/2010 13:02 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: AaronD]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
What Rime said... I can not stress the importance of the ablility to reduce interest rates had. Consider, the rates dropped from 7.25% to 3.0% in a couple of months. It is a benchmark that is commonly used where for an average home loan ($250K) each 0.25% drop means a saving of $40 or so. A drop of 4.25% (and yes it was not all passed on) would mean some $700 to each house hold budget each and every month. The reate drop would have a similar impact on businesses.

This outstrips the "Government Stimulus" by an order of magnitude - FACT. And it's effect was immediate from the time the rates began to drop in October 2008. FACT. Labors cash handouts had some influence - but lets face it, were more of a political stimulus thaneconomic. FACT. The Pink Batts and BER did not kick in till after the crisis was over. FACT.
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#877624 - 18/08/2010 15:26 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Rime]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Originally Posted By: Rime
It is ironic. Andy and Arnost come out with very strong arguments and no one bothers to counter the argument other then make accusation of being biased and stuck on a mindset when they themselves are stuck on a mindset. It is pretty obvious that Coldie is stuck in his ways as much as Andy and Arnost.



Then you haven't been reading my posts have you. I have NEVER been aligned to one party. Arnost and Andy are intelligent enough to defend / answer for themselves and can you show the deceny to address me by my correct forum name?


I too have put numerous comments up that have been valid and dodged by those that don't agree or found them difficult to counter. That is their choice and I respect their choice. I took the time to answer Arnost's post when he requested it so don't try to drag into some issue you have with other posters.

As you obviously missed it I will say it again. I have voted for both parties twice in the past 4 terms. Hardly biased.
_________________________


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#877627 - 18/08/2010 15:40 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ColdFront]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
laughlaughlaugh Some people have waaaay too much spare time.


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#877641 - 18/08/2010 16:34 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Andy Double U]
Shayne Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 26/01/2006
Posts: 5816
Loc: Cedar Grove SEQ
hmm...i cant wait for the election to be over..lmao
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I like STUFF!

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#877650 - 18/08/2010 17:09 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Shayne]
Vinnie Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 17/05/2006
Posts: 6821
Loc: Mulambin , Yeppoon Central Qld
I find it hard to believe that Labor or Liberal will bring the budget to surplus by 2012/13.....
_________________________

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#877657 - 18/08/2010 17:39 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ColdFront]
Rime Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/06/2001
Posts: 1444
Loc: Perth,WA
Originally Posted By: ColdFront
As you obviously missed it I will say it again. I have voted for both parties twice in the past 4 terms. Hardly biased.


I did not miss it. I have also voted for other parties in the past. My point being is that we are all sticking to our guns no matter what so no one can accuse the other side for being biased because we are all going to be guilty of that.

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#877660 - 18/08/2010 17:43 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Rime]
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
Did anyone see Kerry O'Brien's interview with Tony Abbott last night?

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