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#1009296 - 01/09/2011 06:52 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: Jax]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
Sun Co-incidence was mosy likely shown in several of your most recent images with the big black arrow pointing them out.

If you care to determine the azimuth of the sun for the date/time/day you will find a damn close correlation.
You must realise the images you see on the web are not confined to a single elevation tilt, but several combined into a composite image. This increases the likelihood of seeing the sun during the day.

The sun's power can be several dB above the noise floor, and when it exceeds our noise threshold (ala squelch) a line will appear.
Our research people are even post event analysing these lines at some sites to confirm radar performance and orientation!

You posted this on pg 23 of this thread:


The two parallel lines call out sun coincidence to me.


Other lines have only appeared in recent years, and this tracks damn awfully close with the emergence of WiFi units operating on the 5GHz band (802.11n).
Our C-band radar's operate smack bang in the middle of their nominal spectrum band, and a requirement for sale in Australia is that these units must not use the channels that fall within 5600-5650MHz. This is because the Bureau did agitate to have these channels prohibited in Australia.
Legally acquired units purchased from Australian retailers are not the problem. The problem is any units that are sourced from Europe or Japan where this is not a requirement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels
Our worst was pinpointed to a dredge operating in the waters about Melbourne, invariably causing a line in the SE quadrant which was featured in many of your images. It took many months for the ACMA to find it.

A line may appear to start from a particular point in range. This is not the location of the source, it can be from anywhere along that direction from the radar. Our swept gain simply allows this nominal continuous wave power to exceed our "rain threshold" as range increases. ie The other source is not synchronised with our radar, so ranging is indeterminate.

I must admit it would be interesting to align one of the troublesome radars in the Pilbara with these line sources, and feed a WLAN base unit with the signal from our receiver. One wonders if the SSID would simply spring up...

You must realise that these interference riddled images are embarassing to ourselves and despite appearances a lot of work has taken place over recent years to reduce the appearance of these images.
As I have stated earlier, the human eye/brain is very good at seeing these effects, but the computers, especially those on the older radars are not. The radar's themselves only have a limited field of view at best 3 degrees wide by a couple of km deep. If you were to move a hole in a sheet of paper over an image you would have a good feel for how the radar sees the larger picture.
WZ gets their data pretty much directly from the radars, so aberations are highly likely to appear.
They also show radars that are not normally shown on the Bureau's web pages.

The Broadmeadows event was during a particular bad run in Melbourne.
A massive failure of the Laverton transmitter saw it out of action for a couple of months.
During which time the airport radars became the Melbourne radar. When that failed the service fell back to the Broadmeadows radar, and this happened whilst another radar at the same site was active. Result being the spiral bands and hot core. Every trainee that passes through our training facility there is sure to have seen this style of image many times over.

As for only showing interest in recent weeks, well that is because I had not been to these forums for a very lengthy period of time. I am sorry that was not able to respond as post #4 at the time as I simply did not see it/was not aware of its existence.

I cannot explain why the rings of noise may appear randomly and be gone in the next 10 minutes. Something has definitely affected the receiver. But it is very difficult to pinpoint a transient event even if you have all your test equipment attached and ready to use. I have no explanation for the pink line at Esperance.
Events near dusk and dawn can be due to bugs and insects setting flight and manage to push our noise threshold, but that is usually confined to closer ranges.

Radar systems are challenging to operate at there prime, they are very sensitive receivers when tuned correctly.

The Bureau owns and operates over 60 radars, the majority of which function day in day out without a problem. If it takes only one rogue image to spoil the day thats a ratio of 1 : (24 * 6 * 60) (hours * scans per hour * num radars)
Unfortunately it is human nature to criticise failure.

I am particularly sensitive to the notion that HAARP causes all our radar image stuff ups.
That is total BS and a lie.
HAARP is one of many other possible sources of signals, but to jump on that bandwagon from the up go is not a considered approach.

So there you go, I am attempting to bring facts to this round table.
It is your choice to accept or deny, that's your perogative.

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#1009298 - 01/09/2011 07:00 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: zathras]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
You also mentioned why don't we see the lines all the time from Dampier?

The radar will only see another transmitter if it is active at the time the radar sweeps past.
The antenna's usually move at around 18 degrees / second. That means there is only 55ms spent at any particular angle.
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the remote transmitter is idle during this time interval.

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#1009326 - 01/09/2011 10:22 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: zathras]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
Zathras, thank you so much for your input. it is highly valuable information for us, as we are trying to figure out, if, indeed, these anomolies are part of a bigger network. Your "boss' should be commending you for taking the time to share your knowledge, and give worthwhile explanations to our questions. Your answers make us question our investigations.

I know that we are heavily involved with the HAARp project,for what ever reason, so that is not even a subject for discussion. Whether the beams are being transmitted from a mobile transmitter/or ionosonde, I am trying to figure out as well. The Learmonth transmitter was not transmitting yesterday, and I do not think that the beams are coming from south Hedland. I will check the shipping and navy, as there may well be an explanation there. The Mornington Island and Tenant Creek anomolies are a little more interesting, as are the spectrum beams associated with them, from Wyndham and Halls creek, on the day.
All the ionospheric research conducted by the ips-
http://www.ips.gov.au/World_Data_Centre/2/1/1,
in conjunction with the BOM, may be a neccessary operation, and the negative implications of being closely linked to the HAARP network, is obviously a point of contention. But why?
Is it only because the HAARP program received such bad press in the 90's?
I just don't understand why the governments and its agencies have to be so defensive about an association, if there is nothing to be defensive about?
I will discuss this further in the ELF thread, but I feel that you need to understand that we appreciate your input.
_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1009393 - 01/09/2011 17:36 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: Cliffhanger]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
I have no contention with HAARP, but I do with wild guesses associating rogue radar images with HAARP when I know the true cause of the images. ;-)
Likewise I am unaware of any close linakge between HAARP and the Bureau.
Yes the Bureau now encompasses IPS, but I believe this is a fairly loose arrangement.
We certainly make great use of their solar flux reports for radar antenna calibration purposes.

Another aspect that troubles he with the HAARP transmissions is I understand those to be directed vertically into the ionosphere, to allegedly heat an area.
This would require a very focussed beam to garner sufficient field strength to cause heating.
RF field strengths diminish quite rapidly with range, even with our narrowest 1deg pencil beams from a radar.
To achieve very narrow beams at one ELF/VLF requires very large arrays of antennas due to the very long wavelengths.

Our radars however scan horizontally at lowish elevations, so seeing the alleged ionospheric target is very unlikely....

Obviously the topic is of interest to me.



Edited by zathras (01/09/2011 17:38)

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#1009575 - 02/09/2011 18:44 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: zathras]
Jax Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/12/2009
Posts: 744
Thanks Zathras, your reply is much appreciated. And thank you too Cliffhanger, your words pretty much mirror my thoughts in response.

Zathras, I often see what you describe as sun-coincidence lines at times when the sun is either setting or rising and dismiss those as such, but it hadn't occurred to me that the radar would pick up the sun at 10:30 am as you describe from the Thurs 4 August image. Wouldn't we see a lot more lines if that were the case? That reasoning also doesn't account for the line that crosses through them from Pt Hedland - although your comments re WiFi could well explain that, it is a busy shipping area.

Anyway, the interest I showed in those lines a few days back on Wed 31 August was due more to the timing of them showing up in sequence with the other anomalies that day from Halls Creek, Tennant Creek and Mornington Island. It's hard to tell from screen shots, but watching the loop at the time it was apparent that the lines which began at 9:20 and continued intermittently until after noon were all in the same direction, which wouldn't correspond with the sun's movement, but could as you pointed out have been caused as a result of WiFi units operating on the 5GHz band.

I assure you that my intention is not to embarrass or criticise BoM or its employees by pointing out these images when I see them. If these images, some of which you admit you can't explain, do actually turn out to be somehow connected to activities carried out using HAARP / JORN / or whatever other technologies and networks, then this record of them could prove useful. I just hope you decide to delve into Cliffhanger's research with an open mind - who knows, you might discover that the radars you understand so well might actually be reacting to things you've not previously known about. Your expertise would certainly go a long way towards definitively deciding one way or the other.

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#1009586 - 02/09/2011 21:27 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: Jax]
Big_Pete Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 19/12/2004
Posts: 1955
Loc: Perth
It says on the BoM national sat loop:
Quote:
If you notice any circular patterns or straight lines originating from the centre of the radar location, this is due to occasional interference to the radar data. The Bureau is currently investigating ways to reduce these interferences.

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/national_radar_sat.loop.shtml

Has anyone done that? Has the BoM workers directly involved with radar work mentioned HAARP?

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#1009606 - 02/09/2011 23:31 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: Big_Pete]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
today we had a few more interesting images;

The lines seem to come directly from Cairns. They were not aparant on all weather sites. BOM did not show them at all.

























The next ones are perculiar. On the BOM national map, the odd beam appeared quite prominantly, yet when closed in to the radar point, it wasn't there. Weatherzone picked it up beautifully.The pulsing lasted for 10 minutes:





Here is the related satellite view:
_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1009608 - 02/09/2011 23:38 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: Cliffhanger]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
I took some captures of the marine traffic in the area at the time. Could explain the Port headland beams. But nothing around Wyndham, although i did notice the ERASMUS GRACHT hovering around Darwin. Bit far away to be playing with the Ionosonder in Wyndham?



_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1009610 - 02/09/2011 23:50 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: Cliffhanger]
Cliffhanger Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2011
Posts: 320
Loc: Brisbane, Qld
Halls creek was also doing its thing, only recorded one pulse.
I somehow think it is connected to the Wyndham pulsebeam.
also the 2 beams coming from the Cairns area are unmistakably similar to the 'forked beams" spotted in the US,or am i just seeing things there?
No other pulse beams captured anywhere else in WA, to correspond with the Wyndham beam.

Could someone please tell me what exactly we are seeing when we see the green areas form on the radar maps?
I assumed it was precipitation, as in cloud formation of some sort, or just moisture. However, Ionosondes and Digisondes are shooting way higher and actually measuring the d layer of the ionosphere, I thought, which could explain why the radars are telling us that there is 'cloud" but we can't see it. But it still has me puzzled, because even checking the satellite in standard and B/w infrared, sometimes does not pick up any cover. Anyone? ( and by the way- yes Wyndham is totally attached to HAARP and the data collection process for Gakona- hey zanthras?;0)

_________________________
www.australianradaranomalies.wordpress.com For those souls who want to know more then what you are allowed to talk about!!
climate change, cloud seeding information,and of course anything radar. cheers everyone!!!.

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#1009636 - 03/09/2011 07:25 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: Cliffhanger]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
Originally Posted By: Cliffhanger
( and by the way- yes Wyndham is totally attached to HAARP and the data collection process for Gakona- hey zanthras?;0)



NO NO NO Cliffdangler.

Purely advising of any incorrect "information" you provided.


Edited by zathras (03/09/2011 07:26)

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#1009639 - 03/09/2011 07:59 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: zathras]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
OK, so we have two images from *two different sites* that produce a faulty data set showing a "rainbow serpent" to the direct north at *both* sites.
Why aren't these lines inclind to each other?

Both these sites use our older signal processors, built back in the late 80's.
It is also for this same reason that the Bureau is continually upgrading radars, along with installing new sites to improve coverage for the *general public*, not to support HAARP.
Old equipment does become unreliable with age, it's a fact of life.
I know that these systems have not been upgraded for about 10 years now.
Maintained yes, upgraded no.

I know that the internal architecture of these old systems has two processor cards.
One processor collects the radar echo data.
The second handles the communications offsite as asynchronous serial data (no error checking).
Between these processor cards is a third card of paged memory.
ie all the image data passes through this memory from one processor to the next.

The web images are always sourced from the first page of this shared memory.
I propose that these *very old* systems are starting to fall over and now have a memory addressing issue causing dubious data accesses to this shared memory. These systems do not have the horsepower to verify these memory write operations (8MHZ 8088 processors), and even if they did test their writes I suspect they would report OK anyway if the test is immediately performed.

However it appears that when the comms processor reads back the data it gets all the data written to many pages (used for 3D volume data) concentrated back into the first page.

So you claim these faulty images *exactly at zero degrees* are due to HAARP.
I say it is faulty hardware.

Which one sounds far more plausible?

As for other lines, I alluded to the lack of error correction on asynchronous serial data on these older systems.
It only takes one bit to be in error for a "telecom line error" to occur.
This is a distinct possibility for random lines of crap.

The more generally aligned lines are likely to be active point sources in the 5GHZ band eg WiFi nodes.
But ELF/VLF => 300Hz->30kHZ. Bah.



Edited by zathras (03/09/2011 08:01)

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#1009646 - 03/09/2011 09:15 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: zathras]
RV Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 31/12/2006
Posts: 985
Loc: Geranium, Home of Virga
Your wasting your time zathras. No matter how many explanations you give, they will always believe its related to HAARP. They are just fishing, trying to get you to make a mistake and use it to justify their Delusions.

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#1009649 - 03/09/2011 09:33 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: RV]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
RV, you are absolutely correct.

I should stop responding to the obvious trolling.

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#1009663 - 03/09/2011 10:25 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: RV]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6628
I agree with RV.
Save your self the trouble Zatharas.
The whole thing has just deteriorated into an attention seeking exercise.

The type of conspiratal mindset in evidence here just will not accept any explanations other than the one that confirms their delusions.

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#1009664 - 03/09/2011 10:31 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: zathras]
davidm Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/08/2011
Posts: 1555
Loc: Orange, NSW
Zathras, I appreciate the lengthy insights into the BoM world - 100% jealous of the gear you get to play with wink
_________________________
Wunderground | davidm.com.au

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#1009669 - 03/09/2011 10:51 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: davidm]
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
Yes, yes and yes.

And I'm the one being accused of not being open minded enough.
It would appear others need to take a good long hard look at themselves and stop immediately jumping to the HAARP/conspiracy theory angle.

And yes, not too loud about being fun to work on this radar gear. It has been a very satisfying career so far.

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#1009703 - 03/09/2011 14:24 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: zathras]
vpprt Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 21/12/2010
Posts: 231
Loc: Australia
This thread makes me want to cry. The level of scientific illiteracy demonstrated by Cliffhanger and Jax is amazing.

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#1009732 - 03/09/2011 16:26 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: vpprt]
Big_Pete Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 19/12/2004
Posts: 1955
Loc: Perth
I laugh now when I read this thread. Did the research on radar transmission frequencies and all of that myself. These radar happenings are occurring every day. Don't hear of severe weather events happening every day . . . poke

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#1009737 - 03/09/2011 16:53 Re: Confusing radar images, seeking explanation [Re: Big_Pete]
KevD Offline
Occasional Visitor

Registered: 23/09/2001
Posts: 5232
Loc: Bellingen NSW 2454
As per comments above I think this one has run its course - closed. Thanks to all who contributed - particular thanks to Zathras for the inside radar details...fascinating!

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