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#881764 - 06/09/2010 21:08 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ColdFront]
Farm Weather Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 10/11/2009
Posts: 845
Loc: West Mallee SA
Totally agree CF ask me yesterday would have said Labour for sure.

Regardless of which they end up supporting apparently its been stated that "no child shall go without a ten gallon hat".....
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#881768 - 06/09/2010 21:51 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Farm Weather]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
The only possible reason they would want to know is that when they form a minority government with the LNP, if Crook crossed the floor it would be back to 74 seats a side and they would lose any power they now hold.

I haven't felt they would support labor from the outset to be honest. This whole process has been about making sure they get what they want from Abbott wthout the need for a fresh election and they then run the risk of being forced back to independence as stand alone members with no clout. Kind of ironic considering that is how they were elected.

The country will now be run by independents regardless of who forms government. They made sure of that when the reforms were signed off today. People are crying out for a fresh election but the question remains. Who would change the way they voted? So a minority government it is. it will be an interesting 12 months ahead that's for sure.
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#881770 - 06/09/2010 21:53 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ColdFront]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
Have a watch of Q and A on the ABC now. Katter (giving audience idiots a good serve!), Milne, Minchin, Beattie, it's not bad.

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#881773 - 06/09/2010 22:20 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ant]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Quote:
This whole process has been about making sure they get what they want from Abbott wthout the need for a fresh election and they then run the risk of being forced back to independence as stand alone members with no clout.


I would have agreed until the weekend when Oakshott insisted that the Speaker's role be independent and be paired - now aside from costitutional issues, this would indicate that he wants the speakers role and wants to retain the casting vote. This suggests that he wants to support Labor as it is likely that certainly Katter, and maybe Windsor are leaning Liberal.
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#881774 - 06/09/2010 22:28 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
I'm watching Q&A - and you know as mad as Bob K is he does make some interesting points - and maybe not as illiterate as he's happy to throw around DeToqueville and Mill ... He's playing a character me thinks.
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#881785 - 06/09/2010 23:19 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
Katter did well. He is well read and intelligent, even people who don't like him admit that. And it's about time someone did something about the economic rationalist view that has our bloody efficient farmers being run to the breadline while we ship in food grown in very dodgey ways and under very dodgey circumstances. Nice to hear this stuff getting a national airing, finally.

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#881786 - 06/09/2010 23:28 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ant]
!SCHUMMY! Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 22/04/2008
Posts: 2915
Loc: Jimboomba, SEQ
how long does it really take for those independents to decide, i think we're fine without a proper PM!! haha fingers crossed tomorrow

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#881789 - 06/09/2010 23:45 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Quote:
40. Questions arising in the House of Representatives shall be determined by a majority of votes other than that of the Speaker. The Speaker shall not vote unless the numbers are equal, and then he shall have a casting vote.


This is what I meant that pairing may be unconstitutional. The above is section 40 from the Constitution. The interpretation so far has been that the speaker would not have a vote, unless the vote was tied on the floor in which case s/he would have a casting or deciding vote.

By "pairing" the speaker, this will mean that the opposition or at least the opposed vote will be lost. So if hypothetically the count is 75 all, then if Oakeshott is speaker and consequently he does not vote, then in the past the opposition position will be carried 74 - 75. Under the new arrangement given the speaker is paired this means that the vote will be 74 - 74 and Oakeshott as speaker will have a casting vote. This is as far as I'm concerned completely against the spirit of section 40.

The fact that the coallition agreed and caved is disgusting. They may have been screwed over royally - by that snake Windsor in demanding and releasing Treasury coatings, by Wilkies billion dollar sting and now this Oakeshott stunt. Oh. At next ellection the speaker is uncontested - good luck Rob... Can't see you around after the next election.


Edited by bigwilly (07/09/2010 07:56)
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#881794 - 07/09/2010 00:27 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
lookin Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 19/01/2008
Posts: 292
Loc: tweed heads
This whole independent power play has become to scary now.Example , have been in enterprise bargaining discussions at work for 6 weeks last Fri the club i work at pulled out of negotiations and have said in clear terms that there will be redundancies and a complete restructure of the business .Why? Wilkies gaming reforms and the all to rushed signing of the document by Miss Gillard.Whilst I dont want to bring up aloton gaming regulations some 100000 people are employed across Aust in the club / pub industry most of these WILL go as a result of his request. Funny enough casinos and internet gaming are not included in this . The document I saw today also says that if the states do not tow the line god help them in the 2012 budget as the same will happen as in the health reforms .ie do it or you will suffer.If this is what the major parties are doing with these so called independents god help us. I never thought id say it but our hope for job security now is with the Lib / Nats as they havent signed up this idiot from Tasmania

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#881798 - 07/09/2010 01:06 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: lookin]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
If Labor gets up, you are just about guaranteed three years of this. With the Libs there is a good chance that they'll get a double disolution trigger once the Greens get balance of power in the senate.
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#881799 - 07/09/2010 01:33 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Hah! This is why you don't trust this Treasury:
Linky

Game on ... The Lib option to tell the independents to get effed is in play again! WooHoo!
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#881813 - 07/09/2010 08:07 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
It's quite amazing how quickly and decisively people move into 'attack mode' towards the independents, not just in here but in the media as well. I'm thinking it's in unusual and perhaps uncomfortable position that people find themselves in, and instead of going about discussions rationally and with a balanced view, they revert to a lower level and just attack, attack, attack. A similar mindset that has led to such things as Apartheid and slavery: I don't understand it so I'll attack it.

I mean take the comments in the media about how long it is taking; would you prefer they do a rushed job and not commit the time the responsibility of their position demands? Or perhaps you would prefer it if they just succumbed to the first bit of bait that was dropped in the pond?

As far as I'm concerned this has been a blurdy good wake-up call to tweedle dumb and tweedle dee; Australia is not happy with the two extremely poor (and quite similar) choices we have been presented with to form Government. IMO there should be more of it to keep the mongrels honest. And as a resident of regional Australia it's nice to finally see a bit of attention on the oh so important regions of Australia that feed you lot in the cities.

Mind you the city-centric elitism that has emerged from opinion pieces and letters to the editor have really high-lighted the city-country divide and just how expansive that divide has become. And this is a real shame because we have bureaucrats in the city making decisions that directly affected us out here and the way we live, the way we are/were able to grow food and provide infrastructure. Certainly I don't think we should be overstating our representation, but I'm happy as a pig in mud that the three 'king-makers' - as they've been coined - are regional and rural based independents.
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#881818 - 07/09/2010 08:21 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: bigwilly]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1559
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
and a big part of the Independents deals have been to be heard in parliament.
Question time etc has been tidied as the Speaker will have control and no interjections any more ....was crap.

Running of the house will change if nothing else does wink

Of course if Abbott gets up we'd all better head for hobart as it gunna get real busy down here heheheheeeeee
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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”

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#881822 - 07/09/2010 08:56 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnoldnut]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
Last night on Q and A, Katter used a brilliant analogy that pulled together a few of his themes. He said that having Labor and Liberal as the two only real forces in government was "the woolies and coles of a government". So well said.

And yes, our governments are way too city-centric. Sydney and Melbourne and to a lesser extent Brisbane are where the decisions are made, and teh attitudes of people in cities to country people is gob-smacking. There was an idiot on Whirlpool last night snarling about why should he pay more for food just because our farmers were not as efficient as the ones we're importing from. Where do you start with people like that?

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#881826 - 07/09/2010 09:13 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ant]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Originally Posted By: ant
Katter did well. He is well read and intelligent, even people who don't like him admit that. And it's about time someone did something about the economic rationalist view that has our bloody efficient farmers being run to the breadline while we ship in food grown in very dodgey ways and under very dodgey circumstances. Nice to hear this stuff getting a national airing, finally.


I don't know that he is what I'd call intelligent. I believe he is intelligent in certain areas and not so in others and this is in many ways a good thing. He sticks to his guns and is focusing on basic commonsense issues. I am not always supportive of the farmer's lobby but importing bananas is plain madness. So is the way they are getting screwed by the two big chains. Both the ALP and LNP are guilty there.

On other issues he isn't fit to have power but fortunately he won't be the only one with a say.


Originally Posted By: ant
There was an idiot on Whirlpool last night snarling about why should he pay more for food just because our farmers were not as efficient as the ones we're importing from. Where do you start with people like that?


They make good fertilizer. smile
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#881827 - 07/09/2010 09:23 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ColdFront]
Helen Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/11/2001
Posts: 9678
Loc: Mid North, SA
Originally Posted By: ColdFront

Originally Posted By: ant
There was an idiot on Whirlpool last night snarling about why should he pay more for food just because our farmers were not as efficient as the ones we're importing from. Where do you start with people like that?

They make good fertilizer. smile

Hehehe, I'll pay that. grin
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#881828 - 07/09/2010 09:41 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Helen]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Why I think the current Treasury is too politicized and why I think Windsor is a snake (amongst other reasons)

Linky


Edited by bigwilly (07/09/2010 12:22)
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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#881829 - 07/09/2010 10:08 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
If the information contained in that link is accurate, then treasury really needs to be put under the microscope. I mean, dismissing the mismanagement/overspending of the BER scheme as not being an important factor in calculating the conservative bias allowance... really? What planet are these bureauprats on?! Yet there will be people who still think that the sun's golden rays shine from the buttocks of those who have repeatedly screwed up... I just don't get it... confused

The clincher though is that three men are expected to sort their way through the mess of opinions, facts and figures and come up with a decision that is going to steer this country's course for the next three years. How can they be expected to do that? There is no way these guys can comprehend the sheer bulk of information required that goes into running this country let alone figure a course of action for the future. These guys should take a good hard look at which preferences got them to the point they are in this position in the first place and follow that. There is the Steve Fielding experiment that Andrew Wilke looks set to repeat though.

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#881832 - 07/09/2010 10:42 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Andy Double U]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
An opinion piece looking at now and into the future:

Link

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#881833 - 07/09/2010 10:46 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Andy Double U]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
Quote:
It's quite amazing how quickly and decisively people move into 'attack mode' towards the independents


Coz they are spolied pratts, mostly loonies who have slunk under the public radar as they have been, and frankly still are irrelevant.

I say this because they have had more than their fair share of govt investment into their electorates:



And if Oakeshott seems "light" just think about how many billions are currently being pumped through his electorate upgrading the Pacific Highway.

They are grandstanding at best and at worst disadvantaging all the other people of Australia by demanding really stupid, mostly retrogressive and usually very expensive conditions for their support on to p of the pork they have already scammed above and beyond. This is a tyrany of the minority that any politician should not abide - and it is a discredit to both leaders that they are prostituting themselves to this rabble. Like I said - I would tell them to get effed: "This is the policy I went to the election with and if you don't like it - support the other mob and face the consequences in your electorate next time."

The biggest lesson I am drumming into my kids: Never compromise your principles - for therein lies the road to perdition.




Edited by Arnost (07/09/2010 10:51)
Edit Reason: bits and bats
_________________________
“No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise” ...

And this of course applies to scientific principles. Never compromise these. Never! [Follow the science and you will be shown correct in the end...]

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