Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#896636 - 08/11/2010 22:48 Snow in Sydney
Loopy Radar Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 880
Loc: Lismore NSW
I've heard that in approx 1908 that it snowed so much in George st.Sydney that snow men were made. Is there any info to support this claim? Personally I wouldn't be surprised if its true.


Edited by mr crankyhippy (08/11/2010 22:49)
_________________________
It's going to be a great storm season... somewhere else!

Top
#898612 - 16/11/2010 22:36 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Loopy Radar]
BOM99 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2004
Posts: 4645
Loc: Australia
I thought it was a bit earlier in the 1860's I think. But yes it is true that Sydney has had a few settled snowfalls in the distant past.

Top
#898620 - 16/11/2010 22:51 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: BOM99]
Canberra's Weather Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 11/11/2005
Posts: 1141
Loc: Canberra
How could that be possible? It's too warm in Sydney (even during the coldest of cold spells) to snow, at least down to sea level???¿¿¿???

I read somewhere that that one snowfall record in the 1800s is a mistaken observation for hail or something similar.
_________________________
Stop the Hot

Top
#898626 - 16/11/2010 23:25 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Canberra's Weather]
Grant Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/08/2002
Posts: 1523
Loc: Greta NSW, 70m ASL
Hasn't always been this warm CW, you've said that many a time yourself...
_________________________
BoM Storm Spotter, Storm/Snow chaser, Weatherman, Webmaster (www.raymondterrace.hunterweather.com), Hunter Weather on facebook etc

Top
#898637 - 17/11/2010 01:02 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Grant]
Dave-Wx Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/08/2001
Posts: 4950
Loc: Heritage Park, Brisbane, QLD
Quote:
Sydney

Snow in Sydney is extremely rare. Since European settlement, there have been a few cases recorded of blowing snowflakes, but only 4 occurrences of snow on the ground in any real quantity. All these cases occurred during the icy winter of 1836. T.A Browne (better known as Rolf Boldrewood, author of "Robbery Under Arms") kept weather observations during this period and noted that "the years 1836, 1837 and 1838 were years of drought, and in one of these years (1836) a remarkable thing happened. There was a fall of snow; we made snowballs at Enmore and enjoyed the usual schoolboy amusements therewith". The Sydney Herald reported on the same incident headed "A Stranger" "For the first time in the memory of the oldest inhabitants, snow fell in Sydney on the morning of Tuesday last. (27 June 1836) About 7 O’clock in the morning, a drifting fall covered the streets nearly one inch in depth. Some of the "old hands" expressed a hope that their old acquaintances Messrs. Frost and Snow do not intend emigrating to NSW".

(Reference: "Before King’s Cross" - Freda McDowell, Thomas Nelson, 1967 )

There are also a few anecdotal accounts of snow being observed falling on the observation deck of Centrepoint Tower (305m above street level in central Sydney)


http://wikiski.com/wiki/index.php/Unusual_snow_events_in_Australia#Sydney

Top
#898641 - 17/11/2010 05:49 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Dave-Wx]
MascotWX Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 12/11/2010
Posts: 86
I'm almost certain Bankstown airport reported snow for two observations in a row in 1986 either July or August, whether it was really snow or hail though is the question.

Top
#898661 - 17/11/2010 09:09 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: MascotWX]
kizz Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 11/02/2002
Posts: 1935
Loc: Beacon Hill, Sydney 152m asl
July 25, 1986. Snow flakes were reported in many elevated areas in Sydney as a cold front swept through in the afternoon. I was listening to the radio when reports came in from Engadine, Turramurra etc. The temperature dropped to 7°C in the city by 3pm.
I don't remember any reports of snow settling or snow flakes in less elevated areas. I didn't see any and I was desperately looking for any snow having heard the reports come in!

Top
#898665 - 17/11/2010 09:16 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: MascotWX]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
It would be remiss of me to pass up this topic smile.

I'm a bit undecided on this one. I've been searching through the NLA newspaper archives and have come across many mentions of 'snow' in various Sydney suburbs. Some of these are almost certainly small hail (an "isolated" fall in Ryde for example). The 1836 fall is the one most often cited and accounts of schoolboys (at Rose Bay no less) merrily throwing snowballs sound unbelievable in the context of the current climate. Obviously, we can't access atmospheric data for this event, so analysis will never progress beyond anecdotal evidence. In my mind, this is likely a genuine snowfall as reports from numerous locations were documented. I'm ready to be convinced otherwise though.

Aside from 1836, a few non settling flurries fell on the upper north shore in 1965 which is believable given the airmass. 1986 was also cold, but seeing as Bankstown is close to sea level this was likely graupel/sago at best. Hopefully this next decade will bring another mega cold outbreak, we can only hope.

Top
#898670 - 17/11/2010 10:33 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: HumphreyBear]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 10095
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Given that I have personally seen snow in heavy showers (In Tassie & recently in Bathurst) up to 6 or 7 degrees, I believe it is quite likely that the right conditions could occur on rare occasions.

Also, re the above statement, I am a snow freak and spent lots of time being in and watching snow fall, so the snow at 6 degrees was quite real and not some uninformed observation like we often see. smile

Top
#898676 - 17/11/2010 11:09 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: DaveM]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
There is usually very little moisture in the Sydney Basin in a classical SW'ly setup, so for precip to occur we need an extremely strong system. However if precip does survive the trip, it could well fall as snow at high temperatures as the airmass dries out.

If the change is more S'ly, then moisture would be ample however temps would then be too warm as the airmass is maritime. So yes, you really need a freak SW'ly change to have any chance of even a flurry in the Basin.

Top
#898709 - 17/11/2010 13:32 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: HumphreyBear]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 10095
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Agree 100% and I guess that's why we have so few observations in Sydney. It would need to be a perfect convergence and it surely could only happen in a very short time span. It's really an exaggeration of the problem here in the CT's, it usually only gets cold enough for snow as the air is quickly drying out with the SW wind. BUT if you can get one or two showers to remain strong enough it might happen.

Despite all the apparent warming since the early 1900's, I think it is still possible too although not particularly likely.

Top
#898732 - 17/11/2010 15:59 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: DaveM]
Crash Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 23/04/2008
Posts: 1
Loc: Inner West, Sydney
Blizzard's web-page has a good record of snow events in and around Sydney:

NSW non alpine snow fall events 1808 to 2010

Top
#898757 - 17/11/2010 19:18 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Crash]
ozthunder Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 3092
Loc: Mt Warrigal, NSW, Australia
I am over 50 and have been a keen weather observer all my life that has been lived in around Wollongong.

I have not seen a single snow flake at sea level.

The lowest fall that I would credence too is a fall at the old Waterfall tollgates when the F6 was a tollway, around 1980's some time. That still would have been at least 200m above sea level.

I do however believe the 1800's Sydney report - too many folk in those days would be from England and know what real snow looks like as opposed to hail.
_________________________
Michael Thompson
http://ozthunder.com

Top
#898794 - 17/11/2010 22:20 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: ozthunder]
Dave-Wx Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/08/2001
Posts: 4950
Loc: Heritage Park, Brisbane, QLD
Originally Posted By: ozthunder
I do however believe the 1800's Sydney report - too many folk in those days would be from England and know what real snow looks like as opposed to hail.


Exactly my thoughts when I was reading about the 1836 report...far too early in our history for your average 'Australian' to mistake small hail for snow (as often happens today)

Top
#898807 - 17/11/2010 23:22 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Dave-Wx]
Canberra's Weather Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 11/11/2005
Posts: 1141
Loc: Canberra
It is extraordinary that snow can ever make it to sea level along coastal Sydney whether it be 1836 or the 21st Century!
_________________________
Stop the Hot

Top
#898811 - 17/11/2010 23:35 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Canberra's Weather]
MascotWX Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 12/11/2010
Posts: 86
Originally Posted By: Canberra's Weather
It is extraordinary that snow can ever make it to sea level along coastal Sydney whether it be 1836 or the 21st Century!


I cannot think of any way Sydney could even see a fluke snowfall, many areas in the northern hemisphere at similar latitude in China, southern Europe, or the U.S. can manage it but thats because they have enough landmass to work with upstream where the cold air does not modify. I guess there is the possibility of a 1 in 5,000 year event where accumulating snow could happen here but its hard to envision the setup that would be needed.

Top
#898812 - 17/11/2010 23:55 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Canberra's Weather]
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2094
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
I was in Canberra for a substantial unseasonable snowfall on the plains in 1965 or 1966.
Looking at Blizzard's list, I guess it was the 12/11/65 event. Two other events of uncertain date in the list could also have been this same event.
Does anyone have better information?
_________________________
Data are cheap; information is expensive!

Top
#898831 - 18/11/2010 07:31 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Surly Bond]
BOM99 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2004
Posts: 4645
Loc: Australia
Surly, these were the temps from Bathurst Ag station at that time you mention.
19651111 10.5 (max)
19651112 3.3 (min)
That agrees well with readings in 1986 which were 4.0 to 10.0 around 20/11/1986 when it snowed around Bathurst. In 2008 Bathurst had 11.8 max during the surrounding snowfall. So it does look likely that there was also a November snowfall in 1965 along the tablelands.

Yes it is amazing to think that Sydney had 38F with snow falling in a SW wind in 1936, would have been increadible on the CT's.


Edited by snowmi (18/11/2010 07:33)

Top
#898848 - 18/11/2010 09:16 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: BOM99]
Loopy Radar Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 880
Loc: Lismore NSW
In 1982 it snowed down to sea level as far north at Moruya, but was a dry change with very brief precipitation. My brother in law was working in Hornsby same day and there was a light flurry. And I presume it was the same change when snow fell on Mt Nardi near Nimbin. But once I found out that it is about 900m above sea level I was not so surprised.
_________________________
It's going to be a great storm season... somewhere else!

Top
#898855 - 18/11/2010 09:30 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Loopy Radar]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 10095
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Surly - in 1968 (I think) there was decent snow well north in NSW, I have seen many pictures of snow in the Quirindi township and surrounds (about 350 to 400 metres asl). Accumulations were about 2cm from memory.

I think that change brought snow to many low elevation areas throughout NSW (even Forbes? I think)

I also saw snow fall there in town (not settle) in uuummm 75 or 76?

Quirindi is a fair way north so lower levels are possible further south.

So on rare occasions things can come together. Especially if we remember that even at 6 or 7 degrees, you can get flurries of snow in the right conditions.

Top
#898867 - 18/11/2010 11:05 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: DaveM]
Loopy Radar Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 880
Loc: Lismore NSW
In 2007 there was quite a dumping of snow down to 300m in the Hunter.
The April 99 Sydney hailstorm is a good example of the regions potential for extreme events. Why not a decent snowstorm? And I don't think the so called global warming would diminish the possibility.
_________________________
It's going to be a great storm season... somewhere else!

Top
#898875 - 18/11/2010 12:09 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Loopy Radar]
HumphreyBear Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/01/2008
Posts: 4167
Loc: Southern Sydney
Get off the happy herbs wink.

Read my previous post and you'll see why it's next to impossible to get a flurry in the Sydney Basin let alone a New England style "Nor'Easter" storm. Not that it stops me from lapsing into fantasy land every once in a while, but as a realist and pessimist I'm quickly brought back to the (hot dry) earth.

The area around the Border Ranges is no stranger to snow so it's no surprise that Mt. Nardi get a dusting or two every once in a while. Mt. Warning is over 1100 m ASL and has probably had some solid falls over the years from ECL's (like the Barringtons, but less common). Accumulations would be light to non existent though because of its jagged peak.

Top
#898883 - 18/11/2010 12:40 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: DaveM]
Dave-Wx Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/08/2001
Posts: 4950
Loc: Heritage Park, Brisbane, QLD
Originally Posted By: DaveM
Surly - in 1968 (I think) there was decent snow well north in NSW, I have seen many pictures of snow in the Quirindi township and surrounds (about 350 to 400 metres asl). Accumulations were about 2cm from memory.


This is interesting...my grandfather tells of it snowing in Gunnedah around this time, with a solid, but still small accumulation (2cm would sound right), enough to make snowballs etc I think. What got me about this was that he reckoned it was late spring (like November or something) but I always kept it in the back of my mind as both he and my grandmother were nearly 30 when they moved to Australia from the Netherlands, so they most definitely know what snow looks like!

I think I'm motivated to ask them again about it this Christmas when I visit smile

Top
#898894 - 18/11/2010 13:47 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Dave-Wx]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 10095
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Yes Dave Wx I think it was late in the winter or in Spring. We moved to Quirindi from Coonamble in Nov/Dec 68 and it was still very much a topic of interest and lots of photos about. Pretty sure it did snow in Gunnedah (whole Liverpool/Breeza Plains areas)and certainly Coonabarabran (which is higher) as well. I know it did not snow in Coonamble though - would have remembered that for sure.

I remember being cheesed at missing snow!! So every year after that I thought it would do it again but only really once do I remember it falling (not settling) in Quirindi up to end of 76 when we left.

Top
#898956 - 18/11/2010 17:00 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: DaveM]
Surly Bond Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2003
Posts: 2094
Loc: Manilla, near Tamworth NSW
Dave and Dave
Are you talking about 1968 for sure?
My snow was almost certainly November 1965.
Were there two late spring snowfalls three years apart?
_________________________
Data are cheap; information is expensive!

Top
#899243 - 19/11/2010 09:32 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Surly Bond]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 10095
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Surly - I am definitely talking 1968, our family moved to Quirindi in the last month or two of 68 and people were still agog about the snow prior to our arrival. It may have been a September event at a guess but not so sure really. I was just so annoyed at having missed it. Being from Coonamble I had really only briefly seen snow once or twice before in the Orange/Borenore area where some of mum's family lived.

Once in Quirindi though we would head to Nundle/Hanging Rock/Sheba Dam any chance we had if it snowed, which it did a few times each winter. We had an excellent view of the Wallabadah Ranges from home and it would look like an "American ranges" scene with snow well down the flanks, very scenic. My very first roll of film (B & W) out of my first camera (Kodak 126 instamatic) had snow photos in it. The start of two loves in my life - photography and snow.

Top
#899949 - 22/11/2010 01:30 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: dimfry]
Prokasaurus Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 12/10/2010
Posts: 7
Too true dimfry!! Im a real sucker for snow as well and often (I laugh alot at this) find myself dreaming about it snowing in my backyard.

Im in the latrobe valley in VIC here and snow settled here when I was 3 years old and I still remember it!! (Im 18 now!)

Wonderful!!

Nothing since then though (at least not in Moe).......mabye next year!? =D


Edited by Prokasaurus (22/11/2010 01:32)

Top
#899960 - 22/11/2010 06:57 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Prokasaurus]
UK Steve Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 05/05/2006
Posts: 2470
Loc: Birmingham, England
Just wondering, where is the most northerly location in Australia where snow has fallen?

Top
#899963 - 22/11/2010 07:16 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: UK Steve]
BOM99 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2004
Posts: 4645
Loc: Australia
If you are talking sea level then I would expect it to be the Great Australian Bight due to the cold ocean temps there. But given a little altitude I have heard of snow falling briefly on Ayres Rock.

Top
#899979 - 22/11/2010 08:48 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: BOM99]
Loopy Radar Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 05/10/2010
Posts: 880
Loc: Lismore NSW
"from lapsing into fantasy land every once in a while, but as a realist and pessimist I'm quickly brought back to the (hot dry) earth."
Getting baseball size hail with surface temp at 21 degrees was in the realms of fantasy, until it happened.
_________________________
It's going to be a great storm season... somewhere else!

Top
#899991 - 22/11/2010 10:04 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: MascotWX]
ozthunder Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 3092
Loc: Mt Warrigal, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: MascotWX

I cannot think of any way Sydney could even see a fluke snowfall, many areas in the northern hemisphere at similar latitude in China, southern Europe, or the U.S. can manage it but thats because they have enough landmass to work with upstream where the cold air does not modify.


I think Buenos Aires at almost identical latitude to Sydney has had snow on more than one occasion, like the for mentioned there is also a greater landmass southwards, although very narrow.

I would go as far as a once in 200/300 year event however for Sydney.
_________________________
Michael Thompson
http://ozthunder.com

Top
#900009 - 22/11/2010 13:22 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: UK Steve]
Ruckle Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 03/08/2005
Posts: 6298
Loc: Woodend VIC 579m ASL - where w...
Originally Posted By: UK Steve
Just wondering, where is the most northerly location in Australia where snow has fallen?


Pretty sure it snowed in the higher country near Mackay?

Think another thread exists for this subject.Somewhere.....
_________________________
Check out my Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Ruckle18?feature=mhum for more storms and even some snow

Top
#900018 - 22/11/2010 14:10 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Ruckle]
MC Thomas Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/12/2004
Posts: 1119
Loc: Melbourne
I will agree with MascotWX. Who know's though, maybe in some fluke event one of two wet flakes might fall. Australia's winter weather is generally more mild than other places at similiar latitude. I believe Shanghai gets the odd dusting of snow and that is at a similar latitude as Coff's Harbour.

Just to show how the Southern Ocean impacts our weather:

Harbin (45 degree N, 150 m elevation) - average max and min temps in Jan: -12 and -24, respectively.

Hobart (43 degree S) - average max and min temps in Jul: 12 and 5, respectively.

(data from wikipedia, sounds about right though)

Top
#900083 - 22/11/2010 18:24 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Ruckle]
Seabreeze Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 18/09/2005
Posts: 10332
Loc: South West Rocks, NSW
Originally Posted By: Ruckle
Originally Posted By: UK Steve
Just wondering, where is the most northerly location in Australia where snow has fallen?


Pretty sure it snowed in the higher country near Mackay?

Think another thread exists for this subject.Somewhere.....


Yes, in the Eungella National Park (about 21ºS, in the high country behind Mackay). I presume it would have occurred on one of the higher peaks/parts in the National Park and not in the village itself (which is only about 700m ASL). Really nice area too and I saw my first wild platypus there.
_________________________
South West Rocks, NSW Mid North Coast:
April 2018 Rainfall: 64.6mm (Apr Avg. 169.9mm) // April 2018 Raindays: 10 (Apr Avg. 12.9 raindays)
Year-to-date Rainfall: 722.4mm (Jan-Apr Avg. 670.4mm) // Year-to-date Raindays: 49 (Jan-Apr Avg. 55.8 raindays)

Top
#900477 - 24/11/2010 14:12 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Seabreeze]
Storm Hunter Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 31/08/2004
Posts: 1216
Loc: Ellalong.10kms SW of Cessnock ...
pics here on my website in snow pics.
http://www.freewebs.com/supercell1/index.htm

Top
#900574 - 24/11/2010 19:04 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Storm Hunter]
BOM99 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 23/08/2004
Posts: 4645
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Storm Hunter
pics here on my website in snow pics.
http://www.freewebs.com/supercell1/index.htm


Well done, that brings back memories, I grew up in Newcastle in the 70's and remember that plaque on Mount Sugarloaf commemorating the 19/07/65 snowfall. I will have to quote this in the high country ramblings thread, classic pictures.

Top
#900722 - 25/11/2010 09:01 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: BOM99]
DaveM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 21/05/2001
Posts: 10095
Loc: Bathurst NSW about 700 m asl
Well done ST - the snow at Kulnura and Mangrove is at an area approx (rusty memory) around 300m to 350m asl. In snow falls such as that, it would be very possible to SEE snow flakes at even lower levels which is what the topic was originally about. Cheers.

Top
#1446770 - 02/01/2018 06:23 Re: Snow in Sydney [Re: Loopy Radar]
James West Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 20/11/2017
Posts: 4
On the 21st of June 1972 it snowed near Kellyville. It was spread over about a square mile from around the Windsor road to Castlebrook cemetery and in a square leg all the way up to the top of Kellyville Ridge. The heaviest concentration was around where the Ettamogah Hotel and Mcdonalds now are. The remnants of the old Lochinvar motel are still there, I believe. The bloke running the motel was up on the flat roof of the building shovelling the snow off. Stuff like that was hardly ever reported on the TV news in those days. I seem to remember it was reported in one of the local Hawkesbury papers. I saw the snow myself - passing motorists were building little snowmen on the bumpers of their cars. And it was snow - not graupel like we got in Elizabeth Bay in July of 2008.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Who's Online
5 registered (Tammi, Turbo Taxi, menthurae, 2 invisible), 345 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Today's Birthdays
MrMeh, outbackellis, snow more
Forum Stats
29543 Members
32 Forums
23882 Topics
1489389 Posts

Max Online: 2925 @ 02/02/2011 22:23
Satellite Image