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#869404 - 25/06/2010 08:13 Australian Federal Election 2010
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
In light of Mr Pearce's post in the Lounge Guidelines thread this morning grin I thought I might get this one cracking!

Keep in mind his comments:
Originally Posted By: Matthew Pearce

However, please bear in mind that these threads will be subject to the same guidelines as all other threads in relation to trolling and personal attacks, so keep them out of it. In fact, we will adopt a no-tolerance approach in these threads, so any offensive behaviour of this kind will result in immediate bans.

So, feel free to start debating away again, but play nice!


So onto the upcoming election, yesterday's events will certainly spice things up a bit and have changed the dynamics of the electoral landscape.

To be honest, at this point I don't care what happens, just hold the blasted election so that people and businesses can start going about their lives with a bit of stability and direction. It seems nearly all people I talk to at the moment are terribly disillusioned with those at the top (and that being even more so than usual) and are really unsure what the current government stands for. I think this might have been part of the reason for the new PM making admitting that they'd lost their way in the last few months. It will be interesting to see what decisions they make in the next few weeks, I don't envy them at all.

As for Kevin Rudd, well I think it goes without saying that I wasn't his biggest fan but I could help but feel for him yesterday whilst listening to his speech. Obviously he was incredibly passionate about his role as PM and I've always thought that he really was doing what he thought was right by the party and his country. It was a shame to see him ousted in such an undignified way and to be honest, struck me as being a bit cruel. But hey, that's party politics for you and they are obviously doing what they can to maximise their chances of re-election.

Anyway, interesting few months ahead and no doubt plenty of interesting discussion and debate will be had between fellow WZoners. Just a quick thanks to the mods and the admin for reopening these kinds of discussions, hopefully you guys won't regret it... much! grin

Andy

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#869409 - 25/06/2010 08:36 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Andy Double U]
Dale Small Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/11/2001
Posts: 4824
Loc: Greymouth - West Coast, NZ..
Technically, she has until April 2011 to call it, so if I were her, would be hanging on as long as possible to do some damage control, if that can be achieved at all.

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#869426 - 25/06/2010 10:04 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Dale Small]
bigwilly Offline
Weatherzone Mod and Photog

Registered: 25/09/2002
Posts: 6543
Loc: Junee - just north of the 'Bid...
Yep, if I were her I'd be wanting a chance to prove myself before calling an election. Really all we've heard about her from the media over the last year or so has been about her failings.
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#869431 - 25/06/2010 10:41 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: bigwilly]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14286
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Yes they probably would have lost the next election with Kevin at the helm or if they had of won it would have been a very close run thing and resulted in a minority Parliment. Not to sure that still won't happen.
Turn back ETS, Climate Change, Super Mining Tax, 12 months paid maternity leave and 10 minutes after they get re elected it will all be back on the books again.

About the only thing they haven't tried is increasing the GST (The UK has just done this as a means of increasing government funding) and don't think Rudd et al haven't been talking about that as a means to make up the biggest hole in Australias budget ever. Could you live witha 5% increase in GST. I am a pension on a fixed income. There is no way in the world I could afford to live with an increase in GST and I wouldn't be alone.

An increase in GST has to be approved by all Australian States. Now why doesn't that fill me with a warm comfortable glow of confidence that it will never happen.
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#869434 - 25/06/2010 10:50 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: SBT]
Dale Small Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/11/2001
Posts: 4824
Loc: Greymouth - West Coast, NZ..
It will probably be next on the cards, it has just passed parliament over the ditch here.

Oh & I grew up, worked business and earnt my wages under the Hawke/Keating/Howard threesome so know a fair bit about Aussie politics, I bailed when Rudd came in cause I sure wasnt going to go through another Labor debacle & was correct, now theyve imploded im just sitting back waiting for the repercussions smile


Edited by Dale Small (25/06/2010 10:52)

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#869440 - 25/06/2010 11:33 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Dale Small]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
I had hopes when this government was approaching the election, and hoped that at long last I could return to voting Labor. And fully intended to, when all of a sudden they started chanting Working Families. I know spin when I hear it, and the politics of victimhood, entitlement and greed.

So I voted Green, and independant. And I ALWAYS vote below the line for the Senate, so I can control where my preferences go.

I have hopes of Gillard, she's a straight talker, and she's not afraid to own her own beliefs and thoughts. And in watching the news last night on various channels, I never once heard Working Families used. So I'm hopeful.

although I'll still be voting Green, and Stable Population Party (of which I'm a member), and maybe the animals rights party too. But I might let my preferences flow to Labor after all that, if the others fail to get up.

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#869445 - 25/06/2010 12:00 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ant]
Dave-Wx Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/08/2001
Posts: 4950
Loc: Heritage Park, Brisbane, QLD
Its odd you say that...as throughout what she has said yesterday when she trotted out her major lines...some sort of 'workplace' or 'workers' phrase was at the start of it (followed climate change, saving from the GFC etc etc). It almost sounded to me like "I'm making sure the unions know we're thinking of them and showing that we're back on the straight and narrow again"

Anyway interesting times indeed...no doubt part of the switch is to call an election during her honeymoon period (ie: Oct-Nov), to maximise their chances of getting in again.

And something I'm very surprised at is all the polls that the news websites have going at the moment - all say 'will you vote for Gillard' and they are all displaying an emphatic NO across the board! (with a slim yes vote by comparison on the ABC website)

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#869452 - 25/06/2010 12:54 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Dave-Wx]
AaronD Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2007
Posts: 1017
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
i think people were getting worried because Rudd made such big moves and people were becoming uneasy about them. people don't like being outside their comfort zone.
The thing is Rudd did get voted in by the people and Gillard and her "crew" have decided THEY want to take a different approach so we will kick him out.

Now everyone has their opinions but Rudd was voted in and he had his ideas on immigrants etc... I read in an article where Gillard said something about understanding that people who don't want so many immigrants in Australia and will address that.
now i dont think the immigration issue issue should be discussed here or the topic will get banned but my point is how i think alot of people would have voted for Rudd for his ideas on such topics.
if that makes sense?? :-)

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#869455 - 25/06/2010 13:14 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Dale Small]
Scud Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/08/2001
Posts: 1207
Loc: Mcleans Ridges
Originally Posted By: Dale Small
Technically, she has until April 2011 to call it, so if I were her, would be hanging on as long as possible to do some damage control, if that can be achieved at all.


I would have thought she may do this too however last night on The 730 report she guaranteed the election will be this year. She also won't be moving into the lodge unless she gets voted in as PM by the people. Wonder how long Kev will stay in there for...

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#869459 - 25/06/2010 13:56 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Scud]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
It's kind of ironic that religion and politics are allowed back in. If Abbott gets into power this nation will need to get used to the two becoming one.

As for yesterday's event, the right thing was done by the party and I believe that as disappointed as Rudd is, he was a part of the process of change. He also showed his political will by staying in the party. Plenty before him have simply fallen on their sword so he should be admired for that courage. I watched the entire process live and when it came Abbott's turn to speak I made my mind up right there and then that all the while he is the leader of the LNP I will never vote there again. What an ungracious grub of a man he is. He has redefined the term "bigot". They'd do much better to dump the clown and get Joe out in front.

I expect that we will see a quick resolution on the mining tax now too. Other than the greedy pig that is Clive Palmer, the rest appear ready to sit down and get a result.

After the dust settles on yesterday's events I would also expect a rise in support for Gillard from the female population. Afterall , Abbott thinks women were put here to iron his shirts. It will be an interesting few months ahead that is for sure.

Most of the nation saw an historical day in Australian politics and not all in a good sense. However I doubt most will understand the actual mechanics of yesterday's events. The moment there were murmurs about a leadership challenge the axe had started to fall. Whilst Gillard is being labelled by many as a back stabber, the truth is she had nothing to do with the leadup. She is merely a consequence of its end.

Abbott will need to be very careful how he treads with her in coming months because no-one likes a bully. I personally believe he would much prefer she was still the deputy. I predict she will be in the public eye for the next three months more than Rudd was for the past 3 years. This is where he failed.


I have never been aligned to one party. Howard got me twice. Despite the shortcomings of this current government I still can't help but feel the alternative is worse.

Yep, interesting times ahead.
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#869460 - 25/06/2010 14:12 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ColdFront]
Arnost Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 10/02/2007
Posts: 3909
I bet the mods just had collective apoplexy after that post CF! You certainly didn’t hold back much..! LOL.
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#869461 - 25/06/2010 14:21 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ColdFront]
Keith Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 16/12/2001
Posts: 6453
Loc: Kings Langley, NSW
Originally Posted By: ColdFront
....... Abbott thinks women were put here to iron his shirts.

Actually, on the Today show some time back as part of the weekly 'Abbott and Gillard' segment, Abbott did do some ironing..literally. There had been a discussion on their family roles and how they spend time with family when away from the 'bear pit'. The two political opponents then hugged one another (at the behest of the show host of course).

As I say, all a bit staged for the show. But no matter who you support, it was funny to watch.

(Really, I don't think shirts need ironing.)

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#869462 - 25/06/2010 14:25 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
ColdFront Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/06/2008
Posts: 19046
Loc: The Beach.
Hmmm I didn't go for any individuals in here. I don't feel good about either party. I can't vote for a green party with a leader that is as ridgid as iron. So I don't see the problem with it. SBT has expressed his view on who he won't be voting for. As has Dale. Fair is fair yeah?

I don't like Anna Bligh too much but the way Clive Palmer has bullied her is rather grubby for a man reportedly worth several billion dollars and crying about paying more tax. So he deserves a mention. I live in a state where the opposition is a bunch of misfits who have spent their time in the wilderness jostling for position rather than working on alternative policy.

I haven't seen much of it from the federal opposition either. They are attacking Gillard as a backstabber despite 2 leadership spills of their own in recent times. They say you have to be of a certain ilk to run as a politician. Any idea why? The enire political system in this country needs to go back to the drawing board. Perhaps if we had several close run parties to chose from they'd work harder to avoid a much lengthier time in opposition.


I saw the ironing segment too Keith. AKA damage control.
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#869466 - 25/06/2010 14:41 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnost]
Greg Sorenson Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/11/2005
Posts: 3256
Loc: Canberra!
haha, yer interesting post CF. Good to see that you aren't aligned with just one party based on your previous voting. I too am a swinging voter and i take my vote very seriously. Both major and minor parties have in the past provided valid policies that i believe were for the betterment of the country. I have not liked them all, but at least i have gone for the best package put on the table at the time. I'm not one of those voters who asked themselves, will this improve "my" life, rather, will this improve "everyones" lives. People can be selfish, and often look at things in tunnel vision.

I think Australian voters should be informed, well prepared, armed with all the facts about promised policies, and then execute their decisions. Perhaps there will be one single issue that will make you decide, or a more holistic approach may be needed. The point is, don't waste your vote. Other countries don't have the some right, or privilege for that matter, as we do. We should be thankful for it.

In terms of leadership candidates, i can't say that i favour Abbott at this stage. He hasn't proven that he can be balanced in his views so far, especially in finding a the middle ground within his far right winged ideals. He has time however to prove otherwise and soften his approach. Gillard too, has time to prove that she can mop up the mistakes made so far and build upon some of the good outcomes in this term. Be it one month or 5, there's time to grab my vote.

What ever the outcome, it sure will be one of the most anticipated elections for some time. So many twists and turns, you can almost cut the air here in Canberra atm, it's really electric.
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#869473 - 25/06/2010 15:38 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Greg Sorenson]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
Good words, ColdFront. I see nothing wrong there, the forum rules are about attacking other contributors, ad-hominem argument, which is attacking the man, not the ball. CF certainly wasn't doing that, he/she is stating their views. Stating them well, I might add.

I don't support Abbott because his history shows him to be a socially neanderthal idealogue, who is quite prone to acting on his personal beliefs (morning-after pill, family planning removed from foreign aid programs etc). He's had a make-over, which should always set the alarm bells ringing, because make-overs are a facade. He's probably quite a reasonable bloke, but, his track record makes me believe he's unfit to run a progressive country like ours.

I joined the population control movement because like many others I'm scared of what's happening, and the strongly pro-natalist and pro-immigration policies of the Howard and Rudd governments made me despair. The Greens weren't tackling the population elephant in the loungeroom, which has prompted many who would have gone Green to move beyond them and create a specific party to get the topic out in the sun.

I also became very concerned at how successfully both major parties were painting refugees as some terrible threat, while continuing to import hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants. That's not just spin, that's downright evil.

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#869535 - 25/06/2010 23:34 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ant]
dcon Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2009
Posts: 464
Loc: S.E. Suburbs, Adelaide |
I think this thread is a good idea...it hopefully will show that we can put across our opinions and perspectives in a logical, reasoned sequence without feeling the need to resort to abuse, which everyone has done so far. If we act like adults and respect each others views even at the same time as disagreeing with them, this thread will be beneficial and mentally stimulating.

just a comment on the post above...which im sure that most of you will totally disagree with....I just think its important to stand back and view the direction this country is going.
Originally Posted By: ant
...his track record makes me believe he's unfit to run a progressive country like ours....


the use of the word progressive - its freely bandied around in this age - is as I see it, purely subjective to ones own views - not political, but ones moral views. what may be progressive to one person may be retrogressive.

Having said that, i think that many of the changes that have happened in this country in the last 10 years are indisputablely progressive - women rising to positions of leadership, respect for people of all cultures including the original owners of our country, and there are many more.

However, some of abbots views on sensitive issues (which i wont mention here) are so-called indisputably retrogressive, but the bigger perspective is that they are not fundamentally indisputably backward, but it depends on the moral beliefs of the person judging. Liberation is not always progressive, history clearly shows that. So I support Abbot, not because he says or does everything right, but because having a conservative leader encourages the country to think not once, not twice, but three times before bringing changes which will radically change the direction (particularly moral) of the future of this country.

hope i havent overstepped the line...but ive given my one cents worth.


Edited by dcon (25/06/2010 23:36)
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#869556 - 26/06/2010 08:08 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: ant]
David Simpson. Offline
Weatherzone Administrator/Moderator

Registered: 13/10/2002
Posts: 4933
Loc: Tasmania
It all seems morally corrupt to me, but I guess there are no surprises there. I wasn't a fan of Krudd but the same rats who ganged up on him now run the country, in time perhaps Karma will determine their fate. If it doesn't, I'm sure the unions (who must be stoked with the weeks events) will.

When parliament next sits...

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#869558 - 26/06/2010 08:10 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: dcon]
Arnoldnut Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/10/2006
Posts: 1559
Loc: Arnold, NthWest Vic
may think this off topic but I don't think anyone should automatically assume women will vote for women.
My experience with many aussie woman is that they may seem happy to see a woman in what they perceive as a mans job. But many many times I've had a situation with a woman mechanic in the workshop and some women customers refuse to have a woman work on their cars.
I saw it so many times ....the men customers had no problem .....while some women just refused to allow the woman mechanic to touch their cars.
Might think this has nothing to do with anything ....but ask any automotive dealer/large workshop and they will tell you exactly what I've said here ....not worth your business suffering to employ any. (this is common knowledge in aussie automotive ...ask anyone who holds the reins)

I just don't think anyone should assume Julia 's got half the votes automatically ...in fact I'm more inclined to believe the opposite is in play and she now needs to convince all aussie women.
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#869565 - 26/06/2010 08:54 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnoldnut]
Ruckle Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 03/08/2005
Posts: 6464
Loc: Woodend VIC 579m ASL - where w...
Interesting points all, Arnoldnut in particular raises an interesting topic. At my work there are about 60 people, split 50 50 along male females lines (and one undecided, lol) with most likely 70% in the 21-26 age group (making me an old fart at 38 in the office). Anyway it was interesting to note yesterday women did seem to be making more of the gender issue. "Can you handle a female pm?", "Girl power"etc. Most of the male discussion was along the lines of politics and was pro or anti the govt based on policy not gender. So in short I was proud of my male colleagues (despite disagreeing with some of them naturally on policy) and a little disheartened by the females approach.

Another disheartening thing over the last couple of days has been the amount of ignorance about how our political system works. The cry of"I voted for Rudd", was he on your ballot? No, you voted for your local mp. I know our elections have taken on the appearance of a more presidential election in recent years but that is not the reality of our system. Schools , what are you doing?

Onto the election, my money is on a very very quick calling of the vote. I think the honeymoon period would be the ALP and Julia's best chance to retain the job- if I were making decision for them I'd be going down that path.
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#869569 - 26/06/2010 09:07 Re: Australian Federal Election 2010 [Re: Arnoldnut]
Andy Double U Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/10/2006
Posts: 1829
Loc: Mundoolun, SE QLD, 129m ASL
I think you are bang on Arnoldnut. Another example that I witnessed just recently was when I headed to a mate's place and the AFL was on the telly with a female commentator (I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I don't recall her name as I hardly ever watch footy on TV). Anyway, the most interesting thing was the generally negative comments that came from the females at our gathering, one even saying that she'd rather listen to a man any day of the week! Needless to say we blokes shrunk into the background looking at our beers, we weren't sure whether a murmuring of approval or disapproval was warranted grin .

It was interesting to read in the newspaper headlines about feminism's big leap forward thanks to Gillard's ascension. To me, calling a female, a Prime Minister, seems a bit backward if you ask me, maybe she should a prime ministeress? Anyway, with cries of joy from those in the feminism movement I think the real issue of gender equality took a back seat. I've coached women's footy teams, seen them play with more passion than most guys teams, I know many women who own and run successful businesses but it seems unless you've been perceived as breaking the mould in some way then it seems you really aren't all that special. Real equality is judging a person by their achievements and what they stand for, not making a big about attaining a position based on their gender! Obama's election was also a classic case of old style prejudice rearing its head in a reverse kind of way.

Either way it won't matter to my vote what gender, race, colour, religious persuasion etc. or hair colour the leader of a party has. As the ALP has demonstrated quite clearly, your vote is one for the party, not for the leader. It's not like any of us had the option of ticking the Kevin Rudd PM box at the last election! Having said that, it is obvious that Kevin Rudd with his tiny circle of close confidants did exercise a degree of control over the ALP policy direction for about two years. The ALP really did need to give him his head though because he was the one authoritarian enough to gather the squabbling mess together to look unified enough to run a country. I think it is obvious to all that decisions that have been made since the beginning of the year are proof enough that running a government/country with only four people is an enormous task and can easily fall apart under pressure.

The one I can't believe is Wayne Swan, how he went from being Kevin Rudd's No. 1 buddy to Gillard's is beyond me! He is a definite snake in the grass with a strong sense of what's best for him and one who I would not trust one iota. It's an absolute shame that the ALP's best performer (and the one who I have most respect for), Lindsay Tanner, will not be contesting the next election as I actually think he does have a good idea of what would be good for the country. I think his resignation is a sign of a lack of faith in the party as a whole.

The way it stands right now, I don't know what the government stands for. Gillard has a big task ahead to sort things out and she would be stupid not to consider calling an early election to capitalise on the honeymoon period that she will no doubt get. As far as I am concerned, she, through her involvement in the decision of the recent spate of poor policies, has a lot to answer for.

Hey CF, remember this photo? Anna Bligh looked pretty happy here smile (Taken from this story)

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